This just in...

[korci]

Re: This just in...

I totally agree, however there will always be players who'll find a way to trade real money for godly items. If this can't be avoided (and I'm certain it can't) then why even go against it? Hell, you can even turn it to your advantage as Blizzard tries to. You all know the saying: If you can't beat them, join them! (first heard that from Bugs Bunny when I was 6-7 years old and it somehow stuck ).

I newer play a game to impress others. I play them to satisfy myself. I don't care how much did others play or pay to get those items. Ha can brag about having those items while I can brag that I actually can play the game.
I have friends who traded on jsp for items. They had spent all their time on the forums to trade for items and to earn wealth, while I was playing the game. They enjoyed that part while I enjoyed hard work and the satisfaction of finding for example a low shako. I'm sure I treasured it more, then they did their perf enigma. And by the way knowledge earns more respect then any items.

What I was trying to say is it is up to everyone to find what works for her/him and do not care about what others say. Eventually only the hard core will remain...

 

[diiavidgamer]

Re: This just in...

Well...it's all fun and games until 3rd party money-trade websites and forum gold trading like Jsp affects the non money non FG trades. I don't really care what people do/trade on these websites, but for me to be told ingame that X item has Y price because Jsp users said so isn't fun.

It's kind of like with inflation: I do my job. I love it. I'm having a good time. I'm making enough money to sustain myself/family and to have a little extra. Then some external factor causes inflation and suddenly my salary is not worth much anymore. Now I have to work more for the same result.

Same thing with D2 at least: I enjoy farming items in my spare time, and trading for items for builds that I want to try out. Overall, a balance of raising characters/finding runes/mfing uniques/owning bosses makes for a great gaming experience. But if I play twice or three times as long to get the same trading value so that I can trade for items for builds I haven't tried before then frankly the game changes to farming almost exclusively ( then you're pitted against bot users who DONT spend time at their computer mfing and who have WAY more items then you can find before you go insane -which again changes the average price of things cause they got more trade value to make deals with).

So to summarise: I personally don't care about 3rd party websites making money. I don't care about JSP users either. I don't care about bot users and so on. What I do care about is their cheats/forum gold/money trades affecting my ability to enjoy this game. Even though I was VERY new at the game, and probably didn't have an idea what I was doing back then, I enjoyed the game WAY more when I could trade a shiny Guardian Angel armor for something I needed rather than Pu/Um/Mal/Ist/Vex/Ohm/Lo/Jah/Ber trading. Back in the day you could trade any item because it had value, now it's those runes or nothing ( socketables too but I'm trying to make a point ).

So if you look at it , botters are encouraged by money sites and JSP forum gold to run 24/7 cause they can amass wealth while not at keyboard. I'll definitely say no to the " if you can't beat them, join them " with respect to what I mentioned in the previous phrase.

I've seen auction house type systems, although way more primitive than whats gonna be implemented in D3 and what's already been implemented in WoW, and every single time they ended up ruining the game in under 3 years. I'd go as far as saying that in games that run auction type systems , being away for a year would pretty much put you in the poorhouse. Auction/Trade Price Listing kind of systems pretty much lead to hoarding of items which changes game economy completely. Example: I played Guild Wars for a while, had fun clearing hard areas and getting special drops. A year later, those special drops didn't have as much value so it wasn't really worth the time to have fun and make less trade value that you need to trade for items you want. I still had all the expensive things from a year before, but they weren't worth anything anymore.

For example , let's say in D3, there's an item that drops in an area you like to run through a lot. So you have fun doing what you're doing and then you want to trade it at the auction house. What if there's a person that has 5 of those items to sell, 10, 15, 100,1000? What if they do bulk trades...If you don't farm or gather the same amount of X item, you can't really compete with them. And, while it is an auction...with BIN values the aforementioned happens.

 

[korci]

Re: This just in...

