Re: The 1 vs 7 Summon-mancer?
I have been thinking about this, and doing a lot of research.
But so far I have only found one guy that consider a summon spammer
to be one of the top 5 dulers.
There are quite a few PVP summoner guide. But almost all of them suggest
only 1 point in revive. This strike me as odd (or holding back), for revive
is the number one pvp skill for a summoner. Skeles simply don't cut it PVP.
Especially against holy freeze slow, or area effect magic (or both together
, ie. the hurricane).
This is what I come up with. The core of the PVP summoner should be
20 Mastery
20 revive
Rest is up to personal preferance. I would opt for:
20 Skele warrior
20 Skele mage
20 Amp (for speed, less aiming = more speed)
1 in CE for PVM
1 in decrep for act bosses
there will be +9 skill from grand charm, +1 from anni, +3 from torch,
+1 from belt, +1 from ring, +3 from circlet, +3 from necro head, +3 from ammy
+2 from negma. So without going all out, you have 26 plus skills.
That gives you 46 revives at 460% enhanced damage.
Say that you get 46 returned archers at 40 ave. damage.
With +460% from mastery, +90% from beast, +330% from pride,
+50% from HOW(wisp projector) +230% from might,
you get +1160% enhanced damage.
(if mastery add to BASE damage, this amount will more than double.
How does this work exactly? does anyone know?
I will just try to be conservative here and keep it as low as possible.)
Now one single archer will do 500 ave. damage.
and 46 of them will give you a wave of 23000 damage, or 20K+
This amount will double with amp to give you 40K+
or ONE HIT KILL as some might call it.
(the PVP penalty for summons is 1/2, not 1/6)
(I have heard that 15 buged claw vipers will give you 80K+, but it is too evil
even for me. and don't work against some ppl anyway.)
If you sommon one Big guy, the monsters won't fan out.
(less walky, more shooty)
and teleporting at 9 frame with your 45+ chanmpian archers,
you will just be mowing down other players like grass.
If this DOES work, I wish to discourage it. As you will gain nothing by
distrubing the BALANCE.
But will it work? That is what I would like to know.
And what I need your help with.
(I only know how to build characters the slow way, and have never owned an enigma).
PS. feel free to copy and past this anywhere you like, just mention my name ^_^
Hi AngelLove
Since no one seems able to answer upon your request in stead of just spamming your thread, then I will try to. I intend to only answering your main post, as that is the only relevant post as I see it.
It is good that you have done a lot of research, and it is sad you're not able to finish the research by making the final tests. However I believe to have a solution to your problem.
(if mastery add to BASE damage, this amount will more than double.
How does this work exactly? does anyone know?
I will just try to be conservative here and keep it as low as possible.)
I would strongly suggest that you write this question in the statistics forum. You see the people in the sub forums (from ama to sorc) does not tend to know much about neither in game mechanics nor pvp, which should be rather obvious from the posts you have recieved. Therefore you won't get many answers except from the frest newbies who are still affected by the general b.net pubby to believe to be very knowing in the world of diablo.
Now one single archer will do 500 ave. damage.
and 46 of them will give you a wave of 23000 damage, or 20K+
This amount will double with amp to give you 40K+
or ONE HIT KILL as some might call it.
(the PVP penalty for summons is 1/2, not 1/6)
Do not believe what arreat summits claims to be the correct damage values, check it up by asking here at the statistics forums or at the amazon basin, these guys can read it in the files.
I am impressed by that you can get 46 revives, however I am not experienced by reviving archers, only by reviving tomb vipers, but I do also know tomb vipers are very limited in the game, and since I can usually get 8-15 tomb vipers and do Andariel, Duriel, Mephisto, and Diablo via there poison clouds (single player, so I have the maps), then I believe that you as well may be able to revive 46 archers, however it probably will take some practice.
I believe archers deals partly elemental damage, it depens on the once you choose, I'd recommend to choose a type that is immune to your opponent if that is possible. Therefore I do not know if it is correct "just" doubling when considering amplify.
