Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

"You realize...your posts are going to be readable by everyone after the game ends." -Gorny from the Gibbs and Franks thread. LOL!

Reading this, I didn't realize I was putting off such a scum vibe! Already in the two threads I've read, y'all pinged me as scum from the beginning. I was really surprised that I made it to the end like I did! Too bad I failed miserably though :p!

@Ankeli: My sister's name really is Keli, and I realize from your comments in your thread that you don't give a **** about that! That was just an OT thing I said that everyone read as SCUM speak somehow.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

I'm still utterly amazed that town won the game. 10 mafia, 1 serial killer, and one neutral that could have been easily swayed to work with the mafia. Nearly half of the players in the game had non-town agendas.

The town lynched scum seven days in a row with 100% success rate, and still went to lylo. Granted, much of that was due to modkills. Four people modkilled, so that's two extra mislynches granted to the town. Add that to the one mislynch we had. corax didn't die, but I'm counting him as full for easy math, so that's three. The town would have lost had he died from that lynch.

On top of the fact that Laarz the serial killer was semi-neutered and taken out fairly early in the game, and account for the double-kill ability mafia gained when it matters the most, and you realize the game was stacked heavily against the town. We had very little room for error, simply because of how many mafia there were.


While I'm on the subject, I want to say that I really did like the double-kill ability as a whole, and might adopt it (or a version of it) as a policy rule for any future games I'd run. Essentially, Gorny allowed the game to come out of MYLO and go straight into LYLO, skipping over a very boring no-lynch day and moving on to the main event. That was excellent modding, even if it wasn't originally planned and just thrown in at the last minute. Obviously this isn't applicable in all situations, but it's an idea worth considering. MYLO sucks. LYLO is fun. Anything to prevent the former is a good idea to me.

kestegs said:
I honestly think the only chance we had to win in the last day phase was for you to keep Sath alive, I think he was the only one to have enough suspicion on him to possibly draw a lynch, you could have dismissed anything he said about investigation as a lie or convenience.

I disagree. The one huge flaw of the mafia was keeping Sath alive for as long as you did, while focusing too much on corax. By the time you got around to killing corax, the damage was so severe that his death means nothing. Sath only got more powerful the longer you let him live.

By leaving corax alive, you could have hoped for an investigation on coju, then NK'd anyone not yet confirmed by him, leaving only people he's confirmed as town alive. In this scenario, you could discredit nearly all of corax's investigations and set everyone to square one. Town had gotten so compliant on waiting for power role results that they'd have a hard time recovering and doing actual scum hunting again. It would have been a long shot, but by that point, all you had left to you were long shots. Trying to insist that there was a mole day after day was not a smart strategy.

coju said:
@Ankeli: My sister's name really is Keli, and I realize from your comments in your thread that you don't give a **** about that! That was just an OT thing I said that everyone read as SCUM speak somehow.

The thing to take away from this is that everything you say will be analyzed and used against you. Even without the subject material, the fact that you were posting something OT instead of substantial makes it seem like you were just posting to post and laying low.

And really, only Leo is able to get away with OT stuff.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

"Coju is an excellent example of this in play." Either CG or Leo said this: Talking about lynch-locking scum. That was the best thing I read about myself in the threads:p!

I learned a lot reading through the threads. I really was hoping that I would be investigated to show myself as protown.

The last night I knew I had to get rid of Sath (Even though I thought he would investigate me and me still read town. For some reason I thought he had that power. Although, he had pinged me so many times it was getting unreal) and either Uraj or Flip. I had more 'dirt' on Uraj by his posts 1352 or 1398 by not naming all the anti-town/mafia players. He only named actual mafia players in one of those posts, although he said in 1310 that all anti-town/mafia were indeed mafia.

I didn't know whether or not I should have switched my vote from Fey to Flip at the end there(Earlier). I read Fey's post after he read it, and wasn't quite so sure if I should leave everything in his hands. I was really hoping that Flip would go with his thoughts that Fey was faking Mrs. Mallard and vote her. But, he voted me and I knew it was over with then.

