1.07 News, Info and Gossip
- Thread starter AlienBoyz
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IQuitWoWForThis
Member
Thx for your answers so far, but i think i didnt make myself clear enough: Im not searching for the maximum amount of XP. Im searching for the maximum of Level Ups.
Im rushing a lot of slaves for Rack Running, so i want to keep lvling process as short as possible:
If you have a P8 norm game with 6 LvL 1 slaves, you will end up with LvL 24 slaves after norm ancients --> if you go further and do P8 nm ancients, the slaves will end up with lvl 42.
Now: If you do hell ancients, the lvl 42 chars will get lvl 52. If the chars are 52 (or 53, not 100% sure here) they will get LvL 63 BUT if you do the same quest with same parameters except the slave's lvl is 54, you end up with lvl 59 only.
So there must be some kind of "golden" lvl where you get the most lvl ups possible for hell ancients. It has to be something between 51 and 53 i think. I was hoping someone could tell me the exact lvl
Im rushing a lot of slaves for Rack Running, so i want to keep lvling process as short as possible:
If you have a P8 norm game with 6 LvL 1 slaves, you will end up with LvL 24 slaves after norm ancients --> if you go further and do P8 nm ancients, the slaves will end up with lvl 42.
Now: If you do hell ancients, the lvl 42 chars will get lvl 52. If the chars are 52 (or 53, not 100% sure here) they will get LvL 63 BUT if you do the same quest with same parameters except the slave's lvl is 54, you end up with lvl 59 only.
So there must be some kind of "golden" lvl where you get the most lvl ups possible for hell ancients. It has to be something between 51 and 53 i think. I was hoping someone could tell me the exact lvl
Definitely!
The penalty is obviously very different in v1.14. For clvl76-83, v1.14 is actually more generous, but for clvl70-75 and clvl84+, v1.07 is more generous.
The difference for clvl98 is nuts: 20% in v1.07 vs 0.59% in v1.14. Honestly, I think they went way too far with the penalty in later patches.
The mlvl vs clvl penalty is the same, though. So at clvl98, you want to kill at least mlvl93 to avoid that penalty.
Izual actually has the highest base XP of any monster, but unlike most other unique monsters, he will not grant 500% XP. This is because he doesn't generate random affixes. And (because of the same reason) he will not get +3 to his mlvl, thus stays at mlvl90, thus will be affected by the mlvl vs clvl penalty.
And this applies to act bosses as well, which makes them all pretty lousy for XP runs. At clvl98, one Travincal run (160.296) already nets you more XP than killing Baal (155.552) would.
(It's even worse for Diablo and Mephisto, because they're both only mlvl90, and therefore grant only 43% of their XP to a clvl98.)
Hell Travincal runs are kinda tier 0 XP runs: Three guaranteed mlvl93 spawns with a high base XP, always together, always the same location, six minions as extra, and it's a pretty short walk to get there. Hell Cows just can't beat that.
GalaXyHaXz
New member
Not sure what the best Clvl would be, but I'm assuming as early as possible would be fine. It only takes a few cow runs to power level into the 60's.
There has always been a global XP penalty except in the first three patches. In April/May of 2000, Blizzard decided to raise the max Clvl from 50 to 99 but they didn't yet implement a penalty.
They also capped regular monsters to mlvl 85 instead of 90 in 1.10, making it even harder. We can do runs of unique monsters (lvl 93) which give good XP even at 98.
1.00 - 1.02: No global penalty
1.03 - 1.09:
1.10+:
Edit: @Fruit beat me to it, and yeah I totally agree. Exactly why I play the older patches, they took the "lets nerf everything" a little too seriously...
There has always been a global XP penalty except in the first three patches. In April/May of 2000, Blizzard decided to raise the max Clvl from 50 to 99 but they didn't yet implement a penalty.
They also capped regular monsters to mlvl 85 instead of 90 in 1.10, making it even harder. We can do runs of unique monsters (lvl 93) which give good XP even at 98.
