Gambling...does the Act # matter ?

[omegamann]

Argh...

I should just leave this alone...Hi I'm a dead horse please beat me !! But here I go...

The more I read the more I understand that what happened is mathamaticly improbable based on known and proven game mechanics.

For Cen or anyone asking, I gambled it, no two doubts about it. My stash of gold was full (Maxed for my Clvl at that time)and I was holding a ton of gold on my char. and I don't like to see even cyber money go to waste (In EQ I was the guild trader and treasurer for Talisman) and as I die more often then I should me thinks I would have lost all of that gold, I figured I would go a gamblin instead of padding the bank of Atma.

My original intention was to try for some type of a better weapon for my merc Hazade. I found an axe with great stats but he is a poleclass and he can't use it.

As I stated earlier I had never seen the graphic that was on Gheed's screen and as it was not over the top spendy so I gave it a shot. I thought I was on a lucky roll at 2 unique items and that my luck most certianly had something to do with the MF number I was sporting at the time (200+ not crazy but the most I have ever had). I have since read that MF numbers have no bearing on gambling.

In my original post I asked about open wounds...I was wrong there the axe I found has the open wound stat not the Impaler.

RTB, if I were to send this item to you in an Atma stash would you be able to dupe detect it or something ? Or am I just spinning my wheel's ? I can never prove that it was not gambled no matter how hard I try I guess.

To everyone else, doubt if you must, improbable is not impossible. I played a bit last night...yha I got it bad...Elsix was winking at me to come gamble and I told him to F@@k off... Im goin to Vegas !!

All this will fade away or blow over, I am a passionate person and I apprieciate the passion in many of you for defending your legitness and the want for all who visit here to meet your high standards.

I won't attempt to participate in the events here or trade these items. I was looking forward to giving away stuff but I can't take the beating I may have to endure if I try. :shocked:

Cheers

JP

 

[Flayed One]

Kabal - If you say so. You may be right, but I belive no one would even notice it.

So what you're trying to tell me is that there is a .00000001% chance that you can gamble a griffin's eye, but the chance that this guy is mistaken is somehow less? Even if there was a 1% chance this guy was mistaken, that's ten million times more likely. The good money is on the "mistake" proposition. Before you comment on my knowledge of statistics... do your homework. Have it graded.

I never stated I find it more likely that he gambled it due to a bug then he found it and is mistaken. Even more - I stated a few times that in my oppionion he HAVE found it and IS mistaken. before you comment on me not doing my homework - do yours.

And by the way... I have :wink3: .

 

[RTB]

RTB, if I were to send this item to you in an Atma stash would you be able to dupe detect it or something ? Or am I just spinning my wheel's ? I can never prove that it was not gambled no matter how hard I try I guess.

The Ilvl is all that can sensibly be used for checking where or how it spawned, the fingerprint is too random. I'm curious about that graphic though, which of these was it?

 

[Shagsbeard]

If we take "I gambled it, I'm sure of it" as a truth, then our only conclusion can be that you are playing a different game than we are. If anyone else has access to your computer, they may have modded it without telling you. You seem to be a very rational type, and perhaps can understand that we would have seen this long ago if it were possible. As a community the number of corronets gambled by all of us together must be simply staggering. It's in the nature of this forum to reject people's extrodinary claims, since there seems to be a common drive for people to come in and make them. I recall one guy coming here and claiming to have had two Chams drop in the same gaming session. That's the kind of thing that "could happen" but clearly didn't. In order for our claims to be believed, they have to withstand the same analysis that yours have. Unfortuantly, there is no possible way to prove any claims we make.

That would be a great mod by the way, one that the community would embrace. If someone could make a mod that would allow an exact playback of the last minute of play on someone elses computer so the results claimed could be independantly verified, I'd kiss their feet (after I donated my kidney to their favorite charity).

 

[omegamann]

The Ilvl is all that can sensibly be used for checking where or how it spawned, the fingerprint is too random. I'm curious about that graphic though, which of these was it?

It's like a police lineup !! The coronet in the middle did it !!

I am pretty sure that it was the "Coronet" graphic, It is a stretch to remember for sure, please understand I know uniques are rare but I was totally clueless that this damn thing was uber rare so I said neat and kept gambling I was more interested in a good weapon for my merc.. To the best of my recollection it was roughly 30k to gamble it.

