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Vessel of Hatred

1.07 News, Info and Gossip

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AlienBoyz

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May 18, 2006
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1.07 News, Info and Gossip

Thought I would start a thread for general 1.07 news, info and gossip! Hopefully we can update this whenever we have something interesting to report, or just to say hello. :smiley:

So to start the ball rolling:

I just had a little beauty drop for me a +37 max damage grand charm. I think it was called a Serrated Grand Charm of Maiming. I must have had a pretty good roll! Dropped in hell cows IIRC which is a bit surprising as I usually don't get much from them beasties except some xp. My highest ever until this dropped was a +20 max damage GC.

I have also discovered that run speed makes a difference with some racks while rack running. It may not be run speed as such but time one is away from a rack. I know this sounds strange but I can reliably duplicate it. I have a map I run which drops a bone knife and a balrog skin. I have probably run it at least 500 times (so far no gold :cry: ) so I know the exact route to run and usually run it in the 50-53 second range. I have found a few inertia charms and a circlet with run speed since I first started running this, so decided to optimize the run for pure speed. I packed on all the run speed items I could and got the run down to around 45 seconds. However now the bone knife rack dropped a bardiche every time but the balrog skin rack still dropped balrog skins. Needless to say I got rid of the extra run speed items!

It is definately not a new route since I know exactly which route to run and I made sure I kept to the same route with the faster speed. The only thing that has changed was the run speed and by implication the time taken to reach certain racks.

One for the boffins to try explain I think, but perhaps useful as a parameter to play around with on a good running map.

:prop:
 
I don't know much about 1.07 charms, but sweet charm!

As to the duplicating rack items, it's to do with the seed, and random number generation, already well known.
If you do the same thing in multiple games (ie, take the same path without killing monsters to a rack,) the random number generator will generate the same random number :rolleyes:, resulting in the same item being generated.
This is used for rack running (See the 1.07 guide I think in the stickies, possibly also linked in Hrus' signature.)

Anyway, GL with your rack running (I think golds are 1 in 1000 from racks,) and let us know when you get that 1.07 Arcaines (and gib!) :grin:

Edit: Linky to 1.07 guide.
 
It is a rather nice charm! :smiley:

The point I was making is that the route stays exactly the same - therefore according to common understanding so should the drops. However - by changing ONLY the run speed, the drops can change as well.

This is not known or at least has not been mentioned AFAIK.

It is something I have suspected in the past, but I put it down to a rack being very sensitive to path or me not running the same route correctly. However the 2 racks are very stable and I can reliably duplicate the behaviour of changing runspeed.
 
Actually, it is known. It's to do with the random number generator, and the 'map' seed.

Each 'unit' (monster/rack/chest) has it's own randomly generated number, based on what you do.

If you run one way to point x, then run another way to point x, it will generate two different numbers once you reach x.

This is due to area seeds. One way gives an area seed of A, thus one set of monsters, etc. The other way gives an area seed of B, thus another set. This change then affects what item is dropped, compared to what might have dropped had you gone another way.
Going the same path, time is also likely to be recorded as a value. If you go slowly, the random number generator is likely to produce a different number, as opposed to running at a constant speed each run.

While I'm not going to reread the 1.07 guide again, I can almost guarentee you it's in there, as that's where my knowledge has come from.
 
Could it have something to do with if you move more slowly monsters are activated at different times/have more time to...do stuff? I don't know, that's an interesting find, though.

Are you sure it also isn't because your accuracy with clicking the rack is a bit off when you're moving that quickly? I've run into that before and that has altered the drop. I'm a little skeptical only because I've stopped for a few seconds on my way to a rack before and it hasn't affected my drops at all.

Nice charm, my best max damage has been +19. Lame, I know. I had terrible luck with good 1.07 charms. Oh well, maybe I'll be luckier in my restart.

I like the idea of a 1.07 gossip thread. I think I'm going to try to keep this bumped. Good idea!

On a related note, can anyone test out druid/necromancer/assassin rack-running to prove or disprove that the amazon is the only summoner that can change the seed? I'm not in a position to do so right now, but all you need to do is get a druid to lvl. 6 and to the forgotten tower. Pretty please? :smiley:
 
I've put up (I hope) the final version of my addendum to the 1.07 guide here and this answers your question about using minions from other classes to change the seed.
/shameless self promotion

The answer BTW is yes, you can use other classes (well, at least the necro).

Congrats on the charm - that is the best I've ever heard of so well done. My best so far is +22 with some AR.

