[Tournament idea][Interest & Review][V2.2] March of the Doomed

For simulations, I would need three common "builds" for each class.

For example for Paladin I will evaluate using:
Hammerdin
Fanazealer
Avenger

With the rolls, the evaluation will be:
> the possibility of an endgame build using a respec (and Royal Seals if needed) after Diablo Hell
> the possibility of setting up for each build dynamically, with clevels of reference after each act (below a reference to be corrected based upon my own runs, don't hesitate to have a proposal if reference by then it will save some time!), using Royal Seals when/if needed

Code:
Act Clvl at completion
No1 19
No2 24
No3 28
No4 31
No5 40

NM1 44
NM2 48
NM3 53
NM4 57
NM5 63

He1 68
He2 72
He3 75
He4 78

Please share other aspects that could be interesting, the builds you'd like to see evaluated, and/or act level milestones!

@Dazliare are you still interested in participating to this task? Anyone else?
 
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It is possible with the birth damnation to hit a level 1 skill and tank a whole tree pretty much. I am personally against people rolling themselves, and understand that with this tournament comes a bit of waiting.

Agree on both. I usually found it quite fun to be rolled by someone else, building up tension (and trashtalk ;-)

@Babyhell
Your levels are too low for full clears p8. it is usually like this:
Normal (/p8): 20-28-32-35-49
Nightmare (/p8): 52-60-63-67-75
Hell (/p3): 79-83-84-85-87


I already did the rolls for a Zealot:
My idea for a Paladin would be:

Act 1, Level 1-20 (20 skill points total)
Combat Skills: 1 pt each in Smite, Holy Bolt, Sacrifice, Charge, BH, Vengeance, Zeal
Offensive Auras: 1 pt each in Might, Thorns, Holy Fire, Blessed Aim, Holy Freeze, Concentrate
That leaves 7 skill points either for later use or to activate all 4 defensive auras to protect the trees from an early lock (Prayer, Dfiance, Cleansing, Vigor) and to have the possibility to pump syerngies later on (e.g. Vigor for BH), even if Prayer gets the damnation hammer from Andy. So 3 skill points left.
Then Andariels Damnation *drumroll* 8 -> Holy Fire (well, glad we put one point in there, but not more than one point!)

Act 2, Level 20-28 (29 skill points total, 17 already used)
Defensive Auras: none unless you need Redemption for mana refills
Offensive Auras: 1 in Holy Shock and Sanctuary as prereqs
Combat Skills: 1 in Conversion as a prereq if you really intend to keep FoH open as a skill :)
That leaves 9 points to distribute among skills you intend to use. No here it gets interesting: you will get a lv 1-12 skill banned after Duriel. So it is probably wise to put those points into a level 18, 24 or 30 skill (only 3 points in level 30 skill possible because of your clvl) for Act III. So my choice would be to place all remaining points into Holy Freze (skill level 10).
Then Duriel's Damnation: 15 -> Charge (well, glad we put a point as a preq there for HS!)

Act 3, level 28-32 (33 skill points total, 29 already used)
Pump HF some more (skill level 14) or maybe invest a point in Holy Shield, too.
Mephisto's Damnation: 8 -> Sanctuary

Act 4, level 32-35 (38 skill points total, 33 already used)
pump HF some more to make it more viable, hope for Diablo to hit another skill than HF.
Diablo's Damnation: 10 -> Conviction (well, glad we didn't put a point there!)

Act 5, level 35 to 49 (52 skill points total, 38 already used)
now we're doing business! A viable route could be:
a) don't use the Baal rule and see what skill gets banned (HF is off limits for Baal anyways). Instead, invest all points in Resist Cold as a synergy for HF because it is the next skill that could get locked from Andariel
b) use the Baal rule and protect Holy Shock to make a Teslafroster
c) use the Baal rune and protect Holy Shield

As far as I understood the rules, the skills you protect with the Baal rule can still be damned later, right? That's why I would choose option a)
Baal's damnation: 1 -> Vigor (lucky roll!)

Then on to the Cow King: Finally protect one skill forever! Choose Holy Freeze, be good to go Froster in NM.


Act I NM: level 49-52 (56 skill points total, 52 used)
pump resist cold some more (18 points now)
Andariel's damnation: 12 -> Smite

Act II NM: level 52-60 (65 skill points total, 56 used)
max cold resist and either HF for more firepower or start pumping your second skill of choice. I'd suggest the first option. that leaves 5 skill points.
Duriel's damnation: 8 -> already taken -> 4 -> Resist Cold (hah! eat this! already at 20 and a passive!)

