OT: Nethack

Re: OT: Nethack

That is, in fact, a spectacularly good first run. It takes most new haxxors quite a lot of tries to even make 5 digits (and quite a while thereafter until they make it that far).


Regarding prayer: I go into this in much more depth several pages back, but successful prayers protect you from pwnage. Failed prayers do not. In other words, even if you had been protected, you already rolled a failed prayer, so they would've pwned you.

Regarding the big room (assuming you were in the big room and not just a big room): This is probably the easiest non-YASD way to kill a char that's finished both the mines and sokoban before medusa (not counting the quest, which should only very rarely be done before medusa/castle IMO). I highly recommend doing all your fighting on the stairs until it's 90% cleaned out, and retreating very early to heal (early enough that you should still be able to handle whatever follows you).

Regarding having life-saving items in your inventory: Get in the habit of pausing to check your spells/inventory/etc any time you're in any danger. It doesn't cost you a turn, and may remind you of something you'd forgotten.

Regarding jiansonz in general: That is the largest post I've seen in a very, very long time. I was honestly expecting to see "[Continued in next post]" at the bottom.

-CG
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Thanks, CG!

Lesson learned... I didn't retreat till I was in the yellow.

I'm still kinda in shock. I spent way too many hours playing this game the last couple days, and I was pretty attached to my little barb :(

Time for some fast food.
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Code:
2      13353  Vtoraya-Val-Dwa-Fem-Law died in The Dungeons of Doom           
                on level 6.  Killed by a fire ant.                      - [118]

That was infinitely more frustrating. Comments:

1) I now know not to try and dip for Excalibur without a scroll of remove curse positively ID'd (thought I had one, but it was enchant armor).

2) I thought I was going to die in combat one time, so I started doing last-ditch things... including reading an unID'd scroll. Punishment! Then of course my next hit killed the danger... :crazyeyes:

3) Not having poison resistance really sucks. I made sure to be really careful about what I ate, but swarms of killer bees...

4) I don't really like being lawful either. Thought I was going to be the big man with the excalibur; decided it's not worth it.

5) Infravision is pretty cool.

6) No real complaints about Valkyries I guess, other than no poison resistance (and I'm sure a little luck would have helped me out getting that).

7) Owlbears hit pretty hard.

8) I must have worshipped the most heinous god ever. He kept being well-pleased but then not doing what I wanted him to (hi! Cursed rusty weapon here!)

Anyway, the whole game was pretty much frustrating. Made it to almost the same clvl though :p
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Code:
2      13353  Vtoraya-Val-Dwa-Fem-Law died in The Dungeons of Doom           
                on level 6.  Killed by a fire ant.                      - [118]

That was infinitely more frustrating. Comments:

1) I now know not to try and dip for Excalibur without a scroll of remove curse positively ID'd (thought I had one, but it was enchant armor).

2) I thought I was going to die in combat one time, so I started doing last-ditch things... including reading an unID'd scroll. Punishment! Then of course my next hit killed the danger... :crazyeyes:

3) Not having poison resistance really sucks. I made sure to be really careful about what I ate, but swarms of killer bees...

4) I don't really like being lawful either. Thought I was going to be the big man with the excalibur; decided it's not worth it.

5) Infravision is pretty cool.

6) No real complaints about Valkyries I guess, other than no poison resistance (and I'm sure a little luck would have helped me out getting that).

7) Owlbears hit pretty hard.

8) I must have worshipped the most heinous god ever. He kept being well-pleased but then not doing what I wanted him to (hi! Cursed rusty weapon here!)

Anyway, the whole game was pretty much frustrating. Made it to almost the same clvl though :p

Ouch. Fire ants are nasty.

1) I sometimes do anyway, if I´m feeling lucky (odds are on my side)

2) I have never been able to survive when I am getting this desperate. Have never been punished either.

3) Ouch. Sometimes you don´t get lucky with non-poisonous monster corpses that can give poison resistance. My top 3 for getting it looks something like this:
* unicorn
* centipede
* black naga hatchling
One time I didn´t have until I got to Fort Ludious, where there was a green dragon.

4) I like Excalibur, mostly for the searching ability.

5) Yep.

6) They have great weapons from the start, and the highly enchanted shield means that even if you only find some basic ring mail or so, and common boots/helm, you can quickly be down in negative AC.

Too bad orcs can´t be valkyries - that would have been a tough woman, with both cold + poison resistance from the start!

7) Yep, and they grab you too.