I really am surprised that I made it to the end, especially after reading the threads. Asrrin would have been a better mafia player in the end, but I would not have learned as much as I did in the long run. Asrrin's auto-vote for Mal though, I like that. I love how we here in the forums will vote for people just for what they did previous games. Awesome how people many miles away, can acquire such friendships/enemyships on a game that is 10+ years old. This is what really makes me love the SPF/D2 incgamers community in general!

@CG: I realize that now. Everything one says is scrutinized to the T. You could say you took a massive crap three years ago and you end up being the town cop. Crazy.

Y'all will see me in the mafia games if I make the sign-ups! This had been fun, real fun. Long, boring at times, but fun.

@drixx: I look forward to seeing you in other games. I won't blackball you one bit! You really did surprise me with your actions, and you made it so easy for us scum to ping you and turn all attention away from us, as you read in our thread in the beginning!

GG everyone! Had fun!
 
I agree that sath lived too long, but at the last night it probably didn't matter anyway.

I agree with asrrin when he said that after gory was lynched I lost hope. I didn't see much we could do after that point, even with massive mod kills we were still never really that close.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Grats to the town. I'll freely admit I gave up playing a serious game once Goryani got lynched. We were extremely close to a lylo situation then due to getting rid of Ryleh's double vote and having Goryani's vote steal, but Mal bussed Goryani and got him locked. Mal then proceeded to act scummy and got himself lynched. It really disheartened me. That, and I legitimately got caught up in video games and atronomy, contributed to my lurking and lack of critical posts. I was surprised it took some people as long as it did to realize I was scum after Goryani, but pleased that I had so many people convinced I Was pro-town prior to that.

Was this referring to Gory or me?

I'm still utterly amazed that town won the game. 10 mafia, 1 serial killer, and one neutral that could have been easily swayed to work with the mafia. Nearly half of the players in the game had non-town agendas.

I was hoping for an interesting role and I sure got it. Also, Sath, you made the right call for several wrong reasons. Also sorry for the constant badgering on what I could do Gorny, but I was trying to figure out what on earth I could do in the three different threads I was in.

Anyways, here is the complete truth as I see it about my role: I started out working with Tobais to find the P2P, feeding him mafia names so that he would not investigate them (sorry to Mal and zemaj for throwing you under the bus. Your play was the most scummy to me and so I wanted to make Noamarr trust my calls.) (Also I was informed by Gorny I should not have done this so sorry for that bad call). I was found to be the mole in the mafia, bluffed them into not killing me, but they instead got Noamarr that night. This actually changed my win condition from neutral to mafia. So when Sath called me out as anti-town, I was, but I was full mafia and not cult as he thought. I also was post restricting - I restricted mal so that I could clear both my name and his the next day. Turns out my post restriction was a bomb that blew him up, and as revenge he threw me under the bus on the lynch. This seems to be the place where the mafia really fell apart, so sorry if I accidentally contributed to that.

Anyways, the short version is thanks for a fun role and fun game Gorny!


 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Thanks for hosting Gorny. I had fun trying to piece together everything even though I got disheartened after doing so.

I think this game deserves nomination for a flawless lynching performance by the town: only anti-town were lynched.

Some questions/comments:
What was the deal with korial knowing Drixx's role? I don't see that mentioned in Ducky's role PM.

Was Abby a coroner?

Did I have a hidden vote steal ability? Did anyone? You're probably tired of my incessant vote tally confirmation requests, but with so many hidden abilities and so many voting irregularities, the question keeps coming up.

I still don't understand McGee's N1 result from Tobias. Tobias shouldn't have targeted two people. Speaking of McGee, the flavor given to him upon some tracks/watches was uber. I think McGee was a role cop on several nights. I'm not sure of the rhyme or reason for the flavor/role hints, but it appears to have resulted while targeting non-mafia roles with night actions (though Mrs. Mallard doesn't fit).

