Phillinnicus
New member
What was the answer to the riddle posed in Twilight? Or what were we supposed to do? I just remembered, and now it's killing me.
Forum Mafia - The Dark Tower Game Thread
- Thread starter Drixx
- Start date
BipolarChemist got it. The answer needed to reference the beam guardians and have at least 2 of the 5 names from the wiki (Shardik, Maturin, Aslan, Gan and one more I don't recall off the top of my head).
The reasoning between not revealing who did the winning was that I didn't want to spotlight someone as knowing more of the lore and therefore perhaps being a bigger threat to the mafia and therefore make that person a target by congratulating.
The reasoning between not revealing who did the winning was that I didn't want to spotlight someone as knowing more of the lore and therefore perhaps being a bigger threat to the mafia and therefore make that person a target by congratulating.
Caluin Graye
New member
Everyone knows the set up going in, but not which cop they are.
This sounds cool. Can the next mini-game be this?
ThunderCat
Active member
If you decide to kill a player randomly every night instead of letting a mafia group do so, then you are leaving it to chance for who gets to die.
forgot to respond to this, and realized I could edit.
Day start I assume with flip on lynch, and then a kill at night?
All comes down to that second lynch. Would be quite the puzzle.
Ah, my initial thought was to just have no night kills, as there are no mafia. But that might give away the game to quickly.
Caluin Graye
New member
Cop head start. So night phase to begin, but the mafia can't kill. Gives two day phases and two 'sets' of cop results.
There's another five player mafia variant I like, which has two mafia and three vanilla town. The 'trick' is that if a town is lynched then s/he immediately gets to choose one player to kill.
thefranklin
Well-known member
Right, and you are letting the dead thread vote on how to nk? I would like that.
thefranklin
Well-known member
Drixx, thanks for the fun game!
I think overall this game will be viewed as a success. It was pretty funny just listening to BA, CG, Flub play around. It was more of an RPG game than a mafia game. It was the scum vs the katet vs Gwahir, and if you weren't in either of those you were essentially worthless as they had all of the information (and fun). Maybe that feeling is because the mafia were found out so fast? But that might have been because the katet was so powerful or the mafia played really badly (ie don't lynch me, that's bad play).
Looking forward to seeing you host again and wish you the best in your personal health.
I think overall this game will be viewed as a success. It was pretty funny just listening to BA, CG, Flub play around. It was more of an RPG game than a mafia game. It was the scum vs the katet vs Gwahir, and if you weren't in either of those you were essentially worthless as they had all of the information (and fun). Maybe that feeling is because the mafia were found out so fast? But that might have been because the katet was so powerful or the mafia played really badly (ie don't lynch me, that's bad play).
Looking forward to seeing you host again and wish you the best in your personal health.
Oh, so many interesting combinations for that to be amazing.
3v2
-mafia lynch - gives 2v1 next day
-townie lynch - choose townie = 0v2 next day, mafia win
- townie lynch - choose mafia = 1v1 next day, mafia win
2v1
- mafia lynch - wins for town
-town lynch - choose town is mafia win
-town lynch - choose mafia is townie win
how does mafia not win if there is a mislynch on D1.
This would be awesome. The dead are the mafia and the living are the town. Even better if zombie themed.
Caluin Graye
New member
Good question. I guess you'd have to with hold the mafia kill if one of their members gets lynched. Or to make it a bit more interesting, let the lynched townie survive if he chooses a mafia correctly. But then I guess mafia would just shoot the confirmed townie anyways, so not really that interesting.
ThunderCat
Active member
I like that idea.
Err. What?
I'm pretty sure mafia did an awesome job all things considered. Just finding the ka-tet so fast (before they claimed in thread) as well as a couple other power roles is quite an accomplishment. The first mafioso was outed via mod result after he died after targeting a ka-tet member. The second and third mafia were outed via a randomly chosen party host bonus (and after targeting two more ka-tet members). A fourth mafioso was outed via a cop who initially was given false reads but later became sane. The last mafioso could have stayed hidden better but there were so many confirmed townies with power roles floating around, it seemed unimportant to look innocent.
I think it's a nightless game: No mafia NK.
In the event town lynch mafia D1, it's 3 vs 1 and not 2 vs 1. If mafia is lynched D1 (40% chance) it's almost impossible for town to lose due vote numbers and bussing/train analysis.
It's also literally impossible for a townie to be lynched D1 without at least one mafia on the train of 3. One or two mafia are on that D1 train so it becomes easier to find them.
Caluin Graye
New member
You could make that work if the mafia got to kill someone as they're lynched too. In fact, that's probably the best solution.
thefranklin
Well-known member
Here is the full quote, the mafia playing badly part was a joke. There was no where for the mafia to hide.
Pyrotechnician1
New member
Is it too late to change our theme??? XDD
This whole idea was something I saw OMG post. He posted it as a Trolling game, essentially everyone is VT and he chooses someone at random to kill every night until there are three people left, at which point he reveals the game and runs away laughing.
Anyway I decided to read through the dead thread and the mafia thread, here are my overall thoughts - it is a little confusing potentially as I used the threads to prompt thoughts and discussions.
1. Mafia twilight bonus was the most powerful (resurection + one time lynch immune), basically adds another 2-days to the game (I.E. 2 mafia NKs). I think just resurection would have been fair
2. Telling the mafia and us that kestegs couldn't be targeted the day he came back, probably should have told everyone that (in game thread). I'd have said that kestegs will revive in the morning and that you are providing the info ahead of time for mafia benefit.
3. Giving BA the dead thread was a massive mistake, any player that can come back into the game should never get access to the thread (look at the Gods of Rome game aka Jcakes eats a bus - I had the ability to resurect a player and thus none of the mafia went into the dead thread until after I used the ability)
4. /499 mafia thread: @Noammar the town bonus was "1 free mafia reveal" whereas the mafia bonus was resurection + immunity = 2 extra nights = 2 townie NKs.
5. Deus Ex Machina's - Both of these changed the course of the game. OUrs prevented Gwaihir from winning and the Mafia's prevented the town form winning. Based on the fact that once the Mafia worked out to kill all the Beams, the town couldn't possibly win (Needed to lynch Gwai twice, lynch CG atleast twice and Noammr once (possibly more) and that was after Gwai and CG weakened each other. Also /m199 in mafia QT2 .... really?
6. Which brings me to the Beam Guardian win condition, I feel this one was a little to easy to achieve (requiring 3 townies to be killed that had no natural immunity) vs. a Mafia team that needed to be lynched / killed atleast 7 times (10 times if you count Gwaihirs 3) (Goryani 2x, BA 1x, CG 2+x, Noammr 1x, Twilight Bonus 2x (resurection + 1xevasive)
7. I think the destroy the Masons win condition was interesting, but again was more of a "solve the puzzle in the dark, while blindfolded and hit over the head with mallet before a certain time elapses (10ish days) kind of win condition"
8. 24hr days. I am not a fan of reducing the days, fine to end early if someone is locked, but IMO it is a penalty for the town as it stops discussion. The situation when I was late was because I was awaiting the story and didn't realise we were at 24hr days. My main reason for not liking 24 hour days stems from my time zone, I am ~ 12 to 14 hours out of sync from everyone else which makes it hard for me to engage with people as my usual posting time is after work. What would have made it easier for me in this circumstance would have been if the day had ended 2 to 3 hours later.
9. From the dead thread
"The problem is, there's a different set of math for when Walter Padick and Mordred Deschain meet. If Mordred is weakened from using his one shot, it's basically 50/50 which of them walk away alive (with a very narrow statistical range where they can both live but Walter gets the birthmarked leg he needs). "
"Average of 10 random numbers 1-1000.
Range 1-450 = Mordred wins, Walter dies
451-550 = Nobody dies, Walter gets his birthmarked leg
551-1000 = Mordred dies, Walter gets his birthmarked leg
76, 218, 402, 418, 463, 707, 723, 737, 839, 889 from randomizer.org
Average = 547.2 "
I am not sure what you were going for here, but if I read correctly you wanted the 451-550 range to be the unlikely scenario yet by averaging the random results you make it the most likely scenario (I think Goryani raised this). On randomness as a whole I don't really like it as kestegs said this game felt like we just rolled D12s all game (albeit with hand of Drixx modifying results ever so often). I do get the feelig that Drixx helped the mafia a little bit more than the Masons, but it was too much in both scenarios.
10. On me "gaming the system a couple of times". I think I was the biggest culprit of gaming the system. 1st with the coded message to my mason team, stupidly enough there was no reason for me to code it all I said was "Noone else claim, Goryani will try and bait it but there is no reason to", I think BPC didn't read it and came out and claimed. I didn't decode BPCs messages as Drixx mentioned he was close to banning it. I did PM him to complain about the benefit he was going to give the mafia, as while we did overstep the bounds we got no benefit from it and stopped as soon as we were told to.
On posting the steven king message, I did so then realised almost straight after that I probably shouldn't have (or should have paraphrased), I did consider PMing drixx asking for pemission to edit it out, but realised that was probably worse.
11. Balance
Masons were OP, Mafia were OP, twilight bonus was OP, Deus Ex Machina was OP. Normal townies were about normal. How I would fix it.
1. Leave the kill all the Mason win condition in (tell everyone about it)
2. Depower the Masons (maybe give them one or two death avoidance mechanics, but no info mechanics)
3. Depower the Mafia (remove all lynch avoidance mechanics, maybe one for Mordred Deschain)
4. Remove the destroy the Beams win condition, I think that one was a little to easy given the only protection they had was doc saves.
5. Less hidden information (let Gwai know his exact win mechanic)
6. Much less Mod involvement
12. Overall
Overall I enjoyed the game, I just felt a couple of things left a bad taste in the mouth 1) All the resurections 2)The win conditon that town could do nothing to prevent (If I was mafia I think 1) would be come all the defencive mechanics that masons had :teeth
Anyway I decided to read through the dead thread and the mafia thread, here are my overall thoughts - it is a little confusing potentially as I used the threads to prompt thoughts and discussions.
1. Mafia twilight bonus was the most powerful (resurection + one time lynch immune), basically adds another 2-days to the game (I.E. 2 mafia NKs). I think just resurection would have been fair
2. Telling the mafia and us that kestegs couldn't be targeted the day he came back, probably should have told everyone that (in game thread). I'd have said that kestegs will revive in the morning and that you are providing the info ahead of time for mafia benefit.
3. Giving BA the dead thread was a massive mistake, any player that can come back into the game should never get access to the thread (look at the Gods of Rome game aka Jcakes eats a bus - I had the ability to resurect a player and thus none of the mafia went into the dead thread until after I used the ability)
4. /499 mafia thread: @Noammar the town bonus was "1 free mafia reveal" whereas the mafia bonus was resurection + immunity = 2 extra nights = 2 townie NKs.
5. Deus Ex Machina's - Both of these changed the course of the game. OUrs prevented Gwaihir from winning and the Mafia's prevented the town form winning. Based on the fact that once the Mafia worked out to kill all the Beams, the town couldn't possibly win (Needed to lynch Gwai twice, lynch CG atleast twice and Noammr once (possibly more) and that was after Gwai and CG weakened each other. Also /m199 in mafia QT2 .... really?
6. Which brings me to the Beam Guardian win condition, I feel this one was a little to easy to achieve (requiring 3 townies to be killed that had no natural immunity) vs. a Mafia team that needed to be lynched / killed atleast 7 times (10 times if you count Gwaihirs 3) (Goryani 2x, BA 1x, CG 2+x, Noammr 1x, Twilight Bonus 2x (resurection + 1xevasive)
7. I think the destroy the Masons win condition was interesting, but again was more of a "solve the puzzle in the dark, while blindfolded and hit over the head with mallet before a certain time elapses (10ish days) kind of win condition"
8. 24hr days. I am not a fan of reducing the days, fine to end early if someone is locked, but IMO it is a penalty for the town as it stops discussion. The situation when I was late was because I was awaiting the story and didn't realise we were at 24hr days. My main reason for not liking 24 hour days stems from my time zone, I am ~ 12 to 14 hours out of sync from everyone else which makes it hard for me to engage with people as my usual posting time is after work. What would have made it easier for me in this circumstance would have been if the day had ended 2 to 3 hours later.
9. From the dead thread
"The problem is, there's a different set of math for when Walter Padick and Mordred Deschain meet. If Mordred is weakened from using his one shot, it's basically 50/50 which of them walk away alive (with a very narrow statistical range where they can both live but Walter gets the birthmarked leg he needs). "
"Average of 10 random numbers 1-1000.
Range 1-450 = Mordred wins, Walter dies
451-550 = Nobody dies, Walter gets his birthmarked leg
551-1000 = Mordred dies, Walter gets his birthmarked leg
76, 218, 402, 418, 463, 707, 723, 737, 839, 889 from randomizer.org
Average = 547.2 "
I am not sure what you were going for here, but if I read correctly you wanted the 451-550 range to be the unlikely scenario yet by averaging the random results you make it the most likely scenario (I think Goryani raised this). On randomness as a whole I don't really like it as kestegs said this game felt like we just rolled D12s all game (albeit with hand of Drixx modifying results ever so often). I do get the feelig that Drixx helped the mafia a little bit more than the Masons, but it was too much in both scenarios.
10. On me "gaming the system a couple of times". I think I was the biggest culprit of gaming the system. 1st with the coded message to my mason team, stupidly enough there was no reason for me to code it all I said was "Noone else claim, Goryani will try and bait it but there is no reason to", I think BPC didn't read it and came out and claimed. I didn't decode BPCs messages as Drixx mentioned he was close to banning it. I did PM him to complain about the benefit he was going to give the mafia, as while we did overstep the bounds we got no benefit from it and stopped as soon as we were told to.
On posting the steven king message, I did so then realised almost straight after that I probably shouldn't have (or should have paraphrased), I did consider PMing drixx asking for pemission to edit it out, but realised that was probably worse.
11. Balance
Masons were OP, Mafia were OP, twilight bonus was OP, Deus Ex Machina was OP. Normal townies were about normal. How I would fix it.
1. Leave the kill all the Mason win condition in (tell everyone about it)
2. Depower the Masons (maybe give them one or two death avoidance mechanics, but no info mechanics)
3. Depower the Mafia (remove all lynch avoidance mechanics, maybe one for Mordred Deschain)
4. Remove the destroy the Beams win condition, I think that one was a little to easy given the only protection they had was doc saves.
5. Less hidden information (let Gwai know his exact win mechanic)
6. Much less Mod involvement
12. Overall
Overall I enjoyed the game, I just felt a couple of things left a bad taste in the mouth 1) All the resurections 2)The win conditon that town could do nothing to prevent (If I was mafia I think 1) would be come all the defencive mechanics that masons had :teeth
I think the two bonii
jig: ) were closer in power. Town bonus was to detect, at a minimum, 20% of mafia players. Mafia bonus gives them up to 2 extra NKs. Two extra NKs represents 2/16 townies or 12.5% of town players.Actual use was closer yet in power. Due to a vigi shot and palavar and other potential shenanigans, mafia didn't receive two extra NKs and town didn't require two extra lynches. BA died soon after despite town never attempting to lynch him. Furthermore, two mafia were detected by the party host reward.
In a game with only the standard win con, I think the rewards aren't that far apart. Town bonus would have prevented one mislynch and mafia bonus would have effectively caused one mislynch (plus the extra NK that comes with any mislynch).
In a game with the alternate win con "short cuts" I think the mafia bonus is better but not massively better than town's bonus. I think the rewards are one of those things you just can't compare in a vacuum.
Eliminating the masons would have been an epic undertaking. It was definitely deserving of a win con. The dead thread mentioned that they still had tricks up their sleeves. If I'm interpreting things correctly, Oy could only be killed via lynch (not gonna happen...) or one of Mordred's special kill abilities. It looks like Oy would have been immune to a regular NK. There was definitely a Japanese Puzzle Box conundrum with the masons. Mafia had to use the right abilities on the right players in the right order.
I think the Beam Guardians win con was easier to achieve than offing the masons. However, that route essentially gives up all hope of winning via any other method. What mafia would intentionally target the characters that were Beam Guardians when masons were running around (unless mafia know about the Beam Guardians). Furthermore, mafia had to guess 100% correctly about the Beam Guardian's identity or else we wouldn't have won. That included targeting for NK someone who didn't show up as a Beam Guardian from our rolecop's critical success.
I'm in favor of the Beam Guardian win con but only if players are told about it (at a min, mafia + Beam Guardians). Some other tweaks probably need to happen. Maybe the mason Dues Ex Machina alerts them to the threat to the Beam Guardians. Some of the mason passive abilities made active and could be used to protect Beam Guardians and not just masons. Adjustments to resurrections/lynch avoidance.
