The PvP Thread
- Thread starter nulio
- Start date
@Jamie
What I wanted to say is removing 1.07 items might improve the gameplay with the exception of charms and weapons.
@Yng
Diablo is pretty bad for such thing. Tournament inspires unplayable matches and strategies like hiding in the trap fields or running 2 screens away spamming missiles to win with random hits. I've seen some tourneys and they look terrible to play at, at least if players actually try to win. It would pretty much come down to bonemacers, fireball sorcs and trappers. Everything else is just outmached by defensive playing of mentioned characters, doesn't even matter much who plays them. Windy would perhaps be good choice as long as he doesn't get paired with defensive trapper. And of course windy, barb and hammer all have a chance to win any match, it would be just too frustrating to do so in such environment.
Diablo PvP works best if goal is not to win but to have fun. How about simple fun dueling.
What I wanted to say is removing 1.07 items might improve the gameplay with the exception of charms and weapons.
@Yng
Diablo is pretty bad for such thing. Tournament inspires unplayable matches and strategies like hiding in the trap fields or running 2 screens away spamming missiles to win with random hits. I've seen some tourneys and they look terrible to play at, at least if players actually try to win. It would pretty much come down to bonemacers, fireball sorcs and trappers. Everything else is just outmached by defensive playing of mentioned characters, doesn't even matter much who plays them. Windy would perhaps be good choice as long as he doesn't get paired with defensive trapper. And of course windy, barb and hammer all have a chance to win any match, it would be just too frustrating to do so in such environment.
Diablo PvP works best if goal is not to win but to have fun. How about simple fun dueling.
Last edited:
My favorite is bowzon duels, which always involved sniping screen lengths away and hiding behind bushes with guided arrows flying all over. At least back in 1.09. Such a blast.
@Gripphon I had a Windy Druid named 'qp' or 'pq' back in 1.10ish era that was super effective in most duels, so long as I could aim and time up my teleports well. I loved having the super short name and health bar too lol. Since then, two name characters are impossible to find online lol. Lightning Sorc before Lit Sorces were popular and a Windy Druid, were my last memories of actual competitive dueling. 1.09 Hydra/TS was my favorite char ever, but she used 08 Valor and Shako and here I am complaining about having to deal with those items LOL! I guess I remember how strong she was when I could stand in one spot with Hydras around me and TS on and strong Barbarians would come in and drop like a fly before they could do much to me at all.
Making tournaments involving the same character type or class, or making it melee only or certain types of restrictions, making it so certain classes were destined to win every tournament, would maybe make it fair?
So in a tournament, does each person or team get to find out who they are fighting and what character class and type and they can tailor their build to be best against that particular class and skill type? Curious as to whether it goes like that, or if you stick with same gear the whole time. Or if you find out who you are fighting ahead of time and what not.
I know I have been asking a lot in here, I love learning about all of this and what I am going to be getting into. Talking to you guys is so much better than reading an old, generic style list of how the duels work. Talking to active members or past members is very nice. Loving all of the information I am gathering and I cannot wait to hopefully PvP with y'all one day! At least God willing my internet is fast enough to participate. Fingers crossed.
Also, how does everyone deal with gear changing? Like online back in the day in Public Duels or BM Duels, where depending on what characters joined the game and were active dueling, some characters would go to their stash to change up the gear to get the absorb, resist stack and other beneficial gear switches. I know GM duels can have limits on absorb, resist stack and certain other things on the total gear. How does it work before each duel? Like if I know I am dueling a Blizzy Sorc, do I then get to go stack up my resist and gear up to fight strictly a Blizzer? Or do you stick with a certain set of gear for the entire time and that is what you have to use, no switches?
I always hated how people had the 3 different builds for each element and would go and completely revamp their gear before each duel by finding out what the other character uses. It makes an enormous difference. Back in the day, I used to name my characters to mislead people as to what type of character I was lol.
I am type of person who is in favor of one build going into a tournament, team duels or dueling session and sticking with that build the entire time. That way you have to focus on building the character to be effective against fire, cold, lightning, physical and poison if poison is not BM in particular duels.
@Gripphon I had a Windy Druid named 'qp' or 'pq' back in 1.10ish era that was super effective in most duels, so long as I could aim and time up my teleports well. I loved having the super short name and health bar too lol. Since then, two name characters are impossible to find online lol. Lightning Sorc before Lit Sorces were popular and a Windy Druid, were my last memories of actual competitive dueling. 1.09 Hydra/TS was my favorite char ever, but she used 08 Valor and Shako and here I am complaining about having to deal with those items LOL! I guess I remember how strong she was when I could stand in one spot with Hydras around me and TS on and strong Barbarians would come in and drop like a fly before they could do much to me at all.
