1.13 RoF Superchest Patterns

Well I couldn't just leave the 5/6 patterns sitting at 2 patterns, so I did a set of 500 runs and came up with a couple to get the ball rolling:

Gul #2
Lo #1

Also addind in Treeharl's Pul #1 from a couple pages back.

1.13 RoF Superchest Pattern Tables

Players 1-2

Code: 
Rune     Item #1           Item #2          Item #3          Item #4          Finder
Pul #1   Grim Shield       Hatchet          Long Sword       3 others         Ailelya
--
Um #1    Chain Mail        Diamond Bow                                        Ailelya
--
Mal #1   Bearded Axe       Gnarled Staff                                      mir

Players 3-4

Code: 
Rune     Item #1          Item #2          Item #3          Item #4           Finder
Ohm #1   Balanced Axe     Balanced Knife   2-Handed Sword                     Brak

Players 5-6

Code: 
Rune     Item #1          Item #2          Item #3          Item #4           Finder
Pul #1   Battle Axe       Flanged Mace     Lrg Siege Bow    Light XBow        Treeharl
---
Gul #1   Circlet          Pilum            Small Charm      -                 Grisu
Gul #2   Axe              Bone Knife       Full Helm        2 others          Pb_pal
---
Lo #1    Breast Plate     Phase Blade      Plated Belt      2 others          Pb_pal
---
Jah #1   Belt              Poignard                                           Carawolk

Players 7-8

Code: 
Rune     Item #1           Item #2          Item #3          Item #4          Finder
Pul #1   Chaos Armor       Executioner SwordExecutioner Sword2 others         Brak
---
Um #1    Elder Staff       Gothic Shield    Hydra Skull      Sabre            Grape
Um #2    Balrog Blade      Breast Plate     Dusk Shroud      7 others         Grisu
Um #3    Aerin Shield      Chu-Ko-Nu        Flail            5 others         NanoMist
---
Mal #1   Battle Dart       Bone Shield                                        Pb_pal
Mal #2   Blade Barrier     Great Maul       Long Sword       Razor Bow        zticazzy
Mal #3   Crossbow          Jo Staff         Tir Rune         2 others         zticazzy
Mal #4   Arbalest          Tir Rune         2-handed Axe     Lochaber Axe     Pb_pal
Mal #5   Amulet            Balrog Skin      Battle Scythe    4 others         Pb_pal
--
Ist #1   Ancient Shield    Brandistock                                        Pb_pal
Ist #2   Throwing Spear                                                       Grape
Ist #3   Balrog Blade      Pavise           Short Spear                       Brak
Ist #4   Battle Cestus     Blade Bow        Cedar Staff      5 others         Brak
Ist #5   Ghost Wand        Long War Bow     Scale Mail                        Brak
Ist #6   Brandistock       Preserved Head                                     NanoMist
Ist #7   Breast Plate      Silver-Edged Axe Ring                              Brak
Ist #8   Breast Plate      Gothic Staff     War Hat          Wrist Spike      Treeharl *LK
--
Gul #1   Diamond Bow       Dusk Shroud      Francisca                         Pb_pal
Gul #2   Gauntlets         Great Pilum      Truncheon                         Brak
Gul #3   Double Axe        Flanged Mace     Grim Shield      3 others         Pb_pal
Gul #4   Demonhide Boots   Field Plate      Stygian Pike     3 others         Pb_pal
Gul #5   Gothic Shield     Pilum            Stygian Pike                      Brak
--
Vex #1   Antlers           Falcata          Ring             Silver-Edged Axe Pb_pal
--
Ohm #1   Cantor Trophy     Ring                                               Pb_pal
Ohm #2   Dimensional Blade Jewel            Tiara            (Scimitar?)      zticazzy
Ohm #3   Balanced Knife                                                       Pb_pal
Ohm #4   Balrog Skin       Broad Sword      Devil Star       4 others         Pb_pal
Ohm #5   Bone Shield       Defender         Dragon Shield    5 others         NanoMist
Ohm #6   Bearded Axe       Mesh Belt        Spetum                            Pb_pal
Ohm #7   Bone Helm         Devil Star       Great Axe        3 others         NanoMist
--
Lo #1    War Staff                                                            Brak
Lo #2    Crown             Hatchet Hands    War Staff                         Grape
Lo #3    Large Charm       Ring Mail        Wyrmhide Boots                    Grape
--
Sur #1   Edge Bow                                                             Pb_pal
Sur #2   Amn Rune          Chain Mail       Full Helm                         zticazzy
---
Ber #1   Giant Sword                                                          Brak
 
The expected value in terms of new information from only 5k runs is way higher if you do it at p5 than at p7 in this case. Definitely a trade-off between gaining new information in a different avenue or trying to stamp out unknowns in a somewhat known one, but 5k is few enough runs it's probably better to focus on the new aspect.