Re the time being used as a factor in determining seeds, I believe it is (and its in the addenda), although it is one that only rarely makes a difference, I have diffinately noticed that it can.

Onto the sharing of good luck, I've recently found/racked these which I'm pretty happy with.

Vampire Gaze
Grim Helm
Defense: 252
Durability: 21 of 40
Required Strength: 58
Required Level: 41
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 87
Fingerprint: 0x7a8efd13
+100% Enhanced Defense
Magic Damage Reduced by 15
Damage Reduced by 25% <----------------------nice
8% Life stolen per hit
8% Mana stolen per hit
15% Slower Stamina Drain

and these

Prefix 1034 Grand Charm of Quality
Required Level: 22
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 88
Fingerprint: 0x5169427c
+13 to Maximum Damage <-------------- would have liked more but what can you do?
Fire Resist +18%

Prefix 1073 Grand Charm of Quality
Required Level: 22
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 88
Fingerprint: 0x561b9532
+13 to Maximum Damage <-------------same
Poison Resist +21%

and

Prefix 1036 Grand Charm
Item Version: Expansion
Item Level: 88
Fingerprint: 0x4977c9eb
Fire Resist +35% <------------------- nice
 
Thanks for the heads up on the minions. I was 99% sure that it would work, but it's great that you confirmed it.

I just read over your addendum, and I'll be sure to keep it bumped when I have stuff to say about it. Awesome work, though.
 
How certain are you guys that this is a minion related effect. As AlienBoyz pointed out changing the time it takes to get to the rack alters the drop. Is it possible then that simply pausing (ie casting a spell) is what causes the cycling of the rack?
 
100%, honestly. Not to sound cocky or anything but my testing with it has been infallible. Like I mentioned in here, I have paused for a few seconds in front of a rack before clicking it, and my results haven't changed. Since that's the case, then I'm positive that the rack-switching is caused by the summons--not the added time to cast them.
 
ItAllGoesWhite said:
100%, honestly. Not to sound cocky or anything but my testing with it has been infallible. Like I mentioned in here, I have paused for a few seconds in front of a rack before clicking it, and my results haven't changed. Since that's the case, then I'm positive that the rack-switching is caused by the summons--not the added time to cast them.
Click to expand...

To add to the debate, my thoughts are that it is actually the time you spend running affects the seed, not time spent in general. This would explain why changing FR/W can sometimes change the drop whereas pausing on the route doesn't seem to.

I'd also back up the summoning thing as other spells, blizzard, holy shield etc have no effect on the drop.



 
I'm skeptical of r/w speed affecting the seed at all, and I know this is becoming a trend of mine, but I'm currently not in a position to test this theory.

What I'd like to see is someone with say, 100% faster r/w speed run a rack until they're consistently getting one item, and then take all their faster r/w charms and equipment off and run it again. If the rack consistently drops a different item, then I'll begin to believe it.

At this point, I'm still leaning towards writing it off as an issue of accuracy in where you're clicking the rack--I've found the seed can be very finicky at times.


Edit:

I should note that if your r/w speed does affect the seed, then there might be some interesting uses for that knowledge. Off the top of my head I'm thinking a paladin with maxed vigor could manipulate the seed much like amazons, necromancers, druids, and assassins can.
 
Yiuman - great work on that addendum!

Also, nice gaze btw. I'm jealous - I still have to rack my first decent 1.07 unique. My only unique rack finds so far are 2 Titan's for my zon. I am currently running a Balrog Skin + Bone Knife map so sooner or later I got to get something decent!

Still early days though - I have only found 4 Sazabi. I seem to remember someone saying thay found something like 18 before seeing the gold
:shocked:
Considering I would eventually like to rack 2 of these - I am probably in it for the long run.

Some bad news. I loaded up my zon with every +max damage charm I could find, including that +37 one and I couldn't notice any significant increase in killing power with LF. :cry: I am sure it will make a difference with melee damage but not a lot it seems with LF. Nor does +Crushing Blow seem to work with LF. I had Rattlecage + Goblin Toe on and again no noticable killing power increase. Perhaps with more than 100% CB I might see a difference - I will test again later.