8) He must have thought you only had "minor" trouble, then. Or you had low luck.



 
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Re: OT: Nethack

List with #monster-abilities?

I think the command #monster is very interesting, as its effect is determined by what type of creature you are polymorphed into. But I have not been able to find a complete (or even good) list of all the possibilities here. Do you kow of any?

Here are the effects I have read about or tried myself:

wererat/-jackal/-wolf (in animal form) - summon help
dragon - use breath weapon (type depends on what color you are)
(I suppose a red naga or a winter wolf can do the same)
nymph - steal things
unicorn - "use" your horn (same effect as if you apply one in inventory)
gremlin (if you are standing on a square with a fountain/sink) - multiply (create a pet)

Any other you know of?
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Wish I could help, jian, but I'm a Netn00b. The only ones I knew were the were-forms and dragon, the latter only because... it just happened to me!

Your progress has been a great read so far. So much so, in fact, that it's drawn me back in!

Which leads me to question time. I'm running with the best luck I've ever had so far, and I'm in a dilemma as to what to do next.

The pertinent information is that I'm a human Barbarian (the only class with which I'm familiar) sitting peacefully in Minetown. Found two aligned altars (Dlvl1 and Minetown itself), no successful sacrifices so far. Also, my battle-axe just rusted in the previous Mines level; my only backup weapon is a blessed short sword, completely untrained. I found an uncursed clear potion & an uncursed magic lamp quite early, so I figured the smartest thing to do was to bless the potion, then the lamp, and see if I could get a wish. Success! Taking CG's sound advice for early game wishes, I wished for a +2 blessed GDSM; my AC's now at -7. (it was a nice touch when I was morphed temporarily into a dragon and the armor fused to my skin for decent protection!).

I found a bones file in Minetown and ended up with two more uncursed clear potions AND an uncursed magic lamp, so again, I figured it best to bless the former to bless the latter. Now that I have another blessed magic lamp, I really don't know what to do with it. Since I've just used my #prayer, sacrificing corpses to get a Cleaver seems like it might take a long time. My thoughts for the lamp are:

1) a weapon of some sort. I'm not confident in the blessed short sword, but again, I'm a noob so that's just a hunch/gut feeling.
2) wait 'til after Sokoban to see what my reward might be. If it's not the AoR, seems like that'd be the wish to make... maybe?

What's your take on it, oh gurus of the mighty Hack? :worship:

And there's something else that's killing me, figuratively of course. This is about as far as I've ever made it (on attempt #18! SOOO noob), and I've never had any of my inventory IDed. What is the best/simplest method for early-game ID for barbs?
 
Re: OT: Nethack

I'd recommend wishing for either blessed rustproof +2 speed boots or gauntlets of power (probably the former).

It wouldn't be a bad idea to wait until after sokoban so you can figure out whether you're getting "oR or the bag, because "oR is a very gg wish if you didn't find one, but it's a lot easier to find randomly than speed boots or gauntlets of power.

Cleaver is gg enough that you don't really need to blow a wish on another weapon prior to the castle, though it is advisable to switch to #twoweapon before gehennom (it really sucks to fight a cursing monster with a two handed weapon).

If you decide to wait until after sokoban, remember that a magic lamp never runs out of oil - I often like to keep one around as a permanent light source (though I wouldn't actually recommend that as a long term option until after you've got a wand of wishing and you're fully kitted out).

Regarding ID'ing: Price-id the identify scroll (and hopefully the enchants). Engrave-id wands. Beyond that, make a whole bunch of holy water (dip potions in fountains to turn them into water, put all the water on an aligned altar and pray on top of it) then bless your id scrolls, hold all your unid items, cross your fingers and start reading hoping for the 20% chance of id'ing everything.

Regarding saccing at altars: It only takes a couple corpses until you work off the prayer timer. You'll get the message "You have a feeling of reconciliation". If you've got more food than you need, sit at the altar until you get cleaver. Just be sure to keep yourself a reserve. Also, on a related topic, don't convert the mine altar. The priest will be unhappy. On another related topic, if you #chat with the priest and give him 400-600 times your level in gold (and this is most of your visible gold, so if you have lots and lots, drop or bag the extra before #chatting), he'll give you (more) protection. This is very good. Do it whenever you have 400 times your level in gold (to the point that you should immediately stop killing things on dlvl 22, hike back to dlvl 2 then down to minetown, give him some gold, then hike back to dlvl 22 to continue things).