I think your example about inflation is a bit off. The game stays the same. Killing monsters won't become harder because others have better equipment. The rules and mechanics are static and can not be changed however others intervene with their gear.
You say you don't care, but in reality you do care. I don't see how the fact that you enjoy running the same target gets affected by what others wear or how they cheat.
If your goal is to mass wealth or play PVP then I totally understand your frustration, cause the time spent by playing legally can not compete with bots but if your goal is to have fun in PvM (as this subforum suggests) than there is no way that can be affected as long as you have your laptop/PC, speakers, mouse, keyboard and free time to play.
See what I mean?

The phrase "botters are encouraged" in D3 is like saying drinking is encouraged IRL because it's not forbidden. I think because it's not forbidden it does not mean it's THE way to follow. I will play D3, and I will try out the AH but certainly not for real money and will certainly not become a habit. If it works then OK but if it works not than it's also OK, I'll still enjoy the game...

 

[diiavidgamer]

Re: This just in...

lol. yeah... it was just an example. but my guild wars experience is true. 1 year and game was done. everyone's trading only the most expensive stuff and its not worth as much because of that. same with d2. This season, before I retired from multiplayer(ladder) , A Ber was quoted at 13 Ists, Jah = 9-10 ists and everything else priced way lower . So i dunno, but the simple fact that you have to have bulk Lo's/Ohm's to even get considered in trades for Ber/jah's just ruins my ability to get items I need.

I don't think you understood the " I don't care part ": plainly put, they can do w/e they want, but they should do it on private servers where it doesn't mess up my ability to trade for items I need , to make chars I like, to runs areas I like. I got the same response from people in the LoD Ladder Trade channell about this. Guess what though, they all botted, they all Jsped. Again, no thanks to either of that.

I don't really play to amass wealth, but , think of it this way :

I've played diablo 2 for 8 years on and off. In that time, I never made a good poison mancer that I could have fun with. I never made a good summon mancer that wouldn't cry past hell act 2. I never actually made my own enigma ( always trade for it so no feel of ownership at all ). I never actually made an infinity ( traded for it, don't feel as happy as if I'd make my own ). The most I ever had was enough for a Faith bow 3 seasons ago, and Last wish 2 season ago ( traded Hr's for both on crappy rolls , cant afford good ones ). I never made any decent druid builds. Have never tried out dual dream/Hoj-auradin build. I never had a barbarian that was even remotely fun ( always sucky weapons ). I never had a good bowzon ( faith alone doesn't give you good killing speed - need the items to support that ).

So tell me, if it wasn't Jsp and 3rd party sites that encouraged the amassing and therefore the eventual infestation of d2 by bots then what was?

As you can see , there's a buttload of builds I have not tried yet, after 8 years on and off play. And it's not because I didn't try either.

As someone once said here on the forums, god forbid if I remember who though, " there's only so many times you can run an area with the same character before you want to change your build/character class". That's where the screwed up d2 economy comes in.

Wanna hear something funny? 2 seasons ago, when ladder chars got pushed to non ladder servers, I tried to keep my trapper/kicker cause she had very nice gear and did quite well everywhere in the game. Never got bored with her. But I thought of respec because I had gotten some extra gear/charms for her before the reset. So , like any old chap, I went to trading channel and asked to trade for a token. 10 answers came back with token for 2 hr. That's right: 2 seasons ago, not now, a token = 2hr. So i was forced to retire that character because I couldn't afford those kind of prices.

Now, I know its non ladder, but that's where all the mass of items that were botted/traded for in ladder season end up in. So... how can one say that they don't influence gameplay value.

You said, "... is like drinking is encouraged IRL because it;s not forbidden ". Really now...lol. Since when does a drinker amass any kind of income by drinking . If someone payed me , even minimally, to go out and drink/party with my friends i'd be on it in a snap. That's what the money/forum gold trading does to games. It encourages cheating plain and simple.

Being a purely online game, d3 is gonna be safe from cheats?

Look at Starcraft 2. The cheats are being patched, but there were map vision hacks in the ladder games.