@boogyman - Nice baiting with the "I'm questioning my sanity regarding Goryani's N1 result" line. If I had been hitman, it would have drawn a NK attempt from me. A NK protected paranoid gun owner that only kills mafia or SK is quite the role. I could tell something was going on, but I thought flubbucket and Feysal were behind that something and not you.

In a 26 person game, only 10 could have been killed by the mafia N1. A third of mafia's target pool would have survived being killed even without a doc or bodyguard. Frankly, I'm amazed mafia managed to night kill as many as we did.

It would have taken a minimum of 7 nights to NK the Gibbs/DiNozzo/McGee/Ziva mason group. None could be killed by Cobb. For those that keep asking: "Why didn't you kill Soandso earlier?" This is why. We didn't know who had all these protections or how long they lasted, we just knew they existed (Gorny told us so). Plus, we spent a couple of nights dealing with the mole issue.

Speaking on behalf of mafia players everywhere: so many players having so many NK protections is brutal. Utterly demoralizing. At best mafia need extra NK attempts to compensate (three modkills, two of which have NK protection, equated to three extra night kills). At worst, mafia need to know details such as if one shot protection was used up or if protection still exists.

Again, I'm amazed Valhauros did such a good job choosing night targets. Kudos to you sir. I'm glad I didn't give you any more of my "advice." I would have said to target Leo because Leo's role was so important that it wasn't mod killed.

Overall game balance: I'm not discounting the power of 9 mafia, 1 mafia recruit, and a SK. Successful mafia kills N1 and N3 in addition to Cobb successfully killing a townie or two in addition to a successful townie lynch one of the first three days would have resulted in a very different game. In fact, the game might have been over with by the fourth night and the town wondering what the hell happened. However, the odds of that happening is extremely low. There were only 2 non-mafia players Cobb could have killed outright and two more with a 50% and 25% chance of success. Furthermore, out of 10 possible night-killable targets, mafia would have to choose three in the first three nights. Then the townie lynch target had to be one of about 10 players.

I wouldn't have been very happy with the Cobb role. I think Cobb, if having so many restrictive NK targets, should have been given a different win condition. I would have liked to see Cobb with a thematic list of targets to eliminate. If those players die before Cobb dies, then Cobb wins.

@Gwaihir - That period was just a blur of bad mojo, but I think you are correct. Mal bussed you while coju bussed me. I think the day you were lynched was the final straw. One, you were revealed as neutral and not anti-town. That gave big bonus cred to Rlyeh. Two, the surprise post restriction bomb took out Malevolent, making you appear less mafia and more neutral, which further gave Rlyeh some cred. Mafia went from requiring two mislynches to needing three or more (there weren't that many non-masons, non doc, non-mod confirmed Abby roles left). After that day, the mole scenario or stalling for a no-lynch were the only paths to a mafia win.

Speaking of post restriction bomb: turns out mafia had an extra kill power after all. We just didn't know about it.

To my fellow mafia: I hope you all had fun. There were several mistakes attributable to inexperience that made things difficult. I think half the mafia was fingered as scummy on D1 alone. Live (or not!) and learn I guess. We'll get them next time.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Can someone explain Feysal's logic about last day LYLO situations to me? With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch and 3 to lock.

A quick vote for info seems to be the best play to me. Vote for someone then watch the third person's reaction to get insight. Perhaps unvote then vote the other and observe again.

If the third person does a quick unvote/vote to follow you, they are probably scum. Since you can count on the player you voted for to avoid self voting, then no lock occurs, so no permanent harm done.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

i thought we were hosed when we had 2 modkilled townies. well done guys
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

I still don't understand McGee's N1 result from Tobias. Tobias shouldn't have targeted two people. Speaking of McGee, the flavor given to him upon some tracks/watches was uber. I think McGee was a role cop on several nights. I'm not sure of the rhyme or reason for the flavor/role hints, but it appears to have resulted while targeting non-mafia roles with night actions (though Mrs. Mallard doesn't fit).

