1.13 RoF Superchest Patterns

Well thats obviously true @Timinator. . I call every new pick a success and every duplicate roll a fail. I discribe it as a vase with infinite marbles in 65536 collors from which I pick 65536 marbles our of that vase and return every marble I pick from it ... And now my math is lacking so I estimate at this point. I know there are rougly 70 patterns at the end so lets asume that. I hit 57 out of 70 which shows me 53365 patterns have been discovered and only 12170 are left. This means the amount of Jah patterns is now 0.46 and the Cham patterns are now at 0.30 and that are nearly 1.10 chances of hitting another pattern!

Edit and because these values are still that "high" I am running till I get 65 patterns in total and then I am totally done.
 
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Personally I'd like to see them kept in a spoiler and keep the public tables for the original "intended" way of running for this thread. If everyone disagrees I'm open to letting them out in the open but really, it's not much more work to click a spoiler tag if you're looking for info.

That way it keeps everything a bit cleaner and easily separated for people who find this thread in the future.
 
@Pb_pal I do agree with you on p7/8 that one seems to be viable to run and to discover and should definiatly be under a spoilertag.. Lets put that out of the way.

I am currently looking at the data at p5/6. Currently we have I believe 10 legit pattens with a Jah shown. That looked very promissing, untill I started the datamine. Fact is with 58 out of 70 patterns discovered nothing really intresting has happened. This means if people are running p5/6 its a disapointment on long term. At this point there is absolutely no reason to run p5/6 over p7/8 but the table tells you otherwise. Sure I still need to hit the last 7 pattens to be confident enough (as in 93% discovered) there is no aditional Jah or any Cham pattern. I should have made my question a bit more clear I guess.

Should p5/6 be spoiled to the public after 93% of the patterns have been discovered if there are no aditional Jah or any Cham patterns found?
 
I'd personally want them all spoilered as already discussed.
Multiple times over

I honestly don't know if I will bother running RoF anymore as there is little point left to it thogh
 
Clear answer @Brak, they stay both behind a spoiler.

Still I wonder why you think there is little point in running? Players 7 has some intresting patterns that wait to be confirmed. Players 5 is a huge disapointment atm.
 
I'll just make this as clear as I can here. My views line up with @Brak .

I would personally like for all data-mining information/numbers/charts/discussion/results to be in spoiler tags. Everything. That way people would be free to explore it if they wished, but can easily stay away from it if they don't want to know (ie if they want to find the patterns for themselves for the discovery).
 
Let us go back to 2008. Jjscud "confirmed" patterns there on a questional way, but giving players back in 1.12 an indication what they should run. (source: https://www.purediablo.com/forums/t...project-jah-and-cham-possible-d.655440/page-7) Now nearly 9 years after that moment I do practically the same exept I put everything between spoiler tags so nearly everything is open to discover. Well not actually 100% the same as we opened all those chests by hand.

But putting everything in spoilers doesn't answer one question and that is should I run p6 or p8. If I look at the tables I would say p6 ofcourse because I have a Jah there. Me and Galaxy's datamining showed us a different result. I think its fair for everybody who starts ROF running and discovering to know the Jah shown is the final they come across and they won't find a Cham on that playersetting. Daydreaming and believing in 3 Jah's and 2 Chams and pretending nothing has happened on p6 is not going to cut it imo. Thats like denying the outcome of 4+7=11 because I personally believe its 13.

The only valid point aigainst this there are still a few open slots from which you could realistically expect a pattern. We don't have the skills nor time to validate everything for 100% so we are happy with a 90-95% updated table.

Do those tables make ROF running less intresting? First of all you can decide to click on them or not, thats up to you. Secondly and this one is subjective having a full table with unconfirmed patterns gives me a goal. What if I actually confirm that pattern the legit way? Ironically I am more thrilled than ever to do some legit ROF runs on p7 knowing p5 is not worth it.

To summerize I love to discover new things, but such discovery needs to have a certain goal. At this point at over 80% of p5 patterns found, there is just not that element of discovery and therefore its imo a timewaste. Aigain if I know 93% I can validate this claim which I can't at this point. Other players might see it different and its their right to see it different, but it is fair they have the knowledge they get more statisfaction from running p7 as p5.
 
The point is that the major find was not behind a spoiler tag. There was no avoiding it if you wanted to keep unspoiled and were just checking the thread for updates. Hell I didn't even know how the runs were manipulated until I clicked the screenshot and saw a ring of superchests that cannot spawn in the RoF.