Making tournaments involving the same character type or class, or making it melee only or certain types of restrictions, making it so certain classes were destined to win every tournament, would maybe make it fair?
So in a tournament, does each person or team get to find out who they are fighting and what character class and type and they can tailor their build to be best against that particular class and skill type? Curious as to whether it goes like that, or if you stick with same gear the whole time. Or if you find out who you are fighting ahead of time and what not.
I know I have been asking a lot in here, I love learning about all of this and what I am going to be getting into. Talking to you guys is so much better than reading an old, generic style list of how the duels work. Talking to active members or past members is very nice. Loving all of the information I am gathering and I cannot wait to hopefully PvP with y'all one day! At least God willing my internet is fast enough to participate. Fingers crossed.
Also, how does everyone deal with gear changing? Like online back in the day in Public Duels or BM Duels, where depending on what characters joined the game and were active dueling, some characters would go to their stash to change up the gear to get the absorb, resist stack and other beneficial gear switches. I know GM duels can have limits on absorb, resist stack and certain other things on the total gear. How does it work before each duel? Like if I know I am dueling a Blizzy Sorc, do I then get to go stack up my resist and gear up to fight strictly a Blizzer? Or do you stick with a certain set of gear for the entire time and that is what you have to use, no switches?
I always hated how people had the 3 different builds for each element and would go and completely revamp their gear before each duel by finding out what the other character uses. It makes an enormous difference. Back in the day, I used to name my characters to mislead people as to what type of character I was lol.
I am type of person who is in favor of one build going into a tournament, team duels or dueling session and sticking with that build the entire time. That way you have to focus on building the character to be effective against fire, cold, lightning, physical and poison if poison is not BM in particular duels.
@Gripphon i agree that tournaments as a whole are probably not for everyone. In D2 especially, I’ve seen some pretty bad try-harding/3 hour+ FT3 matches etc. Personally I’m ok with pride matches and people playing defensively when they get away from a scuffle with low life etc but people who play 100% defense on casters/trap from g to the end are just so annoying to deal with.
I do agree that some builds are better than others for tournaments but in D2 there’s a lot of builds that’s just outright counter other specific builds so when you do a random seeding tournament it could come down to what you get matched up against more so than what you play.
I do agree that some builds are better than others for tournaments but in D2 there’s a lot of builds that’s just outright counter other specific builds so when you do a random seeding tournament it could come down to what you get matched up against more so than what you play.
A fun exercise that my friends and I used to do was 1 hour duels. We would play for 1 hour and try to get as strong as possible and then duel!
Another variation could be a single-pass run to the end of act 1 and then duel. Could be fun with teams?
Another variation could be a single-pass run to the end of act 1 and then duel. Could be fun with teams?
Last edited:
Absorb is limited (explained in the first post) to not make elemental characters too weak. What they do on Bnet is overabsorb. I do understand Trapper who hides in her traps against barb who goes at her with 2 Wisp Projectors and Thundergod's. There's nothing else she can possibly do in such situation. But, our limit is one Wisp and such duel is fairy balanced even without traphiding.
Absorb is not a popular option despite being allowed, it is mostly used if outmatched to balance the things. i can't tell whether players have several gear options in their stash or not, but such approach is essential to play some characters with comfort. In a way stash is also a part of a character, having a plan for every situation one can encounter.
In general PvP here is a lot different than on Bnet. Most notable difference is ping. Of course barbs and hammerdins are monsters on bnet with their super smooth playing without any delay. Here doing simple teleport+WW is really hard due to WW bug (character spinning in place) and chainlocking is not possible due to every fourth teleport being black screen naturally breaking any chainlock attempt. This is why long ranged spellcasters have the biggest advantage since they don't really need perfect connection. Secondly, we don't really use absorb to win matches unless necessary to stand a chance.
Absorb is not a popular option despite being allowed, it is mostly used if outmatched to balance the things. i can't tell whether players have several gear options in their stash or not, but such approach is essential to play some characters with comfort. In a way stash is also a part of a character, having a plan for every situation one can encounter.
In general PvP here is a lot different than on Bnet. Most notable difference is ping. Of course barbs and hammerdins are monsters on bnet with their super smooth playing without any delay. Here doing simple teleport+WW is really hard due to WW bug (character spinning in place) and chainlocking is not possible due to every fourth teleport being black screen naturally breaking any chainlock attempt. This is why long ranged spellcasters have the biggest advantage since they don't really need perfect connection. Secondly, we don't really use absorb to win matches unless necessary to stand a chance.
zemaj
Active member
That's pretty much it in a nutshell... PvP here is more like we all have fun and everybody wins. Bnet its more like I win when I piss off the most people.
