CtA + Death for my Frenzy Barb - Questions

[parsetdx]

I have a frenzy barb (twinked) that is struggling in Hell Act 1 at players 1. Basically, even my twinked swords leave a bit to be desired. His offense is in sore need of an upgrade. So, I have my sorc LK running for runes. I don't see myself having access to many Ber's or Lo's any time soon, but I have the runes for Death and I'm an Ohm away from CtA. Of course if I come up with a Ber or Lo before Ohm then that would change my plans, but who knows.

I'm thinking of a Phase Blade CtA on Primary with a Death on Secondary.

Am I on the right track? Any other suggestions? And more specifically, what base should I be seeking for Death? I am guessing that an Eth Colossus Sword would be the way to go (given Death makes it indestructible).

Lastly, my armor could also be improved. I am using Duriel's Shell for now. Any thoughts here on armor runewords? Was looking at Gloom, again based on the runes I have access to.

High Runes I have: Pul (4), Um (3), Mal (2), Ist (2), Gul (2), Vex (2), Sur (1)

 

[Albatross]

Death has no IAS, so it needs to be made in a fast base, I believe. To make sure to hit those important breakpoints use this:

http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/speedcalc_titanseal/speedcalc_english.php

Why would you make CtA at all? It's mostly used as BO switch on non-barb chars. Even if you roll 6 BO, you'll get only +3 on your barb.

I'm no melee player so you might want to wait for confirmation, but as far as I remember from reading many topics on this subject for cheap options Oath is considered excellent. And Grief being the ultimate 1h melee weapon (there is no use to socket this into a 2h sword since it has no ED%, but adds massive +damage). Of course it will cost you a Lo.

Duress is a non expensive options with many nice mods for a melee char's armor.

 

[parsetdx]

Hmmmm - fair enough. I guess I should have mentioned I haven't played in about 1.5 years so I'm just getting back into it. I tried to research through the forums, but the new look/feel/search is not terribly friendly so I was trying to go based on what I thought I remembered.

I understand your points and am definitely open to looking at other options since as you mention, CtA doesn't make much sense the way you put it. Thanks.

 

[pharphis]

I like honor as a cheap weapon, if you can't afford to make an oath or something like that. Also, if you don't use that ohm you're that much closer to getting a Grief (2 ohm = 1 Lo).
Lawbringer is great for decrep and sanctuary aura (and is usually paired with Grief).

 

[nulio]

I'm not sure anymore, but I think that for Frenzy only the main hand WIAS is important, off-hand WIAS isn't relevant.

So you can always use Death in the off-hand. I did it once.

Googled it and found this:

(...)

1. What base weapon you equip to BOTH main and off hand.
2. What IAS your main hand weapon only has.
3. What IAS from off weapon like gloves|belt|ammy etc..

Then, and only then, can you work out what total IAS you need to hit the last breakpoint (5fpa)

 

[Albatross]

parsetdx, yeah, since the forum changed I can't find anything with search. I also can't find my own old posts or anyone else'.

nulio, there was a lot of debate over it. I remember reading about it on the amazon basin. I do believe the calculator I linked gives proper frenzy speed calculations.

 

[One nOOb to rule them all]

Weapon speed be glitched for dual wielding barbs like it can for dual claw 'sins. If you feel like going that route, I am not sure the general feelings of doing that on the forum. With only lv20 frenzy if you can use a phasebalde on glove side and a colossus sword on boot side it only require 10 IAS to reach 5 FPA when glitched.

This way a lawbringer PB and a death CS both which have no IAS can be used effectively

 

[hubb]

RE Frenzy: (There's no debate, just some people who are wrong )

Frenzy is a sequence of two attacks, and the IAS of the primary weapon is always used to determine the length of the first attack in that sequence: it continues to be used if that first attack misses or gets blocked, but if it hits then the IAS of the secondary weapon is used to determine the length of the second attack in that sequence. Obviously this means that the primary weapon's IAS is still more important, and when the secondary weapon's IAS is used it only determines the length of the second attack.

Basically, the calculator is currently accurate if the first attack in the Frenzy sequence misses: in this case, only the primary weapon's IAS continues to be used to calculate the remaining length of the sequence and WSM is not recalculated.

However, when the first attack hits, only the secondary weapon's IAS is used to calculate the remaining length of the sequence and WSM is recalculated: for more detail, see Hammerman's quoted post in the Calculator Inaccuracy for Frenzy Attack Speed thread in this site's Statistics forum.

If the secondary weapon's IAS and WSM are identical to those of the primary weapon then the calculator's breakpoints should still be complete and accurate...

Oath is pretty much the best weap short of Grief (besides Death), so make at least one of those. In your position I'd make two Oaths and save the Vexes to make CtA for another char or Grief for this one. Death is cool though, it's up to you.