JP

 

[Flayed One]

Such a mod would be a great thing, but it requires recording of some kind. I don't think the game have a recording system. Seems we should start recording videos of our play just in case...:wink3:

I still don't find gambling it that much unlikely..well...maybe it is that much unlikely...it's just not impossible... if its 1/10^-10(the probability of gambling griffons) then it's only ~10^7 tries to reach 1% chance of suceeding. While it's still a lot (10 000 000) Im sure people on these forums have gambled enough coronets to get that 1% chance. Also there are many more items which would make us frown upon someone who claimed he gambled them with a lvl x character. Come on, we all have beat that probability many times. Just run hell baal a bit, till he drops a rare item, and then find a probability to find this specific rare item off of him.

A drop/gamble mod is also probable, so checking for it is a good idea.

-edit- a coronet costs ~158k gold at lvl 88 to gamble, so it should cost around 100k at lvl 70. It might be a clue?...

 

[jjscud]

-edit- a coronet costs ~158k gold at lvl 88 to gamble, so it should cost around 100k at lvl 70. It might be a clue?...

Yeah, I just checked with a lvl 58 character, even for her, the Coronet was over 100K.

 

[RTB]

It's like a police lineup !! The coronet in the middle did it !!

So the Coronet is guilty of corruption. I convict it to 10 years of gathering dust in an empty ATMA stash. :hang:

Shagsbeard: That's one impossible mod, with even worse odds than the Griffons from gambling (with a Clvl 74 char).

 

[Shagsbeard]

I know... but I can dream can't I.

 

[Fluffballer]

Do all mods need a shortcut to run, like the RWM?

 

[Cormallon]

Do all mods need a shortcut to run, like the RWM?

No. Only the text mods need that. More sophisticated mods change the mpq files.

For all listening: Please note that nobody accused omegamann of duping. Duping was mentioned by those trying do point out that the item could be legitly gambled. We just doubt (and after seeing the printout knew it couldn't be) that the Griffons was gambled by that character. Nobody said it was hacked or such. There are a lot of possible explanations: finding it, pick it up without noticing and just seeing it first time after gambling. Some mistake in characters who got it. Something not being in order with the game install without him noticing (yes, that happened before with shared computers), something he installed without knowing it would change the drop mechanics. And at last there are item packs... but that possibility comes last, when all the others fail.

 

[Darkwell1]

It's like a police lineup !! The coronet in the middle did it !!

I am pretty sure that it was the "Coronet" graphic, It is a stretch to remember for sure, please understand I know uniques are rare but I was totally clueless that this damn thing was uber rare so I said neat and kept gambling I was more interested in a good weapon for my merc.. To the best of my recollection it was roughly 30k to gamble it.

JP

The 30k would make it appear as a glitch from the start. I don't think any item gambled in hell is that cheap. Glitches do happen. My wife gambled a pair of magic boots with 39% mf, where 35% mf is the max. I saw the boots myself. And, 2 yrs or so ago I had a pair of war travs drop in a2 normal, can't happen, but did.

 

[XDoomasX1]

The 30k would make it appear as a glitch from the start. I don't think any item gambled in hell is that cheap. Glitches do happen. My wife gambled a pair of magic boots with 39% mf, where 35% mf is the max. I saw the boots myself. And, 2 yrs or so ago I had a pair of war travs drop in a2 normal, can't happen, but did.

OMG darkwell is haxor:laugh:

seriously...thing's happen, and IMO this guy is clean for sure. He could say "oh yeah it wasn't gambeled, it was droped in pits, sorry my mistake" but he didnt, so lets disscus things that coused the glitch instead of saying "thats impossible, impossible I tell ya":thumbsup:

 

[Jude]

I'm glad you came back, omegamann.

Jude

 

[jjscud]

so lets disscus things that coused the glitch instead of saying "thats impossible, impossible I tell ya":thumbsup:

Unfortunately a glitch is just that, they don't generally have a source. What we can do is move forward. If omegamann isn't trading or mping (and isn't going to) then everything should be good to go.

