The PvP Thread

[Jamie]

@sir_cyclops thank you. So these are all duels with our single player chars in IP games huh.. sounds awesome. I hope I can get a viable PvPer geared up in the near future. I haven't really PvP'd since the start of 1.10 when I made a Lightning Sorc before it was cool lol. Most of my PvP was in .09 or early 1.10.

Do most people use items from 1.07 or other patches on HLD, MLD, LLDs? I just wondered because I don't have any 07 items and I assume any melee char with 07 charms will be significantly stronger than one with 1.14 charms.

 

[Jocular]

Did you read the rules? It talks about 1.07 items and says they are not strictly prohibited but that the duelers can decide collectively for the session. We're all friends here, I think it would be easy to get people to agree.

BUT, I do want to see some fools get thrashed by Rune Grinder on a titan wolf/bear

 

[Gripphon1]

Most significant advantage comes from beta CtA which can get +15 BO and has +2 skills.

From 1.07 most used item is Shako for extra life. Ark is godlike for sorceress. There are eth Grief zerkers from 1.07. From charms those with allres are used and random 12 res small charm. I think the only character who does use 1.07 damage charms is bowazon. 1.07 Valk is only for bowazons.

PvP changed a lot from 1.10, most notably everyone has Enigma and good charms, at least older players. It switched from "damage" era to "tank" era during the years, at least here. It is no longer imperative to have highest damage output, now it is imperative to have high hp, solid damage and some absorb options for durability in fight. Almost no one uses block with exceptions of a few specific builds like windy, everyone goes full vitality 5k life ~40-50% dr combo.

I think removal of 1.07 Shako would improve the gameplay a bit, that's something we can easily agree before the battles. Or even Ark to weaken the sorc a bit.

 

[Yng]

I’d much rather 163 vita for Druid over the block build.

1.07 valk is also really nice on Trap for 102 c/c and 5 FRW SCs can be pretty nice even on casters if someone who knows how to abuse WSG -> cast, repeat. I’d personally hate to do 1v1s if people had beta CtAs/08 shakos. At a high level of play on East NL and on multiple private servers matches were already really drawn out because of life rep and how easily you could turtle if you really wanted to/were really low on HP.

 

[nulio]

You seriously have no backup?

Unless dropbox pulls a miracle out of nowhere, no. I'm assuming I can find most items from the backed up stashes, but I'll be sure of what I lost and what I recovered.

 

[Jamie]

I read the rules, I was not asking from a legality prospect but asking what the norm is and howmost of the current active duelers play. I had a nearly invincible hydra/TS sorce in 1.09 with an 08 shako/valor. I wondered because since 1.10 started, I have only dueled with 1.10+ items. And although I do have a sorce on 1.07 right now, I haven't played her in a long time and haven't had any current plans of getting items to bring forward.

I was hoping that most of the current PvPers stayed away from 1.07 or previous patch items. I didn't really want to build a whole character to just be fighting people with 07 Valor/Shako, huge max damage charms and other items that would make them quite a big stronger than me. I was planning on bringing 07 items forward at some point in time to use on specific characters that could be built around them, but it seems like it would really mess with the dueling.

 

[maxicek]

1.07 is popular largely because of the PvPers - They started mining the old patches long ago. It isn’t like a 1.07 Shako is needed for PvM.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way around though - What builds do you enjoy playing? What characters do you have?

 

[Jamie]

@maxicek I know 1.07's aren't needed for PvM or even PvP for that matter, but I figured it was the cool factor that drove the desire for 1.07's. All my characters are tailored towards PvM for the most part right now. I have a Zealdin, Javazon, Blizzer as my characters that are closest to complete and a Frenzy Barb and Trapsin that are up there and then a Bowzon kinda further away from complete. None of them are complete by any means. Some are pretty good in the gear department, but all of their inventories could use work I am sure. I haven't looked through them in a minute, been working on HC, but I know I have only found a handful of worthy end game charms or close to end game.

I assume by your statement that pretty much all of the PvPers use 1.07 gear? I'm just slightly disappointed that it sounds like the PvP realm is full of 1.07 items. From dueling on bnet, there was 07/08 items occasionaly. But they were so absurdly expensive that you rarely came across them and I don't recall seeing any 07 charms. It just seems like, especially in melee, but even in non melee with all of the crazy life/resist charms too, that a 1.14d character is going to be severely underequipped against 1.07 laden characters. I guess this is a whole different type of dueling than anything I have ever done before, other then when 1.09 was a hackfest towards the end, but that sucked lol. Guess I will need to start trading for 07's or going back and playing 07.

