About D2R patch 2.4 - their ideas - and mine

[HanShotFirst]

Well, I decided not to comment yesterday until we had some more specifics. Now that we do ...

I guess my thoughts boil down to: "It could be fun."

Looking through the list of proposed changes I can't say that I see any glaring red flags. If for example, they had said they thought they needed to buff Hammerdins ... I'd be losing my mind. But I don't see anything like that. In fact, under Paladin they have: 'Better scaling for offensive auras. Damage based on range to caster.' Could this work out to be a nerf on Hammerdins? IDK. Too soon to tell. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I didn't ask for any changes. I didn't want any changes. But reworking Act I, III, and V mercs doesn't sound like the worst idea in the world. I tend to use Act II mercs with Prayer, Defiance, Holy Freeze, and Might ... and that's about it. Maybe, if I'm feeling exceptionally flush with high runes, an Act I merc with Faith. I suppose it would be nice if there was some incentive to go with other than an Act II merc.

But that brings us to what looks like the biggest potential problem area: New Runewords. These would probably be the most influential thing in steering people towards other than Act II mercs. But, it also seems like the change that is most likely to break the game in terms of making our character too OP. I hope they don't get too carried away ... Only time will tell.

Anyhow, I'm feeling willing to give it go. I'm still going to save the final version of D2R 2.3 before updating to 2.4 ... but I'm willing to give it a go . D2L had lots of changes in the first decade, and while in most partial to v1.11b, I still enjoy playing all the other patches. I'm sure I'll find things to enjoy in D2R 2.4 too!

 

[J-Dog]

Unless you're like me and can't because the old graphics on modern monitors causes too much eye strain. So I'm effectively trapped with whatever they do.

I'm very nervous. I won't lie, as soon I saw them mention buffing underperforming sets I was triggered by what happened with sets in D3. (Although upgrading set stuff makes me happy — Death's Belt for all!) I mean, buffing up underused but fun skills can be a very good thing. But I'm going to be very wary given my D3 experience. (The changes to the Inna set recently brought the set back into the meta, but it completely killed off several fun non-meta builds. And I don't mean made them less viable, I mean the set changes mean that those builds no longer exist at all.)

I also really dislike that "flavour of the month" type of philosophy. D2 has shown that you don't have to keep changing things around every season to make a game worth playing. Not sure if that holds true from a financial point of view and with new generation of gamers but I'd like to see if it could.

I used to play a lot of great arpg Grim Dawn but what drove me away was the constant item and skill tweaking. The items lose some of their charm because of this and rather than collecting a grail for the fun of it I'd end up feeling like I have to save everything because they might make this or that item great/interesting/what ever in the next patch. Fear of missing out. Add to that the laziest design choice of legendary -> mythical legendary and you have a system where most items also become obsolete quickly.

I think I should clarify that while I think it's ok to make changes I also think they should have the courage to stick with them long term and not be bothered when people start demading for moar itemz & content. It was surprising to see they're adding rw's already when there hasn't even been a ladder season yet.

 

[Kartongen]

I really hope we get some spear and claw runewords. Those feel the most lacking. Any other weapon group I am missing that has very few runewords?

 

[Grisu]

I really hope we get some spear and claw runewords. Those feel the most lacking. Any other weapon group I am missing that has very few runewords?

Throwing weapons

Seriously though, I feel the same like most people here. Somehow excited and with a sense of dread at the same time. On a German site they said, Blizzard stated they wouldn't nerf anything. So I fear that in one year or so everyone will be able to finish the game with a Telekinesis build while being drunk or everyone will be showered in over the top items.

They also said they mostly wanted to add runewords for mid-level use (40 to 60) because there was a gap between low and high level runewords. They intend to add a few every ladder so that people will want to come back to ladder play.

I haven't senn a comment though on whether they will share ladder-only stuff with SP. My guess? They won't. They want people to engage online and in ladder. Their idea of adding only a few RWs every new ladder points in that direction.

 

[Irenicus]

I haven't senn a comment though on whether they will share ladder-only stuff with SP. My guess? They won't. They want people to engage online and in ladder. Their idea of adding only a few RWs every new ladder points in that direction.

As far as I understood the update stream yesterday, in the intial season a few runewords are added to ladder. Then in the second season a few more new runewords are added to the ladder, but the initially added runewords will be available in non-ladder and SP from second season onwards. Might be wrong though.

 

[lizard]

As far as I understood the update stream yesterday, in the intial season a few runewords are added to ladder. Then in the second season a few more new runewords are added to the ladder, but the initially added runewords will be available in non-ladder and SP from second season onwards. Might be wrong though.

yeah. thats how i heard it as well. it is in the stream at 7:00. in the next season the added runewords from previous season will be available to make in non ladder and sp.
so, during season 2 you can make season 1 ladder exclusive rw and so on.