And seriously... discussion over whether time-traveled gear is OP? When the basis for comparison is 1.13+, where there are runewords that can be farmed in a lazy afternoon that make anything you can get from 1.07 laughable?
'Enigma' 'Grief' 'Infinity' 'Faith'... that's your OP. 'Grief' makes a stash full of +40Max GCs look as threatening as a rubberband-gun. Hell, 'Enigma' is so OP, it's the reason only sorcs care about a 1.07/8 Arkaine's... I think the next time someone wants to belittle the accomplishments that are so insanely hard-won, as everyone here can agree (as I believe everyone here has played 1.07 and knows how frustrating it is to get that damned patch to drop anything), I'm going to start bitching about all damned easy to farm, cookie-cutter, OP, straight up bullshit runewords we have completely polluting this PvP pool! Its outrageous and disgusting! No excuse at all!
.... except its fun... and it's cool as hell... kinda like time-traveled stuff...
Because that's what it's all about, really... not trying to make the one omfgUBERpwnzerz, that's been done... a lot... and it's not that fun, really. What is fun is making a barb that dualwields Frostwinds for the >+25 Artic Blast, then name him Moneyshot, and join fullish (not full, that would be rude) PvP games, and run around spray-and-praying (giggity) in the hopes that one day you will catch someone at low HP, and then you'll have a screenshot of a barb stuck in 'casting pose' shooting the slvl25+ AB, that says "XYZ was slain by Moneyshot"... that's a goal worthy of the SPF PvP crowd.
Yes, the above is true. No, I have not gotten said screenshot yet... even at slvl25+, AB does really suck on the damage output.
And seriously... discussion over whether time-traveled gear is OP? When the basis for comparison is 1.13+, where there are runewords that can be farmed in a lazy afternoon that make anything you can get from 1.07 laughable?
'Enigma' 'Grief' 'Infinity' 'Faith'... that's your OP. 'Grief' makes a stash full of +40Max GCs look as threatening as a rubberband-gun. Hell, 'Enigma' is so OP, it's the reason only sorcs care about a 1.07/8 Arkaine's... I think the next time someone wants to belittle the accomplishments that are so insanely hard-won, as everyone here can agree (as I believe everyone here has played 1.07 and knows how frustrating it is to get that damned patch to drop anything), I'm going to start bitching about all damned easy to farm, cookie-cutter, OP, straight up bullshit runewords we have completely polluting this PvP pool! Its outrageous and disgusting! No excuse at all!
.... except its fun... and it's cool as hell... kinda like time-traveled stuff...
Because that's what it's all about, really... not trying to make the one omfgUBERpwnzerz, that's been done... a lot... and it's not that fun, really. What is fun is making a barb that dualwields Frostwinds for the >+25 Artic Blast, then name him Moneyshot, and join fullish (not full, that would be rude) PvP games, and run around spray-and-praying (giggity) in the hopes that one day you will catch someone at low HP, and then you'll have a screenshot of a barb stuck in 'casting pose' shooting the slvl25+ AB, that says "XYZ was slain by Moneyshot"... that's a goal worthy of the SPF PvP crowd.
Yes, the above is true. No, I have not gotten said screenshot yet... even at slvl25+, AB does really suck on the damage output.
Last edited:
Yeah, pretty much every old school pvper used everything prior patches could provide. Beta CtA, 2 skill BKWB rings, 1.07 hax etc. It is competitiveness that drove people to such length as to hit racks 3000 times to get gold shako, arkaine's valor and similar stuff. It should be noted however, that no matter how good of a character you build it simply won't be comparable to a no-ladder optimized pvp builds of battle.net. Only two exceptions to that rule would be nulio's bow amazon and his bone necromancer. Getting good set of charms is pretty much impossible for anyone in single player, and lack of Anni/Torch coupled with Anya bug means that your resistances will always suffer and you will have to go great lengths to make sure you got that *mostly* covered. Especially in ffa enviroment that was standard for SPF pvp and with resistance reducing builds that were all the rage. FFA also meant it was more worth it to go with tanky setup than full damage because goal was to be last one standing. With that in mind there wasn't too much overly defensive play. It was for the most part friendly pvp with well geared characters serving mostly as a bragging right.
