Re: The WoT Mafia Game
I'd like to preface this wall of quotes and responses by reminding everyone that you cannot base your understanding of how a certain role works based upon how it has worked in other games previously. Each moderator makes decisions about how to balance his game, and you simply cannot know. Just because something works one way in one game does not have any connection to how it works in another game, especially when you start working with exotic roles.
For example, in Gorny's NCIS themed game, I was Palmer and my role pm told me I was a vanilla townie. In actuality, I was the backup doc and in a lover style role with Agent Lee and my death would have led to her suicide the following night phase.
In that game, I was pro-town and she was anti-town. In this game, I believe that Kestegs and I are both pro-town.
I investigated ketegs last night. I have not been able to post much because of the holiday.
kestegs has the "Lovers" role. Should he or his lover die, the other shall commit suicide. I was at first hesitant to bring this up because of the possibility of having two dead townies from a single action, but upon further thought I realized that most games use Lovers of opposing factions as a way to balance power roles.
With that in mind I believe a lynch on kestegs has a 66% chance of killing a mafia even if kestegs is town. Adding to that is the fact the kestegs was also integral in lynching coju, I personally think he is the safest lynch.
If kestegs turns up town I would like to see Uraj or Drixx lynched tomorrow, and if he is mafia then either of them or feysal would be good people to question. I would also look at Sathoris as a possible lynch candidate in light of his role claim.
Vote: kestegs
So first you out Kestegs which leads to me having to also out myself. We both have presented a PM that agrees with each other and says we're pro town. Given the information, it seems to me that we either must both be town, or both be mafia.
wait, wait, wait.... you guys are lovers and neither of you had any idea who the other was??
and... if i may say so, isn't it funny that both of you (And Sathoris) voted for Asrrin yesterday and i know from the last ten pages that people have been suspecting you and saying to look into either one of you and here you two show up as lovers? coincidence???
I kinda read up on the role of Ivhon and Aes Sedia (sp???) and it seems like they would be pro-town roles. Because of that, I am having a hard time believing that you two did not know who each other were.
All I was given in my pm was a lore name, not the person playing the character. Until today's day phase I had no idea who was my lover, only that they must still be alive because I hadn't been given the option to kill someone along with myself.
I couldn't say for absolute certain that Kestegs is pro-town, but I know for certain I am, because of my PM, which I shared with you all. From the circumstances though, I think that Kestegs is pro-town, same as me.
I voted for Asrrin yesterday because he pinged my scum radar. I'm really not sure what to make of his cop ability either ... he's a powers-cop? I'm inexperienced so I probably just haven't played enough to have encountered this before.
If we decide to test your claim, and that's a big if. I would want it to be on Drixx who in my eyes has been the far more scummier player of the two of you and if both of your claims hold true then (by lynching Drixx) we won't risk the chance of Drixx choosing a townie to go down with him (if we lynched Kestegs)
If you get what I mean. But that's just my 2 cents, others may disagree and prefer you.
But that being said, I'd rather sort out the BA/Ankeli sitaution we got ourselves in. Both have done enough to get themselves lynched imo, but I can't tell which is worse. If it's okay with you guys I'll back down on this one and let you guys decide.
Testing Asrrin's claim to be pro-town rolecop really involves lynching him doesn't it? He's obviously a rolecop because he got kestegs role, but that doesn't make him town.
If you kill me, the town is -3 votes tomorrow. My vote (obviously), whomever the mafia kill tonight, and Kestegs vote tomorrow (since he will be unable to vote).
That's an awful lot of votes to forgo simply on a flimsy excuse to lynch me. This is two games in a row now Sathoris, where I am a pro-town and you have been driving a wagon over me.
I believe that Drixx isn't vanilla townie. I got this feeling during the discussion about coju's claim. In particular, from #313.
Who do you think is a high percentage scum target? Who do you think is the highest percentage scum target?
Why do you discount the possibility that kestegs is scum?
The pm says that I [highlight]may[/highlight] choose someone to kill. I'm not required to do so. I would want to target someone I had good reasons to believe was mafia.
I discount the possibility that kestegs is scum because the pm matches mine. Since I posted mine 2nd, the argument could be made that I patterned mine after his, but you can't say he patterned his after mine. Also, I would assume that a lover pair that is split among factions would have the kill power reside with the mafia portion (which is why people want to lynch me apparently?)
Short answer, no I don't trust him.
For no reason. Simply dislike it seems.
Please explain the "Drixx half is more likely to be anti-town" part.
There is considerable circumstantial evidence to suggest they knew each other, or at least one knew the other. They share votes each day: D1 they both participated in the Rlyeh test, D2 they both voted coju, then Loz, then coju. D2 they both voted Asrrin. Curiously, it's almost as if kestegs has a vote restriction such that if Drixx has a valid vote, then kestegs can't post without voting for whomever Drixx voted for. Almost. The link is that pronounced.
Coincidence. I had no idea kestegs was the woman my character is protecting until today's day phase.