I believe the pvp penalty for summons is 1/2 * 1/6. I will find a source ASAP, but I will let this stay, since I am not afraid of be mistaken (or to lazy to edit).
Here is a link:
http://www.purediablo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323916
Note the calculations by RTB, he is one of the autorities around here (though he suddenly stopped passing by), and as you can see though it's another type of monster, just 10 of those after pvp penalty, block, and what there else where, gave ~10.000 damage pr. second with amplify damage.
If you sommon one Big guy, the monsters won't fan out.
(less walky, more shooty)
and teleporting at 9 frame with your 45+ chanmpian archers,
you will just be mowing down other players like grass.
I believe your archers first round will be fired pretty fast however something to consider:
The arrows does not travel very fast compared to what duel chars are used to (in pvm there are extremely fast though), and therefore you will probably be forced to be somewhat close to your oppenent before your archers can shoot fast enough, so your opponent cannot teleport/run away.
On the same time, my own experience from vipers tells me that with minion stacking, you may be very well protected, but the monsters are trapped in the stack, and cannot shoot unless you leave the minion stack, so you may have to run a bit backwards before they will start shooting. This may not be much of a problem, since in the moment you're out of the stack (1/25th of a second I believe) then the archers will fire.
If this DOES work, I wish to discourage it. As you will gain nothing by
distrubing the BALANCE.
But will it work? That is what I would like to know.
And what I need your help with.
(I only know how to build characters the slow way, and have never owned an enigma).
Why do you worry about balance in a computer game? It really makes no difference if there is one class that beat the rest in player vs. player, after all the majority are still pvm players (last time I checked), and these have no chance against a PK pretty much no matter what char they use.
After all a summoner with maxed corpse explosion should pretty easily be able to whack down baal runs when having a little minion stacking on top, and that is even some very good players are among the baal runners.
As mentioned zonefire will make it easy for you to test it, however remember it is just a game, so no hurry.
Generally now that I have answered all you wrote, then here is my saying:
First of all there are some classes you will beat consistently with this, but so will bone necromancers (sprit + spear) with a minion stack, and they are not dependent on a timer in the same degree since they can revive less monsters, and find these easier (I believe the common players better remembers where the fat guys walks).
You will beat amazons most of the time, they have a hard time getting away, and bone decrep + bone prison will force them to make an attack, at that point you will already be on top of them (they attack only a bit faster than you tele), and they cannot avoid the archers.
You will have trouble against assassins, even with lightning immune monsters given the assassin is not a kicksin / wwsin who will come on to you, but depens on her AI traps to do the biding, all this is due to mind blast. The shadow warrior will most likely get a mind blast in on you before you will hit the assassin (your minions will target the warrior) since the warrior is in front of the assassin, and therefore will be on screen first. As mentioned I'm not certain if your minion will fire at will or you have to run a bit back first, but after being hit by mind blast, the assassin can single you out, and that can get dangerous. You may still beat the common trapper, but the kicksin, and wwsin will go directly at you when you're singled out, and then it will be tough. If cloak of shadows get used then I think you'll have a tough time as well.
I do not believe you will be able to beat a barbarian who have a whole screen range of leap stunning. Since leap (short leaping when you're on screen) will single you out (if you do not know about this mechanism, then leap stuns everything around it in a radius depending on the skill level), and the barbarian will after that be able to teleport on top of you and whack at you.
Druids will pose a big problem, since their tornados can hit through a minion stack (it hits everything). If your revives does the damage you claim, remember that they also have to remove the 5 wolves (though I blieve that will only take 1 shot pr. archers and leave plenty of shots), then you might actually have found the perfect anti druid necromancer. Again if you have to run a bit backwards before they shoot, then I think you can get a lot of trouble, since there is not pvp penalty against revives, it usually only takes 2-3 tornados (14k-21k of damage) to remove every revive.
As for necromancers, well curses like dim vision won't be very fun, since you'll have to teleport on top, if you're required to run a bit backwards before the archers shoot, then spear will get you, if that is not the case, then it could get interesting, however if the necromancer likewise have a lot of revives then it may even things out again (though you should have the advantage if your damage is really that high).