 

[maxicek]

Yes there is a lot of 1.07 gear. But then people also play wolves, kickers, fire trappers and even fuzzy dodgers.

The community is small and it is in nobody’s interest to continually hammer new players so they don’t return.

If someone brought a PvM Blizz Sorc for example others often change builds to give them a chance. @mir plays vanilla and still does OK against us 1.07 hackxors.

Skill is often underestimated in PvP - I don’t think we have played for six months, so everyone is more than rusty.

 

[Jamie]

I don't have skill on my side anyway. I haven't PvP'd in plenty of years. I just feel like the dueling game is set up and balanced for items of the current recent patches. Pre 1.10 and post 1.10 are completely different animals. I think part of the point of upgrading patches constantly, was to try to get the duped previous patch items and to make the dueling balanced with the gears of that patch. But that isn't really an excuse for me, I'd lose probably due to lack of talent. I would feel better about gear being appropriated for the patch of dueling though. As long as PvM stays fun, I guess I don't have to worry about it anyway.

There was a period where I was going to hunt for 1.07/08 items and trade for them, but I ended up deciding that I liked sticking with the current patch. I was thinking that maybe I would make one character with 1.07s for old time's sake. It would be nice if there was separate dueling groups, but I'm guessing it's one of those things where there isn't enough people and you have to join the majority.

I have been saving anything remotely decent for LLD, so maybe I will try to build PvPers in that range. Where 07/8 Shako, Valor and charms can't make a 1.14d character completely over the top. Although thinking about it, I am sure there are insane charms that still fit in the LLD field and possibly some rares or crafts. So I guess I would have to find people who don't use pre 1.09 items, join in on using old items or just deal with not having access to the superior, pre-patch items. I just can't see beating say another Zealdin or Bowzon, when they have max damage charms that have 2-4x or more the max or min damage of all of my charms. Seems like the tons of extra damage, along with the options of uber life with valor or shako, would make it impossible to win a duel like that, without having extreme luck on your side. Bowzon dueling was what I was best at. Maybe I can hang in that, idk. Will be awhile before I get the items still.

 

[Gripphon1]

I don't mind removing 1.07 items and beta CtA from characters. What I wouldn't want to remove is 1.07 zerkers from barb since he does need such buff to not be crippled too much. I could make Grief and Beast in non-1.07 axe, but I'd prefer not to play the barb in that case. Same for assassin claws.

 

[Jamie]

@Gripphon I kind of overlooked the 1.07 bases, but those don't seem nearly as OP as the beta CtA or Max Charms that triple or quadruple up the damage given on each individual post 1.10 charm. I haven't ever joined the PvP scene, so I'm not trying to be a Debby Downer lol. I was just curious if some of the OP earlier items were common. It would definitely make it harder to get into a competitive position if I was only playing 1.14d and didn't join in with what everyone else does. I haven't ever PvP'd in a situation where there was a strong presence of prepatch items. Legitimate ones are pretty rare on the servers. I didn't want to shake things up and start a disagreement. I just wanted to find out what it was actually like when people got down to it. The things that went on behind just the set of rules on the first page.

The inventory is what really makes the wealthy man's character though. It's not too difficult to come up with the gear to compete, but finding end game charms is tough. Especially if you want to get 40 of them or an inventory of good skillers and 10 5/20 type charms.

 

[Yng]

Barb is ridiculously hard to play at a high level but it’s quite good if you understand the mechanics. Online “fpk” was really popular where people only played Barb/Bone Nec/Trap Sin/Ele Druid (a popular 4v4 mirror) for 1v1s even. I think Barb did a lot better in that environment specifically because while it didn’t necessarily hard counter any of those it did well against all of them.

 

[maxicek]

I don’t think anyone is playing with anything like 10x 5@20 life SCs. It is easier to trade for a full set of 20+ max damage charms than a full set of Fungal of Sustenance / Vita.

I personally don’t see 1.07 items as a real issue. It is a small investment in time to start 1.07 and rack Arkaines / Shako compared to getting a full set of life skillers.

SP PvP builds are different to BNet - Lack of Anni & Torch changes things.

 

[Gripphon1]

1.07 damage charms aren't particularly good to be used except on bowazon. On barb/paladin they are less optimal than life charms. Survivability > slight increase in damage. But, they do make bowazon playable. Without 1.07 damage charms bowazon is quite weak, fresh meat pretty much. She needs damage and she can't have that with 1.14 charms unless she goes around with 1k life to have big dexterity for damage, and such bowa will die a lot from random things that aren't even aimed to kill her.