So, if someone finds D3 exploit, makes use of it, makes money from it, and amasses enough real life money to buy a new game CD then what's the difference between how D3 is gonna go and how D2 degenerated online? If and when a game exploit helps generate real money, sufficient for another game CD, then any rules set by blizzard become pointless.

 

[korci]

Re: This just in...

I think amassing didn't begin because there was jsp. I think jsp became because there was the need for it. While there is the need, there will always be a way. You may fight against it but eventually there will be a way.

I know of a dozen players who don't use jsp or other sites but still bot. They don't even trade what they find just play PvP on ladder. They don't need trading to use bots. They use bots because they can. I never used a bot and never will because that imho ruins the purpose of the game, but I understand why they do it even If I don't agree with them. I've told them on countless occasions that imho they are the ones who ruin the game but it's their decision and I was not able to change it so why even bother?

True, if you want to trade then you are in disadvantage. But change the perspective.
You have money because you work for 24/7 but you don't have free time to play. Does this mean you'll never be able to try out cookie cutter builds? Is it only the right of those players who have the time to look for those extra gear?

Unfortunately there is the possibility when you have no time nor money. Well which company can make money of that? Who has a purpose to target that audience and what for? They still can choose to play the game untwinked in the so called "Single player" mode... This can even get more fun...

 

[diiavidgamer]

Re: This just in...

[highlight]Numerous references to forums/hacks removed. Either post without pimping stuff we don't accept or don't post. Thyiad[/highlight]

Need for *removed*? So, what you're saying is that Ladder needed to become like Non Ladder. Inflated despite the reset every now and then. There was no need for *removed* to begin with. Look at Incgamers trades: people bid with items/ hr's that they find this season, not things they accumulated 5 years ago. Jsp just causes inter-season carry overs which makes ladder reset = xp reset only.

My example about income was to reflect what *removed*/botting did to d2.

To answer shortly: yes, it doesnt mean I can't try out the builds I listed. And believe me " is it only right of those players who have the time to look for those extra gear?"- botting ins't looking for it. It's cheating the game. Equivalent to item generation for open battle net. Look where open bnet is now...

Basically, that's why I switched to single player. It pains to have to find all that stuff, but I don't have to deal with realm downs because of fast character switches , which BY THE WAY, was made to prevent bots from working well. But with the 3 minute game switch they even got around that.

Just because I can't change *removed*/botting mindset doesn't mean I agree with them or of their use. Tbh, I've outright refused to trade to people that awknoledge that they bot/*removed*. It even got to the point where the guy tried to almost give it for free just to show me the "benefit" of the ways he cheats the game.

Case in point: if 99.9% of players cheat/hack/bot/carry wealth between seasons , then if you don't trade with them thats 0.1% that plays fair. Maybe you make a friend online who has the same views on things. That's 0.2% . Maybe you can persuade a couple of people in the trade channell that *removed* prices are NOT the law for trades. Maybe Jspers will actually follow ingame prices rather then the ones on their website. The point I'm trying to make, is that although its a bit of a stretch, it's like with voting nowadays. Don't just vote for the sake of voting. I'm not gonna check a guys name off just because... I'd rather not vote and spoil the results of the election.

Now, I know you'll quote me on it,lol, but just because you can't stop these people from doing what they are doing, doesn't mean you have to condone and trade with them and makem benefit from what they do.

You could also look at it another way : players that choose Vanilla Installs of D2 and refuse to get old/beta patch "sexy" items do so because they wan't to experience the game the way Blizzard supposedly balanced it. So just because someone plays older patches and makes available overpowered items like 2 skill Bk , doesn't mean I have to buy them. Same thing with botting : if they amass items, and they tell you that they mf by botting, there's nothing to force you to trade for their items.

In my perspective, if you buy/trade items from a botter, or from people that run older unbalanced patches, then by any logic you SHOULD be doing the same thing. You WANT to trade for the 2 Bk, you WANT to get cheap infinity from a botter. So why not get them yourself by botting? I mean, that's what you are effectively encouraging those in the game to do, isn't it?