My flavour changed throughout the game. When I tracked Noammr and I saw him doing a background check on Ryleh and call up Gwaihir. That had elements of a role cop indeed. But that was the only night. Later results only had visit (target someone in the thread) and call logs (night talk) But that changed a night later aswell with only getting results of who he targeted and no flavour. Except for Feysal, but that flavour wasn't really needed because he didn't went anywhere anyway.

Considering me and Corax were the only investigative roles and Corax had a not guilty on two mafia members, I really don't think you guys can complain about my role.

It basically was 11 anti-town against 14 town with only 2 investigative powers. We had to lynch anti-town every day (which we did, yay!) to win.

This town deserved the best town award.


 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

@Sathoris - The single best use of an investigator is to identify townies, thereby finding possible mafia that try to get the confirmed townie lynched. Your abilities, while powerful, weren't as powerful as the number of mod confirmed townies. Without knowing as many townie players as you did, and eliminating them from suspicion, you wouldn't have targeted as many mafia as you did. Same with corax. Mason groups and mod confirmed townies are VERY non-linear.

What were the flavor bits you received? One thing I noticed is that each piece of flavor could let you or one of your mason team detect a truthful or fake claim in each person you received flavor on (Tobias, Kort, Mrs Mallard). The flavor involving Kort's night talk being mafia or cult was the result of a misinterpretation and very fortuitous for the tow. I believe Gorny was telling the masons that the mason team wouldn't receive any more mason members. Gwaihir wasn't truthful about his targets, (I told you they could detect the lie!) but otherwise his claim should have held up if not for the misinterpretation. The discrepancy of not detecting kestegs targeting anyone is out of place. Wouldn't that be ironic. A godfather is caught because a power role couldn't get any reading.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Corax's investigations weren't 100% because he got Mal as town and Kestegs as town. Besides my investigative power wasn't that of a cop. Noammr was neutral and I thought him to be anti-town. If I targeted any one of you mafia that wasn't the hitman I would not have known anything. The only people I knew to be town were my mason buddies and I didn't found that out with my ability. And even then the mole story springs to mind.

Corax only ID'd Flubb and Caluin as town and mistakenly ID'd Kestegs and Malov as town. He only got a guilty on Noodle. I didn't confirm anyone as townie except later in the game Feysal. I targeted anti-town because of their play.

Deleted most of the PMs, but he first had an internet background check from Noammr and phone calls made. Gwaihir's flavour had him making more calls than a normal person would, something like that. Which wasn't misinterpretation, Gwaihir did talk to several people and to more people than a townie should. I only thought of Noammr and then Ryleh being recruited so I went for a cult. I got the anti-town right, doesn't matter what kind of anti-town. Also Gorny told us we were the only masons, which in the end was true. After that I got no flavour at all other than Mrs. Mallard's.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Corax detected correctly in my book. A few of us Mafianas had "Pro-Town reads"

Noodle flipping anti-town, when he wasn't part of our mafia team, through me for a loop, and really made me think there was another faction. Didn't realize that there were stand-alone people besides SKs.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Can someone explain Feysal's logic about last day LYLO situations to me? With 3 alive it takes 2 to lynch and 3 to lock.

On most other forums, like mafiascum.net and SA, the lock happens as soon as there is majority. That's why I got momentarily confused in the dead thread, since the lock would've happened at 2 votes. I'm assuming Feysal was applying mafiascum.net rules to this game accidentally.



 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Yes Goryani, I had no chance to win, something I was sure of after the second try to kill someone. I asked Gorny if I was the fluffy pillow killer;) and he said i would have to wait to find out. When I did kill Ankeli (Franks) I figured I could only kill people that I had killed in the show, so there was no more thinking on my part, was just going for havoc:)
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

To my fellow mafia: I hope you all had fun. There were several mistakes attributable to inexperience that made things difficult. I think half the mafia was fingered as scummy on D1 alone. Live (or not!) and learn I guess. We'll get them next time.