-CG
 
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Re: OT: Nethack

2) I thought I was going to die in combat one time, so I started doing last-ditch things... including reading an unID'd scroll. Punishment! Then of course my next hit killed the danger... :crazyeyes:

You can do some fun things with that iron ball:
-wield it as a weapon (it's pretty formidable)
-throw it at things (and follow along)
-polymorph into a Rust Monster and have a snack

Other things to do as a monster (#monster)



 
Re: OT: Nethack

@TheReadMenace: if your battle-axe is only "rusty", not "very rusty" or "thoroughly rusty", it is probably still much much better than your short sword. Each stage of rusting adds a -1 penalty to the damage (maybe to the To Hit as well, I don´t know).

As for the wish, my advice is you do sokoban and see if you get amulet of reflection or bag of holding, and wish for the other.

...or for speed boots.
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Grrrr! What is with this "You fall into a pit of poison spikes. The poison is fatal. You die." business?? That's cheating... and I was doing so well... even had a blessed scroll of genocide :( :(
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Report on Laura #2 - All About Eve


Annoying werewolf in Minetown with a wand of digging. Hey, I can´t have a hole in the middle of town! Ah, boulders to the left. I brought one, but had to dig in some walls to make room for the boulder pushing. Without thinking (idiot!) I kicked a door down, and a watchman saw it. So now they are all hostile. Not only are they dangerous (at least the captain is), but I don´t want to be seen as a murderer. Now I have to move on from here, and build up Missy somewhere else. Too bad I had unleashed her. She was now cut off from me by a watchman. Retreat, and Missy follows pretty well. Hm, she´s doing a good job on this watchman, and the stethoscope says he´s almost dead. Get him! Oh no, were you this hurt, Missy? I had a sad feeling for a moment.

Guess I´ll move down some more, and hope to get new pets.

DL 8 (mines, 1 below town)
Oh my, here´s the leocrotta the dwarf summoned with a scroll earlier! It died in two hits, but managed to make me half dead in the stream of attacks in between my hits.

"Here, little pony, have a carrot!"
I´ll name her Eve. I hope I am better at keeping her alive than my cats. Here´s a third cat, btw. Have some tripe. I´ll name her Lizzie.

Oops, here´s that annoying werewolf again, and it made a hole here, too. While I was eating a corpse, Eve stumbled into the hole (despite the leash).

The dwarf that summoned the leocrotta had a mithril coat. Lizzie says it´s not cursed, so I put it on. Nice AC now, but my failure % on healing spell now plummeted to 93...

Fought an elf, too, and it had a +1 elven cloak. AC -9 now.

Here´s an angry watch captain! So that´s why I couldn´t see him earlier - he had fallen down the hole in town. I left the room, and he did not seem to find me later.

DL 9 (mines, 2 below town)
Found Eve again, and leashed her. She began slaughtering gnomes, dwarves and bugbear. Took some damage, though, so I decided to remove my mithril armor so I can cast healing, and play on with AC -3 instead.

Eve actually ate a violet fungus! Let´s hope she does not hallucinate and take me for a carrot...

Eve is now a big bad level 9 warhorse with 70 hp.

Watch captain has a silver sabre! Huge battle with me and the watch captain dancing around Eve. I heal Eve maybe six times during the fight. Eve won, but with only 15 HPs left. Phew!

Back in town. Two watch guards ate it vs. Eve. Then she attacked the priest of Camaxtli. "Easy, big girl, that is not the enemy" (not yet, anyway, hehe...)
I dragged her out of the temple, unleashed her, went back inside, closed the door and locked.

Yep, stethoscope + healing spell + strong pet is so good right now that metal armor certainly is out. I found +1 gloves, +2 jackboots and studded leather. Eventually, I could get Eve to kill both Possogroene the Minetown delicatessen storekeep and Annotok back on DL 3. "No, no, I am not fighting you, I am just healing this "little" horsie that looks a little worse for wear..."

The general store owner in Minetown had a lot of cash, and I earned thousands from selling diamond, emeralds, etc. Enough to cough up the 8k I needed for two rounds of priestly protection. Jackpot on the first: -4 AC! (it varies 2-4). So Laura´s AC is now -14 without any metal armor pieces.

One level-up (to 11) and two 'golden glow' boons from prayers on Camaxtli´s altar led to my current 85 HP. I have IDed all three healing potion variants. I have 1+3+1 of them in my storage pile in the temple. Still no way to permanently Elbereth-engrave that square, so some of it has been stolen, twice, by unicorns. :rant: I usually lock the door to the temple, but those buggers can teleport in there...