So honestly, " if you can't beat them, join them " doesn't do anything but say that one aproves of said cheats/exploits.

And again, relating to others' cheats affecting my personal gameplay: If I went online and played, the result of multiplayer games is that now there's a lvl 90 bot running normal baals; people rushing the hell out of nightmare so no games to be had with anyone; and last but not least, bots doing sanctuary and baal till your eyes bleed out.

So the "fun" part of D2 online play sums up to getting rushed to hell at the expense of 1-2 forges, following mindless bots in chaos/baal runs while not being able to pick up a thing... and then being forced to mf till your eyes bleed out so you can maybe trade for an item to maybe have a little fun 3 weeks down the road.

There's not 1 Baal/Diablo run done by people anymore. As soon as the bot drops for any reason, you've got 7 players quick exiting the game. That's what diablo 2 is right now, on realms ofcourse. And that's why I retired to SP and chatting with you guys .

People on realms can't even play through themselves anymore lol, which is 100% opposite to SP where you HAVE to play through with mosts quests .

So basically, all my comments are directed towards multiplayer aspect of D2, because, like Nightfish posted, and like most people know already, D3 is going to run just like SC 2 with only online capability.

So, all I'm really pointing out in these page long comments is that D3 gameplay will hit a brick wall once/ and if any ingame hack allows for purchase of new game CD's.

Also, because of previously mentioned experiences, I'm a fair believer in the fact that " auction houses/BIN based trade systems " are future fail mechanism of any massive multiplayer game. The only way to keep a game stable is to balance the inflow/outflow if items from the game.

And honestly, the bigger the initial success of a game like D3, the harder the fall . The more people farm/trade/exploit within the first year , the more the game is gonna suck in its second year and so on.

WoW was online, pretty much predecessor to the Bnet upgrades and auction house system . It got hacked/botted and is now a pointless game. Guild Wars got overfarmed, items stockpiled, prices manipulated EVEN with the ability to remove items from game permanently by selling to game npcs. Now there's barely anyone on the servers anymore. D2 is another victim...SC 1 and Broodwar, yet again. Cheats in custom games that were not part of initial design, script overloading of game chat to prevent any sort of gameplay coordination. Nevermind the Ban hacks where someone besides the game creator could drop a person or entire game in the lobby.

So cheats = bad . Bots = bad . Buying from botters = bad. Trading with *removed* = bad. Trading money for items = bad...

I guarantee you that the last one is part of D3, which I totally agree with Nightfish that the games gonna blow because of that. I guarantee exploits will happen ( SC 2 got hacked and it was on brand new Bnet 2, WoW has 24/7 support staff and still got hacked ). So really, don't "joinem" at all

 

[JOSHK]

Re: This just in...

WoW got hacked/botted and is now a pointless game?

You're just trolling right?

 

[korci]

Re: This just in...

@diiavidgamer: Maybe you misunderstood me. I've never said we should bot also. All I'm saying is that trading for real money will happen either way, so why not try it in controlled manner so that the company has his piece of the cookie and I don't have to pay monthly fees for the game and they'll even support it years after its release.

No one will press a gun to your head to buy those items. It's entirely up to you to choose. Hoping there won't be cheating is naive imho.

And one more thing. Blizzard will be highly interested in controlling the flow of trading. They will do whatever they can to ensure their income. Who would buy items in a broken game? Especially when all the hype cools down?

When I heard about the AH I was also infuriated at first. Then I started thinking as to why are they willingly destroying their not even released game. Now I'm not sure it is a wrong move. Time will surely tell... and lets leave it at that since it doesn't seem as we would be nearing to a consensus. If time proves you right I'll send you an e-beer!

I'm more worried about concurrent spell usage limits or the lack of character customization. The fun in D2 is the possibility of customization and it's complexity. The new details I learn each day even though playing it for years - and still only scraping it's outer shell - are just amazing. Well, when it was first released it was a long way from its current form so there is still hope at least.

