Caluin Graye
New member
Not that I disagree, mind, but it was four kills, one of which apparently had a passive bus driver effect. So in total we needed to perform five kills on correct people to win via the Beam method.
Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Game Thread
- Thread starter Drixx
- Start date
Not that I disagree, mind, but it was four kills, one of which apparently had a passive bus driver effect. So in total we needed to perform five kills on correct people to win via the Beam method.
This whole idea was something I saw OMG post. He posted it as a Trolling game, essentially everyone is VT and he chooses someone at random to kill every night until there are three people left, at which point he reveals the game and runs away laughing.
Anyway I decided to read through the dead thread and the mafia thread, here are my overall thoughts - it is a little confusing potentially as I used the threads to prompt thoughts and discussions.
1. Mafia twilight bonus was the most powerful (resurection + one time lynch immune), basically adds another 2-days to the game (I.E. 2 mafia NKs). I think just resurection would have been fair
2. Telling the mafia and us that kestegs couldn't be targeted the day he came back, probably should have told everyone that (in game thread). I'd have said that kestegs will revive in the morning and that you are providing the info ahead of time for mafia benefit.
3. Giving BA the dead thread was a massive mistake, any player that can come back into the game should never get access to the thread (look at the Gods of Rome game aka Jcakes eats a bus - I had the ability to resurect a player and thus none of the mafia went into the dead thread until after I used the ability)
4. /499 mafia thread: @Noammar the town bonus was "1 free mafia reveal" whereas the mafia bonus was resurection + immunity = 2 extra nights = 2 townie NKs.
5. Deus Ex Machina's - Both of these changed the course of the game. OUrs prevented Gwaihir from winning and the Mafia's prevented the town form winning. Based on the fact that once the Mafia worked out to kill all the Beams, the town couldn't possibly win (Needed to lynch Gwai twice, lynch CG atleast twice and Noammr once (possibly more) and that was after Gwai and CG weakened each other. Also /m199 in mafia QT2 .... really?
6. Which brings me to the Beam Guardian win condition, I feel this one was a little to easy to achieve (requiring 3 townies to be killed that had no natural immunity) vs. a Mafia team that needed to be lynched / killed atleast 7 times (10 times if you count Gwaihirs 3) (Goryani 2x, BA 1x, CG 2+x, Noammr 1x, Twilight Bonus 2x (resurection + 1xevasive)
7. I think the destroy the Masons win condition was interesting, but again was more of a "solve the puzzle in the dark, while blindfolded and hit over the head with mallet before a certain time elapses (10ish days) kind of win condition"
8. 24hr days. I am not a fan of reducing the days, fine to end early if someone is locked, but IMO it is a penalty for the town as it stops discussion. The situation when I was late was because I was awaiting the story and didn't realise we were at 24hr days. My main reason for not liking 24 hour days stems from my time zone, I am ~ 12 to 14 hours out of sync from everyone else which makes it hard for me to engage with people as my usual posting time is after work. What would have made it easier for me in this circumstance would have been if the day had ended 2 to 3 hours later.
9. From the dead thread
"The problem is, there's a different set of math for when Walter Padick and Mordred Deschain meet. If Mordred is weakened from using his one shot, it's basically 50/50 which of them walk away alive (with a very narrow statistical range where they can both live but Walter gets the birthmarked leg he needs). "
"Average of 10 random numbers 1-1000.
Range 1-450 = Mordred wins, Walter dies
451-550 = Nobody dies, Walter gets his birthmarked leg
551-1000 = Mordred dies, Walter gets his birthmarked leg
76, 218, 402, 418, 463, 707, 723, 737, 839, 889 from randomizer.org
Average = 547.2 "
I am not sure what you were going for here, but if I read correctly you wanted the 451-550 range to be the unlikely scenario yet by averaging the random results you make it the most likely scenario (I think Goryani raised this). On randomness as a whole I don't really like it as kestegs said this game felt like we just rolled D12s all game (albeit with hand of Drixx modifying results ever so often). I do get the feelig that Drixx helped the mafia a little bit more than the Masons, but it was too much in both scenarios.
