The Jason Bourne Mafia Game

GG everyone! Thanks for hosting @The Silver Shroud!

More to come after work, but one thing stands out:

Night Action log (as best as I could organize it on cellphone):

Night Zero

1. D2DC targets Mr_Thingyman for the Mafia team 1 NK (Null result NZero)

2. Prestige 7 Targets Mr_Thingyman for the Mafia team 2 kill. (Null result NZero)



Night 1

3. Prestige7 targets Drixx for the Mafia (Team 1) NK. (Drixx has 1 shot NK proof)

Does Drixx die?
Answer: No.

*no other night actions submitted*

Night 2:


Prestige7 Targets Drixx for mafia NK (Martin)
Result: ( Drixx survives)
Prestige7 dies in a counter-sneak attack by Drixx
( 50 % chance ofMartin Lindros after being tortured kills the first person that tries to kill him)

D2DC targets Zarniwoop for mafia NK(jason)
Zarniwoop survives.


No other actions submitted

Night 3 night actions:

10:49 PM (friday) D2DC
10:43 AM (Saturday) Leo
11:08AM (Monday) Leo confirm

Mafia NK on Drixx
Result/ does Drixx die? A: Drixx dies (One shot NK proof has been used.)

3:02 AM Caluin Graye targets kestegs for mafia NK
Does kestegs die?

A: Yes (no protections of any kind)

Night 4 night actions:

D2dc attempts to NK Zarniwoop (bourne)
Timestamp 12:29 AM Thursday
Result: fail. (Role blocked by zemaj)
(Zarniwoop would have died otherwise)

Zemaj Roleblocks D2DC
Timestamp 8:41 PM Wednesday
Result: d2dc role blocked

Nothing yet from Caluin Graye or Leo


Night 5 night actions:

Caluin Graye targets Leopold Stotch for mafia NK
Result: Leo Dies. (Currently)

Leopold Stotch Targets Zemaj for the Mafia NK


Result: zemaj dies

Zemaj Tracks Leopold Stotch.
(No answer sent as Zemaj died)

^^Clipped for pertinent bits

Game role definitions and mechanics:

[highlight]Alexander Conklin.[/highlight]

Alignment: Pro Town
Win Condition: Town Win

Alexander Conklin is The Chief of Operations of the CIA, also Friend of Jason Bourne.

Abilities:

1. Tracker.
May target one player per night and track them, seeing who they visit.

2. Brain Washer (Role Blocker)
May Target one player per night and role block them, stopping them from carrying out actions.

3. One shot NK immune, will be story themed as wounded and limping thereafter

Rule on ability use: one or the other, not both


Further Rules regarding Interactions with abilities of other players:

*Cannot track Jason Bourne
*Cannot Brainwash Jason Bourne
*Can track self
*Can be targeted by Mo Panov
*Can Brainwash and Role Block Fadi
*Cannot Track Fadi

So I never got targeted previous to Leo, but didn't get my 1xNKproof... figures...
 
@Caluin Graye

I've played on here a long time and I never once assumed that godfather would investigate to town. Maybe its because my games always have custom roles and SS told us before the game that there would be a lot of custom powers, but even without that, I never even knew that rule existed.

As to the last day, yeah, it wasn't within the rules we knew about. But, frankly, game ends in a tie is a sister-kisser. I would have voted to keep going even if I was in your shoes. I would rather lose than tie, I'm kinda weird. If the last day thing annoys you, I can understand that. I guess I'm not enough of a hardcore mafia "rules" guy to know about the former or care. I assume anything can happen whenever I play and especially whenever SS mods.

My only complaint is that I like to give players FULL knowledge of their roles so they can play to the very corners of their ability. SS didn't do that, and while it was mildly irritating, it did add some excitement as I didn't even know fully what my one known power did precisely (I could guess, but I wasn't sure). That's a choice SS made, and he made it for all of us to be fair. I would not have made that choice, but I'm fine with it as it was part of the game rules for all of us that we had some unknowns.

I thought it was a pretty fun game overall and its the first time I've enjoyed a mafia game front to back in a long time.
 
Unknowns are usually my style, especially with themed games (Anyone down for A John Wick game??) but not so much when I run things more towards standard. I understand the frustration and apologize for the rule changes, there were a few points were I was forced to lie about the rules because it would have altered the way people would have played if they knew about the interactions that were set up.

In hindsight, I should have said un-standard godfather role variant instead of flat out saying Godfather. This has to do with the books where the reader doesn't really know who the bad guys are until some time later on, there are plenty of twists and turns in the books, and I did my best to craft the game based on one of the novels and not a traditional mafia game.

I left out multiple bus drivers though.

Lastly I don't have a comp at home at the moment. Everything was kept track of via me PM'ing myself on an alt account and storing it, doing the bulk of the writing at work during the week, and using my phone. That's one of the reasons the start/end of days times were set earlier in the day.
 