Just as a heads up to Carawolk and others, though it's been mentioned in this thread and elsewhere before I figure it bears repeating at this junction: there's been no evidence that marks these chests as efficient targets for runes. Even with an optimistic view with the expected values here, p7 LK still looks like the more efficient way to get runes up to Jah and Travincal still seems superior in terms of Cham runes. Nothing wrong with doing these runs for the sake of discovery or because they seem interesting, but I want to make this reminder plain to anyone looking to farm things like Enigma and the like as quickly as they can.
 
People get pretty crazy about efficiency here though and it's something I've always wondered about. I mean, obviously you don't want to be wasting time. But I get tired out pretty dang quickly running and running and not finding anything for hours sometimes. I used to sit down and force myself to run LK for 8 hours in a go when I was working on my infinity. That's some sort of focus I don't have anymore. Do other people routinely put in hours of runs at full speed?

It's nice to have a variety of targets.
 
NorthDakota said:
People get pretty crazy about efficiency here though and it's something I've always wondered about. I mean, obviously you don't want to be wasting time. But I get tired out pretty dang quickly running and running and not finding anything for hours sometimes. I used to sit down and force myself to run LK for 8 hours in a go when I was working on my infinity. That's some sort of focus I don't have anymore. Do other people routinely put in hours of runs at full speed?

It's nice to have a variety of targets.
Click to expand...

I agree, the only thing I spent hours upon hours searching is a griffon's eye. I did about 5k runs on him (pindleskin) searching specifically for this. each run takes me 36 sec on average. Nothing. First 100 runs on LK I get Ber and Sur, first 200 runs on RoF and this Jah drops. I think the only way to find something you really want is to forget about it now ?... deep.

Edit: plus, if it's for science it's less of a pain to do so much runs. Isn't that also the point of this thread ?
 
@Carawolk Congrats on the Jah !!! Truly astonishing find in the lights of this thread.

I agree with some other people here. It isn't all about efficiency, so it's a good thing to have various targets. Also, making a good Travincal runner isn't easy. Surely not as easy as making a good LK or RoF superchest runner. And yes, doing it for science also makes it easier :).

Coincidentally, I rerolled maps yesterday and did some RoF superchest runs myself. After some 550+ CS runs I finally realized that I was loosing too much time on Vizier with my currrent map, and figured if I was rerolling maps I might as well try to roll a good RoF superchest map and see what CS map comes with it. Got a good CS map on my first good RoF superchest map, so all fine :).

I only did 40 test runs, so although I was hoping for a Jah for the exact same reason as Carawolk (Jah for Enigma for MFO hype), I didn't get higher than a Ko. Ah well, good thing I teamed up with Carawolk in the MFO ;).

Anyway, I'll certainly be doing more RoF runs in between CS runs, probably on p5 / p6. I did have troubles hitting both chest quite often though, due to the crowded nature of RoF. Only averaging 18 seconds / run so far because I also fought enemies on occasion to be able to hit the chests, so I'll definitely have to work to improve that.
 
NorthDakota said:
People get pretty crazy about efficiency here though and it's something I've always wondered about. I mean, obviously you don't want to be wasting time. But I get tired out pretty dang quickly running and running and not finding anything for hours sometimes. I used to sit down and force myself to run LK for 8 hours in a go when I was working on my infinity. That's some sort of focus I don't have anymore. Do other people routinely put in hours of runs at full speed?

It's nice to have a variety of targets.
Click to expand...
There are a number of things in life that I enjoy. I'm not sure I can think of a one I would enjoy doing for 8 straight hours. Even gorging on sushi would get to be a chore about 5 ... eh, probably more like 6 hours.

As to the answer to your question: yes, they (at least I) do. The most important thing to keep in mind with this game is: you need to be honest with yourself about your goals. If you're 100% set on farming LK until two Bers drop and nothing else interests you, then you'll go as hard as you can for as long as it takes whenever you have the time, but if you have split desires and you try to force yourself into only catering to one of them, you're going to have a bad time.