Paladins won't be that much of a hurdle, unless they desynch out of place, and wait until the 3 minutes have passed. Since paladins can desynch due to their fast charge, you'll have trouble by getting the archers to hit them (since you generally cannot teleport on top of someone you do not know where is). However the paladin cannot really do you much harm likewise.
Finally sorcereres, if they teleport faster than you, then it requires some great skills to teleport just so you land on top of them, when they have more frames until the next teleport before your archers can shoot. However with the stacked resist, and absorb plus immune revives, you should not fear of loosing to the sorc during the first 3 minutes at least.
What really is the problem is that necromancers do not pocess a capturing skills like barbarians (leap) and assassins (mind blast), therefor I believe even if your build is as good as it may be, then it will only be the very trained people who will be able to use it with succes, and thus no fear of balance due to what I just wrote above.
For the matter of life tap, if physical immune archers exists, then they solve this problem, except against assasins and barbarians who can single you out.
the damage sounds good but the 1 problum i would like to point out is when you tele with enig u will be in 1 big group so all it would take to kill u would be a strong FireBall or some skill like blessed hammer that can hit you all
Blessed Hammer does only hit a single target at a time, so no problem there.
Reviving fire immune archers, and stacked resist with maybe a bit absorb will prevent fireballs from having any effect.
ya i spose your right and it does sound like fun^^
one other thing i would like to point out it will be near impsoable to have the full 46 revives running at the same time since they each only last 180 seconds each
It depens on the monster density of the area, and the amount of available areas of the monsters needed. If the player is experienced so it is just a matter of seconds from one area to another, then I blieve 3 areas (3 bosses each area) will be sufficient. This will still give relatively long time of the revives.
Though as soon as the first 100 revives or so (I think 100 is to may actually) have been used (that is not even 10 minutes totally of dueling), then I am afraid the game will be pretty much emptied for good candidates, though as stated I do really not know how many easily accesible archers there are in the game. Still with the numbers (3 times of reviving) 10 minutes is not a long time at all in a duel game, where people often stand in the town waiting or chatting, and in non pub duels I do not believe this kind of tactic will be legal, simply because of the power of it.
I'd always thought summons had a much LARGER PvP penalty than the one the players suffered. It also sounds like you are relying on a merc, which most people shy away from.
And stay away from LF zons!
I think (according to the link I wrote) the penalty is 1/6th. Revive is as well not very acceptable, so I see not much of a difference in using a merc, who is to decide what rules there are of the game else than blizzard as long as one plays in a public game?
I do not believe LF zons will be much of a problem, stacked resist + absorb together with lightning immune archers should solve that.
You will have low FCR and resists. A Ghost will terminate you, as will LF zons and Fireball sorcs. You won't have block, so other chars will have an edge too. Make sure you don't get hit by Rabies, either. I've seen too many summon-using necros die to desynch Hammerdins to believe minion stack will protect you. Not only does it take 20 minutes to summon all those things, it will take another 20 to resummon once you die (and you will die). And that's assuming people let you get your body back and you remembered to hide your gold so you can rehire your merc. And you'll run out of archers fast.
It's going to be funny when someone uses Slow Missiles on you.
The points in Amp are better spent in Bone Wall for the Armor synergy.
He claimed 9 frames teleport, so he is probably not using the gear of the original post, that was just to show the damage I guess.
Resist is usually easy solveable with the cost of a few +skills.
Fearing elements in d2 pvp seems a bit odd in my honest opinion, of course if one is not prepared well enough, elements are some of the most dangerous kinds of attacks, but I do not believe we should assume, that he will walk out with not resist, though his first geat introduction may partly have suggested that, he clearly states otherwise when mentioning the 9 frames teleport.
Block is determined by dexterity, so I cannot see how you deduce he would have low block? Block will be important when he gets singled out from his minion stack, but even with block, life tap will be destroying, so in a way block could be skipped.
It is simple mathmatics to know how well minion stack protects, in the case of 46 revives it would enhance his chance of living through a blessed hammer tremedously, but with "just" 3-5 revives the chance, still improved a lot, is not nearly as high.
