Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

[Nightfish]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

I might even try Fire Golem this time. I've always loved Gumby because he is such an awesome tank and he slows everything, and didn't see the point in using one of the others when he is so useful.

You'll see how vastly superior the Fire Golem is for questing, don't ye doubt that. Although that matters more for non-skelliemancers. I noticed that a *lot* with my travincal running Poisonmancer. Not only does the FG survive hydra, but EVERYBODY hates him because of his HFire aura.

1) How much crushing blow on your merc do you need to be effective?

The CB is only really needed for Baal himself - especially if you've got a decent weapon. I always found one CB item to be plenty. Guillaume's Face was all I really needed. At worst your run is 5 seconds slower, which barely matters if you clear WS K 2, 3 and the Throne completely.

2) Do you recommend clay golem or iron golem for WSK/Baal running? How important is it to have the slowing ability on clay golem?

I've always used the Iron Golem once I could "afford" him. If I could not afford one, I'd use Fire Golem for areas and the Clay guy for bosses. It doesn't hurt to have the CG but I didn't find it really *necessary* if you cast Decrep on Baal. Either way works fine.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

MANY skills do become "better" with more players

No. They don't. Also you've missed the point pretty much completely. The only skill that is more effective on players 8 is static field. Everything else does exactly as much damage on p8 as it does on p1. If your Poison Nova does 2k Damage on p1 it does 2k Damage on p8 as well. It doesn't miraculously do more damage per cast. Same for pretty much every other skill.

People tended to diss CE on p8 because it was based on monster's life of the p1 setting. They used to think CE was hit much harder by p8 than other skills which is bull****.

That doesn't mean running on p8 is smart, it's pretty much always a dumb idea but it's still a point that deserves mentioning.

 

[hubb]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

People tended to diss CE on p8 because it was based on monster's life of the p1 setting. They used to think CE was hit much harder by p8 than other skills which is bull****.

While this is something that people should most definitely take note of, I think he meant skills become better not in the sense that their damage scales absolutely with the player count, but that they become a better choice because of how their damage is applied. Like we know, at /p1 you basically just need your merc to pop a corpse or two and everything dies, while at higher player counts he suggests it worth-while to focus on revives.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

I know what he meant but it's 1) wrong and 2) not what I was talking about in the statement he was disputing. The few times I run stuff above p1 I'm still faster with CE than I am with revives. This should be fairly obvious. You can figure this out easily with math or empirically through testing. 4th corpse clears the screen, pretty much. Often the second CE will already produce a third corpse to get the chain reaction going. Good look topping that with 4 revives. Once the screen is indeed clear there's nothing wrong with getting a few revives and dragging them along if you so chose. But saying revives > CE above P1 is kinda... eh.

 

[MYK]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

The only pack that ever slows me down in WsK3 are those Stygian Fury types because they always spawn PI and they can mow down a mercenary fast if you're not on the spot with Attract to correct the battle.
Any tip or tactic that I'm missing out on here? I almost felt like rebuilding for mages, just for the extra speed against these things. Hrm.

I leveled up with 1 in CE and stayed that way for some time. Later on, after most of Hell, I dropped the other 19 points in and it's just amazing how well it does. It's just unfair in 1.13.

 

[nurman]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

I personally suggest that ALWAYS get mages. If not for elemental damage, for more meatshields.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

Yea, those things can be a bit iffy. But by the time you get there you should have 10-12 skellies and a golem so your merc shouldnt take too much heat. Attracting one and amping the rest is what I do as well and that works well for me. On p1 they do drop pretty fast due to CE. If you can give your merc a crescent moon that can help as well and is generally a pretty good idea if you want go p3 for some reason. If you're not that fast on the attract you can always go ahead and use dim vision. I personally I don't need it but this seems like one of the few times it might be worth casting.

You can try to respec for mages, but those guys are not going to help your killspeed there or anywhere else. Still if you have 2 respecs, go for it. One to try the mages and the other to get rid of them once you find out just how bad they are. :badteeth: If you need more meatshields, get revives. Mages just suck, doubly so for this build.

 

[hubb]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

If you already have sufficient revives then CE is obviously what you should do, but I don't think this is always possible due to their useless AI. With higher player counts I mean above P6 where a FI mob can sometimes take quite a beating before they go down... But I'm not in the mood for arguing, and I guess the point that it's a terrible idea to play at those player counts still stands in any case.

 

[OsyncO]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

That doesn't mean running on p8 is smart, it's pretty much always a dumb idea

This is something I'm fuzzy on - the cost/benefit ratio of p1 vs p8. Your statement implies there are situations where p8 makes sense.

 

[entwilighter]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

This is something I'm fuzzy on - the cost/benefit ratio of p1 vs p8. Your statement implies there are situations where p8 makes sense.

Players 8 never makes sense. When running Normal Cows for joolz, however, players 7 is the place to be.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

This is something I'm fuzzy on - the cost/benefit ratio of p1 vs p8. Your statement implies there are situations where p8 makes sense.

In normal and nightmare you can do a lot of stuff on /p8 for the extra XP you get. Usually this is possible because normal is too easy, you're twinked, or you're a fishymancer who's just plain overpowered early game. This particular build will only do that in open areas, though. Try the maggot lair on p8 and you'll see why

For magic finding, increasing the player settings is pretty much always dumb because ~80% of the items you get come from bosses and bosses give you one item regardless of player settings. Another guy and I did the math on that a long, long time ago and it's pretty much impossible to run above p1 and find more sets and uniques per time than someone running on p1.