Act III NM: level 60-63 (68 skill points total, 60 used)
pump Zeal to at least level 4 (5 swings). leaves you with 5 skill points for Act IV.
Mephisto's damnation: 6 -> HF "can't touch this" -> 4 -> Salvation. Too bad, maybe we should have spent the leftover points there as a synergy for HF and maybe Holy Shock

Act IV NM: level 63-67 (74 skill points total, 63 used)
either commit to a second offensive aura or pump Zeal or save the points until you know more. I'd say I save them.
Diablo's damnation: 7 -> Holy Shock. Dang. I wanted that to be my backup. Glad I didn't put points into it. Now I will probably take Fanaticism as my backup for CIs.

Act V NM: level 67-75 (82 skill points total, 63 used)
put all points into Fanaticism
some ideas:
a) use the Baal rule to protect Fana until Act III Hell (risky! What if Mephisto or Baal damn Fana?) and use the Seal on Zeal (hah! pun not intended)
b) don't use the Baal rule and protect Fana with the Zeal. Worst case would be that either Andy or Duriel damn Zeal
I'd go for b)
Baal's damnation: 2 (Meditation) lucky roll!

Act I Hell: level 75-79 (87 skill points total, 82 used)
max Fana (1 pt), then maybe put points into sacrifice for the Zeal synergy or save the points. Or Holy Shield. I'd put them in Sacrifice and cross my fingers that neither Zeal nor Sacrifice get hit or in Holy Shield, depending on my gear.
Andariel's damnation: 3 -> Defiance

Act II Hell: level 79-83 (at p3. Will be somewhat lower for p1) (92 skill points total, 87 used)
either Holy Shield, Zeal or Sacrifice
Duriel's damnation: 9 -> Thorns

Act III Hell:
From now on we won't gain that much level (maybe one each in Act III, IV and V)
Mephisto's damnation: 4-1-7 (all damned already) -3 -> Redemption

Act IV Hell:
Diablo's Damnation: 1 -> Vengeance

As you can see, this can work (some early lucky rolls).

My best bet would be to put points at the end of normal/beginning of NM in a synergy skill to the skill you protect with the cow King's seal, thus negating bad effects from Andy's and Duriel's damnation. I am skeptical about the Baal rule, because it only protetcs the skil for the next 2 acts, so I would only consider it in NM, never in Normal.

It would have been good to place some synergy points in Salvation (maybe) but overall I liked how the character turned out.

I think it is fun that you can take the safe approach (like me, slower gameplay, less firepower) and have a better build in the endgame or go risk something and put points early in skills you use and cross your fingers they don't get damned. Note that i didn't use a single respec, so the second way (take risks) might actually be the better one, because you still can adapt if your main skill gets damned.

Sorry for the long post.

TL;DR:
Great tournament idea, sounds like fun for everyone (planner and hotheads).
 
Is it a bit weird to be hyped by @Grisu ’s simulated gameplay of a pala? 😆
Only question remaining, when do we start and how do I explain the need for more D2R time to the partner? 😂
 
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@D4di56lu3 soon enough...I bet the simulations will validate the possibilities. I guess it can start after tomorrow's reviews.

I am just hesitating on one last point, and count on the testing for some answer, on allowing continuation on respec when X points have been put in a lvl 1-12 skill (thinking about 3, so it costs 2 skill points to allow the continuation of the tree branch).
=> you have a damnation on Sacrifice and Zeal for example, and not on Vengeance. When doing a respec, you could put 3 points in Sacrifice, 3 in Zeal to get access to your Vengeance skill.

Rules have been updated with the removal of the birth damnation (v2.2).
 