Please do not write about things you do not know about, it does clearly not take 20 minutes to revive 46 archers, in pvm necromancers are pretty effective.
I really don't think slow misile will make much of a difference, since all the misile usually will have to do is to travel from the necromancer on to the amazon after a telestomp, not to mention an amazon using slow missile is a stationary target that has to be inside once screen to the last part of the animation. This makes an easy targets.
The points in amp does not have anything to do with this thread, he asks wether the damage is possible, and if the build will work, he does not ask about suggestions in placing skill points.
There are a few things I wish to add:
There is a bug that turns a necro into an invincible vampire.
There is another bug that gives you untimed, unkillable revives.
If these bugs exists, then I'd strongly suggest that you make sure Blizzard knows about them. Though I really do not see the big problem in these two bugs, if it turns out the damage of the revives aren't much after all, then if they stay or not, and they can be destroyed or not, does not matter much from the perspective of others, however it will make it a bit funnier (especially with the no timer) for the usual pvm necromancer, so I suggest you share your knowledge about this.
I would say, instead of talking up a build you haven't tried, try it and test it.
He asks for someone to test it since he does not believe he can do so, since you does not offer a solution to this problem you're really just spamming the thread.
Plenty of the PvP Summoner guides list strengths and weaknesses versus various regularly used PvP builds.
This is no guide, it's a (several) question(s).
One of the problems you'll have is damage (I think its been mentioned) that is AoE, splash and or piercing. A FC Zon will obliterate you, Fireball sorks will fry you, any lightning trapper that namelocks you with MB will also hit all of your minions, a Hammerdin that sets up a hammerfield that you teleport into will pwn you, etc., etc.
AoE as long as not elemental (tornado pretty much) is the only real problem, piercing does not hit targets on top of eachother, and splash is the same as AoE. Hammers only hits single targets. They pierce, but do not splash.
Sure hacks will probably beat him, what did you expect? However stacked resist + absorb will take care of most elemental attackers if you can get to them, and there are amazons pretty easy.
There are counters for any class, and while you may think that 40 revived archers = instant death, in a duel situation the other player is likely experienced and not some noov PvMer that has never been PKed before. Which means they'll have 75% block, max DR, probably some static PDR and MDR, teleport from Enigma, etc., etc.
So as I said, if you don't want critticism of your build idea, then YOU must go forth and test it, otherwise simply talking up a hypothetical build with nothing to back it up just makes you look ignorant.
Well then tell me the counter class of the Barbarian? The only counter I can come up with is another stronger Barbarian, otherwise it's pretty even against most classes (Necromancers and Paladins, to some extend Amazons), and pretty dominant against others (Assassins, Druids, and Sorcs).
Honestly, I really do not believe any duelist concerns about PDR by integer, that is just stupid, since it is so seldom needed, and there are already pretty tight stash limits as it is for many duelers.
Of course the damage should be calculated with the maximum possible defense of the opponent, what did you expect?
He does not ask about what you think about his idea, he asks if the pvp enviroment allows for it (if the archers will be as effective in firing as a shadow warrior firing mind blast when an opponent comes close, or if they will be more like slow, and easy avoidable.)
Further he says he's not able to test it, and asks others to do so, it really makes you look ignorant when you don't read the post you're answering (You had that one comming, I really don't mean it makes you look ignorant, since many people here does it, and I believe ignorant to be decided by the common denominator).
Before extolling the virtues of a thing, you must first test it YOURSELF, or you just look like an idiot.
I think you're lucky no one have reported you for flaming, since you do not really explain why it is as you say. It's completely legimite to ask others to test, if one is not able to. In science there are usually the people who makes the theories, and the people who makes the experiments, those who makes the theories uses data from various sources, as AngelLove have done in his oppening post, then the theorists asks the experimentalist to get some data, to check wether his theory, which he got by looking at previous data, holds true. In computer games we are so lucky that it does not have to be like that, but not all of us have the time, or the ability to make these tests. It's "idiotic" to think otherwise. (Again you had that one comming)
Not laughing at you, simply saying don't make outlandish claims about something before first checking it yourself. Its like a physicist saying that perpetual motion is real and simple, but just needs someone else to do the hard work.