Reason not to run is basically there is very little left to discover maybe 10 patterns max at p7, and it's essentially confirmed not to be an efficient source of runes. Ber and below you will never beat LK with the 12 Sur patterns, even if some are repeats or locked chests are in those. And above Ber I don't think you have enough Jah and Cham to compete with Trav runs. Hell with 12 Surs, you would need 4 Jah equivalents to be more efficient than cubing from LK. I might be mistaken here and I'm sure some number crunchers could get a better estimate, but it doesn't really seem like a great place to run unless its enjoyable.

And I'm glad you are having fun and discovering new things. I'm glad for the contribution you've made to this target. I'd just have been a lot happier if we had learned from the past and whoever found the information, knowing that people were running to legit confirm the patterns, would have just said "stick to p7, PM me/read these spoilers if you want full info". But that isn't what happened.
 
@Brak You're right here. I have to agree with nearly everything you said in your last post. Yes even I am saddened about it. But lets be honest he coudn't know about the agreement I made with you and Pb_Pal. I think its just unfortuniate how things went. The fact Galaxy started mining gave me a drive to mine aswell (but following the agreement).

To be honest I am feeling depressed about the fact p6 didn't give us the result we hoped. If I knew how to datamine earlier and knew this information beforehand I would've PMed you for sure. The only thing I am personally glad about is the fact I can tell everybody not to run p6 because its disapointing.

Now the minor point where I disagree with you. The stance it woudn't be worth it to run p7 ROF at all. I could give you 1 argument why you would be right and 2 why you aren't..
You are right because single target you are never getting the same INDIVIDUAL odds as running P7 Lk due to its 12 surs and trav gives most hrs aswell. This argument only holds true if efficiently is the key.
You are wrong if you want the kick of finding a pattern with a major find and getting appreciation because you found it yourself. Efficiently not the best way but who runs ROF for efficiently anyway?
You are wrong because there are also wraithlike monsters here called Stranglers. They spawn half the time on a run. If you have a blizz sorc you instagib them easely with just one blizzard even on P7. Each strangler drops 1 in 66 a rune. If you kill 20 stranglers half the time and open 3 chests every run you have a very decent run. Only trav would be better, but trav is even better as p7 lower kurast.
 
Honestly I'm glad we mined the hell out of RoF. From that we can conclude if we want to spend time running it. Long story short, I ruined RoF running for 1.14 (except maybe players 3/4). Whenever Blizzard changes anything in the drop table, we can run it again as all the drops will change. Hopefully next patch will sport more promising discoveries ;) And Treeharl, just keep everything in a spoiler. Anyone who's after the rune results will click it.

***CONCLUSION FOR ROF RUNNING AFTER 100,000 SIMULATED RUNS***
RoF running is NOT worth it. You only have 1 Jah/Cham pattern. LK on p8 has 12 Sur patterns and will sport you more Jah from cubing. RoF is only better if you want to cube a Zod.
Travincal is still probably the best for high runes though, if you can handle them on players 5+.
 
My opinion on this matter lines with @Brak and @Pb_pal and I don't have much to add (I also don't consider myself a "host" of this thread, I'm merely an opinionated individual :)).

Personally, I already kinda knew RoF isn't the most efficient target, but I still ran it because it was interesting. One sort of last frontier. Now that interest is all but gone. Who knows, maybe in couple of months I'll consider few runs there. Anyway, now, with the RFL and all, I got my plate full of rune farming and I don't think I have enough perspective to comment on how this thread might affect future rune farming in RoF.

On spoiler tags: For me personally, they aren't a great solution, since I'm curious as the proverbial cat, so if I see a spoiler, of course I'm gonna click it. It of course doesn't help one bit if the post has references or click bait-y winks towards the spoiler. I also think, that posts containing non-FAM content should probably have better disclaimers that the game differs from FAM and no items are kept, especially because the OP has no info or requests about using mods to get data. Seeing non-FAM content right next to legit one might be very confusing for new forum members and might lead to an assumption that we're just allowed to mod our games as we please, which we aren't. The comment @GalaXyHaXz made earlier about how hard it is to play the game regularly after modding is exactly the kind of slippery slope these things can lead to, and one I'd like to steer clear from. I know it isn't my place, as a relatively new forum member, to enforce forum rules, these things have just have been in my mind lately since I recently stared trading and went through the rules couple of times.