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It takes so much time to make the rolls and find skills... below the Amazon rolls (rolled as described here, i.e. rolling amongst available skills):
Roll ARoll BRoll C
No skills 1-12
11​
4​
13​
ImpaleMagic ArrowSlow Missiles
7​
5​
6​
Poison javelinPower StrikePower Strike
skills 18-30
15​
15​
8​
Freezing ArrowFreezing arrowEvade
10​
9​
8​
Immolation arrowStrafeStrafe
skills 24-30
8​
1​
2​
PierceFendDecoy
NM skills 1-12
8​
6​
8​
Cold ArrowDodgeCold Arrow
8​
1​
6​
Multiple ShotJabPoison Javelin
skills 18-30
6​
12​
10​
FendPierceValkyrie
9​
5​
9​
Lightning StrikeGuided arrowLightning Fury
skills 24-30
2​
4​
4​
EvadeLightning StrikePierce
He skills 1-12
2​
2​
7​
Inner SightCritical StrikeMultiple Shot
9​
9​
9​
Slow MissilesAvoidAvoid
skills 18-30
8​
4​
7​
Lightning FuryIce arrowImmolation arrow
6​
2​
8​
DecoyPlague javelinFreezing arrow

Roll A
Valkyrie is a hard no on a respec, and so is Decoy.
Freezing arrow has vanished, Immolation arrow too, and so is Strafe, however for each the two royal seals can unlock access.
Charged Strike and Plague Javelin are accessible at the cost of a Royal Seal, and the second is needed to free Lightning Fury.

On the dynamic (based upon @Grisu's leveling milestones, and no respec done...that will be complicated enough!):
Magezon build (FA, IA, Valkyrie)
You are doomed! Mephisto and Diablo took care of your hopes by locking Freezing arrow and Immolation Arrow - not even talking about Baal breaking the knees for good by hitting Pierce... but as a passive it is less of an issue.

However, by opening early on it is still workable, as Andariel and Duriel are not a threat to the build:
SP=Skill Point(s)

Normal
- Act 1 (+20SP) skill points can go in opening skills
> Cold Arrow, Ice Arrow, Fire Arrow, Magic arrow, Multiple shot, Exploding arrow
> Critical strike, Penetrate, and the four first prerequisites of Valkyrie
12 points spent out of 20. The remaining 8 points can be shared between the two damage synergies of the targeted arrow skills, i.e. Cold (lvl 7) and Exploding Arrow (lvl 3). On top of that, Exploding arrow is not threatened by Andariel, whereas Cold arrow is not threatened by the Prime evils, so the risk is somehow managed.
- Act 2 (+9SP) sees the unlocking of Immolation arrow, and the possibility to put points in the two last Valkyrie prerequisites. Keep on pumping the synergies in a balanced way (Cold lvl 8 and Exploding Arrow lvl 8), and use either of the ones... the journey will be tough early as it seems.
- Act 3 (+4SP) allows a point in each of the lvl 30 skills - Valkyrie, Pierce, Freezing Arrow. Let's put the last in Valkyrie as a non-synergized skill.
- Act 4 (+5SP) starts with the heart touched... Mephisto went to the throat with Freezing Arrow! So it is keeping to push the other two (Valkyrie lvl 4 and Immolation Arrow lvl 4)
- Act 5 (+14SP)... well... hence the name of the game, right? Diablo hit Immolation arrow, and it's time to maybe think about a respec. No way in such a journey that Baal's damnation isn't chosen to be the item! Valkyrie will have to be strong enough, so it's a lvl 17 Valkyrie targeted, and one point put in Cold arrow (lvl 9) as synergy (see reason below - Cow king).
As stated, Baal's damnation will be a non-weapon item. Let's say it hits a ring.
Time to kill the Cow King, and secure the Royal Seal in order to free one arrow, most probably Freezing Arrow.

Nightmare
Before risking anything on lvl 30 skills, we can plan on +16SP, and can pretty safely say that a lvl 17 Valkyrie is capable enough of the duty. However, we are stuck with one skill, so we don't really have the choice to keep the Royal Seal in order to counter a Valkyrie damnation in NM...let's pump synergies as much as possible for now.
- Act 1 (+4SP) let's share again between Cold (lvl 11) and Exploding Arrow (lvl 10)
- Act 2 (+9SP) Andy Andy Andy... now it's Cold arrow. Seriously, this journey is tough for the player's mind. Points would go into Exploding Arrow for the main part (lvl 15) and Pierce (lvl 5). From now on, Exploding arrow is high enough as a synergy, points have to be kept for main damage skills at some point
- Act 3 (+3SP) Pierce up to lvl 7, and one SP saved for main damage skills
- Act 4 (+6SP) Saved here again...7 SP saved total. Would a lvl 11 synergized Immolation arrow with some pierce replace efficiently the Valkyrie? Probably not...but it could do wonders in frozen areas of Act 5. Let's wait after Diablo's damnation - this time it's a miss big D!
- Act 5 (+8SP) let's take some fire damage for the remaining of Nightmare, and get it easy as possible to unlock the second seal. Immolation arrow is kept at lvl 11, and the 8SP of the act are kept for the second Royal Seal on Freezing Arrow (lvl 9).
Here again, you just try to save you Valkyrie at least enough time to have main skills high enough.
Baal's item damnation hits the gloves. See you IAS!

Hell
The last difficulty is started with:
> lvl 17 Valkyrie
> lvl 11 Immolation Arrow synergized with lvl 15 Exploding Arrow
> lvl 9 Freezing Arrow synergized with lvl 11 Cold Arrow
The goal is just to pump the two main damage arrow skills while Valkyrie is still available, 20SP needed.
- Act 1 (+5SP) FA lvl 14
- Act 2 (+5SP) FA lvl 19
- Act 3 (+1SP) FA lvl 20
- Act 4 (+3SP) Immolation Arrow lvl 14
- Act 5 remaining points in Immolation arrow, or Valkyrie as we know she is safe at this point.
LF/CS build
LF, CS, any one synergy, Valkyrie

Normal
Act 1 (+20SP) Jab, poison javelin, Power Strike, Lightning bolt, Plague Javelin, Charged Strike, Critical Strike, Penetrate, and the four first Valkyrie prerequisites...12 SP spent, let's bring Charged Strike to 3, and put 6 points in Lightning bolt or Power Strike...say Power Strike lvl 7 to be easy on throwing quantities.
Act 2 (+9SP) Decoy, Evade, then bring Power Strike to 10, and wait for Duriel damnation. Safe, now we can pump Power Strike safely for the remaining of the difficulty (ends lvl 14)
Act 3 (+4SP) Valkyrie, Lightning fury, Pierce to 2
Act 4 (+5SP) Pierce to 7, keep relying on Power Strike
Act 5 (+14SP) Power Strike takes advantage of LF & CS.. so why not pumping both? Charged Strike to 10, Lightning fury to 8.
Nothing to fear at this point, but play it safely and take an item damnation.

Nightmare
Act 1 (+4SP) The secured Royal Seal allows the choice in the main skill...pump LF (lvl 12), best choice! And drink your pots :p
Act 2 (+9SP) Max LF, time to build up Valkyrie lvl 2
Act 3 (+3SP) Valkyrie 5
Act 4 (+6SP) Valkyrie 11
Act 5 (+8SP) Valkyrie 17, great.
Double Royal Seal will secure Hell, so take the skill damnation...Evade is a free pass.

Hell
Act 1 (+5SP) Charged Strike to be maxed now... lvl 15
Act 2 (+5SP) Charged Strike lvl 20. Two royal seals, two 18+ damnations remaining...great
Act 3 (+1SP) Valkyrie 18, use Royal seal on LF damnation.
Act 4 (+3SP) Valkyrie 20, remaining SP in whatever.
Act 5 (+1SP) Whatever...

Easy run here again!
Strafe build
Strafe, Valkyrie, Magic Arrow, Pierce/Critical strike/Penetrate

Normal
Act 1 (+20SP) it will be the time to secure the maximum of skills. The four first prerequisites of Valkyrie, Critical strike and Penetrate will get their one point in passive tree, and so will have Magic arrow, Cold arrow, and the two other Strafe prereqs that are Multiple shot and Guided arrow, for a total of 10 points spent. From there, there's a tough choice, as there's no way to ensure a lvl 18 useful damage skill for this builds, therefore a working on passive could be interesting, let's work on Penetrate (lvl 3) and Critical Strike (lvl 7), keeping two points for after Duriel, hoping for Magic Arrow not to be hit and be able to use it until NM, or being ready for a secondary skill switch.
Act 2 (+9SP) get the lvl 24 skills, being strafe, Decoy and the other Valkyrie prerequisite. If too hard, gamble could be taken on dumping things into MA, or maybe one or no point in Jab, using a crafted savage polearm for the act. Say 0, meaning that 8 points are saved.
Act 3 (+4SP) here we go, lvl 1-12 skills are safe, so Magic Arrow can now be pumped, and act is ended with MA lvl 10, two points in pierce and one in Valkyrie.
Act 4 (+5SP) secure Pierce at 5, and keep pumping MA to lvl 12.
Act 5 (+14SP) everything is running smoothly. Let's bring MA to 15 and that's it, keeping confidently 11 points for after Baal damnation. Pierce is hit...great that was somehow secured earlier, so be it. Strafe can now be pumped to lvl 12, Cow King gives the seal, great.