Yeah, it was fun for sure!

My flavour changed throughout the game. When I tracked Noammr and I saw him doing a background check on Ryleh and call up Gwaihir. That had elements of a role cop indeed. But that was the only night. Later results only had visit (target someone in the thread) and call logs (night talk) But that changed a night later aswell with only getting results of who he targeted and no flavour. Except for Feysal, but that flavour wasn't really needed because he didn't went anywhere anyway.

Yeah, that was wierd, did Gorny actually tell you you were in the only mason group? My PM read "two man mason group with Tobias", so that was super confusing. Although after that night the mason group I was in was dead, so that might have been part of it.

Deleted most of the PMs, but he first had an internet background check from Noammr and phone calls made. Gwaihir's flavour had him making more calls than a normal person would, something like that. Which wasn't misinterpretation, Gwaihir did talk to several people and to more people than a townie should. I only thought of Noammr and then Ryleh being recruited so I went for a cult. I got the anti-town right, doesn't matter what kind of anti-town. Also Gorny told us we were the only masons, which in the end was true. After that I got no flavour at all other than Mrs. Mallard's.

Yeah, you did get the anti-town right, that was funny. Although you would have gotten the exact same reading the night before, and I was playing protown at that point.

Oh, Gorny, what post restrictions could I have all given out? It seemed like they just got worse and worse. can you say where it would have been heading next?

I kinda got caught in my huge web of lies that I had been spinning in three different threads. Should have made my claim to the town even more truthful - given Noamarrs true role of SK finder and mine as post restrictor, still trying to find Laarz. And I should have been able to clear my name better than I did, especially as my name was confirmed by Laarz, except that Mal came out and didn't seem post restricted. I was super confused by that part.


 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Yes Goryani, I had no chance to win, something I was sure of after the second try to kill someone. I asked Gorny if I was the fluffy pillow killer;) and he said i would have to wait to find out. When I did kill Ankeli (Franks) I figured I could only kill people that I had killed in the show, so there was no more thinking on my part, was just going for havoc:)

Which you were quite effective at. And you outlived the mason group chasing you (after the death on Noamarr, I became mafia), so seems like you won in that regard.


 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Oh, forgot to note I got a fake role claim for the mafia group.

Use this as your role PM to post to the mafia:

You are Kyle Boon, mafia goon.
http://ncis.wikia.com/wiki/Kyle_Boone

You are the post restrictor. You may target one person per night and that person will end up with a random post restriction the next day.

Your win condition is to win along with the mafia.


BEST NAME EVER

Boon, mafia goon. That was awesome. I laughed about that name every time I read it.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Deleted most of the PMs, but he first had an internet background check from Noammr and phone calls made. Gwaihir's flavour had him making more calls than a normal person would, something like that. Which wasn't misinterpretation, Gwaihir did talk to several people and to more people than a townie should. I only thought of Noammr and then Ryleh being recruited so I went for a cult. I got the anti-town right, doesn't matter what kind of anti-town. Also Gorny told us we were the only masons, which in the end was true. After that I got no flavour at all other than Mrs. Mallard's.

Night 0 you obtained role cop information. You were told of Noammr's night talking and investigation of Rlyeh. If Noammr was still alive on mass claim day, any truthful claim he made could be corroborated against the info you obtained. It would have matched.

Night 1 you were blocked, though I'd be curious to know what result you would have obtained from me. Detect night talking since I wasn't a godfather? Detect nothing since the watcher was used? Detect my use of vote block?

Night 2 has no listing, but I think that is a result of sometimes starting from N0 sometimes starting from N1.