No, as stated there's a clear difference between theory and experiment, that you're writing are both theory. Like if I said the there exist a build that can win every duel, but someone else has to find it.
A person wins a duel when the other person dies. Not because someone has to convince the other they lost. Skeles and skelemagi are known qualities in a build, whereas Revives are not. I highly doubt that in every Summon Necro PvP victory the direct reason is lucky awesome revives. That's statistically impossible.
What are you talking about, convincing people? Where did that came from? Skeletons, and especially mages are not in any way good enough for strong duels.
Probably not every victory, but some monsters out there do hit hard, and it may very well be a lot of the victories came that way.
Nothing can be statistically impossible, it can be statistically improbable, but realistic impossible.
You might have an interesting idea, but all you're doing is talking up something you have no idea of. You're a snake oil salesman in that respect. Plus, you really shouldn't diss the community that has put up many fine Necro guides, or done this very type of research.
He got the idea from other places, combining data in a way not many have done before, and it needs to be tested, what do you expect when he asks someone to test it?
This community is past its glory days in my honest opinion. You can find few knowing duelist people in the pvp section, but these does not seem to go much out of there, and you can find some few people who really knows a lot about the game mechanics in the statistics section, but look at the amount of people who reguarly post, and amount of misinformation that goes around. It is not weird that the knowing people seem to dissapear from this community. Finally look at this post, a user asks if someone can test something, and all he gets back is that people finds his suggest laughable.
YOU do the math. Simple. Then come tell how it worked out, and you'll get credit for your innovative idea. But stop trying to get others to do the dirty work for you.
He has done the math, and also asks help about this as well. You should read his post.
In an attempt to give you fair criticism, I'll go through your OP step by step.
He does not ask for an opinion, he asks for facts. Only the duel part is opinion demanding, and many before you already answered this, and that incorrect assuming he'd play around like a n00b.
You have a distinct LACK of research, and there MIGHT be a reason why only one person considers a Summoner in the top 5.
Again what do you think the point of this thread is?
There's a couple of reasons. The Revive timer, which makes it difficult even with teleport to gather up 46 revived hell archer types. The negatives you list also affect your Revives as well. Revive is NOT the #1 PvP skill for summoners, otherwise it would be more in use. That is just your unsubstantiated claim. And considering that many necros load up on +skills, a 1 point investment can return great dividends on Revive, especially when those points can be added into SM, curses or even a Bone spell, there are several Bone/Summon Hybrid guides for instance.
I partly agree, but your logic is failed. The argument, A is better than B, otherwise everyone would already know B was the best, can win every argument if it was not failed logic. Either you go all the way, or bone spells are not worth it. He wants 46 revives for a reason, it gives that number when adding the skills, 46 is a lot better than 27, remember that.
Your "core" build requires 105 skill points. Not very many people are going to level a guardian/pat/matriarch to level 94 to test some lurker's half-cocked theory.
Bad bad example. Level 94 is not the limit where it gets to boring to play on for many people, just look at the ladder, but eventhough, test will usually be done in single player for easy accesibility, and if possible, to ensure lag free environment.
Without going all out? 9 skillers, anni, torch, enigma, and expensive other gear in slots. So not only do you want someone else to do the testing for you, you've restricted it to pretty much the uber rich?
Wether or not items are expensive are dependent of the wealth one has. For AngelLove they may be expensive, but just look at d2jsp, many there could easily buy such a necromancer, and thereby making it not expensive. Heck one guy I know who started some time after the ladder reset has gotten his hands into lots of stuff by cow leveling and collecting good socketed plain items.
And yes he wants someone else to test it for him, because he believe it is not possible for himself, is there any problem about asking others do so, when one self are limited? It is a great opportunity if it turns out the build is very good, and if it sucks then it really does not take that much to create it. (Just to test it does not require level 94). If he could not come here asking for this, then this forum would have lost the last meaning it had (okay I did not mean that, sorry).
