*shrug* believe what you will. Things you said didn't make perfect sense, your argument that drixx claiming sk cop made more sense than claiming some super esoteric thing he made up himself was specious at best, as were your arguments that stopping the kills was so much more beneficial to him that only he could have done, and I had issues with most of your other assertions.
Mass Effect Mystery Box Mafia Game
- Thread starter Sathoris
- Start date
Here is Mine:
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/E7ULFncDrq7
By the way, plot twist. I was the SK, and I only had one god damn shot. Even the vig had more shots then me. Two (Three) biggest things I am upset about in this game:
- 1 shot only. I had no ability to plan or manipulate who was alive and as an anti-town faction this just does not work. It doesn't. I was essentially and incredibly complicated survivor that had to deal with not only living to the end, but apparently avoiding investigations. There wasn't even a normal cop anywhere to be seen, just a SK cop. How is that fair?
- When the town decided to No Lynch. I was forced to use the shot and was not told that I would be forced to use the shot until that point in time. My entire strategy was based around not using the shot because I would have needed to use it to win essentially. Using it any earlier was not even a viable strategy, not in the least. The town strongarmed me into a situation that shouldn't have been allowed. The towns weapon is to lynch to kill, if they refuse to use that tool then they should lose. I feel like I should have at least gotten a shared win out of the situation instead having a severe disadvantage handed to me very late in the game, when I only had one shot to begin with. Yes, technically the town does not have to lynch, but technically I don't have to kill. So why should I be placed into a worse position because I essentially am forced to agree with something? If I at least knew I would have been forced to use it if the town decided to no lynch I would have taken out Drixx early, and I would have been in an excellent end game situation.
- Numbers not even taking any of my arguements into consideration, not in the slightest. Its very aggravating putting so much effort into something to essentially be disregarded. I'm pretty sure my wife is pissed at me for putting so much time and effort into something like this late into the night and it didn't even matter in the least. And like I said, no one can be that stubborn in mafia without an investigation, or being scum.
The only upside? I could use the kill during the day, but my strategy was so blown to pieces at that point it didn't even matter.
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/E7ULFncDrq7
By the way, plot twist. I was the SK, and I only had one god damn shot. Even the vig had more shots then me. Two (Three) biggest things I am upset about in this game:
- 1 shot only. I had no ability to plan or manipulate who was alive and as an anti-town faction this just does not work. It doesn't. I was essentially and incredibly complicated survivor that had to deal with not only living to the end, but apparently avoiding investigations. There wasn't even a normal cop anywhere to be seen, just a SK cop. How is that fair?
- When the town decided to No Lynch. I was forced to use the shot and was not told that I would be forced to use the shot until that point in time. My entire strategy was based around not using the shot because I would have needed to use it to win essentially. Using it any earlier was not even a viable strategy, not in the least. The town strongarmed me into a situation that shouldn't have been allowed. The towns weapon is to lynch to kill, if they refuse to use that tool then they should lose. I feel like I should have at least gotten a shared win out of the situation instead having a severe disadvantage handed to me very late in the game, when I only had one shot to begin with. Yes, technically the town does not have to lynch, but technically I don't have to kill. So why should I be placed into a worse position because I essentially am forced to agree with something? If I at least knew I would have been forced to use it if the town decided to no lynch I would have taken out Drixx early, and I would have been in an excellent end game situation.
- Numbers not even taking any of my arguements into consideration, not in the slightest. Its very aggravating putting so much effort into something to essentially be disregarded. I'm pretty sure my wife is pissed at me for putting so much time and effort into something like this late into the night and it didn't even matter in the least. And like I said, no one can be that stubborn in mafia without an investigation, or being scum.
The only upside? I could use the kill during the day, but my strategy was so blown to pieces at that point it didn't even matter.
Oh, and those two facts were both linked. Not killing was most beneficial to him in the cases you presented, BECAUSE he claimed sk cop. That's a terrible corner to back yourself into. By choice.
So...why didn't you start shooting earlier? Just so you could make the claim that it was most beneficial to drixx to not shoot until the last moment?
So...why didn't you start shooting earlier? Just so you could make the claim that it was most beneficial to drixx to not shoot until the last moment?
Ah. only one shot. Alright, that answer my question. If you had during the day yesterday and proven the claim you made as you made it, there's a very very good chance you would have lived through today out of sympathy for the situation you were in.
I pointed out issues with most of your arguments man, as you posted them, up until the couple posts you made where you essentially said screw this afterwards. At that point I was equally tired of responding to your assertions that I didn't believe and didn't find wholly logically sound, so I stopped doing it. I was convinced you were scum from the post I made where I said "you're not making your case any stronger."
No its not, its perfectly viable cover, and he would have been able to start killing if the situation warranted him to, the claim allows for a very open ended strategy with lots of room to move around. I would easily consider using a claim like that if Drixx hadn't actually had the role. It has a ton of upside if you use it right.
But it doesn't matter, game over. Move on, whatever.
For me as the SK, anything, and I mean anything, would have been better than going up against you and Drixx. I would have taken Goryani and CG over the both of you combined but I didn't have much of a choice.
And winning by sympathy is not winning. Its essentially the equivalent of self voting.
Which since we are now in post game should be addressed. Self Voting should not be used as a strategy. Its NOT a strategy, its poor play.
Hi.
I role-blocked you. I had that instead of the cop ability I claimed.
Skipping the day phase was triggered during the day, so did not interfere with Ankeli performing his kill on Jcakes.
That ranks right up there with Gorny's NCIS Serial Killer.
