99 theorycrafting and stuff like that

[pharphis]

Okay, this is a long-term goal of course, but I want to get my blizz sorc towards 99. I was hoping for some numbers on number of AT runs at p1 or p3 to get to 96, 97 and 98. Does anyone know these numbers or can link to a source with discussion about it?

I've got the grail to work on as well, so AT is perfect.

Thanks!

 

[zaphodbrx]

I believe EasyG had some numbers. 30 k runs for lvl 98, though half of them were 97-98.

RIP to your character Arkado.. still can't believe you teleport around in HC with just 1300 life.. That De Seis pack can sure hit hard. Even on my Baba with his 3k life, 14k def, they still managed to surprise me sometimes. Mostly it is the easiness of everything else in CS compared with the lethality of that boss pack that can get you.

 

[Solar Ice]

Doesn't tele'ing to the South of De Seis mean you have a lot more nasties behind you? If you go from the North, there shouldn't be much alive behind you (if anything)?

I'm doing some CS runs with Atil as a change from Baal and I have to say it's a lot more relaxing blasting through on P8 than faffing around with Baal throne/waves etc. Not convinced about Nithy though. Never did like him. Not with my lousy sense of direction.

I guess I was more focused on the Hammerdin in that advice, but I think it still may be the best way even with a Sorc. I like to have space with De Seis. Teleing North of him and attempting to take him out leaves me feeling a little claustrophobic. You never know when he will spawn Extra Fast and will need to Teleport to a safe distance, regardless of whether you are a Sorc or a Tank. Teleing North of him when he is EF means that your reaction times are cut down and this split-second can mean the difference between life and death. Teleporting around and to the South of him after opening the seal can also get you a glimpse of his Minions for EF from a relatively safe distance. North does not get you that luxury before they are more or less on top of you. If he is not Extra Fast and there are no Unique mobs around him with that Mod, he is far, far less dangerous.

Saying that, awareness is crucial and training yourself to be alert rwhen his mods are weaker, makes survival much more likely when he does spawn with deadly mods. One death at 98 is all it takes to lose week(s) of progress or the final goodbye if HC.

You are correct that there can usually be more baddies South of him than North, but I feel space is important. If you do get some damgerous packs in that vicinity (Conviction/Mght/Fana/EF come to mind), rather just take a little extra time to safely finish them off before moving to De Seis. Most of the time however, these packs pose relatively little danger to a high level char (at least 6 levels above 88) with proper gear.

In your case, Atil at 98 should be be able to "tank" a couple of hits (re: make monsters miss their melee attacks) even with 2-3k defence. This is good but not to be relied upon.

Having said all that, if you feel North is the best way for you and are comfortable with it, by all means go that route.

Hell Nihlathak should never meet a Hardcore character without the very best gear this game has to offer. And even then I would highly recommend staying away from him altogether. For SC it is better but still at 98 it is a tremendous risk, one I would advise to not take.

Diablo gives max experience at /players7. Same with Baal at /players3. Anything above those respective levels only increases HP (and decreases NoDrop in Baal's case, if an odd /p setting)

Good luck to all the Levelers!

 

[nulio]

What's the most XP/time efficient P settings for CS runs with char lvl 95-97?

 

[zgpmf]

I would say p8 except for Diablo which is p7.

 

[EasyG]

Okay, this is a long-term goal of course, but I want to get my blizz sorc towards 99. I was hoping for some numbers on number of AT runs at p1 or p3 to get to 96, 97 and 98. Does anyone know these numbers or can link to a source with discussion about it?

I've got the grail to work on as well, so AT is perfect.

Hi I wrote this in the elite runners thread, but keep in mind it rly depends at how much you kill, so you will have to compare these numbers for yourself, this is for my playstyle at /p1

I tryed a few hundred runs at /p3. But it annoys me how slow the merc kills cold immune bosses and that monsters die slower in general, you also need more rejuvs, because mobs manage to hit you more often before they die.

I have been searching for Ancient tunnels/pit exp charts but couldnt find any, so started to make some rough calculations myself. this is what I came up with for players1, please keep in mind this calculations are not accurate and are based at the amount of exp I gain each run at lvl 91, killing ca 5-6 uniques and ignoring others:

level   exp/run runs total runs
lvl80>91        1000   1000
lvl91>92 400k    400   1400
lvl92>93 280k    700   2100
lvl93>94 200k   1000   3100
lvl94>95 130k   1600   4700
lvl95>96  72k   3000   7700
lvl96>97  35k   7300  15000
lvl97>98  15k  15000  30000
lvl98>99   2k 150000 180000

Thanks!

also it is just a rough calculation I made with the number of exp mobs give and exp penaltys etc. I am lvl 96 myself now.

 

[Corrupted]

I believe Hrus, tweety and maybe another guy or two made 97 from p1 AT'ing with 15k+ runs. A wild guess at 97-98 would be another 25k+
Most players that have done any serious dabbling in p1 AT runs have made 96.