 

[Kartongen]

yeah. thats how i heard it as well. it is in the stream at 7:00. in the next season the added runewords from previous season will be available to make in non ladder and sp.
so, during season 2 you can make season 1 ladder exclusive rw and so on.

I am quite happy with that implementation to be honest. I just hope they do rebalance (as many here has said), and don't fall into the trap of making each new seasons runewords a little more exciting than the last. (And if the start is enigma/grief/infinity, I can't even comprehend what will come out after 5-10 seasons.)

Throwing weapons

Fair point. Would love to see a runeword that works only in throwing weapons. Maybe one for boots aswell.

Seriously though, I feel the same like most people here. Somehow excited and with a sense of dread at the same time. On a German site they said, Blizzard stated they wouldn't nerf anything. So I fear that in one year or so everyone will be able to finish the game with a Telekinesis build while being drunk or everyone will be showered in over the top items.

Ooff. I really hope we get the option of playing LoD characters in D2R, similar to how you could still play classic in LoD. Cause while I am excited to see what this becomes, my faith in blizzard is pretty low. Too many other games gone in a direction I am not keen on.
Still, the list of changes to prioritize seems spot on for me, so a small dose of hope remains. I just think it will be two quite different games.

edit: What the hell happened with your smiley i quoted there @Grisu

 

[Dudzy]

My favorite change is more tc 85 areas, I like the idea of having more places to run.

 

[Friiser]

When Teleport came to the other classes in the Enigma runeword, that was a drastic change to the game.

I fear that they may do something over the top, something like adding the barbarian skill Find Item to runeword. Imagine what that would do to magic find...all builds can teleport & hork.

 

[lizard]

My favorite change is more tc 85 areas, I like the idea of having more places to run.

I always had a soft spot for the temples. now i can justify it!!!

Werent the temples on the Kurast Dam already 85?

I checked, half of them were 85, the rest is 84.

Excited for the other areas that are upgraded.

 

[Flan]

Making more build diversity, I'm all for it. I'm more worried that they'll make the game harder and harder, which is something I don't want. PoE became unplayable for me because you need certain builds to finish the game and even more tailored builds to do endgame content. D2 has so many more options to be able to finish the game, and the runewords enhanced that, even with the understanding that endgame content will take certain builds. To me, killing Baal in Hell is the end, but eventually I will go after the clones.

 

[coju]

Oh woah! Glad to hear that ladder only runewords will move to SP at the end of the ladders! That’s exciting.

Sound like they have a slew full of RW ideas if they’re going to add a few new 3 or 4 times a year.

 

[Zyr]

I love Fend, but it is a horrible skill,

No, it {self-censored} isn't!

 

[Pyrotechnician]

You know what I'm looking forward to in all of this, a more viable aldur's set druid, upgrading the weapon to elite will finally make the set decent for something other than fireclaws.

 

[Nazdakka]

I'm pretty relaxed about these. We still have LoD for a pre-changes game, so a rebalance wouldn't bother me at all.

 

[coju]

I'm pretty relaxed about these. We still have LoD for a pre-changes game, so a rebalance wouldn't bother me at all.

I'm with you here. D2R was a shocked welcome. Wanting to add/change/rebalance is fine by me. I'm sure they want to reach this and the next generation of players. We're comfortable and have enjoyed the current state of d2 for 20 years. 19 years ago I'm sure we complained about this or that then too.

 

[Flan]

Also, since I am so paranoid about missing a good rune drop even with the color, I would like an audio chime like a trumpet blaring to indicate a rune drop. Maybe for a Mal or higher get a voice saying, "Hell Yeah!"

 

[Vang]

Throwing weapons

Seriously though, I feel the same like most people here. Somehow excited and with a sense of dread at the same time. On a German site they said, Blizzard stated they wouldn't nerf anything. So I fear that in one year or so everyone will be able to finish the game with a Telekinesis build while being drunk or everyone will be showered in over the top items.

They also said they mostly wanted to add runewords for mid-level use (40 to 60) because there was a gap between low and high level runewords. They intend to add a few every ladder so that people will want to come back to ladder play.

I haven't senn a comment though on whether they will share ladder-only stuff with SP. My guess? They won't. They want people to engage online and in ladder. Their idea of adding only a few RWs every new ladder points in that direction.

You have to remember playing on cattle.net and SP are totally different play styles and mentalities. They even stated that Act 3 basically was skipped by most people reason why they are making you small the orb now. I know people who have played when D2R started, got rushed by and player who played back in the day and was Baal running within a day or so and that is all they did was follow around and collect loot and kill as they built power.