There was a lot of talk about SKs witholding their shots; I'm surprised nobody mentioned that by definition a serial killer must always kill every night. Of course, with the revelation that you had a single shot, that makes more sense. It's already stupid hard to win as an SK - there's no reason to hinder them further by taking away vital tools.
Why is Drixx+myself something you'd prefer not to face, and why, if that's the case, did you choose to create that situation for yourself?
Also..after reading your QT: The certainty I had came from the fact that when I made that vote on you yesterday, I was as certain as possible that the game would be over with that post, and I refused to second guess myself because, like I said, I'm pretty confident in myself. You can view that as me not caring what others had to say, and it certainly made me less likely to be swayed by anyones arguments that I would have been otherwise, but the fact of the matter is your arguments were good but fallacious enough that they weren't comforting. Regardless of how bad Drixx's posts were, yours sounded like a SK grasping for straws to swing the game back their way. His didn't.
I've self voted twice before. Both times as town, with the intention of being available enough to unvote if necessary, and use the information gained from those who chose to vote for me afterwards. In both cases it resulted in the town stopping votes on me, and I gained no information at all.
I think it's a viable strategy used either way, and it adds another layer of complexity and wifom to peoples actions. If someone self votes, are they doing it because they're absolutely town? Are they doing it because town would never believe scum would self vote? Are they doing it because they just want more information?
Questions like that make the game interesting. I think if there wasn't a stigma against self voting, which seems to have arisen from people using self voting to essentially rage quit from the game, that players would have adjusted to it and there would likely be a standard response, much like lynch all liars, or lynch all neutrals...in this case, lynch self voters. That's the most reasonable response that cuts through all the BS, and prevents the town from mislynching because a scum player is crazy enough to vote for themselves. If I hadn't done it twice already for information, whenever I do get a scum role, I would have totally used it to stall a lynch on myself.
My personal QT:
http://quicktopic.com/50/H/ktrtvSyu2nka
Dead Thread:
http://quicktopic.com/50/H/CQctrsakGMe
Fred and CG Mason Buddies 4 evar!
http://quicktopic.com/50/H/QcCnAbnCGfRaN
I'm okay with sharing the mafia QT as well, but will wait for input from Laarz and Ankeli.
http://quicktopic.com/50/H/ktrtvSyu2nka
Dead Thread:
http://quicktopic.com/50/H/CQctrsakGMe
Fred and CG Mason Buddies 4 evar!
http://quicktopic.com/50/H/QcCnAbnCGfRaN
I'm okay with sharing the mafia QT as well, but will wait for input from Laarz and Ankeli.
Ah, that makes sense. It was bothering me all game basically. I was seriously considering that Drixx had to be the fourth mafia, and there was no SK...but then there was no kill that night, and mafia would have kept killing and got me lynched immediately.
Ugh refresh I hate you. So, after reading the dead thread...Goryani thinks that not paying attention to the arguments made today would have been the best thing to do. So yay! One person thinks me following my reads and not being swayed is terrible, and the other thinks it's the right thing to do, so cool. 
There should have been more scumhunting effort put into things yesterday, but I was honestly over it and just wanted to see who the sk killed and move on from there.
There should have been more scumhunting effort put into things yesterday, but I was honestly over it and just wanted to see who the sk killed and move on from there.
Oh, and CG you lied about one more thing: That you couldn't self target with your reinstate ability.
Laarz I'm sorry I threw your scummy self out of an airlock. I don't need more players auto killing me in the future. Just pyro is enough.
- Apr 8, 2006
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I agree with Goryani's assessment of LYLO. I've seen some incredible posts and incredibly believable posts at the end of games. Look at Pyro's sole survivor claim today. If there hadn't been 10 other people who would lose if I was wrong, I might have been tempted to unvote him ... the post was that good.
As for the self-voting thing ... I think the intent of its use is important. If someone is rage quitting out of the game, then that's not cool no matter how they choose to do it. There are times when a town player's death will clarify the situation and give the town a lot of info, and of course it's obviously a gambit open to scum because it's hard to imagine scum putting their life on the line like that.
The obvious meta move in response to self voting is to simply give the self voter their wish and kill them. That will pretty quickly make it something that people only use if it will actually help their team win.
As for the "forcing the kill" thing, I think that's just one of those things. The particular group of 3 townies left at the end of the game weren't willing to keep killing in the absence of info. At that point the game goes into infinite loop. It couldn't end while you could still kill, but the longer it continued to go on, the more we would want to see that kill before making a decision.
As for the self-voting thing ... I think the intent of its use is important. If someone is rage quitting out of the game, then that's not cool no matter how they choose to do it. There are times when a town player's death will clarify the situation and give the town a lot of info, and of course it's obviously a gambit open to scum because it's hard to imagine scum putting their life on the line like that.
The obvious meta move in response to self voting is to simply give the self voter their wish and kill them. That will pretty quickly make it something that people only use if it will actually help their team win.
As for the "forcing the kill" thing, I think that's just one of those things. The particular group of 3 townies left at the end of the game weren't willing to keep killing in the absence of info. At that point the game goes into infinite loop. It couldn't end while you could still kill, but the longer it continued to go on, the more we would want to see that kill before making a decision.
I think self voting shouldn't be allowed in games. I personally hate it as well.
Thanks for hosting Sath! Nice work numbers and drixx!
Thanks for hosting Sath! Nice work numbers and drixx!
There are VERY rare circumstances where it is useful, in my eyes. As scum, you may self lock yourself so to save your partner from looking scummy or just adding pure WIFOM. Again, rare, but I have seen it used successfully.
As town though, never. Please just don't.
Thank you, Sath!
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