Ether way if it should lose its appeal there is still D2 SP for me which I'll be able to play for years to come (and also it would in fact take years to build a self found dual-dream auradin and a trapper/ww hybrid assassin).

(Thank god for auto corrector in browsers... It was high time to brush on my English )

 

[diiavidgamer]

Re: This just in...

@ Joshk: I never liked WoW to being with. But you're missing the point of what I'm saying. And no, I'm not trolling. I know people still play it, but I also know friends who left it because of that. Just because I agree with my friends on something doesn't mean I'm trolling. I just think hacks/cheats are detrimental to massive multiplayer games that's all.

@Korci: well, true, since they are gonna put the mechanism to trade for money in the game. All I tried to do was to point out the outcome it had on D2 , which you already know.

About monthly fees: blizzard introduced that with WoW. SC 2 never has em , SC 1 didnt, neither all diablo titles. So I dunno why you think that the introduction of auction house keeps Blizzard interested in updating the game after the release. To me it just seems like blizzard tries to get another piece of the pie it already had.

I don't think cheating will be gone. In fact, what I was trying to point out is that its my firm belief that the auction house will be part of the reason people will try to cheat.

Not sure how blizzards gonna controll the trading if its and auction with Buy It Now option. Like I was trying to point out earlier, its been atempted in other games and it failed.

About that E-BEER: "I'll buy you a beer .Bartender !!!!!!! 2 Stella Artois please. " ...*bartender pops the cap* ..."Enjoy boys ! Here you go! "

So cheers

I understand your point of view on all that you've said. I didn't mean for any heated arguments

And I totally feel ya on the character customization. I don't think I really enjoy the "put a rune in it" system they have for skill customization. Kind of limits you to a single role ( defensive, offensive etc ) depending on what you set out with before you get out of town.

Tbh, I think even if I play D3, I still want to play D2 SP at least until I complete an Auradin, a gg Frenzier and the two necro builds I mentioned earlier.

Cheers!!!

 

[korci]

Re: This just in...

* takes a sip *
Hmmm, nice brew... Next one is on me!

On my part the argument never got heated. We just exchanged our thoughts in a cultivated manner. You have your thoughts, doubts and fears and so do I. Some of them even overlaps.

* throws away the empty bottle *
Bartender! One more round please!

Well then... cheers! hoping

 

[Baradur]

Re: This just in...

I was on the fence about D3 already, from what bits and pieces I happened to pick up while feeding my D2X habit. This thread (not just the no SP, but everything people have pointed out that I didn't know about), has killed it for me. Not that I'm surprised.

It strikes me as I read through all this--especially that D2 Battle Chest was the 19th best-selling game of 2008--just how few quality games there are. I don't mean games that are just worth the money, I mean games that you want to play through again and again, different ways, even when they're 10, 20, or more years old. (Gads, I'm old.) Oh, sure, there are enough to keep me busy for the rest of my gaming lifetime (D2X, Nethack, Final Fantasy 3(6), Chrono Trigger, Pac-Man, Doom, Zork, M.U.L.E., Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, to name a few of the top of my head), but how often does one of those come out? The last game I remember really enjoying was Batman: Arkham Asylum, and I'm not sure I feel any need to play it again.

I have this theory: There are 2 types of people who play digital games. Type 1 are the wine tasters who really appreciate a fantastically crafted game, and will play something old and well worn that's a piece of art in a heartbeat over playing a mediocre piece of video-game fast food that's just like every other game that came out that year but with a different skin. Type 2 are the boxed wine drinkers with deadened palettes, who just want more of whatever's on the shelf at the store, because they don't really taste it anyway.

This forum is almost entirely populated with Type 1's. (The evidence is that they play D2X in 2011.) Video games are mostly made to attract the largest possible number of Type 2's, as there are many more of them, and more importantly, they're a lot easier to sell to.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the subject, if anyone cares.

 

[MizzouFTW]

Re: This just in...

I have this theory: There are 2 types of people who play digital games. Type 1 are the wine tasters who really appreciate a fantastically crafted game, and will play something old and well worn that's a piece of art in a heartbeat over playing a mediocre piece of video-game fast food that's just like every other game that came out that year but with a different skin. Type 2 are the boxed wine drinkers with deadened palettes, who just want more of whatever's on the shelf at the store, because they don't really taste it anyway.

That was said beautifully. Well done.

 

[Takth]

Re: This just in...

I have this theory: There are 2 types of people who play digital games. Type 1 are the wine tasters who really appreciate a fantastically crafted game, and will play something old and well worn that's a piece of art in a heartbeat over playing a mediocre piece of video-game fast food that's just like every other game that came out that year but with a different skin. Type 2 are the boxed wine drinkers with deadened palettes, who just want more of whatever's on the shelf at the store, because they don't really taste it anyway.

That has to be one of the most profound observations on the gaming psyche that I have ever read.

Bravo!

:thumbsup:

 

[Drixx]

Re: This just in...

I disagree. You are essentially saying that anyone who does not agree with your ideal of a good game, and therefore plays more games than you do, has no taste and is just a mindless consumer.

Your post reads like a classic "I am superior. People like me are superior. People who are not like me are the unwashed masses." type post. There are loads of games which are good on their own merits and original (and sometimes unoriginal) ideas.

Just a few I've played through in the last year: Heavy Rain, LA Noire, Burnout Crash (great game to play with the family), Mafia II (my first ever rockstar game), Guitar Hero something or other, Diablo 2 (of course), Portal 2, Civ V (enough times for most of the achievements), Bioshock 1 and 2.

I could name more, but I think my point is adequately made.


As for diablo 3 ... having gotten into the beta with my wife via Friends and Family invite ... I can attest to the fact that it's really good. What's stopping all of us from having our own community and our own private games when it comes out? You can play single player by selecting a private game, and at any time you can invite friends from the SPF to your game (or they can request to join you!).

There is the downside that you can't play offline, but that's the way the world is going. I see no reason why those of us who enjoy the non cookie cutter approach and who enjoy playing in a closed trusted community can't just set up our own closed community in the game.

It really is going to be a good game. I was worried for a bit about the lack of item depth in the beta currently and in the preview pages on the official site ... but then I remembered the original Diablo 2 before the expansion added so much more depth to the game ... or before 1.09 items, or 1.10 runewords, or the Diablo Clone (which I've sadly never fought) or the ubers ...

Only this time, we can have our cake and eat it too.

 

[Takth]

Re: This just in...

I disagree. You are essentially saying that anyone who does not agree with your ideal of a good game, and therefore plays more games than you do, has no taste and is just a mindless consumer.

Except he didnt say that at all.

Your post reads like a classic "I am superior. People like me are superior. People who are not like me are the unwashed masses." type post. There are loads of games which are good on their own merits and original (and sometimes unoriginal) ideas.

I think you are reading into what was posted and are taking it personally.

Just a few I've played through in the last year: Heavy Rain, LA Noire, Burnout Crash (great game to play with the family), Mafia II (my first ever rockstar game), Guitar Hero something or other, Diablo 2 (of course), Portal 2, Civ V (enough times for most of the achievements), Bioshock 1 and 2.

I could name more, but I think my point is adequately made.

If your point is that there are still good games being made then I agree with you. If your point is something else then I don't know if you made it or not....

. What's stopping all of us from having our own community and our own private games when it comes out? You can play single player by selecting a private game, and at any time you can invite friends from the SPF to your game (or they can request to join you!).

There is nothing stopping anyone from what you are describing. Of course, it has nothing to do with the point.

There is the downside that you can't play offline, but that's the way the world is going. I see no reason why those of us who enjoy the non cookie cutter approach and who enjoy playing in a closed trusted community can't just set up our own closed community in the game.

Unless, of course, you are unable to get online for any of a number of reasons.

 

[Drixx]

Re: This just in...

Except he didnt say that at all.

I'm going to quote the paragraph of his that I was referring to.