Arkardo - that sucks bigtime. Like Solar Ice I wouldn't go near p7 CS without a CtA regardless of how much dr% I pack.
I prefer the other configuration for the Seis wing as it lets you get in position south of the pack before its spawned so you can act accordingly. There's also less space for other aura-carrying bosspacks to spawn on. Clearing any nearby might pack before opening the seal is a nobrainer.
I never jump on top of a full extra fast Seis pack if I'm amped or decrepified. It might be possible if you're using a Sanctuary merc and have the right timing but its still quite a gamble. If you have a a defiance+freeze merc and 3k+ lifepool its doable otherwise you're just throwing dice.

 

[Solar Ice]

Which wing do you prefer, Corr?

I am currently running running with this one. De Seis spawns roughly where I am standing (Map un-faded for clarity in this screenie):

View attachment 3249


One note about %PDR. You are Amped most of the time in CS, so %PDR is not as effective as in other areas. Amp + Fana + Extra Fast + Superunique Mob Damage = Huge Risk.

I never Teleport into the middle a Seal Bosspack unless it is Grand Visier (and even then I think twice sometimes). Regardless of level or life total.

 

[Cyrax1]

Imho both grand vizier and infector of souls are pretty harmless in terms of physical damage. Lord de Seis is dangerous and also random mobs of knights (not other monstertypes) with nasty mods like fanat and/or might. Don't know how much damage every monstertype is supposed to do, but somehow i only really feared the knights.

 

[Solar Ice]

I can not recall for the life of me now whether the De Seis section has a static map. :ashamed: :dopey:

 

[Solar Ice]

Imho both grand vizier and infector of souls are pretty harmless in terms of physical damage. Lord de Seis is dangerous and also random mobs of knights (not other monstertypes) with nasty mods like fanat and/or might. Don't know how much damage every monstertype is supposed to do, but somehow i only really feared the knights.

The only danger Visier poses is he is Might/Fana/Conviction Enchanted is on certain maps where there can be a ton of Monsters around him (sometimes 2-3 Bosspacks). if one of those Bospacks has anther offensive aura, it can spell trouble.

As for Infector, he can be Conviction Enchanted. If they all Inferno you at once and you are bathing in Conviction in the middle of the pack, you are literally toast. My Paladin has 40% Fire Res after Conviction so I do not know what will happen in that scenario, but I do not want to try. Extra Fast/Fana Infector may be a problem as well but nowhere near de Seis on the danger department.

 

[Cyrax1]

As for Infector, he can be Conviction Enchanted. If they all Inferno you at once and you are bathing in Conviction in the middle of the pack, you are literally toast. My Paladin has 40% Fire Res after Conviction so I do not know what will happen in that scenario, but I do not want to try.

Hence the reason i added 'physical damage' . With conviction you can be toast before you know it. My fire resist was almost 70 after conviction and with that i felt safe. With only 40 i wouldn't try it out either.

 

[Thyiad1]

De Seis map changes slightly. Vertical then right then bend to the left to the seal. Or Right, bend left, straight, right then bend to left to the seal. Awful directions but I'm not going to try ASCII art'ing it.

 

[Corrupted]

Each wing only has two possible layouts. I prefer the other seis layout from the one shown on your screenshots.
The Vizier wing layout on Solar Ice's screenshot is highly preferred to the alternative because on the alternative one he usually only spawns with a handful or less minions and he can fly outside/be hard to hit. The Infector wing is the least important of the three but prefer the straight one over the hook one as its generally easier to position yourself safely against ugly spawns.

There's always the risk of a bad roll of the dice but generally Seis' pack will barely be able to hit you fast or not if you have a defiance+freeze merc and maxed HS. Even more so if you're sporting a HoZ setup.
If you don't have a Hotspur and/or a decent amulet I continue to recommend Rising Sun as amulet as you'll never need to chug a potion or wait for Redemption against Balrogs.
On HC I would always use Reaper's over Insight on the merc if Doom isn't available.

When we did the 99 HC Paladin on Battle.net we had a dedicated support Barbarian which put the defense somewhere in the neighbourhood of 20k paired with Reaper's on the merc and a whopping 5k Life there was pretty much no Seis combination I was afraid to jump if I had one or two full rejuvs in belt. Every point of defense matters and I'd always recommend an elite Enigma for that reason.

 

[Thyiad1]

In your case, Atil at 98 should be be able to "tank" a couple of hits (re: make monsters miss their melee attacks) even with 2-3k defence. This is good but not to be relied upon.

Actually I just checked and my def is 1.2k on fighting switch (30 FHR breakpoint) and 1.5k on tele switch (hitting the 86 FHR breakpoint).

Good post. Thank you for taking the time to make it.

 

[zgpmf]

Nihl is not that dangerous, Nature's Peace + max block + Delirium = cakewalk.

 

[Solar Ice]

There's always the risk of a bad roll of the dice but generally Seis' pack will barely be able to hit you fast or not if you have a defiance+freeze merc and maxed HS. Even more so if you're sporting a HoZ setup.
If you don't have a Hotspur and/or a decent amulet I continue to recommend Rising Sun as amulet as you'll never need to chug a potion or wait for Redemption against Balrogs.