1.00 - 1.02: No global penalty
1.03 - 1.09:
Code:
Clvl 76-80 -> 1/2 experience.
Clvl 81-85 -> 1/3 experience.
Clvl 86-90 -> 1/4 experience.
Clvl 91+ -> 1/5 experience.
Code:
70 -> 95.31% | 80 -> 48.44% | 90 -> 5.96%
71 -> 90.63% | 81 -> 43.75% | 91 -> 4.49%
72 -> 85.94% | 82 -> 39.06% | 92 -> 3.42%
73 -> 81.25% | 83 -> 34.38% | 93 -> 2.54%
74 -> 76.56% | 84 -> 29.69% | 94 -> 1.95%
75 -> 71.88% | 85 -> 25.00% | 95 -> 1.46%
76 -> 67.19% | 86 -> 18.75% | 96 -> 1.07%
77 -> 62.50% | 87 -> 14.06% | 97 -> 0.78%
78 -> 57.81% | 88 -> 10.55% | 98 -> 0.59%
79 -> 53.13% | 89 -> 7.91%Edit: @Fruit beat me to it, and yeah I totally agree. Exactly why I play the older patches, they took the "lets nerf everything" a little too seriously...
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Your [1.03 - 1.09] table is shifted 
It's 76, 81, 86, 91. By all means try it out if you don't trust me.
It's 76, 81, 86, 91. By all means try it out if you don't trust me.GalaXyHaXz
New member
Yeah you're right. I copied it from the arreat summit and removed the "when you pass". Forgot to increment it 
IQuitWoWForThis
Member
Is that true for P8, too ?
Well, if we're talking manually adding 8 characters to a game and then using only 1 to do all the killing, I would certainly do Cow runs. You could do a Travincal run in the same game while you're at it, but I don't know if that would be worth it with all the act switching that you'd need to do.
But I suppose you could start with a Cow run, then move everyone to the Travincal waypoint and do a run there, and then move everyone back to act 1 again. This way everyone will start in act 1 in the next game, rather than in act 3, which will save you a lot of running. In this case, you probably want to open the cow level somewhere between spawn-point and the waypoint, to minimize the running the leechers have to do.
Also, I haven't tested Magic Find in multiplayer games myself, but a bunch of guys in this thread have suggested that monster drops get better with more players in the same area.
So, if they're right, P8 Travincal runs might actually be very well worth it.
And in case you want to try Travincal-only runs, then it should be best to move everyone to act 4 after each run, because of how short the walk to the waypoint is.
IQuitWoWForThis
Member
Well P8 Trav-only should be not very efficient because the loading of 8 chars in TCP/IP takes quite a while. The longer a game takes, the better.
Do the chars really have to be in the same zone to grant an xp bonus to the killing char ? Dont give the mobs just more XP if another char enters the game ?
Do the chars really have to be in the same zone to grant an xp bonus to the killing char ? Dont give the mobs just more XP if another char enters the game ?
You're correct. But since you spoke of ancients and slaves, I figured you meant leveling them all at the same time. 
Monsters will give bonus XP if additional partied players are in the same area (about ~35% more XP per additional player), but in that case the XP will be divided among the players, so not ideal if you only want to level one character.
If you're only leveling one character, you could consider running around in act 5. Most indoor areas should be fine for XP, though probably not as good as cow level. Baal runs are definitely awesome for XP, but it's a tough run.
Edit: Removed the XP multiplier formula, since it isn't what's used in 1.07. Looks like the 1.09 table is used rather than the one from 1.08:
The monster health multiplier formula I posted was also wrong. I don't think any other LOD version uses this table:
Monsters will give bonus XP if additional partied players are in the same area (about ~35% more XP per additional player), but in that case the XP will be divided among the players, so not ideal if you only want to level one character.
If you're only leveling one character, you could consider running around in act 5. Most indoor areas should be fine for XP, though probably not as good as cow level. Baal runs are definitely awesome for XP, but it's a tough run.