10. On me "gaming the system a couple of times". I think I was the biggest culprit of gaming the system. 1st with the coded message to my mason team, stupidly enough there was no reason for me to code it all I said was "Noone else claim, Goryani will try and bait it but there is no reason to", I think BPC didn't read it and came out and claimed. I didn't decode BPCs messages as Drixx mentioned he was close to banning it. I did PM him to complain about the benefit he was going to give the mafia, as while we did overstep the bounds we got no benefit from it and stopped as soon as we were told to.
On posting the steven king message, I did so then realised almost straight after that I probably shouldn't have (or should have paraphrased), I did consider PMing drixx asking for pemission to edit it out, but realised that was probably worse.
11. Balance
Masons were OP, Mafia were OP, twilight bonus was OP, Deus Ex Machina was OP. Normal townies were about normal. How I would fix it.
1. Leave the kill all the Mason win condition in (tell everyone about it)
2. Depower the Masons (maybe give them one or two death avoidance mechanics, but no info mechanics)
3. Depower the Mafia (remove all lynch avoidance mechanics, maybe one for Mordred Deschain)
4. Remove the destroy the Beams win condition, I think that one was a little to easy given the only protection they had was doc saves.
5. Less hidden information (let Gwai know his exact win mechanic)
6. Much less Mod involvement
12. Overall
Overall I enjoyed the game, I just felt a couple of things left a bad taste in the mouth 1) All the resurections 2)The win conditon that town could do nothing to prevent (If I was mafia I think 1) would be come all the defencive mechanics that masons had :teeth
Also I'll add
13.
Drixx /199 Mafia thread 2 said:
This was the biggest game changer, until this point the mafia were looking at potentially still trying to kill the Masons, you basically told them not to do that and go after beam guardians instead (essentially showing the mafia how to win). I was very very disappointed when I read this.
Thyiad is gonna host the whole setup thing and we've exchanged pms on that, so that will be up soon along with night actions.
That said, the interesting thing about that comment Jcakes is that my intention was exactly the opposite. I didn't think the mafia could last long enough to figure out the beams. From that point they needed to night kill Eddie, survive the day, then have CG use his Roland kill (Mordred and Oy die) and have Noammr submit a night kill against Roland. Game over in 2 nights.
I wanted to give them enough info that if they sat down and looked at what they knew, they could figure it out (much in the way the white got the explicit info that Gwaihir would cost them the game) and that they still didn't figure it out means I did a very poor job of setting the clues. This is something I have some thoughts on in the webpage thing Thyiad is helping me with though.
Overall the game went poorly, although there were some cool things that worked well and I learned enough and found enough pitfalls that I think the next time I put on a game, it will be a much cleaner and more fun experience. I'm going to go back and finish this conversion of word document to website so that it can be put up and everyone can see all of it and then I'm gonna get to work with Goryani because I have a feeling our co-game is gonna come up a lot faster than I originally thought.
That said, the interesting thing about that comment Jcakes is that my intention was exactly the opposite. I didn't think the mafia could last long enough to figure out the beams. From that point they needed to night kill Eddie, survive the day, then have CG use his Roland kill (Mordred and Oy die) and have Noammr submit a night kill against Roland. Game over in 2 nights.
I wanted to give them enough info that if they sat down and looked at what they knew, they could figure it out (much in the way the white got the explicit info that Gwaihir would cost them the game) and that they still didn't figure it out means I did a very poor job of setting the clues. This is something I have some thoughts on in the webpage thing Thyiad is helping me with though.
Overall the game went poorly, although there were some cool things that worked well and I learned enough and found enough pitfalls that I think the next time I put on a game, it will be a much cleaner and more fun experience. I'm going to go back and finish this conversion of word document to website so that it can be put up and everyone can see all of it and then I'm gonna get to work with Goryani because I have a feeling our co-game is gonna come up a lot faster than I originally thought.