As far as runnning speed making a difference I am pretty much 100% sure it does - but only on some racks. My bone knife rack changes to a bardiche every time with the increased run speed items. The rack is not sensitive to where I touch it - top, bottom and sides all produce a bone knife or bardiche, depending on run speed. Without the extra run speed items the rack produces a bone knife every time - with a very occasional ghost spear if I don't run the route correctly (pretty rare these days as after 100's of runs I pretty much run the route exactly)

I even tried removing inertia charms 1 by 1 and found a sweet spot where I sometimes produced bone knifes and sometimes bardiches. Adding more run speed produced only bardiches and removing run speed produced only bone knifes.

However in all cases the other rack on the map always produced the same item - Balrog skins. So not every rack is sensitive to run speed.
 
AlienBoyz said:
Yiuman - great work on that addendum!

Also, nice gaze btw. I'm jealous - I still have to rack my first decent 1.07 unique.
Click to expand...
It will come. I'm slightly jealous of your bone knife rack - I've never found a stable one, my (as yet unborn) singer is crying out for two of them (geddit?). Do you use a run counter - I find that it helps me maintain my sanity when rack running to know exactly how many runs I have done.
AlienBoyz said:
Some bad news. I loaded up my zon with every +max damage charm I could find, including that +37 one and I couldn't notice any significant increase in killing power with LF. :cry:
Click to expand...
Oh well, it would have been nice if the damage from charms was added to the damage of the javs which was added to the lightning bolts, but as the damage isn't supossed to be added to the bolts anyway..... its still a bonus. Just look at it that you have freed up lots of inventory space for FR/W/res charms etc.

AlienBoyz said:
Nor does +Crushing Blow seem to work with LF. I had Rattlecage + Goblin Toe on and again no noticable killing power increase. Perhaps with more than 100% CB I might see a difference - I will test again later.
Click to expand...

CB will only affect the mob that the javelin actually physically hits (IIRC) and so won't affect your overall killing speed. Over 100% CB shouldn't make a difference (IIRC CB is capped at 95% anyway). Personally, unless you are relying on CB to deal with LIs, I'd just keep the CB equipment in your stash/ATMA and put it on for boss killing.

AlienBoyz said:
As far as runnning speed making a difference I am pretty much 100% sure it does - but only on some racks.
...
So not every rack is sensitive to run speed.
Click to expand...

This agrees 100% with my own experience. To reiterate and expand on my earlier post, rack seed is affected by your actions, this includes which route you take and also how long you spend taking it. An interesting experiment might be to try running and walking the same route.

The fact that it doesn't affect every rack just ties in with what we know about some racks being more 'stable' and less sensitive to which route you take than others.

@ItAllGoesWhite A Paladin using vigor (or not) could well give you a different drop (depending on how stable the rack is), thus potentially doubling the number of items a rack could drop. However, unlike the minion casting, this would be a one time shot - you can't multiple cast vigor! You could however try it running and walking thus giving you four drops. Hmmmmmm, interesting.....



 
yiuman said:
It will come. I'm slightly jealous of your bone knife rack - I've never found a stable one, my (as yet unborn) singer is crying out for two of them (geddit?). Do you use a run counter - I find that it helps me maintain my sanity when rack running to know exactly how many runs I have done.
Click to expand...
It took me a while to get one, and you want two? :shocked:

CB will only affect the mob that the javelin actually physically hits (IIRC) and so won't affect your overall killing speed. Over 100% CB shouldn't make a difference (IIRC CB is capped at 95% anyway). Personally, unless you are relying on CB to deal with LIs, I'd just keep the CB equipment in your stash/ATMA and put it on for boss killing.
Click to expand...
CB is not capped.



 
I decided to start trying to get some levels on my amazon. Got to 71 last night on solo hell cows.

I honestly don't know how people get melee chars that don't use AoE like WW to hi levels - must have the patience of Job!
 
Hey all. I've only ever played 1.07. Im quite a casual player, currently have a lvl 43 Frenzy Barb in Act 3 NM. My baby (as far as charms go) is a:
+1 to Sorceress Skill levels
+19 to max damage.

Not that good i know.

I also have a rare jewel with 3 mods:)

Go Hard. 1.07 REPRESENT!
 
Welcome!

If that really is +1 to all sorc skills charm that is an awesome charm! I didn't know they could drop!
 
I'm guessing you mean +1 to a certain sorceress skill tab. +1 to all skills doesn't exist on any magical charm. Too bad:laugh:

AB: Cows ftw! That's how I got my sorceresses up to 81. Cows, cows, cows. It's infinitely better than anywhere else in 1.07. Oh, and I don't understand how characters without crowd control level up, either. That's why I abandoned my 'zerker:p
 
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