Edit: Removed the XP multiplier formula, since it isn't what's used in 1.07. Looks like the 1.09 table is used rather than the one from 1.08:
Code:
1 = 1
2 = 1.75
3 = 2.5
4 = 3.25
5 = 3.75
6 = 4
7 = 4.25
8 = 4.5The monster health multiplier formula I posted was also wrong. I don't think any other LOD version uses this table:
Code:
1 = 1
2 = 2
3 = 3
4 = 3.75
5 = 4.5
6 = 5.25
7 = 5.75
8 = 6.25
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IQuitWoWForThis
Member
Thank you for your detailed answer !
I think it depends on the chars you want to level: A static sorce wont be suffering that much from the 6,25 hp multiplier as a barb would do. On the other hand a barb might be much faster on Council than the sorce...
I think it depends on the chars you want to level: A static sorce wont be suffering that much from the 6,25 hp multiplier as a barb would do. On the other hand a barb might be much faster on Council than the sorce...
Sorc should do alright with Static Field and Cold Mastery, but Crushing Blow doesn't take resistances into account, and I think it also scales with players. So, barbs and amazons with CB are probably the best for all solo-P8 content. I still don't have the gear myself unfortunately :<
I would probably use a Conviction paladin + Sorceress if I could have two windows running at the same time, but the windows will freeze when they are inactive, and that feels too risky for me on hardcore
I would probably use a Conviction paladin + Sorceress if I could have two windows running at the same time, but the windows will freeze when they are inactive, and that feels too risky for me on hardcore
IQuitWoWForThis
Member
Yeah it is a bit scary ^^ You can host the game with the killing char and s/e as soon as you see the lifebar on the portraits changing. If the cow doesnt oneshot your char that is.
GalaXyHaXz
New member
Some interesting bits regarding running the cows. A local farmer once told me his cows are scared to death of wolves. Better bring you a druid
Though seriously, I don't play HC so it's not the same. But I always teleport into a corner until I find one that's thin. Kill any cows, and then stand in the corner for about 15 sec. If no cows come, cast portal and bring in mules. Begin clearing from the corner so you can S/E if any cows reach the mules.
@Fruit Were you able to test out XP in 1.07 to confirm it uses the 1.09 table? If that's the case, that would be interesting. This means XP in a 6+ players game is better in 1.08 than any patch, according to the Wiki. I believe you though, because Blizzard changed a bunch of things in 1.08 that they changed back in 1.09.
Though seriously, I don't play HC so it's not the same. But I always teleport into a corner until I find one that's thin. Kill any cows, and then stand in the corner for about 15 sec. If no cows come, cast portal and bring in mules. Begin clearing from the corner so you can S/E if any cows reach the mules.
@Fruit Were you able to test out XP in 1.07 to confirm it uses the 1.09 table? If that's the case, that would be interesting. This means XP in a 6+ players game is better in 1.08 than any patch, according to the Wiki. I believe you though, because Blizzard changed a bunch of things in 1.08 that they changed back in 1.09.
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Si, I went about it the simple way, by creating / joining games, and killing things.
Though, I've tested on Normal only, so there is a chance that the values are different for NM / Hell. (Probably not, but assumptions are no good ;P)
If you plan on leveling in 1.08 you'd better have some cannons, because that health multiplier table looks like a disaster ;D
They sure changed things often in Diablo 2. And I'm under the impression that in later patches, they use mlvl a lot more to calculate things. From what I've seen so far, 1.07 is just way more basic.
An example is that the bonus damage from SH/FE/LE/CE is based on physical attack damage (rather than on mlvl like in 1.14). On Hell, a heavy-hitting melee monster can seriously hurt you if it rolls for magic damage.
But that's actually one of the things I like about 1.07; it's full of dangers, and carelessness can really punish the player.
What I also found is that the Bolts and Frost Novas from LE and CE monsters will roll for a critical hit like anything else. So when an army of MSLE bolts come your way, it's quite common for at least one of them to crit you.