For white or grey items or runes, things are a bit different. I haven't done the exact math for that, but this build is never going to be a #1 trav runner anyway so it doesn't matter for this guide.

Also, each simulated player is actually only worth 1/2 of a player in terms of drops so p3 is actually p2, p5 is actually p3 and p7 is actually p4. But the HP of stuff goes up just as you'd expect. For each player stuff has 50% more HP.

So, in simple terms: p8 = xp, p1 = items.



And just to head off a lengthy debate on which player setting is optimal for which build: This thread is for stuff that concerns this build. Not for "omg, my blizzsorc can run AT at p1 and p7 equally fast!".

 

[hubb]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

For normal monsters and minions:

player	   partied  % nodrop   % gain over  % gain over
setting*   players#            previous	    P1
-------------------------------------------------------
1/2	   1	    62.50	
3/4	   2	    38.78      63.25	    63.25
5/6	   3	    24.05      24.06	   102.53
7/8	   4	    14.29      12.85	   128.56
	   5	     9.09       6.07	   142.43
	   6	     4.76       4.76	   153.97
	   7	     3.23       1.61	   158.05
	   8	     1.64       1.64	   162.29

*Player settting in single player
#Partied players in the same area

Like NF said, all champions max out at P1 and your odds of getting a unique from a normal monster is tiny, so P1 is best for uniques. With runes (and the other things) being so useful I'd so it's fairly silly not to run at P3 though.

 

[Kestegs]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

Why is it called a Fishymancer? Well, originally I just called it a Skelliemancer, but a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... No, actually right here in the forum, Gohanman started calling it a Fishymancer and the term sorta stuck.

Fishymancer is always a nice starter.. Sure, u can't tele, like with a sorc, but u can easy do norm/nm and even hell.. Your skele-army will kill everything, on its way^^ The the name fishymancer comes from.. CE..

CE stands for Corpse Explosion.. U "fish" dead corpses with CE when you at the same time kill monsters with your army..

Someone is getting coal in their stocking...but who?

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

No idea who Wallenberg is or where you got that post, but you'd think I know why my build is called what it's called... :badteeth: Can't say it's the name I'd have chosen if I had to chose it, but by the time I made the first revision to the guide pretty much everyone called it the Fishymancer so I went with that.

 

[akiradiablo]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

NF, It did work like a charm so happy DIABLO was officially Ra*** .... he he he

 

[Serdash]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

No idea who Wallenberg is or where you got that post, but you'd think I know why my build is called what it's called... :badteeth: Can't say it's the name I'd have chosen if I had to chose it, but by the time I made the first revision to the guide pretty much everyone called it the Fishymancer so I went with that.

As I recall Gohanman started the whole "Fishymancer" thing and it took flight from there.

You were just all "Yeah, Fishymancer, wtv" and went with it.

 

[pulli]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

hmmm I recently found this "mara's amulet", I already wield a +3 summon skils and a few other mods (resists) rare amulet.

Is mara's +2 all skills worth the 1 less summoning skills?



Though with this setup, all my resistance has to come from belt, rings and boots. - Getting positive is like impossible it seems :/

2rings giving 60ish% lightning, and 20ish other resist, 22% LR (only) belt -this is the most LR in belt I found yet-. And aldur's advance boots.

I hear you mention quite often that gloams aren't dangerous at all: but can anyone explain a good method to beat those packs?


Look at last time: A unique with multiple shot + stone skin + something else (extra strong?).. My merc died 3-4 times getting close to them, and when I was finally near, they "flee" after a few hits. The skeletons follow, but suddenly woke another unique-group of these, with a holy-freeze aura.

What can anyone do against such torture? I saw 7-8 lightning beams coming from everywhere, and my merc was dead before he got close to the gloams.. After loosing my complete army here and dieing myself 2 times I just gave up.

But really, you mention often these things aren't a problem and that they can be handled easily. I can't, and together with the serpents in nihlatak's dungeon these are just too deadly.

Also I wield a "cannot be frozen" body (hawkmail), this covers the whole "cold-based damage" nicely, no longer am I surprised when my army kills a cold-enchanted unique. (and fire is too easily avoided, same for poison).


Finally every once in a while suddenly my army "dies", and merc + 5-8 skellies are down for no apparent reason (with monsters I never thought would cause problems, like sirens + blood lords). What can be a cause for those 'mass deaths' where many skellies die within a second?

 

[Kestegs]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

+3 summoning skills rare amulets don't exist, you can only get +3 skills on blue items. (unless it is a 1.07 HAX of course...)

That quote was from another forum, I actually googled why it was called a fishymancer a while back because I didn't know, and that was what came up

 

[Nightfish]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

Pulli: Gloams tend to die to CE real easily, in my experience. It helps if you outfit your merc and feed him potions before he dies. Maybe my merc is special, but he can survive quite a lot of gloam lightning. Concentrated succubus or archer fire kills him much quicker. Cast amp damage on the gloams and spam the CE. Never had any real problems, regardless of their mods.

That quote was from another forum, I actually googled why it was called a fishymancer a while back because I didn't know, and that was what came up

It's funny how stuff like that goes. That explanation was totally out there, though. Fish the corpses? What is this this... I don't even...? :badteeth: I guess that's what happens when someone gets told of the build and has to come up with his own reason for why it's called what it's called...

 

[Zarfen]

Re: Fishymancer - Final Version (updated for 1.13)

Nice to see this guide get updated after being around for such a long time! I've fallen back on this many times :thumbsup: