Guide: WS K Amazon

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Whether you would lie, or just choose not to see the difference, I don't really know or care. My many varied L90+ cowazons on battlenet are long deleted, my current SP cowazon is only L77 and is stagnating because I simply cannot find a Titans (which I require for proper cowing happiness), but she does have a Thunderstroke and Demon Limb. I don't think the difference would be very obvious on Nightmare cows, cause of the lower level and cause they more or less just evaporate, so I'd need to get her up to Hell cows. Then maybe I'll bother to make a video and youtube illustrating it, and link people to it, cause I'm tired of this particular argument which never seems to go away...

Anyway, this is basically OT for this thread since it isn't a cowing thread.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

If you want me to prove you that LF is autohit, I could do that before next week. For a build where LF is the main skill it seems very relevant.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

stephan said:
If you want me to prove you that LF is autohit, I could do that before next week. For a build where LF is the main skill it seems very relevant.
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The confusion which I believe keeps this argument popping up is the difference between LF triggering (which is automatic) and the javelin actually hitting and piercing to then allow the possibly of subsequent LF triggers. Using "autohit" LF doesn't magically make your Javelin pierce the maximum number of times. In 8 player cows this is extremely relevant. In 1 player WSK, not so much. So like I said, OT for this thread in my opinion.

There was one cowazon guide which corroborates what I am saying. But like I said, guides are just words, and can be wrong either way. The only way to prove it is to do it.



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

You've already noticed twice that this is kinda OT here so maybe taking this discussion to a seperate thread would be the thing to do. Someone like RTB will usually show up and know exactly how things work. This thread here is fat enough already and no matter which way this comes out, it has no impact on the build. Simply because even if you did need AR to pierce, there aren't enough skillpoints left to add to penetrate in meaningful amounts.

Actually there is one thing you can do, obviously: If you do need more AR, just get a blessed aim merc instead of whatever kind it was that I recommended here.

Swordslash said:
New question -- ever considered a non-melee merc? I'm thinking about the ever-annoying Oblivion Knights whose IM kills mercs dead. Act 2 and Act 5 mercs hit melee, so they'd be dead... rogues are fragile and stay at a distance, but how about act 3 mercs? Their offense is crap, but can they hold up as an IM-resistant tank? Hmm...
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Definetly not worth it. Especially if you use insight on the act 2 merc. Personally, if I lose my merc once every 10 runs, that's a lot. OKs conveniently happen in big packs so LF just obliterates them. Failing all else, take your merc's weapon away while you clear out the OK levels.

Of course you can play without any merc at all, like Gohanman always does /did, thus, you could also play with a rogue or act 3 merc, but they really don't add much to the build.



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Nightfish said:
You've already noticed twice that this is kinda OT here so maybe taking this discussion to a seperate thread would be the thing to do. Someone like RTB will usually show up and know exactly how things work.
Click to expand...
The link I posted credited RTB, but I'll post some videos later this week. It's not so difficult to prove either way.

Actually there is one thing you can do, obviously: If you do need more AR, just get a blessed aim merc instead of whatever kind it was that I recommended here.
Click to expand...
There is a bug with BA and Penetrate that one overwrites the other. I believe it was Penetrate doing the overriding and since you can't get Pierce without Penetrate, getting a BA merc wouldn't help much.

I'll shut up now.



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

stephan said:
There is a bug with BA and Penetrate that one overwrites the other. I believe it was Penetrate doing the overriding and since you can't get Pierce without Penetrate, getting a BA merc wouldn't help much.
Click to expand...

He, this I didn't know, although it seems to be irrelevant now anyway.

I actually missed that link you posted earlier. Good info there, certainly good enough for me.



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Yea, good point. I changed that too. In the future I will try to avoid numbers and just say "Sum of all skill points spent so far" or something like that.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

stephan said:
There is a bug with BA and Penetrate that one overwrites the other. I believe it was Penetrate doing the overriding and since you can't get Pierce without Penetrate, getting a BA merc wouldn't help much.
Click to expand...

It's the other way round, Blessed Aim overrides Penetrate.