And another random thing I bumped into is that when you're blocking Diablo's Hose or his Firestorm, block rate is actually not considered at all. You basically have a 0 (or 1?) frame block-rate against these attacks. (And his Hose = 17 missiles, in case anyone wondered.)
Anyway, for cow level, an assassin might actually be a very good bodyguard, because Blade Shield applies stuff like CB, knockback, slow, freezes target. So you can just skill BS to give it a long duration, and then stack stuff like knockback and slows target. Cows will never even reach the assassin. (Perhaps when cows are Extra Fast that they can swing once in-between BS attacks.)
Though, I've tested on Normal only, so there is a chance that the values are different for NM / Hell. (Probably not, but assumptions are no good ;P)
If you plan on leveling in 1.08 you'd better have some cannons, because that health multiplier table looks like a disaster ;D
They sure changed things often in Diablo 2. And I'm under the impression that in later patches, they use mlvl a lot more to calculate things. From what I've seen so far, 1.07 is just way more basic.
An example is that the bonus damage from SH/FE/LE/CE is based on physical attack damage (rather than on mlvl like in 1.14). On Hell, a heavy-hitting melee monster can seriously hurt you if it rolls for magic damage.
But that's actually one of the things I like about 1.07; it's full of dangers, and carelessness can really punish the player.
What I also found is that the Bolts and Frost Novas from LE and CE monsters will roll for a critical hit like anything else. So when an army of MSLE bolts come your way, it's quite common for at least one of them to crit you.
And another random thing I bumped into is that when you're blocking Diablo's Hose or his Firestorm, block rate is actually not considered at all. You basically have a 0 (or 1?) frame block-rate against these attacks. (And his Hose = 17 missiles, in case anyone wondered.
)Anyway, for cow level, an assassin might actually be a very good bodyguard, because Blade Shield applies stuff like CB, knockback, slow, freezes target. So you can just skill BS to give it a long duration, and then stack stuff like knockback and slows target. Cows will never even reach the assassin. (Perhaps when cows are Extra Fast that they can swing once in-between BS attacks.)
holy freeze mule is great for cows imo. That + oak sage + gizzly is enough of a tank to stop any small group, probably.
edit: by small group I mean up to 5 random cows or something... in HC you should always clear out a corner before you bring any mules in, unless it is one of those weird side-areas where you're very confident it is clear. Even then I am careful to bring in the tanks first since I don't want to ever risk my 98 sorc dying.
edit: by small group I mean up to 5 random cows or something... in HC you should always clear out a corner before you bring any mules in, unless it is one of those weird side-areas where you're very confident it is clear. Even then I am careful to bring in the tanks first since I don't want to ever risk my 98 sorc dying.
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GalaXyHaXz
New member
So I bought this for my 08 bowazon until that Windforce drops:
However, even though elite bows can't drop you can buy them from vendors in 1.07. Has anyone tried crafting one? It would theoretically be possible to craft a bow that does more damage than Windforce, with magic-only affixes. This was done on a testing character, simulating a perfect roll.
However, even though elite bows can't drop you can buy them from vendors in 1.07. Has anyone tried crafting one? It would theoretically be possible to craft a bow that does more damage than Windforce, with magic-only affixes. This was done on a testing character, simulating a perfect roll.
Prefixes
Cruel - 300% ED
Grandmaster's - 300 AR, 200% ED
Fools (clvl 99) - 1633 AR, 49 Max Dmg
Suffixes
Evisceration - 63 Max Dmg
Alacrity - 20% IAS
Larzuk - 3 Sockets - 15 IAS/40 ED Jewels
(Error on my part, forgot the crafted affixes. Would have life leech, life, and an extra 11% ed since 511% is the max)
Cruel - 300% ED
Grandmaster's - 300 AR, 200% ED
Fools (clvl 99) - 1633 AR, 49 Max Dmg
Suffixes
Evisceration - 63 Max Dmg
Alacrity - 20% IAS
Larzuk - 3 Sockets - 15 IAS/40 ED Jewels
(Error on my part, forgot the crafted affixes. Would have life leech, life, and an extra 11% ed since 511% is the max)
That's quite a nice bow for a mere blue one!
