OT: Nethack

Re: OT: Nethack

Laura the Archaeologist report #3 - Sex, Drugs, Drinking and...Reading?

Laura and Eve (the mighty warhorse) explored the Dungeons of Doom a couple of levels deeper than she had been before. DL 6 is the one with the stairs to sokoban - the werewolf was no longer a threat, as they are really wimpy when you have protection from shape changers (can´t infect you, can´t summon help)).

Found a smaller (2x7 squares) General Store that had some potions and a bag of tricks, but not much else of interest. Eve was getting the stuffing beat out of her (and shopkeeper drank extra healing and was still at about 50 HP), so I had to leave, heal her up and regenerate my power for more healing spells. Then we returned and Eve killed the shopkeeper. Back to Minetown and I could buy another round of protection (naked AC is now 4).

Laura was now strong enough to drink from fountains (I figured the risk of getting "this water´s no good!" is really small compared to the chance of finding out whether the fountain is magical before I drink 'no good' water. I found three magical fountains!

There was a sink on level 3. There are three things to get from kicking a sink: a black pudding, a ring and a 'dish washer'. I really wanted to gain shock resistance, so I equipped a regular dagger and attacked the black pudding with it. Black puddings divide when steel weapons hit them. Dagger corroded more and more as well, making it do even less damage so I could produce more puddings before they got killed. A total of 8 pudding corpses were produced, and I tinned them all. The very first one I ate made my health feel amplified. Nice! The other 7 tins have later been eaten for 50 nutrition each.

After all three things have been given by a sink, I nearly always convert it to a fountain (dig down on it) so I can blank/dilute (and sometimes uncurse) items with it. I tend to run low on fountains, so I often need as many as I can get.

During my last journey, Eve had become confused from hunger and attacked me. A hyperactive warhorse is dangerous! Fortunately, I had a food ration I could give her. Horses eat them when they are desperately hungry. To prevent Eve from getting hungry in Minetown (she is also a nuisance in shop and temple, as she attacks people I don´t want her to attack), I left her on the level above.

Now I had a long session doing sacrifices (I created many monsters with bag of tricks and a summoning wand), price testing, scroll/spellbook reading, etc. Learned new spells: detect unseen (0% fail), invisibility (70%), cure sickness (0%).

Laura has had frequent intimate moments with incubi, which have resulted in four level-ups. She is now level 15, with 116 HP. I do not want to get higher before I have better gear, more HPs and better offensive spells. So I have left one incubus on DL 3 (created from sink), one randomly generated incubus in minetown got killed by Eve when I had my back turned, and the one created from the minetown sink have been lured down to the level below minetown and left there for now.

I stumbled on a bag of holding in the main dungeon, so now I have one (blessed), which makes me able to carry lots more without being burdened on my expeditions.

I got Giantslayer from sacrifices, but I did not remember that this puts me on a new prayer timer. So when I tried to do a water prayer shortly after, Camaxtli was disappointed in me. Looking up the spoilers, I could see that I had just committed a 'venal sin'. Oh my...

Hm, better use the rest of these monster summoning wand charges, and hope for something big to sacrifice to my god. Got a panther. According to the spoilers, it should not be enough to mollify a god, but it was! I got an ogre lord the summon after (could just lift it to the altar) so then it was no question I was OK with the god.

Oh yeah, before that venal sin business, I got crowned the Envoy of Balance and received Vorpal Blade. I do not like this weapon much, but I certainly do NOT want any monster to use it against me! I did like this to prevent pretty much any chances of that happening:
- I dug a pit and dropped Vorpal Blade in it.
- Rolled a boulder to that square, so the pit got plugged.
- Used a diamond to engrave 'VB! Elbereth' on that square.
- Rolled another boulder onto that square.
That ought to do it, right?

I found my second magic lamp, and this time, rubbing it led to a wish. I thought long and hard about what to wish for. At the time, 3 artifacts had been created in the game, so I had only 1/2 chance to get one if I wished for it. Eye of the Aethiopica would be the ultimate, really. Magic resistance only by carrying it, and I don´t think 'covetous' monsters steal other classes´quest artifacts. I then read about my own quest artifact. It also provides MR when carried (at a greater risk of having it stolen).