Sorry for the OT, I just wanted to correct this :whistling:



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I've started playing SP seriously (bnet previously), and after 100+ NM meph runs, I think I have enough gear to start some more characters. My meteorb is in act 5 nm, so it shouldn't be too long before I'm doing hell meph runs.

Since I've never played a javazon, that's high on my list. I don't need a zon that can run the WSK since I will make a fishymancer (it will be my third one), so would you still recommend this build over the others for someone who hasn't played a javazon? I was also considering an LF/strafe hybrid (probably WWS, if I find one), but as you stated somewhere, that involves splitting the build's focus and cutting the effectiveness.

I've got several nice rare javelins and several of the normal and exceptional unique bows.

So, I guess my question is this: is this build strong everywhere else, or is it really only most effective in the WSK?
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

LF/FA amazons really are great for running pretty much anything, at least for MF purposes. The only hindering factor is the lack of Teleport, but static maps and a decent FRW help with that.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Lightning Fury is one of the strongest mob-clearing skills, perhaps the strongest for the largest mobs... All-out Javazon makes the best cow runner IMO, and that's what I always used her for. With Hybrid, you'll lose about 25% of your synergized LF damage to the FA skills, so that's kind of non-ideal for cows in that sense. But like they said it lets you kill almost anything. I figure she'll be like a CL/FO sorc who is stronger at packs, but can't teleport... Oh, and I'd definitely try to get your hands on a Titans for any LF zon at all.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I wouldn't overestimate the lack of teleport - it's not as important. This zon can easily get to 1300 life, while maintaining 75% CTB and very good resistances, without counting charms. On top of that Amazon's FHR and FBR start at much much better rates than sorceress'. LF/FA zon can easily get to 3-frame block and 6-frame hit recovery, something a sorceress can only dream of.

On top of that FA freezes enemies, instead of chilling them. That's a huge advantage over FO, plus FA does more damage. I would judge (CL + 1 synergy) = (LF + 1 synergy).[EDIT: Actually what I meant to say was that LF is at least as good. It's really better, as pointed out in the discussion below.] More or less. I find this zon is safer than an equivalent sorc (more life + better recovery/block rates). The only thing that teleport would add here is transportation speed, it's not really needed for safety.

--Greebo

EDIT: @Stephan: From what I read above I thought people were asking about running Fishyzon elsewhere, which is why is I was addressing those issues, but perhaps it was a different conversation altogether. Have you tried adding a lot of freeze time on FA? You might like it much more if it freezes for 3-4 seconds in Hell... I do :p
 
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Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

If you run the WSK why would you need teleport anyway?

Greebo said:
I would judge (CL + 1 synergy) = (LF + 1 synergy). More or less.
Click to expand...
IMO (and I have played both CL/FO as LF/FA), LF beats CL with 1 synergy + maxed mastery by a large amount. I prefer FO over FA though.



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I don't think there is any way for CL to beat even an unsynergised LF if they are both on similar levels. Even if you went pure lightning, the LF part of the zon would still be stronger against packs of monsters. While your first CL is still bouncing around you've probably fired a couple of LFs already.

Well, FO has the advantage of doing quite a bit more damage than FA if aimed right. It's not about damage displayed, this is about actually killing stuff and how long that takes.

Teleport... Unless you run Mephisto or LK for runes I see no need for that. As far as that is concerned all areas are pretty much the same, WS K, Pit, etc... Okay, without teleport it takes you perhaps 5 extra seconds to reach the area. Big deal.

Overall I prefer the zon to my sorcs for running areas. Of course my sorcs can do it as well, that's not the issue. A dozen of my chars can run the WS K (and therefore everything else as wel) at somewhat similar speed.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Well, I suppose I meant to say LF at least as good as CL, anytime. That was enough, in the sense that it was all I needed to make my argument, I did not mean to imply that CL is as powerful as LF (which of course I did; I'll blame my poor English skills... why not). --G.

EDIT: @NF
Yes, well, I'm a mathematician. If it's enough for the sake of my argument to say 1,000,000 is at least as big as 3, I say that. Professional flaw...
 
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Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Well, if you say it that way around it's true, but it's quite the understatement. It's like saying Mike Tyson will probably kick a toddler's *** any day of the week.
 
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