That being said, I'm not against datamining, but in hindsight I just think it would have been better to do it in it's own thread, or possibly in "Theorycrafting and Statistics"-forum or something. Dunno, what's done is done. I'm still interested in the data nevertheless and I'm very keen to see the results when it comes to 1.09 and other earlier versions. Time travel is a bit different thing, of course, what with there being fewer players and things are pretty goal-oriented, and things sometimes being very strange.
 
@Burgomaster3 thanks for your input. I haven't viewed it on that side and ehh well you're right about it. "Seeing non-FAM content right next to legit one might be very confusing for new forum members and might lead to an assumption that we're just allowed to mod our games as we please, which we aren't." This statement is very much true. Its the least thing I want is we encouraging people to script mods to make the game easier. Rest assured all items gathered by my datamine have been eliminated.
Yes I am also guilty on those clicky-winky spoilers.

I have thought about creating a separate thread earlier on (half a year ago) but when the major find was posted publically I decided to continue here. The information belongs in this thread, although the way the information has been gathered is not the FAM way.

With hindsight things could and should have done differently. There are several things that shoudn't have happened the first place.
1) The major findings posted without a spoilertag
2) Giving new players an assumption or sugestion things outside FAM are allowed.
3) clicky-winky spoilers instead of straight to the point ones.
 
There is one universal truth about spoilers.

Choose only one to click and not more than that

Monica Bellucci
40a5ec21a1bdf3ffe1d9d2227500c1e2.jpg

Charlize Theron
346584ca2c2088cd623c3e83a1daa8f8.jpg

Cham pattern from RoF
Congratz, you nailed the most useless spoiler of them all.

How SPF black hole looks like:
Keep going
One more time
Okay, one more
Heh, half way there
2 more
1 more
6XCP3VI.jpg

Spoilers are impossible to resist. Click them all! Right?
 
The best thing you can do if you don't know how to mod is play the game the way it is. This includes with the annoying bug's Blizzard won't fix, this includes the lack of ladder content, this means anything!

This is what happens when your a modder. First you fix an annoying bug, because Blizzard hasn't and why not? But thats not enough. Then you notice a massive nerf from 1.10 you don't like. So then you fix that. Underpowered skills? Next thing you know, as a modder, you've completely changed the game. You've fixed/rebalanced many things, and you CANNOT play legit anymore. I haven't been able to force myself to play without mods, even if there as small as ladder content. It kinda sucks honestly. :/

Edit: it's like being an alcoholic. once you take one drink you can't stop there anymore. once you realize how much better than game is modded, you won't ever go back.
 
Sweet. Glad I stumbled on this thread and thanks for your work, everyone.

Bummer about the finding cause I was wondering if I should expand my farm hunting grounds. And gosh I can't believe I had an account on here. It's been so long I forgot and only realized when I tried to make a new one with my game email, haha.
 
sanguillen said:
Thanks, @Treeharl. I've rolled a map with one campfire just NW of the waypoint, but the other campfire is a ways East of the waypoint). I do these runs with my WW Barb as I don't have a Sorc yet, and between skills and charms he's quite the sprinter. I should clarify that those roughly 500 LK runs I've made to date are indeed on /players 7, and on Hell. I guess that's where my frustration lies. Well, that and that my Hellforge drops so far have been rubbish (Io, Ko, Pul on my three Hell characters so far).

My only saving grace is that I've managed to find a Lo, a Gul and another Pul in The Pits. So I'm a Vex away from an ethereal Death Ettin Axe for my Zealadin, and a Mal away from either a superior ethereal Oath Balrog Blade (for either my WW Barb or my upcoming Frenzy Barb) or a Grief (though I need to find a 5 socket Phase Blade too).

That being said, perhaps I used up all my rune luck about 10 years ago when, on non-Ladder, one of Eldritch or his crew (couldn't tell in the commotion) dropped me a Zod. Of course, that character is long gone after my DII inactivity.... :oops:
Click to expand...

Well, I'm up to around 900 LK runs at p7, at I have one Mal rune to show for it (though I'm positively swimming in Ort, Amn, Sol, Thul, and Dol). Silly question, but I need to ask just to ease my mind - I type in /players 7 in my first run after booting up the game, but I don't need to do it for subsequent games, as long as I don't exit the program completely, correct?
 
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