Nightmare
Act 1 (+4SP) pump Strafe, that's it...lvl 16.
Act 2 (+9SP) max Strafe to lvl 20, and then the 5 others in Penetrate to lvl 8
Act 3 (+3SP) Penetrate lvl 10, then Valkyrie lvl 2
Act 4 (+6SP) Valkyrie lvl 8
Act 5 (+8SP) Valkyrie lvl 16

Hell
Act 1 (+5SP) Valkyrie 20, Decoy to have her stronger or some more Critical Strike... say Decoy lvl 2
Act 2 (+5SP) Decoy 7
Act 3 (+1SP) Decoy 8
Act 4 (+3SP) Decoy 10, Critical Strike 8
Act 5 (+1SP) Critical Strike 9

Wow...apart from the fear of the loss early, this roll allows this build easy!

Roll B
Use royal seals on dodge, avoid, and you are allowed to follow a maxed Valkyrie, using an amplified damage charge wand.
Two seals are needed to make any build... most probably a synergized Charged Strike, or Freezing arrow without Pierce.

On the dynamic, a magezon build is viable, so will be LF/CS, and Strafe too if the Valkyrie saves the day for Act 5.

Roll C
Double no on Freezing arrow, double no on immolation arrow, double no on Charged strike, double no on Strafe, triple no on lightning fury... this one hurts big time!
Double no on decoy, not even counting for Valkyrie...
Penetrate is available, yeah...maybe a Multiple shot/Magic arrow build with Pierce, using the two Royal seals? Or a Magic Arrow/Charged strike one using the seals on the damned prereqs, that would unlock enough synergies to be significant.

On the dynamic, LF/CS is doable, magezon too but it is mandatory to save the seals for late game to counter the two last damnations. Strafe is using a seal but definitely viable.

Other classes
/!\ If anyone feels about analyzing one roll/builds for any other class (would take too much time to make it a full review...), it would be greatly appreciated! /!\
 
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Can we simply disqualify lvl 1 skills from birth damnation to avoid borking an entire skill tree? I think the mechanic is interesting, but that lvl 1 lock means I would simply retire the character in a way I probably would figure out a workaround for if another skill (or maybe only 12+?). It seems a fairly simply solution.
 
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Can we simply disqualify lvl 1 skills from birth damnation to avoid borking an entire skill tree? I think the mechanic is interesting, but that lvl 1 lock means I would simply retire the character in a way I probably would figure out a workaround for if another skill (or maybe only 12+?). It seems a fairly simply solution.
Birth damnation is removed and Babyhell corrected me in saying it was for a 24 or 30 skill, not a level 1.
 
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Damn dude! I didn't think you would got hat far. I just figured roll one up to make sure the rules aren't too restrictive. It looks okay to me based on the rolls you provided, but if you think there's value in more data, I can create some sorceress rolls
 
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I mean you can use the rolls provided, but convert to Sorceress/other class skills, so it will give a fair overview of what those three rolls would give.

The only specific is for barb, as their skill repartition is different due to the weapon masteries.

Remember that the numbers provided are "amongst available skills", i.e. of you see 1 in skills 18-30, and later 1 in skills 18-30, those are not the same skills (basically it will be the first if the lvl 18 skills, then the second one).

The good news is that it seems to work from @Grisu 's and I first dynamic analysis.

Thanks for anything you could do!
 
Well it seems to confirm that this journey is playable, with a tough Normal start to boot due to the obligation to secure skills availability.

It seems that except for very specific cases that can still be discovered/faced, the builds can be somehow chosen/secured thanks to the two Royal Seals, and with a variety when looking at Amazon at least. And that even without sacrificing items or even using seals.

Hopefully the 24-30 roll of the birth damnation has been removed, this could have hit really hard in the end.

Waiting for some reviews on the analysis done by some of you, tell if there's a point/class specifically to analyze before start, but imo the ruleset seems to be viable.
 
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Just for what its worth, people have guardianed without putting any points in any skill. I myself made it act 3 in hell on a barbarian. I'm not worried about possibility, more about whether or not it's fun. That said, I think I just talked myself into this being fine. Some classes may be less fun, but without gear restrictions, I think that's okay.

Looking forward to starting :)
 
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