I think main reason why pvp died was due to the hosting issues. For couple weeks when we had hostbot with smooth ping it was amazing to play. Sadly, when someone hosted on their own connection it was pretty bad. To the point where I'd be able to 10-0 grip on my host and he'd do same thing to me when he hosted pvp game. 10 years passed since then so connections might have improved a bit, and some people might be more willing to dip their toes in pvp here and SPF forums, but I have a feeling that without readily available games pvp would die like it happened in the past.
Also hi all. Nice to see you still didn't kick the bucket.
I think main reason why pvp died was due to the hosting issues. For couple weeks when we had hostbot with smooth ping it was amazing to play. Sadly, when someone hosted on their own connection it was pretty bad. To the point where I'd be able to 10-0 grip on my host and he'd do same thing to me when he hosted pvp game. 10 years passed since then so connections might have improved a bit, and some people might be more willing to dip their toes in pvp here and SPF forums, but I have a feeling that without readily available games pvp would die like it happened in the past.
Also hi all. Nice to see you still didn't kick the bucket.
PvP HLD next weekend? I should be able to host.
@zemaj you may even tempt @omgwtfbbqpwned out of retirement with that post.
@zemaj you may even tempt @omgwtfbbqpwned out of retirement with that post.
Last edited:
If it's at Saturday I'm in. I have a Throwbarb in mind so be afraid!
, I have new build too , that I will keep in the dark for now, hope to finish it in time but going to try anyway.@zemaj I wasn't referencing 1.14d characters vs straight 1.07 characters. I was pointing out that the current patch is built and balanced around the 1.10+ items. So the OP runewords you mentioned are in line with the patch. What I was talking about, was someone with the OP Grief you mentioned AND 1.07 charms AND early patch rares AND 1.07 Valor and Shako AND a Beta CtA… vs an only 1.14d character. Not one patch versus the other.
So a character built around the patch we are actually in, versus a character with the best of the current patch and then double the life and far more damage.
You seemed to take it pretty personally, so I assume you use quite a few items spanning over differnet patches. I wasn't trying to tell people how to duel, I was trying to find out what I would be going against when I joined the PvP scene. I found it pretty lame that items like those are mixed in with the current items that are meant to go along with the current patch, but I guess when one person starts going that route, everyone is going to follow to stay competitive. Kind of like if you choose to play bnet and play legit, you are going to be severely underpowered.
I don't like the idea of it, but I'm not here to change the rules of PvP, I am here to ask about it to see if I can compete and what I would need to compete and I did mention how I felt about it. I wasn't taking a shot at you or anyone else. It sucks that I will be at a disadvantage right off the bat, unless I trade or go time traveling. I have 1.07 character but I have not mixed items between patches. I am against moving HC items to SC, as far as time traveling, I don't have an issue with it. I do think it would make the PvP pool unbalanced to what it is supposed to be, but I guess I will find out eventually.
So a character built around the patch we are actually in, versus a character with the best of the current patch and then double the life and far more damage.
You seemed to take it pretty personally, so I assume you use quite a few items spanning over differnet patches. I wasn't trying to tell people how to duel, I was trying to find out what I would be going against when I joined the PvP scene. I found it pretty lame that items like those are mixed in with the current items that are meant to go along with the current patch, but I guess when one person starts going that route, everyone is going to follow to stay competitive. Kind of like if you choose to play bnet and play legit, you are going to be severely underpowered.
I don't like the idea of it, but I'm not here to change the rules of PvP, I am here to ask about it to see if I can compete and what I would need to compete and I did mention how I felt about it. I wasn't taking a shot at you or anyone else. It sucks that I will be at a disadvantage right off the bat, unless I trade or go time traveling. I have 1.07 character but I have not mixed items between patches. I am against moving HC items to SC, as far as time traveling, I don't have an issue with it. I do think it would make the PvP pool unbalanced to what it is supposed to be, but I guess I will find out eventually.
Last edited:
nulio
Well-known member
I hereby promise to install D2 if a host is needed. I have OP fiber these days and the host should be quite good. I just need to send my laptop to repair before the warranty is up.
Skill is super important, otherwise my win rate would have been way higher due to my silliness in grinding for the PvP gear ^^
Skill is super important, otherwise my win rate would have been way higher due to my silliness in grinding for the PvP gear ^^
@nulio my skill is less than good lol. Last I played PvP online, I was sick of desynching, programs people used, the glitched FRW and all the ways to exploit the game. I just wanted to play and run around and/or teleport and use the skills my character had. I didn't want to have to use all the glitches to compete. Hammerdins and Javazons hitting you from, what appeared to be, several screens away. Just crazy stuff lol.