If he would like the possibility to trade and or MP, should he delete the item, keep it and assume he's mistaken, or sell it to gheed and get his 35K back? Or set it aside and keep it unused but as a glitch trophey.

Personally I would be fine with returning it to gheed, telling Gheed he must have been mistaken and getting the money back.

@omegamann: Actually there is one helpful thing you can do. Take your char, refresh Gheed's gambling window a few times and find another Coronet and check the price. A normal price would definately place this in the glitch/mistake category rather than some unknown mod.

 

[FlimFlan]

OMG darkwell is haxor:laugh:

seriously...thing's happen, and IMO this guy is clean for sure. He could say "oh yeah it wasn't gambeled, it was droped in pits, sorry my mistake" but he didnt, so lets disscus things that coused the glitch instead of saying "thats impossible, impossible I tell ya":thumbsup:

I would tend to agree here. Almost all cheaters have backed away quickly by changing their claim when confronted with the game mechanics. Either that or they just disappear completely. We should give him the benefit of the doubt, especially since he has made no attempt to trade or do anything else with a questionable item.

If someone is a known hacker, but does nothing to interact with anyone else on this forum in the way of gameplay, is he/she not allowed to be a member of the community? No tips on hacking, no discussing it, no attempts to trade? There was such a member many years ago, but he was not banned from the SPF. He played the game the way he enjoyed it, but it was his game.

 

[Ohomemgrande1]

If he would like the possibility to trade and or MP, should he delete the item, keep it and assume he's mistaken, or sell it to gheed and get his 35K back?

I'd vote to personalize the item and keep it as a truly unique find. If it is a confirmed glitch well...it was still done in-game, obtained, using known game mechanics i.e. he didn't take advantage of a known bug.

Granted, if you want to trade, both parties need to agree on terms and some people might not want to trade with omegamann because of this. If the trade is that important to you, I guess you do what is requested...Of course this just opens another can of worms that you can visit in the "Taint related question, what to do" thread.

Still, I haven't seen any good explanations to the comment on Arreat Summit Gambling page (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/gambling.shtml) which implies that this sort of thing is possible.

"Certain items have a high quality level associated to them, when this occurs it is possible to attain higher level affixes. An example of this is the Diadem with a quality level of 85. In this case, you can receive higher level affixes even if you are at a low character level."

How low is "low character level"?? From context it sounds like it is something outside the normal -5/+4 range.

-Jason

 

[Llathias]

Glad to see this thread hijacked from being a flaming thread to one about item generation glitches. I hope it didn't cause any irreparable harm before it took the new course.

omegamann, are you 100% sure you gambled the Griffon's with a lvl 74 character? I know it sounds silly, and I apologize if I'm insulting your memory, but that's the most possible (and one of the only remaining) explanations. Ah, and unless the source of this oddity is a simple misunderstanding, I strongly suggest reinstalling D2. Keep your items/stashes if you want, the reinstall is only to make sure your game is not influenced by any 3rd party program. Just to make you know, any new characters (preferably after the reinstall) and all items found by them will be pure and legit, unless you give them items found by possibly corrupted characters (not implying your present characters are hacked). It will still take time before people can trust you, though, especially with the very fresh incidence regarding a duped Windforce. I hope you'll understand that, and am happy that you're still willing to be part of this community! :smiley:

RTB, it will probably be too much work to explain, but if you're feeling bored, I'd be very interested in how bugged items can drop. i.e. is there another code that generates items, what determines which code will be used, what are the chances, what factors affect the chances, what are the possible consequences, etc. Thanks for all the information you've provided so far, and will provide in the future. :thumbsup:

Edit: magic levels being able to improve affix levels is a different story. Griffon's, as a unique item, has fixed properties, there is no selection of affixes from a list of available ones. What the magic level does is, it allows a magic or rare diadem with ilvl (item level) 85 to get affixes that are available at ilvl 99 (actually 103). That is one of the factors (the other being the high qlvl) why Tiaras and Diadems can potentially get all the affixes no matter how you reroll them with the 6 pskull recipe. Note that ilvl does not change according to the affixes or unique/set rolls, only, affixes can spawn in lower ilvls due to the magic lvl.