Gloom is one of my favourites, but arguably doesn't actually offer that much over Smoke (once you've got a couple of Um/Pul to spare I'd say it's worth it). There's also Lionheart which has less resist, but awesome stats. IMO Duress's marginal offensive mods don't make up for its lack of res.

 

[Albatross]

All bow to onderduiker's knowledge of game mechanics

Good point on Duress' lack of resistances, I was assuming that a barb would have enough resists, but I'm apparently mistaken.

 

[DaveW]

Sure you can make Oath and Grief when your resources allow, but if you have them and the Puls, upgrade 2 vile husks to Balrog Blades . The +damage and +AR against undead is just unreal. On top of that you have a chance to cast Amp. I recently Guardianed a FrenzyBarb using those swords. With LoH, your ED against Undead and Demons (90+% of Diablo monsters) goes through the roof. With your might merc and Obedience or Reapers, you are pimped out hard.

 

[Jason Maher]

With the runes you have available, dual Oaths in eth bases would be the way to go.

Not that Call to Arms would suck (250-290% ED, 40% IAS, 7%LL), but bang for buck dual eth Oaths wins hands down, you just need to get your leech from a non-weapon source. I've seen lots of people pairing Death with a fast primary weapon, so you may want to go Oath + Death.

On Duress, it is an awesome armour. It has resists (15 to al, an extra 30 to cold), which is plenty for a Barb with acces to Natural Resistance, and it's offensive stats rock, contrary to that silly bird posting above me. :tongue: It also has 40 FHR, which never sucks. Smoke and Lionheart are both very decent el cheapo armours. Gloom is good, but if I had the choice I spend my Um in Duress and save the Pul for upping exceptional unique weapons.

 

[Albatross]

Hey! I was the one who recommended it in the first place :nod:, but hubb commented and since I haven't played a barb in, well.. 7 years.. I though I was wrong, ha.

 

[Jason Maher]

Oops. It was actually hubb's comment I was responding to. My apologies. :doh: I used Duress on many different characters before I obtained my first Fortitude. The resists that are on there I regarded as gravy, especially on a Barb, as the offensive stats are why I equipped it.

 

[zaphodbrx]

From my experience Death CS doesn't really work on frenzy barb. It's just too slow and unwieldy, even if you do the glitch thing, it's just not worth it, and there is better stuff. A zerker or colossus blade would be better maybe, but then the bases are hard to find- they are tc 87, and you need them eth and with specific no of holes..

I would suggest getting dual oaths in swords like balrog blade. Cheap, fast, hard hitting. There's nothing better for your buck. Vile husks are a weird choice, and don't make your first cta as a hitting weapon, it's mainly used for prebuffing, so make it in some low req base like crystal sword. Duress is good, but if you have no other sources of CBF then I would stick to Duriel's shell and maybe up it.

 

[FredOfErik]

I'm just gonna echo all the others: oath and duress.

Oath is boss. An alternative could also be upped Butcher's Pupils, or, as dave said it, vile husks.

Duress is good and since your twinked and (I presume?) SC res shouldn't be a problem for you.

Vile husks are a weird choice

Why?? Nice dmg, amp, some res, and awesome style.

 

[zaphodbrx]

Vile husk is an interesting sword now that you mention it. But the 'to undead' damage is off weapon ed which makes it not that good. A good roll oath will have three times the damage of VH so what's the point? And anyhow that only works vs undead. Ctc amp sounds good, but 5% isn't anywhere near enough, and if you have reapers on merc it's useless. I'll say it's an interesting unique, but uniques don't hold a candle to ladder runewords, specially for weapons like swords. It's like the Bul-kathos set, sort of..

As far as upgrading goes, I would suggest- 1. Coldsteel eye, 2. Headstriker, 3. Bing Sz Wang ,4. Butcher's pupil ( only if you have 2 of these ). Coldsteel Eye + Bing Sz wang is a very gg combo for whirlwind. Not very damaging of course, but extremely safe.

 

[FredOfErik]

Vile husk is an interesting sword now that you mention it. But the 'to undead' damage is off weapon ed which makes it not that good. A good roll oath will have three times the damage of VH so what's the point? And anyhow that only works vs undead. Ctc amp sounds good, but 5% isn't anywhere near enough, and if you have reapers on merc it's useless. I'll say it's an interesting unique, but uniques don't hold a candle to ladder runewords, specially for weapons like swords. It's like the Bul-kathos set, sort of..

As far as upgrading goes, I would suggest- 1. Coldsteel eye, 2. Headstriker, 3. Bing Sz Wang ,4. Butcher's pupil ( only if you have 2 of these ). Coldsteel Eye + Bing Sz wang is a very gg combo for whirlwind. Not very damaging of course, but extremely safe.

You are very right that it isn't an optimal solution, but we were discussing alternatives. Obviously the runwords beat it in terms of pure effectiveness. I like headstriker my self too. Remember using it on my very first char.