I gotta make excuses now for when I continuously lose. The real reason will be lack of skill and my DSL internet that is JUST fast enough for one person in the household to stream something like Netflix. It can't support two people streaming videos or a something like Netflix and if that one person is using Netflix, anything else is pretty much impossible. In order to play NHL on console like I used to love to play, I had to disconnect every phone/device in the house from the WiFi in order to play at what wasn't that great of a level anyway. Gone are my days of being one of the top NHL players in the world, tear....
In order for me to get the only local cable company, they say they have to run new lines from across the road to the house, about 100 yards, and they want $16,000 JUST TO HOOK IT UP. Them being so generous, they offered to cover $2,000 of the cost. So for $14,000, I can get fast cable internet hooked up and then be allowed to pay for their monthly internet. What a f****** joke. Guess that's the price you pay for living out in the lovely country.
I gotta make excuses now for when I continuously lose. The real reason will be lack of skill and my DSL internet that is JUST fast enough for one person in the household to stream something like Netflix. It can't support two people streaming videos or a something like Netflix and if that one person is using Netflix, anything else is pretty much impossible. In order to play NHL on console like I used to love to play, I had to disconnect every phone/device in the house from the WiFi in order to play at what wasn't that great of a level anyway. Gone are my days of being one of the top NHL players in the world, tear....
In order for me to get the only local cable company, they say they have to run new lines from across the road to the house, about 100 yards, and they want $16,000 JUST TO HOOK IT UP. Them being so generous, they offered to cover $2,000 of the cost. So for $14,000, I can get fast cable internet hooked up and then be allowed to pay for their monthly internet. What a f****** joke. Guess that's the price you pay for living out in the lovely country.
Last edited:
Pyrohemia1
New member
I'm back on the east coast of North America, so my ping to Europe may be back to merely bad rather than unplayable. I recall having many of my characters the updated ruleset for resistance stacking, absorb, etc. so I'm probably only available for level 30 dueling or BM.
zemaj
Active member
@Jamie
Try reading my post again, but instead of as a direct criticism of you/your opinion, try to see that it was in fact meant as a mockery of the discussion at large.*
Also a call to lighten up... it's about having fun, yeah? So does it really matter if you are out-geared? That makes those few kills you do get really feel good... how it is for me, anyway.
*: (PEdit: after a quick re-read of the last few pages to make sure I hadn't missed something, it occurs to me that you are the only one strongly on the 'con' side, so I can see how you read as such... but trust me, if you haven't read my other posts much, the whole first half of that one was waaaaay over the top as I was purposely doing so to make a point... sarcasm doesn't always translate through text well. Let me be succinct:
I do not think modern runewords or time-travelled items are innately game-breaking bad in any significant way, especially next to the hacks/duped items you have mentioned ruining b.net. I have made and use all of them (that I have been able to, anyway), all are seen as major accomplishments to me. I think all have thier place, and make for some interesting possiblities, especially used in tandem.
I also think you should join some games and get a feel for things before making any assumptions... once again, there isn't as much 'I pwnz joo instantly wit mah h4ckzor lewt cause it mak me awesum!!!1!!' as you may think... much more '... I was just chased across the whole Blood Moor by a friggin BEARZON...', or what have you, as people here tend to be as interested in that as just stupid OP chars .
Wow... that ended up being longer than the actual post...)
Try reading my post again, but instead of as a direct criticism of you/your opinion, try to see that it was in fact meant as a mockery of the discussion at large.*
Also a call to lighten up... it's about having fun, yeah? So does it really matter if you are out-geared? That makes those few kills you do get really feel good... how it is for me, anyway.
*: (PEdit: after a quick re-read of the last few pages to make sure I hadn't missed something, it occurs to me that you are the only one strongly on the 'con' side, so I can see how you read as such... but trust me, if you haven't read my other posts much, the whole first half of that one was waaaaay over the top as I was purposely doing so to make a point... sarcasm doesn't always translate through text well. Let me be succinct:
I do not think modern runewords or time-travelled items are innately game-breaking bad in any significant way, especially next to the hacks/duped items you have mentioned ruining b.net. I have made and use all of them (that I have been able to, anyway), all are seen as major accomplishments to me. I think all have thier place, and make for some interesting possiblities, especially used in tandem.
I also think you should join some games and get a feel for things before making any assumptions... once again, there isn't as much 'I pwnz joo instantly wit mah h4ckzor lewt cause it mak me awesum!!!1!!' as you may think... much more '... I was just chased across the whole Blood Moor by a friggin BEARZON...', or what have you, as people here tend to be as interested in that as just stupid OP chars .
Wow... that ended up being longer than the actual post...)