My absolute favourite gear combo (for all roles except monk), for getting magic resistance, reflection and three-star cancellation is:
* something that grants MR when carried
* silver dragon scale mail
* robe

This gives me with the very best spellcasting gear, and the amulet slot is free for ESP, life saving or magical breathing.

I actually chose the silver dragon scale mail. Can be seem as a daft choice, considering I do not yet have magic resistance, but I do have an amulet of reflection. Why do this? Well, I aim for my favourite combo and I plan to do the quest now, and can hopefully succeed without needing MR to do it. My quest nemensis is a tough bugger with two powerful melee attacks and a spell per round, but it is vulnerable to the special effects of both my main weapons.

Once I have my quest artifact, I plan to look for a cloak of magic resistance (probably will spend a wish on it if I don´t find one) to keep as backup for the endgame.

On my way back from minetown, Eve had gone feral! Not only to peaceful, but to hostile. I slowed her with a spell, and just took the hits on the way to the upstairs. I plan to get her back later - we have so many memories together...

I recruited Angel the Dog on the way up from the Mines. Mostly to have a way to recognise cursed items when I find them.

Discoveries:

Boots:
Of the seven magical types, I know only levitation boots and elven boots. The cursed combat boots were levitation. They are now uncursed and in my bag of holding.

Potions:
I know most of them, but not polymorph, levitation and gain energy. The latter two are important alchemy ingredients. Gain enery is good for making bigger healing potions, levitation for creating gain level potions (mix it with enlightenment, and there is 2/3 chance of gain level). Smoky potions are monster detection in this game. Have blessed and drunk two, but no djinni so far.

Scrolls:
Here I miss some really good ones: enchant weapon, taming and genocide. I do not know how magic mapping and gold detection look like either, but I suspect I may have them already (I have some unidentified types with base price 100).

Spellbooks:
Miss many major ones. Identify is very high on my wish list (in fact, my next wish is very likely to be one of these).

Rings:
Of the good ones, I know protection, conflict, protection from shape changers and teleportation. I have one that I highly suspect is polymorph (in the right price group, and was found cursed). Wanted: teleport control, polymorph control and free action.

Wands:
I miss the best ones: polymorph, teleportation, death, cancellation, sleep, fire. I have only one with decent offensive power: cold.

Amulet:
I really like the ESP I am wearing (and I like my backup reflection amulet), and I know how life saving looks like.


Laura and Angel have now embarked on their noble quest of securing future research funds for the College of Archeology! She is their only hope.


[Highlight]Laura the Archaeologist, level 15, STR 18/20, DEX 18, CON 18, INT 23, WIS 23, CHA 11, 116 HP, AC -20[/Highlight]


("But, what about the drugs?", you ask. Well, my Laura likes a mushroom trip every once in a while. So I tin most of the yellow/violet fungi I defeat and give her some when I want to celebrate a nice achievement. 'Oh, wow, great stuff!' I wish I had more booze for her as well. Have only found one bottle, and I used it up when I dipped an amethyst in it to ID booze and pitahaya juice (I have named the 'slime mold' fruit pitahaya, because it´s one of my favourite fruits).)
 
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Re: OT: Nethack

Edit: Man, I've been having pretty dang good luck this game. Sokoban had the Amulet of Reflection, and now a "hardware store" in Minetown sold me what turned out to be a Bag of Holding! This probably means I'll die in a really embarrassing way :p

You can tell immediately which items in stores are "special" (bags of holding, magic whistles, magic lamps, etc) if they are more expensive than their normal counterparts. This will save you the trouble of trying to identify them later.

EDIT: My tourist is still alive...he retrieved the luckstone without too much difficulty, and got a unicorn horn and poison resistance along the way. He is Level 10 (automatic searching!). I'll post an update when I've made some more progress.



 
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Re: OT: Nethack

OK, I'm pretty pissed.

I was level 11, doing some fountain dipping and quaffing. Most of my inventory gets cursed. That sucks. OK, make some holy water, at least uncurse my excalibur and my BoH. Resume dipping (dropping BoH first this time).