Night Zero

1. D2DC targets Mr_Thingyman for the Mafia team 1 NK (Null result NZero)

2. Prestige 7 Targets Mr_Thingyman for the Mafia team 2 kill. (Null result NZero)

Rough :p

Drixx lie detects post #79
(Zarn "I am not mafia")

Result: truth.

That could've potentially been very fatal for us that it wasn't the "I am pro town" statement that was lie detected :p

@Mr_Thingyman @Drixx


I know you guys got frustrated, sorry that (Drixx) ended up in one of my custom games after not being here for a long period, and (thingy) sorry that one of my non normal games was one of your first games on site.

Unless I declare a normal standard game or the players want a standard game, most of mine are themed and the game fits the theme and its less standard. I try to balance things out as best I can but can't always do that depending on the theme.

Some of the stuff I would want to do would require more...victims.

All good. Thanks for the game. I mostly enjoyed the latter stages of it because that is when I had time to play :p

Also, I retract my insinuations about the balance of the game. 2v2v6 makes much more sense. Though I do think that for it to be even more balanced, town needs to know about there being two teams - or rather, when a mafia from two different teams have flipped, that should be made clear in the flip, I think.

So, I've played in a lot of weird games, in a lot of frustrating games, and a lot of 'edge of your seat' games. I've played in games where I've been killed off on N0 (so not really played, I guess), and a lot of games where I've survived until the end.

Before now, I don't think I've ever played in a game where the moderator flat out lied to me.

First, the role. I was given the role of 'Godfather'. I was not given specifics of what that role was, but as Godfather is an extremely common role I did not think about it too much. Godfather means, to me and I hope everyone else, "investigates as town when targeted by the cop."

But that's not what my role did, was it? I was actually "track immune", which is an entirely different role. Zemaj even stated that mid-way through the game - 'Ninja'.

This completely changed the way I would have played the role. I have Prestige performing the night kills because if he was tracked, it'd show him running around to multiple people and would give confusing results. I wanted to have an alibi if I was tracked, showing that I was not performing any illicit actions at night. Had I known I was track-immune at the start, it would have been me performing the kills, and summarily, killed off by Drixx's counter-strike.

I even asked Shroud about this when I started to suspect there were no cops in the game. I asked specifically if I was track immune due to the Godfather role. The response was "No comment."


Second lie was the final night phase. There were five alive during the night, and D2inDC had just been lynched. I knew there was a second mafia member out there, and was about 75% sure it was Leo. So I was left with a choice - do I shoot a confirmed town and try to thin the herd? Or do I shoot for opposing mafia and hope they don't shoot me back? Or do I shoot nobody, hope mafia kills someone not me, and get town to lynch Leo?

I cannot shoot Zarniwoop because of the track risk (Because remember, I don't know that I'm track immune!).
I cannot shoot zemaj as he's my biggest supporter among the town.

I can shoot Leo, but she's my easiest Lynch target.
I can shoot Thingy, but he's my backup lynch target what with the Vanilla claim.

On top of that, Mafia team 1 will shoot someone and I don't know for certain who. I suspect it will be me, but I have to play as if I'll survive the night.

So, in my shoes, what would you do? I elected to ask the moderator if the voting rules are correct. As detailed in post #194, three people alive means nobody is lynchable. It's not a great solution, but it does seem like a path to victory - if two people die in the night and I'm left alive, then I should be able to pull a victory.

Let me repeat that - I asked the moderator if the above was correct, even detailing my throught process about my path to victory. My response was "That is unfortunately correct."

So that's what I went with I shot Leo, expecting her to flip mafia, leaving me unlynchable with two people who probably have no kill mechanism.

Then the day phase starts and the rules were changed. Words cannot express how pissed off I was. I thought about just self-voting and ending the farce, but no - that would have been unprofessional and disrespectful to Thingy and Zarni, so I did not. But, as Thingy points out, my heart was not really in it and my responses were terse.

Had I known the vote rules would have changed my final night action would have been significantly different. I would have elected to not shoot anyone, left the town at four members, claimed out as a one-shot vig and attempted to swing the town to a Leo lynch.


That is unacceptable in my book. I knew going in that this game would be frustrating, but I did not expect this level of bastard moderation.

So I ask - am I over reacting? If so, then I'll offer an apology to Shroud.

Being immune to tracks is very commonly known as a Ninja modifier on most other sites, and Godfather is known as being "immune" to cop checks (specifically, that you are viewed as town-aligned if checked).

And I can understand why you felt like that about the rule change. I agree with Silver and I think someone else that ending the game in a draw or just letting a mafia win in a 1-2 final situation because of the weird voting rules is not fun, but after coming to that realization it would've been optimal for Silver to contact you and let you know that the rules are being changed - and given you more time to ponder your decision.
 
The communities that I've played on have always using deadline lynch rules. I.e. whoever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. I think that's more fun, as it forces the action. I imagine it would be a very big change for you guys when you're used to something else, but might be worth it to trial it for some games? :)

In case of a tie, there are multiple ways to resolve it. You can either randomize the lynch between the tied people, you can lynch the person that first got to their final tally, you can lynch all the tied people, or you can say that there isn't a lynch at all in that case.
 