Night 3 you watched/tracked someone without a night action, so no flavor. I think that night you were recruited into the mason group while targeting one of the masons. Simply being recruited told you so much more information than flavor could have provided.

Night 4 you also obtained role cop information as Gwaihir was a night talker. Not only was Gwaihir a night talker, but he was a night talker with multiple groups (mafia and FBI/CIA). I'm guessing that was the cause of the more phone calls than normal flavor. If mafia hadn't already found the mole, your comments would have identified him for us. You also said you knew who Gwaihir targeted, as it was different than the player Gwaihir said he targeted. I'm not sure what flavor was associated with it, but I doubt it matched the flavor of Noammr the investigator. If Gwaihir told the truth of each night's targets and if Malevolent had a post restriction that actually looked like a post restriction, then the case against Gwaihir would have been much tougher to make.

Looking over the notes, it says you received info that Gwaihir targeted both Noammr and Rlyeh on N4. I think N1 with Noammr was figured out, but this night seems off kilter as well.

Incidentally, the misinterpretation comment was referring to what Gorny told you in post 18 of the Navy Yard thread: "You are the only four masons, so work with it as best you can." That comment was, I'm guessing, the source of the your idea that your mason group was the only mason group, hence your suspicion of Noammr and Gwaihir. Gorny told us similar info the next night, though he phrased it differently (Last Man Standing #544): "The mason group won't get any bigger. It was meant to be limited."

Night 5 you did the watcher thing and not the tracker thing. You also targeted a mason partner so not much flavor is needed. The same night, you learned corax obtained a pro-town on Caluin Graye. That might not have meant much with multiple godfathers, but you knew CG visited corax. You knew CG wasn't the mafia roleblocker. A number of possibilities exist, such as pro-town doc or anti-town mafia framer type role. However, again, upon a role claim from CG, you could have determined if his claim was a lie or not.

Night 6 you tracked coju, who didn't have a night action but was also one of the godfathers.

Night 7 you tracked kestegs and got a result that kestegs didn't make any night action. However, the same night kestegs roleblocked flubbucket. kestegs was one of the godfathers, so I wonder if godfather ability meant you couldn't obtain info about kestegs' night actions. Hence the irony comment.

Night 8 you tracked the hitman. Not much other flavor is necessary.

Night 9 you tracked mafia with no night action. At this point, we can deduce that you couldn't track all night talk. Apparently, you could only track the night talking of the second mason group.

Night 10 you tracked Feysal and obtained additional flavor that Feysal was indeed Mrs. Mallard and not a crazy fake claim like Asrrin's (relatives of main characters).

Each night you obtained flavor, the flavor you obtained gave you information with which to ascertain the truthfulness of someone's claim. I don't know what else to call that ability other than a role cop. It didn't work 100% of the time, but when it worked, it really really worked. Net effect: your role combined with mason group allowed you to obtain role information on 6 out of 9 townies with a night action and one other townie without a night action.



 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

I only had flavour on Noammr (neutral) and Feysal (pro-town). I only learned of Feysal's pro-town status from my role. Being part of a mason group has nothing to do with the role I was given. Besides half the mason group got modkilled.

You can't use examples of me being a rolecop and use Corax' info to do so. When I tracked CG I only saw he visited Corax, no flavour. Just cause I know Corax got a pro-town doesn't mean my action confirmed him, Corax's did.

If I tracked mafia I would learn nothing except if they were the hitman. If I tracked a godfather I learned nothing. It's only fair I get some flavour for the townies.

You can't seriously be implying that my role was overpowered in a game where we needed a 100% lynch record to win the game. Truth is, scum played bad and got caught. Live with it.

Oh and, with 10 anti-town and 14 pro-town more confirmed townies means there's more chance for the mafia to get caught, that's why you got 10 freaking scum.
 
Re: Witch Hunt: The NCIS Haloween Forum Mafia Thread

Thats for hosting Gorny! Didnt get to fully enjoy this one, but congrats on our town for pulling it off!
 
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