Water demon. OK, no problem. WTF! Who the heck is "Yeenoghu"? Better run. Oh, swell, he can teleport right next to me. Then he froze me or something with one hit, and killed me like nothing.

I'm pretty mad. I hear about people using fountains all the time at around my level, and I knew about water demons, but never heard anything about some level 10000 douchebag being able to appear and instantly kill me. No more fountains for me, I guess.

52248 jcooper-Val-Dwa-Fem-Law died in The Dungeons of Doom
on level 9 [max 12]. Killed by Yeenoghu, while
helpless. - [118]
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Ouch.

That's a pretty rare occurrence. Demons can summon other demons. In most cases, water demons summon more water demons rather than named demons. FWIW, you're not likely to have that happen again anytime soon.

Have fun with the bones file.

-CG
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Ouch!

Yeah, that bones file will really suck. If it had been Juiblex, at least one has a fighting chance if one has a wand of digging.


If you want to see the odds of this chain of events:

Water demon gets summoned when you do something with a fountain: 1/30.

Such a demon has 1/13 chance each move to do minion summoning.

When it does minion summoning, it´s 95% chance it´s another water demon, and 5% chance it´s a Demon Lord (Yeenoghu or Juiblex).
 
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Re: OT: Nethack

BTW, here are the stats of the mighty Yeenoghu:

Level: 56
Speed: 18 (pretty speedy - like an ant or small dog/cat)
AC: -5
Magic Resistance: 80%
Immune to: fire and poison

He does 4 things every time he is next to you and gets a move (unless he´s scared, or busy teleporting):
* 3d6 + weapon damage attack
* 2d8 + weapon damage attack that causes confusion
* 1d6 + weapon damage attack that causes paralyzation for up to 10 rounds (this needs to pass the cancellation test, so with ### cancellation (wearing mithril or one of the better cloaks) only 2% risk it will get through). Free action also prevents the paralyzing.
* 2d6 magic missile attack

And like most major demons, he has 1/13 chance per turn to do minion summoning, which results in a random major (chaotic) demon 93.1% of the time, a demon lord (i.e. Juiblex) 4.9% of the time and a chaotic demon prince (outside Gehennom, it´s Orcus; in Gehennom, it´s Orcus or Demogorgon) 2% of the time.
 
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Re: OT: Nethack

Nasty monster!

For the first time ever, I'm intentionally choosing not to play as a Barbarian. After reading up on the classes at work, I played my first Ranger today. My first successful D2 character was a Bowazon, so I was looking forward to firing some arrows.

Things started pretty well. A ring store on dlvl2, a very helpful shoplifting pet, and a sink on dlvl1 netted four ring types with two multiples for Searching (bah!) and See Invisible. A bag of tricks on dlvl3, which I like for sacrificing. A floating eye corpse in on dlvl4. Cleared the first level of the Mines looking for armor, but no luck. And then after returning to the dungeon, I somehow managed to get transported to a vault; a first for me! Sadly, I didn't have a way out on my own and a guard approached. Wish I had read up on them and told him my name was Croesus; instead I threw all my money at him so he'd leave me alone. ...He then told me all my money wasn't enough and wrecked me in three turns. :rolleyes:

I read the quest for Rangers is tough, but since I've never seen the Zoo in Sokoban, the quest isn't a big concern for me right now. As it stands, I like Rangers and their cloak of displacement. I'll let you know how I feel after a few YASDs or I forget they don't have poison resistance. :grin:
 
Re: OT: Nethack

(Is your name pronounced TheReedMenace or TheRedMenace?)

That's weird; I've been teleported to vaults a couple times where the guard came, and not knowing about the name trick either, just dropped my money and that was fine.

Did you make sure to loot the money in the vault first? And I hope it doesn't make a difference whether you throw or drop!
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Regarding vaults: If you feel like it, you can just drop your gold when the guard tells you to (there's penalties for lying about your character name for lawfuls and possibly others - I haven't memorized the mechanics because I just always tell the truth to the vault guards because keeping the gold doesn't matter), and then stop back by the vault to retrieve all your (and its) gold once you've stolen a pickaxe from the mines (this won't anger anybody unless you spend a long time hanging out in the vault and the guard comes back). Gold isn't generally tremendously important prior to the minetown priest and the minetown shops (barring a lucky shop spawn pre-mines), so it's almost always possible to retrieve your gold before you'd have a chance to spend it.