Got Cleaver from sacrificing, and much later, Frost Brand. Yay, that´s one of the best! Of course I kept the watch captain´s silver saber, so now I am #twoweaponing Frost Brand and a silver saber. Basic skill with longsword and twoweapon. That goes a long way.

Cleaned up everything I said I should. Got the mimic of the mines end. Found no luckstone there, but didn´t look that hard because I had already found one two floors above this level. I quickly realized there must be a polymorph trap on the level, because I met a giant mummy (it left a corpse that I quickly tinned - ate the tin later to bring STR up to 18/03) and my ESP picked up a balrog further inside. I fought him (balrogs are wimpy and slow for their high level). There was also a skeleton and it caused Eve to lose the extra speed I had given her earlier. I fixed that back in minetown.

Some more spellbooks found: slow monster (0% fail), detect food (0% fail) and clairvoyance (64% fail). This is nice, an easy spell I can practice on, to make the higher level one easier to cast. Divination is where I really want to excel later. I think I can get to 0% with all divination spells even if I do not train all the way to Expert. The highest level spells in the school are detect treasure (lvl 4) and the spell archeologists have a substantial bonus with, magic mapping (lvl 5). Those are certainly two of my favourites. And let´s not even start about how good it is to have 0% fail on identify. :whistling:

Slow monster has already proven its usefulness. Cockatrice in minetown! And I had no lizard corpse or anything acidic, and I had recently prayed. I threw a poisonous dart at it, but it seemed not to be affected by the poison. Wand of striking then! First charge missed, second charge hit, then the wand was empty. Wand of MM! It hit four times, but the damned thing was still standing, and that wand was now also empty. Then I remembered I had just learned slow monster. With my vastly superior speed, I could now defeat it in melee without giving it any chance to attack. I made extra sure I was indeed wearing gloves, picked up the corpse, went to the temple and sacrificed it.
 
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Re: OT: Nethack

I started a character today. I always play random class in this game and I drew a tourist. My NH client doesn't let me specify the name of my character (it's always my Linux username), so I'll just call him Tourist.

Level 1 - Found a +3 ring mail. Sweet. Killed lots of jackals with darts.

Level 2 - Found a mace, then found an armor shop. There was an obvious small mimic there, which I lured out of the shop and killed with darts. Those things give a lot of experience early on! I loaded up on armor to get an AC of -1. A hobbit with a wand of striking spawned on the level, but I was able to kill it and take the wand for myself.

Level 3 - Found the entrance to Gnomish Mines and decided to go down there right away because of my favorable AC. My pet and I proceeded to run rampant through the Mines, killing dozens of gnomes and dwarves.

Mine Town (GM Level 6) - There was a friendly altar next to a food shop with an icebox. I sacrificed all the corpses I could lift but it was not enough to get me anything beyond 4-L clovers. I killed several hill orcs and Woodland-elves. ID'ed the scrolls of identify, remove curse, and destroy armor.

Gnomish Mines, Level 7 - Two giant spiders attacked me near the stairs, but I blinded them with the camera and killed them with darts. I considered eating the corpses for a chance at poison resist, but decided against it. Too risky, and camera + ranged attack should give me a good shot at surviving most poison attacks. ID'ed a potion of hallucination by kicking it. I also acquired a dwarvish mattock, which will replace the mace once I can get Basic skill level on it.

That's the story so far...
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Glad you've decided to join us, azn_a!

Sigh. Just lost my 4th >10k point character. This time an elf I was fighting read a scroll and I was surrounded by deadly beasties. I wouldn't really consider any of my deaths so far super YASD-ish... though I suppose more experience will help me to know what sort of fights to engage and where (for example, if I had been in a narrow corridor at the time, I wouldn't have been fully surrounded).
 
Re: OT: Nethack

Glad you've decided to join us, azn_a!

Sigh. Just lost my 4th >10k point character. This time an elf I was fighting read a scroll and I was surrounded by deadly beasties. I wouldn't really consider any of my deaths so far super YASD-ish... though I suppose more experience will help me to know what sort of fights to engage and where (for example, if I had been in a narrow corridor at the time, I wouldn't have been fully surrounded).

Sounds like it was a cursed scroll of create monster. That is really bad luck. Did you try to engrave Elbereth? (with a fast method, your fingers is always available) That can sometimes create an opening so you can reach a corridor.