I have a Hoz, 75% Block, and a HF Merc. Two, maybe three, hits from an Extra Fast de Seis Knight is all it took for my life to drop from 2.8k to around 800 in the blink of an eye. I was Amp'd and on /p7, but that is the norm. No way I am taking chances with him, especially since I'm HC. Extra Fast is what makes De Seis deadly.

I do prefer the "Hook" Infector map because they have to run around a corner to get to you, giving you a bit more time to analyse the mods. With the straight line map, you never kow where thay are going to spawn and sometimes have to bait them out if they spawn at the end of the passage. Though there is not really much of a difference between the maps. Vizier's "T" map is by far superior to the "upside-down L Hook" one.

On HC I would always use Reaper's over Insight on the merc if Doom isn't available.

Agreed, as long as you do not mind chugging Pots. That is one thing I do not like at all - for a build to rely on Mana Potting to function. As soon as I get a SoJ, I will swap over to Reapers, seeing as I am using a 1.07 10FCR/25MPK ring. Mana should not be much of an issue then, hopefully.

When we did the 99 HC Paladin on Battle.net we had a dedicated support Barbarian which put the defense somewhere in the neighbourhood of 20k paired with Reaper's on the merc and a whopping 5k Life there was pretty much no Seis combination I was afraid to jump if I had one or two full rejuvs in belt. Every point of defense matters and I'd always recommend an elite Enigma for that reason.

Bnet is completely different to SP of course. If you can get a Barb to BO you before every run then things obviously change. Most SP'ers can't/wont go through the trouble of self-MP'ing to level. On Bnet, the lack of /p settings means that the closest one can get to "legit" leveling is joining public bot runs where the bot does all the work so things like De Seis and strategy in general of no concern there. Many of my chars on Bnet were naked and in High eighties before I put on any gear...

In SP we have to do all our work ourselves. :yes:

Regarding Enigma, making it in an Elite base (or anything other than Breast Plate) means that one can pretty much forget about base strength builds. On BNet we have Anni/Torch meaning that Mage Plate is the most common base there, with Dusk/Archon Plate the best options for Elite Enigma bases.

While such a base will give you more defence, is the difference really that much? I know that from Bnet trading the mentality is "defence uber alles" (non-superior bases are worthless, HoZ is rubbish unless in the high 190's, non cube-bugged ethereal armours are omglolwot, etc) I really don't like that mentality since the difference between a few hundred points of defence is miniscule in actually affecting your chance to be hit.

Would you sacrifice the chance to build a base-strength Hammerdin for example by going with an elite base for Enigma?

 

[Solar Ice]

Actually I just checked and my def is 1.2k on fighting switch (30 FHR breakpoint) and 1.5k on tele switch (hitting the 86 FHR breakpoint).

Good post. Thank you for taking the time to make it.

No problem.

I take it that you do not use Chilling Armor at all? Or is that with Chilling Armor included?

 

[Corrupted]

Bnet is completely different to SP of course. If you can get a Barb to BO you before every run then things obviously change. Most SP'ers can't/wont go through the trouble of self-MP'ing to level. On Bnet, the lack of /p settings means that the closest one can get to "legit" leveling is joining public bot runs where the bot does all the work so things like De Seis and strategy in general of no concern there. Many of my chars on Bnet were naked and in High eighties before I put on any gear...

In SP we have to do all our work ourselves.

Oh I was certainly doing CS solo in full games with only equipment found by myself/our party, but yes those warcries add quite some margin for error. Still I think with a defiance merc you can reach similar amounts of defense, however I would only use one if I had Doom available.
Without (ab)using beta version items you're probably not going to get near 5k life however.

Regarding Enigma, making it in an Elite base (or anything other than Breast Plate) means that one can pretty much forget about base strength builds. On BNet we have Anni/Torch meaning that Mage Plate is the most common base there, with Dusk/Archon Plate the best options for Elite Enigma bases.

While such a base will give you more defence, is the difference really that much? I know that from Bnet trading the mentality is "defence uber alles" (non-superior bases are worthless, HoZ is rubbish unless in the high 190's, non cube-bugged ethereal armours are omglolwot, etc) I really don't like that mentality since the difference between a few hundred points of defence is miniscule in actually affecting your chance to be hit.

Would you sacrifice the chance to build a base-strength Hammerdin for example by going with an elite base for Enigma?

Strength bug. Particularly on HC this is not a nuisance at all because you're not going to be collecting your corpse and re-equipping after a death. You can stay on base strength with any char/build with a Dusk Shroud or Wyrmhide enigma.
Any defense is multiplied by Holy Shield and potentially defiance aura, it all adds up. Once you approach 20k those knights will barely be able to hit you.

 

[Jason Maher]

Ok, here's a question: what is the best way to stop an Act 2 moron from melting to wave 3?