For me, what I enjoy doing in Diablo 2 is: finding cool items, playing interesting characters and challenging myself. I split my time between these pursuits, and they take many forms, but I always aim for a high level of efficiency in any of these areas, whether it's trying to reduce my runtimes in AT or optimizing a whacky character (and yes, I do put considerable effort into making my weird characters as efficient as they can be) because in the end efficiency just comes down to making choices to not do things that waste time. I can then focus that time into other things I enjoy, like more AT runs, or shoving sushi into my face hole or interacting with cool people.

There seems to be some misconception among a number of people that efficiency is some static set of rules you either obey or you don't; it's not. It's a set of choices and you can choose to follow any of all of them and end up anywhere on a continuum. Any activity you do, you can make more efficient by being conscious of what it is you are doing, what it is you intend to do and how everything involved works and taking efforts to achieve the end goal in less time. The reason so many of us here harp on efficiency is because we do value our time and strive to get as much of it as we can. We're going to play the game anyway, but if we do it more efficiently we get to take back some of the time we would have otherwise spent on it and have that time to do other things, and that's damn close to actual magic.

That said, no human is going to be maximally efficient and every person chooses the amount of choices and effort they're willing to make/put in. But the confusion I see many people make is they seem to think "being efficient" means playing character X and running target Y and never deviating and that doing anything else means not being efficient, while completely being oblivious to the fact that jiansonz is probably the most efficient player on the forum, at least very near the top, because while yes, his games take an incredibly long time to play, he maximizes his time to an intense degree so that he milks all of that time for everything it's worth, and that is what efficiency means and that is a concept I don't understand people not being decidedly for, especially with how little time there is to go around in life.
 
Great posts @maareek, very well explained.

As for me, I'm doing this mostly for the discovery of something new in this old game. It's crazy to me that we're still learning about this game, and there is still so much to explore after all these years. The HRs are nice, don't get me wrong, but as others have said it's the science of it that's intriguing for me.

I was originally going to wait until I hit 10k, but I figured since we've got a pile of new runners in here that I'd post a rundown of my 6.5k runs that I've done to date on p7/8. This will hopefully give people a bit of a better idea of what to expect when running, and how long it will take to start finding the runes. These threads tend to give the perception that runes fly out of the chests left right and centre, so it's good to tailor your expectations to the data where possible so as to not get disappointed if things aren't as smoothly as you thought.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, I have used two different builds for these runs.

1. An Enigma-less budget assassin focused on BoS with a Harmony bow and CoS for crowd control and MB for chest clearing
2. A Barb using Enigma and Howl for crowd control/chest clearing.

The sin had run times hovering around 14.5 seconds, focused pretty much only on clicking the chests, looking for orange, nabbing runes if they were there, and getting out. The barb has an average around 18-19 seconds, which includes picking up all the other goodies (charms, jewels, gems etc). Worth noting though that the sin had about a 4-5% abort rate (usually only one chest), and the barbs is near zero, so even with slightly higher run times, I would imagine he's more efficient in the long term (even not counting all the other potential goodies he can find).

Okay okay, enough about that. You're here for the runes! Here is a list of all the qualifying runes I found, including those that were duplicates of other patterns:

Code: 
Rune:      Run:
Gul        208
Sur        278   ---->  pretty good start :P
Ist        1381
Gul        1460
Ohm        2278
Ohm        3268  ----> almost 1k runs without a HR, ouch
Mal        3863
Mal        4136
Gul        4679
Vex        4700
Ohm        5049
Ohm        5237
Um         5459
Ohm        5473
Mal        6335
Sur        6368


That's 16 qualifying runes in 6500 runs, which gives you a pattern every 406.25 runs. I spoke with Brak earlier, and he agreed that 1 in every ~500 seemed to line up for him as well (although I don't think he formally kept track). Interesting to note that almost a third of my runes are Ohms, would be interesting to see if other people have the same experience.
 
Last edited:
That's a qualifying rune every 2 hours and a bit ... not bad :). Thanks for the info Pb_Pal.

For my Sorc, abort rate is probably higher at the moment. Or maybe not abort rate, but at least runs where I have to skip at least one chest.

Any special advice for Blizzard Sorcs? Is it wise to kill some enemies (only if not CI) to be able to reach the chest, or does that mean too much time lost?

@maareek I hope I (and other people) didn't rub you the wrong way. That definitely wasn't my intention, and I thank you for your detailed analysis. I only meant to say that it's nice to have different options to gain HRs (and items in general). Also, personally I have a hard time running Travincal even somewhat decently, so in that respect RoF superchests are an easier way to try my luck to obtain a Jah or Cham (with chances of getting other good (high) runes as well).
 