I also don't think you will ever have to worry about this game being too easy. Just look at the amount of "How do I kill Duriel" post and I had a local guy at the LGS I go to couldn't figure out how to get to the Dark Wood....

Depending on the RWs we may have another RWM popping out for SP.

 

[ziambe]

I really like the initiatives they are proposing, although it is a lot all at once. Too much, in my opinion to test all at the same time.

That said, I think that the categories they are working on are very good choices. Sometimes, the rationale is a little unclear though. Especially in the following cases:

Mid-range runewords

1. If they pair well with the new mercs, great, but merc's utility doesn't really come into play until the end game when their primary purpose is to boost player dps by means of decrepify, conviction or meditation. The only way to compete with this is to add new runewords which offer the same auras/curses
2. I believe that the stream mentioned that rushing is here to stay (in spite of the small changes coming to act 3). As is such, mid range runewords will by definition not see much action as rushers and rushees do not need them
3. They also mentioned a need for more uses for zod and cham. But zod and cham are not mid-range runes... Aside from not being easy to find, if the use for the cham/zod is not end game, it will not make the runes much more valuable

Skill adjustments - I support the idea of reworking some skills, but the rationale seems strange in some cases:​

1. Impale - I dont recall any mention of increasing the base frames per attack of this skill, which is the primary problem. All the damage in the world wont make much difference if the attack itself still takes as long as it does now
2. Fend, on the other hand will be sped up. But the problem with fend is the nham bug which they mistakenly claim to have fixed. Missing 6 targets because you dodged an attack will continue to make this skill excessively bad. It will just miss faster now...
3. I dont think there is anything wrong with fire claws. The synergy with fissure is scheduled to be removed/replaced, yet the skill and lore behind the druid cater to requiring the player to be a bit of a jack of all trades. At the very least, a shape-shifting skill with 'fire' in the name, seems very likely to require a fire elemental skill as a synergy
   1. The issue with all the fire skills (assassin, amazon, druid, sorc), is due to enemy fire resistance moreso than skill damage. Although the combination of them both makes a lot of fire builds unusable
4. Amazon fire and ice bow skills are much much stronger given credit, however you are forced to choose either infinity for damage or insight to actually have the mana to use them. Physical bowazons are also one of the strongest physical builds in the game. The bow builds just cost a little more than a grief + fortitude/enigma.
5. Synergizing frenzy with increased stamina....this makes no sense. No build wants to sacrifice points into a skill which gives you more of an attribute that becomes obselete by level 10. It was mentioned that one of the primary goals of the skill rebalance is to allow more versatility however i worry that changing one of the frenzy synergies to increased stamina will achieve the opposite as you lose access to taunt or double swing - both of which are infinetly more useful than increased stamina
6. Paladin elemental auras are also already very strong. Tesladins are one of the strongest builds in the game and with dream runewords every class can become a mini tesladin. Frost zealots are also very strong already, although unlike holy shock, not every class can build them as effectively. Holy fire is perhaps the weakest but once again this is, imo, more the result of enemy fire resistance than the skill lacking damage.
   1. This goes without mentioning the two runewords which boost the effectiveness of fire and ice damage while providing great enhanced damaged: hand of justice and doom. With the right combination of supplemental gear, these weapons make both holy fire and holy freeze more than sufficient...
      1. Incidently, these runewords use chams which apparently needs a buff due to its lack of 'value'
   2. I am, however, intrigued about the concept proposed to scale the offensive auras' power with proximity to monsters...but will this also work the other way around...

Area levels - Its unclear what the goal is here so I have to speculate. I like the idea in general but i think it sounds better on paper than in practice...

1. As it pertains to magic find, changes to area levels only is not enough. Area level + monster density + monster difficulty are the factors which ultimately dictate which areas best to magic find.
2. If the goal is simply to provide more options, i think a better choice would be to expand the 'guest' monsters of act 5 (like the wsk/throne of destruction) to other areas. This introduces a little more of the rng which already accounts for so much of the game's success.

Mercenaries - also a welcome update but the options seem limited

1. End game, mercenaries have one function and one function only: Boost your dps. Currently this can only be achieved by curses and auras. Unfortunately this means that any changes to the unused mercenaries must include the addition of damage-boosting auras or curses if the other acts' mercenaries are ultimately going to see more use

 

[maxicek]

Depending on the RWs we may have another RWM popping out for SP.

As of this moment, I will not allow another RWM in D2R. RTB regretted releasing the original RWM after he created it as it split the SPF. Having just reunited the community after about 15+ years, I don't want to split it again. Now we have console players too, who almost certainly won't be able to use any mod. Also I think they said new ladder RWs will be available in SP at the end of the season.

That decision may change in the future, but this is the default position for now.