I have this theory: There are 2 types of people who play digital games. Type 1 are the wine tasters who really appreciate a fantastically crafted game, and will play something old and well worn that's a piece of art in a heartbeat over playing a mediocre piece of video-game fast food that's just like every other game that came out that year but with a different skin. Type 2 are the boxed wine drinkers with deadened palettes, who just want more of whatever's on the shelf at the store, because they don't really taste it anyway.

Okay, so he sets up a "2 types" situation. Let's look at the attributes he gives the types:

Type 1 (which he says is his type and the type of the majority of the SPF people) : Wine tasters (cultured), appreciate a fantastically crafted game (and therefore whatever they don't like isn't), will play old games rather than the new stuff which is "fast food" and "like every other new game with a different skin"

Type 2 : drink the cheap boxed wine (not cultured, no taste), have deadened palettes (incapable of "tasting" quality). Mindlessly buy whatever is at the store since they are incapable of understanding (tasting) what a good product is.

I think I read his analogy spot on actually. He set up an "us vs. them" situation where he gave one side good attributes and set the other side up as a straw man.

Since I fit his "type 1" mold, I've got nothing really to be offended about ... except for the fact that he makes a character judgment against people who think differently than he does or like different sorts of games. Disagreement and debate are perfectly fine. It's when we believe those who disagree with us are less than us or inferior to us or when we judge them harshly because their opinions differ ... that's when we find ourselves in a bad place.

Just look at the United States right now.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: This just in...

If you think about it a little, Drixx is pretty much spot on. But I'm not sure that makes Baradur's point any less valid. Maybe he was little over the top with the analogy, but that's how analogies are, I guess. If you wanted to be 100% exact you'd just state things as they are, not try to emphasise or clarify with an analogy.

Personally I've definetly noticed the decline in games being published. I don't even have to go very far back. Dragon Age: Origins was pretty good, if a little shallow. Dragon Age 2 amped the shallow up to 11. Maybe even 12. And there was not a huge amount of time between those. Now if I look back at Planescape: Torment and draw a line from there to DA2, it's straight downhill with a really sharp decline right at the end. I can do that with most genres.

But that's because I'm a hardcore gamer. I enjoy tough games. I enjoy games with a lot of text and little handholding. I don't mind getting my *** kicked by a game because that's the only way beating it can be an accomplishment. If I can turn on auto-battle and win the game doesn't really need me and should have been a movie.

But that's just me. The majority of people is not like that and I've accepted that. I don't like, but that's how it is. The type of game that I enjoy would not sell well, and in fact, rarely ever has. My personal "best game evar" flopped. Which just goes to show that there is no justice in the world and quite possibly that boxed wine is the safer bet in this industry.

As far as having the separate comunity in D3 goes... I've said my piece about that. Nothing has changed for the better since then so I'll stick by what I said. No D3 for me. Funny enough, I've found an MMO that's fun to play so I wouldn't really have time for D3 anyway.

 

[Drixx]

Re: This just in...

Which mmo NightFish?

And yeah ... the community within the community idea is a patch on the problem obviously ... but really it's what we did here with diablo 2. Single Player got the short end of the stick for the last 10 years but we still had a great community out of it yeah?

 

[Nightfish]

Re: This just in...

Which mmo Nightfish?

DDO.

And yeah ... the community within the community idea is a patch on the problem obviously ... but really it's what we did here with diablo 2. Single Player got the short end of the stick for the last 10 years but we still had a great community out of it yeah?

Well, I never felt the "omg, blizzard r h8 sp!!!11one" vibe as much in D2. The things that they excluded from SP here were really, really, really minor and could be worked around easily. So I wouldn't say they've always been trying to put us down. What were we missing, really? A couple runewords and ubers. That's it. Compare that to what we're missing in D3. The entire game? (No, sorry, I do not consider playing online in a private game the equivalent of SP. The reasons have been stated over and over).

So yea... I did not feel blizzard gave me the finger until D3. I do feel that now, however.

 

[Drixx]

Re: This just in...

Oooh. DDO. That's a great game. I play on Thelanis