 

[Darkwell1]

@omegamann: Actually there is one helpful thing you can do. Take your char, refresh Gheed's gambling window a few times and find another Coronet and check the price. A normal price would definately place this in the glitch/mistake category rather than some unknown mod.

Excellent idea!

 

[Drixx]

Still, I haven't seen any good explanations to the comment on Arreat Summit Gambling page (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/basics/gambling.shtml) which implies that this sort of thing is possible.

"Certain items have a high quality level associated to them, when this occurs it is possible to attain higher level affixes. An example of this is the Diadem with a quality level of 85. In this case, you can receive higher level affixes even if you are at a low character level."

How low is "low character level"?? From context it sounds like it is something outside the normal -5/+4 range.
-Jason

This is the point I was trying to make last night. There is DEFINATELY something different about how this class of item works. We know this already. This creates a reasonable amount of probability that he could have legitimately gambled this item, even though it wasn't reported before.

1 in 10,000,000 is incredibly long odds. It's not unreasonable to believe that IF IF IF that item was gambled by a SPF member before, they were within the "normally accepted" range for gambling and so while they hit the odds, it didn't stand out as odd to them.

As far as I know, Flavie keeps a pretty well updated dupe list, including item pack items that have been found/submitted, correct? I know it has a dupelist, as I found the 3 files that make it up, and I searched for his item code "0x942d1cb0" in there.

Guess what? Not a dupe that Flavie knows about. I also searched the entire forums on this site, ALL of them, just in case he picked up someone else's ATMA readout and used that to fake a find. Guess what? I bet you can't guess. No match to any threads except this one.

For a guy as obviously n00bish as this one is, that takes away 99.9% of the "dishonest" ways he could have given us that readout. I'm sure we have some codemonkeys around who could look at the actual ID and make sure it's in the proper format for how Blizzard assigns them. That would be incredibly hard to fake. Assuming that it's not just a faked ID, and I'm pretty sure it isn't, then the chances that this guy is being dishonest is like 0.00000000001%, in my book.

Add to that the fact that the guy does not exhibit the normal d3wd behavior pattern we see when we catch somebody (see the phoenix shield thread and the High Runewords suck thread for recent examples), but rather stuck to his guns, even though he was being called a liar and a cheater by several folks, including some VERY well regarded members here (most merely implied it, instead of saying it, which is worse IMHO for this case). Taking that into account makes me even more certain he's not a nefarious individual.

On top of that, we KNOW that this item class has something different about it, although Blizzard is less than thorough in explaining it. That quote could mean that you can get higher qlvl circlet class gambles than would otherwise be possible.

So Omegamann, I say keep that item, and use it well. Not only that, I would be happy to trade with you down the road if you end up wanting to trade on SPTF. If any of the folks here are so paranoid about staying pure that they can't see how huge the benefit of the doubt is in this case, and they condemn me for it, so be it. To them, all I would say is they shouldn't trade with anyone then.

I mean seriously, any person here could be a cheater. NightFish, Hrus, anyone could secretly use item packs or dupes or whatever, and none of us would ever be the wiser for it. At some point, there has to enter into it TRUST. I believe the evidence against this guy is iffy at best, and the evidence FOR him and his behavior far far outweigh any doubts I might have entertained against him.

If anything at all, I would watch him for a while. I certainly would not be implying he was a liar and/or a cheater/hacker/duper. I said it once and I'll say it again. I think some folks owe him an apology.

Best Regards,
Drixx

*EDIT* Before the flames come, I'd like to point out that I don't have even the slighest suspicion that Hrus or Nightfish do any of those things. I used their names to make my point. No offense intended to either of them. It is BECAUSE I respect them so much that their names appear here.

Also, this post is pointing to the massive benefit of the doubt that should be going on right now for this guy. My explainations don't have to be accurate. It's possible he got it from the Mausoleum and is just terrilby mistaken.

It's possible he's got a mod that he/we are not aware of that allowed him to gamble better.

In my mind, it's also just as possible that he's innocent.

And of course, it's possible that he IS a liar/cheater/hacker/duper.

But before I ruin someone's reputation and make accusations, I'm going to be VERY sure of the facts, and in this case, the evidence in support of him is overwhelmingly larger than the slight suspicion against him.