@Pb_pal I think either your Ohms or mine are an aberration as I've only hit one pattern from what I can tell. My haul thus far on p78 is
Code: 
Pul
Mal
Ist
Ist
Ist
Ist
Ist
Gul
Gul
Vex
Ohm
Lo
Ber
I don't keep track of run numbers so that I don't notice how much of my life I'm wasting on clicking on imaginary chests without killing any monsters ;) But if we assume similar number of patterns to LK it should be a rune a hair under every 500 runs.

If I have free time, I might go in and asterisk all of the confirmed patterns as these are then highly unlikely from locked chests.

@T72on1 I could post a vid of my FO sorc running at some point if you think it might be helpful. More likely someone would be able to tell me what I'm doing wrong. I imagine she is weaker than a Blizz sorc, so I do very little killing on my runs.
 
Last edited:
Not killing anything seems like the right thing to do on this kind of runs :). I was just wondering if I should skip the run altogether if I have to kill some enemies, or if it's worth it anyway. Also people might have some tricks as to how to hit the chests without killing any enemies, even when there are plenty of enemies around.
 
Yeah maareek I also didn't mean anything by it. I try to be efficient as well hah. But yeah sometimes burn out on some runs.
 
I have to disagree with several people here about how "useless" 5/6 ROF might be compared to LK. If my expected rates on players 6 become true with a gooddrop of 37% we have an expected rate of 1 (nearly 1.5) Cham Patterns and atleast 3 Jah Patterns (maybe 4). Combine this with 2 Ber and 4 Sur things are looking good! We have 7 Jah equivalent patterns in that case (Cham counts as 2 Jah). Lk p7/8 4,25 Jah equivalents (11 Sur and 3 Ber) but we have to multiple that value with 3 because we have 6 superchests. That means our ROF patterns are atleast as effective as players 5/6 LK and 60-70% as effective as p7/8 LK. I woudn't call that useless at all, expecially if you don't want to cube Bers! There is also a chance we have 2 Cham patterns which makes the runs nearly 85% effective as LK.
 
T72on1 said:
Not killing anything seems like the right thing to do on this kind of runs :). I was just wondering if I should skip the run altogether if I have to kill some enemies, or if it's worth it anyway. Also people might have some tricks as to how to hit the chests without killing any enemies, even when there are plenty of enemies around.
Click to expand...
I only kill if I have something I want to pick up, or know there is a rune but can't see it and am not able to do so safely.

I also kill isolated bosspacks of finger mages since they're easy and safe.
 
T72on1 said:
@maareek I hope I (and other people) didn't rub you the wrong way.
Click to expand...
Quite the opposite. I think time management is one of the most important abilities any person can learn not just in Diablo 2 but in life and so when I see the opportunity to explain the concept to people who both seem to not be following it and willing and able to understand, I'm quite earnest in my explanation in the same way a parent who just heard their child say they're life's ambition was to be a bum might be earnest in explaining that a better choice would be to become a successful (insert high paying job here) first so you could be a bum in a house instead of a cardboard box. If it seems like I'm trying to remonstrate you, it's merely because I'm trying very hard to get across how important this concept is, because, again, you only have so much time available to you in life and getting the most out of it is, as I said before, akin to actual, factual magic in that it pulls more time and more enjoyment from the ether. If I didn't value you as a human being, I just wouldn't bother to point it out.

To reiterate: when I tell you to be efficient with your time I do not mean you must do only X or only Y and never anything else. What I mean is, if you are not doing X or Y (which for the purposes of this illustration we will assume are the tested most efficient methods for achieving a given purpose) you should 1. know and understand why you are choosing to do so (and yes "because I want to" is a valid reason and, in fact, the best reason) and 2. try to be as efficient in the method you choose as you can be. To illustrate this point, let me tell you about how I run AT: I pick up useless junk; rare boots, rare gloves, rare lacquered plates, rare vortex shields, blue dimensional shards, blue unearthed wands, rare vortex shields, as well as others besides and I do this in spite of it hurting my efficiency because I find it interesting and want to do it. I do not, however, use this as an excuse to run slowly, or to not roll a good map. In short, I identify the compromises I need to make to keep myself happy and then focus on being as efficient as I can in every other area.