More expensive stuff here, Wisp and Beast, Pride, etc. And that's conservative? Not to mention that by the time you are able to Revive the 46th monster, your initial Revives are already dieing off.
Conservative does not come down to the equipment, since we all know what the equipment does, otherwise you can find it at arreat summit, no what is conservative is the ways where one is not certain, then setting these area as low as possible.
I disagree about the revives, but I have written that to you so many times now I will not write the same again, for further explanation, look up.
Not sure where you're getting all these numbers, but don't you think if these numbers were valid AND the management of 46 Revived archers were possible, that people would be calling this the cookie cutter PvP summoner?
No, it's failed logic to assume very possible variant of any possible character has ever been tested, not to mention given up to public.
His numbers seems valid, try testing his sources, however I doubt them, not because I doubt him, no I doubt his sources (Blizzard's homepage).
I'm not sure why, but every one of your posts is overflowing with drama and gravitas, over a build you yourself have only conceived of in your head, without taking the time to really work out the details. Here's a couple:
Why are you flaming? This is the sort of things that can get you banned.
And he sure did look at the details, he looked at the damage calculations, given by the sources he had, and wanted someone to confirm by testing, and wanted someone with knowledge in mechanics to tell how the damage actually is calculated, and how revives works in a pvp environment (cool down, autoaim, etc.)
1. Upkeep of Revives. Maintaining 46, much less 46 of a specific type in random spawning areas imho is nigh on impossible.
2. Gear requirement. Utterly rediculous for all but the richest of players, making the ability to test a snowball's chance in hell.
3. Minion stack. This has been mentioned, but you seem all to willing to ignore criticism, but a well aimed fireball, lightning bolt, blessed hammer or any number of AoE/splash attacks will kill you, and your army. A Trapsin would simply namelock you with MB, keeping you and your 46 Revives stunned, while the piercing lightning traps decimate you and your invincible army.
1. He never talked about how long he wanted to duel, why do you mention this? Upkeeping should not be the problem, the problem should be if he can get his opponents down before the timer expire.
2. You should try to play this game some more, it is really not hard to get great gear, and finally someone with a single player editor could test it quickly (I do not think AngelLove thought about this).
3. Do not talk about things you clearly do not know about. Blessed Hammer only hits one target at a time. Elemental damage can be resisted, and absorbed, to a degree that does not make those a threat.
Though I partly agree with some of your comments, but minion stack is simple as an example the paladins worst nightmare.
If you want name recognition, try testing your idea, and post a writeup of the success or failure. If you can't be bothered to test it, then whoever does (IF ever) deserves the credit for doing th actual work.
He cannot test his idea, you write it youself, but still in every post you suggest he should do it anyway, is that not a weird claim? He does not state wether or not he bothers to do anything, it is more a matter of ability, which he states he does not have, is that really so hard to comprehend?
Yeah, there's a reason for that.
Dead people will not teleport around with 45 champion archers.
Dead people, before dying, desynch and hammer, which prevents them from ever becoming dead. It will help YOU reach that state, though.
A Life Tap wand or Exile will keep people whirlwinding and smiting happily.
And then come 8 minutes of finding new archers, killing them and Reviving them.
FHR is what you will need when MBed and trapped, when all your 460%ED archers are just sitting there doing nothing while someone puts their Shadow Dancers in your ***.
And if you never hit, you never kill. You seem to forget you're dueling people who are alive, not dead. They can do plenty.
If you were less of a weekend warrior, you would know monsters don't instantly react to your presence, which is why high FCR makes for safe teleporting.
Archers only hit stationary targets, which aren't too common in PvP.
All will be decided the second you take to the field against a char that outclasses you.
They hit you.
You die.
No argumentations equals spam, what you just wrote was:
Spam.
Partly agree, but hammers does not work great against stacking.
Physical immune wins against smiters since they cannot single the necromancer out. Whirlwind barb can however, there I agree.
Spam. You have no idea of the time, so why do you postulate as you have?