Unfortunately, dreams must be shattered:
First; Fool's doesn't exist in 1.07.
Furthermore, a Grand Matron Bow (qlvl67) caps out at alvl56, and a Hydra Bow (qlvl74) caps out at alvl66. This means that Cruel can indeed spawn (alvl51), but Grandmaster's can not (alvl69).
Master's (alvl56) can spawn though, which is 250 AR and 150% ED at max.
I haven't made a "proper" list of affixes myself, so dunno what you would want in stead of Fool's. The affix excel files are a bit of a mess, and a hassle to go through.
+% Damage to Demons would most likely be the best stat, had it not been bugged to not work with arrows.
According to the patch notes, this wasn't fixed until 1.09.
Don't forget that crafts will not generate more than 4 affixes, so you might actually want exactly those: Master's, Cruel, of Evisceration and of Alacrity.
A couple of nice GMBs have been posted in this thread, but since some were posted in the form of a picture rather than a read-out, you might not find all of them with a search.
Lastly, just fyi; clvl does not matter for the qlvl of the reward that you get from Anya. So if you'd want to farm them, or obtain at least 1 GMB, you do not have to bother leveling the rushee(s).
I personally have received a Hydra Bow at clvl 1!
(Weirdly enough, even while ilvl = clvl (the mentioned Hydra Bow was ilvl 1), the affixes were at least alvl30, and possibly higher (didn't really check). I doubt affix generation for these items are identical to crafting, but who knows. Not that it matters if you plan on crafting, of course)
Edit:
Btw, I'm under the impression that a GMB is an objectively better pick than a Hydra Bow: GMB has more min and more max damage, while speed, requirements and dexterity_bonus are identical.
There are probably a few extra affixes that a Hydra Bow can generate, but I doubt they are affixes you want, which would mean the GMB has more chance of generating the affixes that you do want.
Unfortunately, dreams must be shattered:
First; Fool's doesn't exist in 1.07.
Furthermore, a Grand Matron Bow (qlvl67) caps out at alvl56, and a Hydra Bow (qlvl74) caps out at alvl66. This means that Cruel can indeed spawn (alvl51), but Grandmaster's can not (alvl69).
Master's (alvl56) can spawn though, which is 250 AR and 150% ED at max.
I haven't made a "proper" list of affixes myself, so dunno what you would want in stead of Fool's. The affix excel files are a bit of a mess, and a hassle to go through.
+% Damage to Demons would most likely be the best stat, had it not been bugged to not work with arrows.
According to the patch notes, this wasn't fixed until 1.09.Don't forget that crafts will not generate more than 4 affixes, so you might actually want exactly those: Master's, Cruel, of Evisceration and of Alacrity.
A couple of nice GMBs have been posted in this thread, but since some were posted in the form of a picture rather than a read-out, you might not find all of them with a search.
Lastly, just fyi; clvl does not matter for the qlvl of the reward that you get from Anya. So if you'd want to farm them, or obtain at least 1 GMB, you do not have to bother leveling the rushee(s).
I personally have received a Hydra Bow at clvl 1!
(Weirdly enough, even while ilvl = clvl (the mentioned Hydra Bow was ilvl 1), the affixes were at least alvl30, and possibly higher (didn't really check). I doubt affix generation for these items are identical to crafting, but who knows. Not that it matters if you plan on crafting, of course
)Edit:
Btw, I'm under the impression that a GMB is an objectively better pick than a Hydra Bow: GMB has more min and more max damage, while speed, requirements and dexterity_bonus are identical.
There are probably a few extra affixes that a Hydra Bow can generate, but I doubt they are affixes you want, which would mean the GMB has more chance of generating the affixes that you do want.
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