I am always nervous before I have any good 'fleeing tools' with a new character.


Your other death, in the poisonous spiked pit trap illustrates the importance of getting poison resistance early. There are so many things that may not be merely poisonous (causing you to lose some HP and STR (until you can cure the loss)) but deadly poisonous. Monsters with poison attacks, Mordor Orcs with poisonous weapons, pit traps, even door/chest traps.
I once died vs a wererat that summoned help, among the help was a rabid rat. It bit me, its bite was poisonous and that poison was deadly. An extremely unlikely chain of events, but it can happen.

I rarely enter Gnomish Mines before I have poison resistance. There are a lot more traps there than in the main dungeon, thus a lot more spiked pit traps that may be poisonous. And if I do have to enter them without poison resistance, I really want at least a leashed pet and automatic searching.



 
Re: OT: Nethack

Totally--I decided after that pit trap incident, no mines before poison resistance. In my current game, I found a quivering blob and was really excited, but alas, no corpse. I'll keep plugging away though.

I've decided I really like dwarf valkyries, and I think I'll stick with them until I get far enough to satisfy myself (or get bored). Barbarians are probably better, but the fact that they start off with poison resist encourages some bad habits, I think.

Edit: I AM SUCH A NOOB. So I just now learned about the #enhance command...
 
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Re: OT: Nethack

Sounds like it was a cursed scroll of create monster. That is really bad luck. Did you try to engrave Elbereth? (with a fast method, your fingers is always available) That can sometimes create an opening so you can reach a corridor.

I usually make sure I'm standing on stairs when I'm reading un'IDed scrolls. That way, if it is a cursed scroll of create monster, I can escape easily.

I rarely enter Gnomish Mines before I have poison resistance. There are a lot more traps there than in the main dungeon, thus a lot more spiked pit traps that may be poisonous. And if I do have to enter them without poison resistance, I really want at least a leashed pet and automatic searching.

Good point about the spiked pits - the camera + darts will not be able to defend against those. Fortunately my tourist found a ring of levitation, I will probably wear that as I progress thru the mines.



 
Re: OT: Nethack

Thank you, CG and jian, for the responses yesterday, but I blew it almost immediately. I recovered a wand of create monster from the bones file, so I stuck around Minetown to see if I could sacrifice corpses for a Cleaver. I ended up being attacked by something that said it made me feel ill. I automatically assumed it was something lethal and #prayed... but it wasn't fatal, just something possibly associated to confusion. I vomited, ended up weak from hunger, and mistakenly ate an old corpse which gave me food poisoning. No more #prayer = YASD.

In order to get back into the swing of things, I spent all my free time at work reading the wiki and the spoiler for IDing items. Good reads, all of it.

So when I played for a half hour today, I went in super confident in my early-game knowledge. My pet found (ahem... stole) a bag of holding on dlvl3, and I was thinking my good luck had returned. Then a single stupid keystroke later I ended up equipping a known cursed item. :doh: #Prayer failed to remove it so far. I'll pick it up again when I regain the mental aptitude needed to stay away from the numerous stupid mistakes. ...It still usually doesn't help, though...
 
Re: OT: Nethack

IF you're feeling confident that you can survive a stream of water moccasins and/or water demon(s) (for me it's generally clvl ~5-7 on melee chars, lower if I've got an escape item), you can remove curses by dipping the appropriate item in a fountain. This will, of course, do any water-related effects (rusting) to whatever you're dipping, but most wearable cursed equipment isn't stuff you're going to want anything to do with.

If you've got a nymph nearby, you can also stash all your regular equipment upstairs/downstairs and then let the nymph steal the cursed gear. This, of course, means you have to deal with whatever the RNG throws at you for wandering around the dungeon nearly naked.

-CG
 
Re: OT: Nethack

So my current character is doing quite well - clvl 10 valk with Excalibur and a Large Cat.

Just thought I would share this "close call":

On Sokoban level 1, I was lucky enough to be attacked by a cave spider, and its corpse gave me poison resistance.

On Sokoban level 3, "The Uruk-hai shoots a poisoned arrow! You seem unaffected by the poison."

Whew! :cloud9:

Edit: Man, I've been having pretty dang good luck this game. Sokoban had the Amulet of Reflection, and now a "hardware store" in Minetown sold me what turned out to be a Bag of Holding! This probably means I'll die in a really embarrassing way :p
 
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