As I said in the dead thead: Bastard modding is fine so long as you inform the players that you are running a bastard game. There's a place for themed surprises and roles that don't work quite as expected, but an uninformed player group isn't one of them.
 
As far as I'm concerned, we were informed. If you haven't played with SS a lot, I can understand you might not have understood that.
 
--->16) This game is unconventional (even more so than the Big Trouble in Little China game) as far as the standard fare goes. Both sides are stacked with abilities. Expect things not happen as planned. Expect the unexpected. I've tried to make it fair and balanced for both sides, but this game is by no means normal. Lynches may fail. NK's may fail. More than once. Expect other weirdness also. Hell, the Stay Puft Marshmallow man might appear and step on a Church...
 
I've played on here a long time and I never once assumed that godfather would investigate to town. Maybe its because my games always have custom roles and SS told us before the game that there would be a lot of custom powers, but even without that, I never even knew that rule existed.

You are told in your role PM that you are Mafia and that you are the Godfather. Nothing else.

So you Google it.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Godfather

Then partway through the game you get the suspicion that your role might not be accurate and you ask the moderator about it, only to be given a "No information for you."

See how even if you're not familiar with the role you might be a bit upset to learn after the fact that your role does something completely, entirely different?

As to the last day, yeah, it wasn't within the rules we knew about. But, frankly, game ends in a tie is a sister-kisser. I would have voted to keep going even if I was in your shoes. I would rather lose than tie, I'm kinda weird. If the last day thing annoys you, I can understand that. I guess I'm not enough of a hardcore mafia "rules" guy to know about the former or care. I assume anything can happen whenever I play and especially whenever SS mods.

My only complaint is that I like to give players FULL knowledge of their roles so they can play to the very corners of their ability. SS didn't do that, and while it was mildly irritating, it did add some excitement as I didn't even know fully what my one known power did precisely (I could guess, but I wasn't sure). That's a choice SS made, and he made it for all of us to be fair. I would not have made that choice, but I'm fine with it as it was part of the game rules for all of us that we had some unknowns.

I thought it was a pretty fun game overall and its the first time I've enjoyed a mafia game front to back in a long time.

Let me be clear - I think Shroud made the correct call in changing the vote rules on the last day. My issue is that I asked about it, was told that it would be one way, then when I performed my actions it turned out to be a completely different scenario. The term "moving goalpost" I think applies aptly.
 
Okay, I disagree with that. How about we give CG a special achievement award.

Nah, screw that you SCUMMY SCUM SCUM!!!!!! :)
 
Also, I retract my insinuations about the balance of the game. 2v2v6 makes much more sense. Though I do think that for it to be even more balanced, town needs to know about there being two teams - or rather, when a mafia from two different teams have flipped, that should be made clear in the flip, I think.

The town no-lynched four days in a row AND had a mod-kill of their doctor, and still won. That is not a balanced game.

And I can understand why you felt like that about the rule change. I agree with Silver and I think someone else that ending the game in a draw or just letting a mafia win in a 1-2 final situation because of the weird voting rules is not fun, but after coming to that realization it would've been optimal for Silver to contact you and let you know that the rules are being changed - and given you more time to ponder your decision.

Thank you! That's what I was trying to convey.
 
Okay, I disagree with that. How about we give CG a special achievement award.

Nah, screw that you SCUMMY SCUM SCUM!!!!!! :)

If you think I'm over reacting, that's fine to say, I admit I could be making arguments from a place of emotions. But the way you phrase it is hurtful and I do not care for it.
 
The communities that I've played on have always using deadline lynch rules. I.e. whoever has the most votes at the end of the day is lynched. I think that's more fun, as it forces the action. I imagine it would be a very big change for you guys when you're used to something else, but might be worth it to trial it for some games? :)

I've run games with that rule in the past. It has it's own set of problems, but I do like it more than simple majority, especially in games where there appears to be a mad scramble at the end of the day phase to generate any kindsof votes.
 
Some pertinent thoughts from the dead thread. Drixx touched on one above, so I'll not repeat it but to say that I agree.

Something zemaj said that I want to bring emphasis to:

zemaj said:
Thingy is giving it hell today... hope he sticks around for a game where he isn't bogged down so bad
 
If you think I'm over reacting, that's fine to say, I admit I could be making arguments from a place of emotions. But the way you phrase it is hurtful and I do not care for it.

CG, I can totally understand why you were upset. I was trying to add levity and apparently it backfired. I would be upset in your shoes. Unlike you, I would probably not be nearly so circumspect in my remarks.

Again, I often choose the wrong time to ease tension with levity. I truly didn't mean to come across like (censored) you.
 
CG, I can totally understand why you were upset. I was trying to add levity and apparently it backfired. I would be upset in your shoes. Unlike you, I would probably not be nearly so circumspect in my remarks.

Again, I often choose the wrong time to ease tension with levity. I truly didn't mean to come across like (censored) you.

Thanks buddy. I still love all of you.
 
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