-CG
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Darn, just lost my tourist. I had just opened up the Sokoban treasure room full of monsters and had just killed many soldier ants and other monsters. My HP was running low and I faced an elf. He took me down to 8 HP (max 80) and I realized I needed to pray, just thought I would take one more hit to make sure I got healed when I did pray. Guess what happened.

EDIT: Aha, now I see the threshold for HP being considered "low" is 1/7 of max. I had thought it was lower than that for some reason. I won't make that mistake again!
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Darn, just lost my tourist. I had just opened up the Sokoban treasure room full of monsters and had just killed many soldier ants and other monsters. My HP was running low and I faced an elf. He took me down to 8 HP (max 80) and I realized I needed to pray, just thought I would take one more hit to make sure I got healed when I did pray. Guess what happened.

EDIT: Aha, now I see the threshold for HP being considered "low" is 1/7 of max. I had thought it was lower than that for some reason. I won't make that mistake again!


Yes, "low" is less than 1/7 of the max, or less than 6. When you go this low, you will usually hear the howling of the CwnAnnwn, and then you know you can do it (if it is indeed safe to pray, that is).



 
Re: OT: Nethack

You know the old saying:

"5 dead valks, too prideful for barbs, try out a priest"

Ok I don't know how old that saying is

But I'm trying out priests anyway. Boy, is it tough! I'm on my 3rd one and I haven't gotten past like clvl 7. Deaths have all been from getting butt kicked in melee.

Is it normal for them to be quite a bit harder than valks?

Oh, and a question about spellcasting. What is the relationship between my clvl and the level of spellbooks I am able to learn?
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Is it normal for them to be quite a bit harder than valks?

Yes. Barbarians, Valkyries and Samurai are the easiest classes. Then comes (IMO) Knight and Caveman. Rogues and Rangers can often kill from a distance and avoid much trouble with monsters that aren´t fast. The others start out wimpy in combat (but Monk quickly gets better - they have some other traits that complicate things, though) and usually need to rely on pets for fighting a lot longer than the 'combat wombats'. Wizard can be very easy or very hard, depending on the starting gear, and what gear (spellbooks in particular) you find early.


The good things are that you start with a robe and two spells, you have an OK starter weapon and you have holy water.

If undead monsters are a threat, you can often scare them with the #turn command.




Oh, and a question about spellcasting. What is the relationship between my clvl and the level of spellbooks I am able to learn?

Your clvl, your INT, the level of the spellbook and a random roll determines if you are able to read an uncursed spellbook.

Quote from a spoiler:

If the spellbook is uncursed, there is a random chance of the same effects happening as for a cursed spellbook, depending on your INTelligence, your experience level (XL),and the spellbook's level (LVL):

1 - ((INT + 4 +(XL/2) - (2 * LVL)) / 20)

(If you are wearing lenses, the factor of 4 is increased to 6.)

Blessed spellbooks can always be read.


Your chance of actually being able to cast the spell is determined by
1. your gear (best chance is if you have a robe, wear no metal armor items (helm of brilliance is an exception), and no shield. Metal body armor and a shield larger than small are the worst "offenders".
2. your clvl
3. the level of the spell (of course)
4. your skill level in the particular spell school (each role also has a special spell they are extra good with; Priests have Remove Curse as special spell)
5. Your INT (most roles) or your WIS (for Priest, Monk, Healer, Knight and Valkyrie)



 
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Re: OT: Nethack

Ah, alright, thanks. A couple related questions then:

1) Is it worth it to just sit and spam the spells I can cast, then, to raise the skill?

2) Would my starting robe be a decent target for this enchant armor scroll I found?

3) I'm at max skill for mace, and I found a spear in the mines that I'm currently skilling up (I heard they are good to throw). Hopefully those were okay choices... what should I be looking at as far as future weapons?

This is my most successful priest attempt so far... clvl 8 currently, mines are done.