FHR won't help him much when singled out. His only damage source is from archers, and they cannot recover. (Though stun works differently on monsters than what you may think)
Teleports are limited to as low as 7 frame for the fastest. Many monsters hits faster than that. If you have played a bit pvm on hell, and have been hit by a group of monsters that does more than 1/12th of your hit point, you will notice that you can walk away, but you can certainly not teleport away. When the group is ranged and will to every time fire in the direction you walk out, then you are pretty much chanceless in avoiding a hit.
Correct, but it requires more than 9 FPS IIRC, and that is monsters that you do not land on top of (you may have noticed you merc often gets a few swing in eventhough you keeps on teleporting). Beside this necro have a merc as well who will probably either make you block (so you won't get to teleport away in time) or anyone who teleports fast enough to avoid the general monster would also likely be stunned when hit by a merc. Therefore your argumentation does not hold valid. It requires to be tested.
Incorrect, if you played more PVM you'd know.
Spam.
Spam.
Sorry about not quoting every part, this post seems more and more like a waste of time.
he sure knows how to make a good impression
Why are you spamming? The math should be enough to make a person decide wether or not he wants to test this build. Are you also one of the folks who vote on politicians depending on how popular they are, and not on what they wish to change in the community?
Look pal, I didn't say Reviving 46 monsters was impossible. What I said was reviving the SAME monster type in a game with random monster spawns, then rushing to duel before the 3minute monster timer runs out IS.
Again, if its been done many many times, then you already know whether it would be successful by the commonality of use. If I remember correctly 1.12 has been out for over six months now, and didn't even contain any major gameplay changes. As many people as there are that play this game, and with as many are number crunchers and optimizers, indicates the reason WHY certain builds are cookie cutters and others not.
While the term cookie cutter has a certain negative connotation associated with it, the bottom line is that they are generally the most effective builds. I don't see why, in the face of glaring evidence to the contrary, you're so gung ho over an idea that I'm sure has been tested, and due to the problems with Revive AI and the 3 minute timer, was thrown out the window as unworkable.
However you really do not know if it is impossible, so why do you insist?
Again, failed logic, look at earlier explanation.
Not many of the people are into the game mechanics, have you never met the average b.net guy, who thinks metoer steals his experience, and poison bugs critical strike?
What evidence? The so called experienced people who write one thing after another wrong?
Opponents are not stupid AI archers. 200 FCR Fireball Sorks are not going to sit still and politely wait for your archers to kill them. Its also quite simple in longer duels to just wait out the timer on Revives! Any class in dueling nowadays has Teleport, PDR, resists, etc., etc. Your idea will work great against stupid AI, but even bad duelers with mediocre gear are not going to be surprised by a teleporting summoner. Which is WHY you know of only one person who considers summoners one of the top 5, and probably NOT Revive builds, for all the negatives that have been posted in this thread.
Keep posting your over the top drama infused posts though, they're good for a laugh.
It really sounds like you have tested this build, but you keep claiming that it must have been tested because in the time that has passed since the game was released, every single possibility must have been tested. I mean comeon do you know how long time it took before Amazon Basin found out that strafe was not a 2 frame attack? Do you know how many people who now thinks that bears cannot hit 12,5 times pr. second while they in fact can? You're the one making claims here, you have no evidence, and you've flamed quite a lot.
Then do it. Or are you telling me that you don't have a summoner necro after all this "awesomeness" you attribute to the build? That would be just crazy.
In every single post you have written this, every time you have got an asnwer, the answer even stands in the very first post, I have answered it several times by now, you even admitted to have read it earlier! Because something looks really good on paper does not mean it is possible for the given person to test it, on paper it also looks like a combination of volcano and mind blast will stun any char in the game (that does not use wsg), and yet no one has tested it yet. You expect way to much of this comunity, and stop flaming the other people please.
Oh well it seems like the thread keep on repeating it self, I will just stop now, and wont comment on what other people have wroten, since it's probably just the same kind of "no evidence, failed logic, false information, flame" kind, that has nothing to do with the OP, that asks for only three simple things.
My bottom line is, AngelLove, use a hero editor as written in the top, when you have the time, that's probably the only way you're going to find out.