They are saying I'm more likely to be anti-town because my half of the pair has the kill ability. They also are rationalizing killing me because "all" that does is make kestegs unable to vote tomorrow ... but we're late enough in the game that the town being down 3 votes tomorrow could swing the entire game. That might let the mafia actually put the town down 4 votes from right now once two more night phases pass.
If you lynch me, that's -1 townie. Then the mafia kill tonight, that's -2 votes. Tomorrow kestegs would be unable to vote, so that's -3. Let's say the mafia can then push a wagon on another townie (perhaps a misguided townie jumping on me with the assumption that I'm scum), and then another night kill, that's -4 townies in the space of 2 days, and my guess is that kestegs would be killed not tonight but the following night to remove a probable townie.
I'm missing how this course of action is pro-town in nature. Essentially, if I am telling the truth about being a townie (and I am!), the game will change to 12 players and all 4 losses will be townies (assuming night kills and another mislynch tomorrow).
That seems bonkers resting only on the premise that lover pairs are "usually" opposite factions.
And this is why I find the claim hard to believe. Lovers usually always know who each other are (at last the games that I have played in)! I feel like you two are on the same team (mafia) but you're trying to distance each other with this claim.
I had no idea who Agent Lee was in Gorny's NCIS game. What does "usually" mean? Do you have some source to back up this claim with? And even if lover pairs usually know each other, what makes that apply to this game?
I was only informed that he had "The Lovers" role. I looked it up on mafiascum to infer what that meant. It's possible what he says is true, but Cal had said at the beginning of this game that the game would be fairly vanilla, and having such an esoteric lover variant seems suspicious.
Since no one has counter claimed drixx, I can assume he is the other lover. However, lovers aren't usually told what faction the other is so it's moot to try and figure out who would be mafia/town.
In light of the off chance that they are telling the truth, I would rather lynch Drixx than kestegs, as it's the safer lynch. If drixx is right than kestegs will still be alive, and if he's lying than he still bag at least one mafia.
Unvote: kestegs
Vote: Drixx
Why on earth would you go after either of us at this point? There are other people who have behaved much more suspiciously. Killing me will accomplish nothing ... since you said yourself that whatever I flip won't in the least bit confirm kestegs as one or the other.
In other words, killing me doesn't really clarify the situation at all. At least, according to your stated reasoning.
not sure Iif I'm going to be around later today so....
Vote: Drixx
I don't trust him and with a kill ability like that and I'm not entirely convinced of the validity of his role it's safer.
So you don't trust me with a kill ability, but you trust Sathoris that he was a pro-town with a one shot kill ability? I told the game about mine before it could come into play. I could simply have let kestegs die and activated my kill ability without ever saying a word.
Will happily switch bag to the king of distraction, but he has done nothing to calm the fears, is being very abrasive, minor slip ups in the posts, cant understand why he is the better lynch than kestegs and if he is town he would agree that his lynch would save 2 townies from being killed if he is town. Worthy sacrifice to me one a pro-town player could understand its importance
Why are you putting words in my mouth? All I've said about the decision between lynching Kestegs and I is that neither is a good choice.
You also seem to have missed the part where my role PM said that I
may choose to kill someone. It's not a requirement.
I'm going to have to agree with the logic on a drixx Lynch. I worry too much that Mafia will kill me and then we could potentially lose 3 townies. The loss of my vote for tomorrow will really not be a big deal, especially with the majority Lynch rule.
Unvote: ankeli
Vote: Drixx
Gee thanks. I out myself to save you and you pile on me. I should have just kept my mouth shut and let you hang.
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And that's my biggest defense. I wasn't obligated to help kestegs out. You all would have lynched him because before I outed myself all you guys thought would happen is that Kestegs' lover would commit suicide. You had no idea that I would have the opportunity to take someone with me.
If I was mafia or making a fake claim, I wouldn't have included that bit of information. I would have simply let you believe that killing kestegs would make me commit suicide.
And, in fact, if I were mafia I would have just kept my mouth shut and let you all lynch kestegs and give the mafia a free kill from my power, especially since Asrrin outed himself as a "pro town rolecop" this phase.
Explain to me why I would have revealed at all if I were mafia. It simply doesn't logically make sense.
So there's a couple possibilities at play here, from what I can tell.
1.) The wagon was started on me by a townie who didn't really spend much time thinking it through, or the main posts arguing the "logic" of killing me come from a clueless townie who didn't bother to think things through.
OR
2.) The wagon was started or the major argument came from scum who obviously know I'm pro-town and are trying to kick sand in everyone's face to essentially buy a 4 vote swing in their direction.
At the end of the day, the only thing that makes sense is for me to be telling the truth about my role and to have given you my full role pm. If I were scum, the only play I would have made would be to keep silent and let Kestegs get strung up today.
The only reason I revealed is because I thought the people playing the game would immediately realize that and then Kestegs and I would have to be nightkilled, buying the town a couple nights to flush out the remaining scum.
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