Edit: The poor priest got killed by some nasty wand that a gnome had. Decided to go back to an "easymode" barbarian for an attempt.
Comments:

a) Dwarvish Mattocks are awesome. Barbs can only get them to Skilled, but it's still doing great damage so far.
b) I ran into my first bones level! Actually it seemed to be a combined bones level of several characters; I think I ended up killing 3 ghosts (I play on NAO these days). But the ghost of the above priest was there. So now I have a couple of cursed amulets of reflection :D
c) I continue to have almost absurdly bad luck. Izchak had a blessed lamp (yay!) and I was really excited. Of course the ensuing djinni came out hostile.
d) I got to Mines' End by falling through a trap door; this turned out to be a great move, because guess what is at the stairs: a Jabberwock! Man, those things do crazy damage. I ended up luring it away from the stairs and then reading a ? of teleport.
e) Ate my first wraith corpse :) yay
f) Another bones level! Not mine, this time. Boy howdy was it busy. There was a staggering amount of monsters, including a couple fire giants, those nasty elves, etc. Fortunately I had a healing potion and was eventually able to get to a corridor. Also found a tinning kit earlier in the mines, so I saved some giant meat.
g) The Mines are behind me, clvl 11, hoping I don't get the Oracle level from my last valk...
 
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Re: OT: Nethack

Ah, alright, thanks. A couple related questions then:

1) Is it worth it to just sit and spam the spells I can cast, then, to raise the skill?

2) Would my starting robe be a decent target for this enchant armor scroll I found?

3) I'm at max skill for mace, and I found a spear in the mines that I'm currently skilling up (I heard they are good to throw). Hopefully those were okay choices... what should I be looking at as far as future weapons?

This is my most successful priest attempt so far... clvl 8 currently, mines are done.


Cool! Hang onto that luckstone and keep it blessed. EDIT: OUCH! too late.


1. It can be, but it depends. Your food situation needs to be good (spells eat up quite a bit of nutrition, unless you are a Wizard with INT at least 17) and it might not be smart to be low on power if you soon actually need to do some spellcasting.

Also, just like with weapon skills, you need to decide if spending the skill points is really worth it. There are two reasons for spending skill points on spells: a) to be better at casting them succesfully (and to be able to wear metal armor items and still cast them) and b) to reach the 'skilled' level of the spell, to gain better effect of them. Look here for the effects. For a Priest, I would want to become at least skilled in at least Divination (for the effect of Detect Treasure) and Clerical (for the effect of Remove Curse).

BTW, the skill system works like this: you gain one skill point at every level-up (so there are 29 to be earned in total (the maximum clvl in Nethack is 30)), and these are used for both weapons and magic. It costs one skill point to go from unskilled to basic, an additional two to go from basic to skilled, and an additional three to go from skilled to Expert.

2. I think so (but I am biased - I want robe for all my characters!). Any point of AC you can improve is important early on.

3. Priests are not good with any stackable ranged weapon (can only reach basic with those, so no extra missiles per round (unless you are en elven Priest firing elven arrows from an elven bow)). I have not used spears, but it looks like a good idea if you have a couple of them.

Future weapons:
I would sacrifice until I get a good all-purpose artifact weapon, then use that for the rest of the game (if your god gives you a weapon, you can now train and advance to basic in it, even if you couldn´t before).

I also think you should aim for skilled with polearms. The way to fight with polearms is peculiar (and it took me ages to find out): you (a)pply them to stab an enemy two straight squares from you. As you advance in skill with them, you can reach further (two diagonal squares, a chess knight´s move, and even three straight squares, at skilled)



 
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Re: OT: Nethack

I tried this and I got crushed by some rocks at clvl 1 :p

Going to try again :D
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Grrrr. Things with wands are really unfair.

48270 jcooper-Bar-Hum-Mal-Neu died in The Dungeons of Doom
on level 8 [max 12]. Killed by a bolt of lightning. - [117]
 
Re: OT: Nethack

If you're having a string of bad luck with wands, go for reflection as a first priority. There's nothing wrong with doing sokoban before the mines (which is where most of the wand-wielding early game monsters are, your recent death aside), which gives you a quick 50% chance of an "oR.

-CG
 
Re: OT: Nethack

You people are giving me the itch to play again...I have finals this week though, so I must resist...
 
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