Gear is pretty much where 1.07 gives advantage to the player, not charms. Charms make bowazon playable to not feed too much without having chance to actually kill something.

 

[Jamie]

@Gripphon I haven't dueled in a community of 1.14d characters and patch, with a 1.07 and 1.10+ item mix. I just thought it would be kind of messed up dueling in a patch that is made for 1.14d characters and items, with 1.07 items that were overpowered and nerfed also in the mix. I haven't done it yet, so I can't say it is I guess. Was just theorycrafting about possible PvP characters without access to really 1.07 items yet, without trading, and wondering if they could possibly compete, remembering how strong 07/08 Valor/Shako is and the charms. A fully charmed character with some of the best 1.07 charms seems like it would be overpowered, but again you guys experience.

I wanted to find out if it was commonplace, like everyone or most people using 07/8 Valor/Shako and charms or rares. I didn't know things such as if there was people who preferred dueling with only current items and didn't use 1.07's, if 1.07's were pretty much used by everyone or if it was a mix. I was just afraid of trying to gear up a good PvPer, only to come to find that I couldn't really hang because 1.07 items made a pure 1.14d character look like a punk. So I wanted to get an idea of it. Like do I need to obtain certain 07s to compete and what not. Because even my inventories by 1.14d standards are not going to be that great.

Mostly just questions and concerns I have. I don't want to come in and complain and say you guys are doing it wrong lol. I have never dueled in this type of environment. I remember the end of 1.09 when hacks stormed the scene and any sort of legit character had zero chance of even hurting the hacked burden characters (hexing charms, white rings anyone? lol). I didn't want a repeat of that, although the overpowering difference between 07s and the hacks of 1.09 is an enormous difference lol (40x 90str/90dex/90vita hex small charms on a char and 2x white rings that gave 100 to all elemental absorb and 100%IAS, made them invincible to elemental chars, in fact they actually healed people with white rings and made only WW barbs and Bowzons viable). You had to find legit games to duel if you wanted to play fair lol.

Is there a lot of low level charms and rares that are 1.07's that permeate the LLD or MLD scene? I am just wanting to figure out how I am going to have to build my characters and what I may have to trade for or set up my other computer for to be competitive. My long absence from dueling (early 1.10) is what will really cost me, me not being very good at the actual dueling part lol, but I want to make sure I am not at a complete disadvantage on top of that by not having the gear other people are using.

I have read the first page and all, but I am more interested in what the community is like and what items and things everyone goes by. Also wondering if there is LLD like lvl 9/18/30 or MLD 40-50 range and then HLD? That is the one thing I am missing from the old bnet days. I love finding items and making new characters, but I would love to get in on friendly PvP games again. I miss the days of the games like Palapk//1 and what not.

 

[Mir]

I felt just like you before I joined pvp games, I had only 1.12+ stuff and average charms (not many skillers of vita and such) vs players with better items from current patches let alone 1.07 items.

What convinced me to give it a try were some guides for trappers, bone necros and hammerdins that showed me:

1. I can reach almost the same damage output with little twinking
2. The gameplay is easy to apply
3. While I don't have the top end gear, what I do have is about 70% in quality and allow me to build effective chars

I never really felt the effect of 1.07 items in pvp games, most of the matches are FFA and very quickly people are at 50% or even 30% hp were 2-4 hits are enough to finish the fight (1.07 items or not).

I guess the effect will be more notcibale in 1v1 or small groups, but even then lets not forget that every char has its "arch nemesis" (barb vs hammerdin, sorcs vs trapper/ghost, etc) which mitigate for a degree the advantage they have from gear.

The effect is more a psychological one IMO, it's quite daunting to read about 4k hp sorcs and 8k hp barbs when you can reach 2-4k top.... but lets face it, in the end it's the same question as "what char should I play" and the same answer of "what you enjoy more/most", if you're more competitive person then it might be a bit frustrating to join pvp without top-end equipment.

 

[Yng]

How many people here would be interested in a 1v1 tournament? Just curious.

 

[Jocular]

Mayyyyybe me, I might have the necessary gear to put together a ww/trap sin and I think it could be fun (and frustrating) to learn how to use one.

BUT I just graduated college and will be using all my free time trying to get a job most likely.

 

[Jamie]

@mir good read. I appreciate that.