The reason I'm so emphatic about all this stuff is I see the following situation play out constantly, not just here but in every area of life: "Well I'll never be as efficient as Fabian or Gripphon so I'm just not going to bother trying" which both depresses me deeply and makes about as much sense as "well, I wasn't born in a mansion so I'm going to move to the wilderness and live in a cave my whole life." There is no a human being who cannot be better at what they do. Fabian is the most efficient Magic Finder we know of; he could still be better. Grip is the most efficient rune finder we know of; he could still be better. Fabian makes mistakes, Grip makes mistakes, you make mistakes, I make mistakes, all every person makes mistakes and could be better than they are. Harping on efficiency is just a reminder to everyone that you can do better than you are doing now if you have the discipline to educate yourself and work at it combined with the honesty to yourself to identify what it actually is you're after so you can work towards it. Doing that not only makes your pile of loot larger in terms of Diablo 2, but it makes your life, your actual existence, more enjoyable because you get to squeeze more out of your time on this planet.

I only meant to say that it's nice to have different options to gain HRs (and items in general).
Click to expand...
There's nothing preventing you from running different targets. If you want HRs and variety, you can definitely do a combination of LK, Trav and Cows. It's less efficient for just farming HRs than pure LK runs, but efficiency is merely a tool for making effective projects better; and if your goal is not just farming HRs (as in, you want to farm HRs but also want variety) then acting like it's just farming HRs is not effective, merely dishonest. Same goes for item finding, Pit Zerker, Pit Singer, AT Conc Barb, AT Blizzsorc are all pretty close in most people's hands and while Pit Zerker has the highest efficiency ceiling, running nothing but it is only effective if finding items is your only goal.

Also, personally I have a hard time running Travincal even somewhat decently, so in that respect RoF superchests are an easier way to try my luck to obtain a Jah or Cham (with chances of getting other good (high) runes as well).
Click to expand...
I mean not to put too fine a point on this but, of course you have a hard time running Travincal, at least if my memory of what items you have access to is correct. A good Trav runner needs either Infinity (for a blizzsorc) or Enigma + Grief (for a barb) and as far as I know you have none of those. A paladin with Death or a barb with dual Oaths could do okay with a map where the council spawns by the stairs, but it's still going to be worse than LK runs and, I have to ask why you would be trying to farm Chams (which is basically the only rune Trav is the best target for) when you don't have Enigma or Grief or Infinity ... what purpose does it move you towards? Again, this is a situation where you need to be clear to yourself on your goals: if it's to run Trav efficiently, you need to farm LK first. If it's something else, you need to figure out what that something else is and plan accordingly. When I last did a restart, I ran quite a bit of Trav with a dual Razor's Edge + Leviathan barb, because I hate running LK with a fiery passion and while that was not the most efficient Trav setup I could get (dual Oaths would be better probably) it was the intersection of most efficient and most fun for me.

Again, just so we're clear, I'm not mad at you or anyone else here, I'm just trying to get across a point I think is monumentally important because I think it can help you. Value your time, be honest with yourself about your goals, educate yourself about those goals and the methods to get there, and be disciplined about working towards them and finding ways to improve. That's what efficiency is and the fact that what it outputs is the most valuable resource a person has - time - is what makes efficiency such an important concept.
 
Last edited:
@maareek Nice post but I think you forgot one thing. Sometimes value is finding something new and refreshing for "the greater goods"as finally looking for that Cham pattern at p5 ROF. It doesn't even mather if you keep that cham or sell it to akara, as long I have a screenshot with the Cham I feel statified.

Targets can be manipuled by changing several things on the data file. Joy can't be manipulated and for me it is pure Joy to have 3 Jah's + Cham patterns (something fixed instead of random) confirmed at a playersetting somewhere in the game. Yes, if I really want Eni I just go with 3K lower kurast runs and abuse 11 sur patterns, but that isn't fun is it?
 
Treeharl, I don't think you understood the point of my posts at all. If it's fun for you to find new things, then you work towards finding things in a manner that includes as little wasted time as possible, correct? That's efficiency and that's the concept I'm trying to get across. I'm not aware that I've at any point said anyone should sacrifice enjoyment; in fact the point I've been attempting to communicate focuses on maximizing enjoyment.
 
@maareek I'm speechless ... really. Thank you for taking the time to write such a well written post, which demonstrated your point of view 100% and gave me some new insights.
 
@T72on1 sometimes this forum surprises you!

Though @maareek being knwon as quite an essayist is not maybe news for you anymore. :)

To continue this a little longer, I can't sometimes help but think what the heck I'm doing when I'm trying to make some of my target running more and more efficient. Cause in the end I feel that playing some video game is not maybe the most "efficient" thing I could be doing on that moment. ;)
 
Log in to Reply / Create Site Account
Remove Ads - Go PurePremium

Latest posts

Back
Top