Post 4 has all roles and information. BPC or I will post night actions eventually. They just need to be organized.
Breaking Bad Forum Mafia Game
- Thread starter Bad Ash
- Start date
Thanks to Bad Ash and BipolarChemist for designing and hosting the game. Congratulations to Noodle for being Noodley and winning.
I can't help but notice the last game we had mafia + SK but rarely a double night kill also resulted in the SK winning.
Lot's of good things in this game. However, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.
I'll be curious to see the night actions. I speculate that a whole lot of NK immune players were targeted this game. Some intentionally. Some via redirection. At any rate, three NK immune characters is too much for one game.
The lynch numbers were too high for this game. Alternatively, town needed more votes. I'm not just saying that because town almost one when the SK was almost lynched. Treestump. Vote blocker. 4 neutrals. All raised the number of votes required to lynch but didn't make it easier to do so. At no point in the game did a lynch occur without substantial anti-town help. At the start of the game there were only 11 town votes among 18 players. That's not enough. It's not as bad as 7 mafia vs 11 town, but it's closer to that than 3 mafia vs 15 town.
Treestumps (non-voting ones) shouldn't count toward the number of votes required to lynch. Or a lower number of votes required to lynch. Or plurality vote rules instead of majority vote rules. Something.
I really really really liked my voteblocker + X-shot lynch immune TOWN character. The abilities oozed scum, yet the role was town. Brilliant. I'm not sure how I could have pulled off looking townie with that role at mass claim time if it weren't for the global anti-town roleblock (only a single townie was vote blocked - yes, I went there - so maybe I had a chance). I'm not sure if that interaction was intended but it worked.
I don't see any ability that causes night chats. I'm not sure how flub and I got to talk.
That redirector role is POWERFUL. Parrot powerful. Too powerful. I gather the mafia strongman charges were meant to counter this role but there is a discrepancy between the 2x shot strongman and the unlimited shot redirector. The SK couldn't do a thing.
I'm sure Walt, Jesse and Hank roles were highly thematic but those abilities and progressions doesn't make sense to those who aren't intimately familiar with the theme. It's difficult for those roles to make a believable claim. The late game abilities of elite bodyguard and PGO can be game changers. I'm not sure how mafia/SK can win if Walt and Jessee aren't killed off early.
I like the idea of the Police Informant role. However, in general, I dislike the "you can't mention X" method of post restriction. This one is narrow enough it's probably OK but it's still a put-off.
The wording of Skinny Pete and Badger's wincon sounds closer to killless second mafia than to neutral survivor. Could they share a win with town/mafia/SK/all/none?
I can't help but notice the last game we had mafia + SK but rarely a double night kill also resulted in the SK winning.
Lot's of good things in this game. However, too much of a good thing can be a bad thing.
I'll be curious to see the night actions. I speculate that a whole lot of NK immune players were targeted this game. Some intentionally. Some via redirection. At any rate, three NK immune characters is too much for one game.
The lynch numbers were too high for this game. Alternatively, town needed more votes. I'm not just saying that because town almost one when the SK was almost lynched. Treestump. Vote blocker. 4 neutrals. All raised the number of votes required to lynch but didn't make it easier to do so. At no point in the game did a lynch occur without substantial anti-town help. At the start of the game there were only 11 town votes among 18 players. That's not enough. It's not as bad as 7 mafia vs 11 town, but it's closer to that than 3 mafia vs 15 town.
Treestumps (non-voting ones) shouldn't count toward the number of votes required to lynch. Or a lower number of votes required to lynch. Or plurality vote rules instead of majority vote rules. Something.
I really really really liked my voteblocker + X-shot lynch immune TOWN character. The abilities oozed scum, yet the role was town. Brilliant. I'm not sure how I could have pulled off looking townie with that role at mass claim time if it weren't for the global anti-town roleblock (only a single townie was vote blocked - yes, I went there - so maybe I had a chance). I'm not sure if that interaction was intended but it worked.
I don't see any ability that causes night chats. I'm not sure how flub and I got to talk.
That redirector role is POWERFUL. Parrot powerful. Too powerful. I gather the mafia strongman charges were meant to counter this role but there is a discrepancy between the 2x shot strongman and the unlimited shot redirector. The SK couldn't do a thing.
I'm sure Walt, Jesse and Hank roles were highly thematic but those abilities and progressions doesn't make sense to those who aren't intimately familiar with the theme. It's difficult for those roles to make a believable claim. The late game abilities of elite bodyguard and PGO can be game changers. I'm not sure how mafia/SK can win if Walt and Jessee aren't killed off early.
I like the idea of the Police Informant role. However, in general, I dislike the "you can't mention X" method of post restriction. This one is narrow enough it's probably OK but it's still a put-off.
The wording of Skinny Pete and Badger's wincon sounds closer to killless second mafia than to neutral survivor. Could they share a win with town/mafia/SK/all/none?
Flatterer...
Great Job Noodle, very proud of you!!
I stole from Goldtru. I stole from Noodle in order to kill crawlingdeadman. I didn't consider him a serial killer but another vigilante.
I must get more brain ideas...
Goryani's QT
flubbucket and Goryani's QT
I'm torn on this. The rule, not the tweaking.
I gather the rule was in place this game because of all the interactions between specific characters.
I can see Tortuga wanting to find Hank. However, that only becomes an issue when Hank, the cop, makes himself publicly known to everyone in the thread, including mafia. Town power roles must balance the need to divulge information with staying alive to obtain more information. I like opportunity costs. There should be opportunity costs. The global post restriction removed that strategic decision from the players.
I call this a post restriction intentionally. Looking at Tortuga's role, I would assume the following is legal and won't result in modkill: "Hi. I'm a police informant. I know how many mafia are alive at any point of the game. I can help verify all this daykill and double skill stuff. But I can't speculate out loud how many there are. I can only say this to a specific character. Though I know who this character is, I also can't say whom without being modkilled. I can try to find this character each night." It avoids every "can't say X" but would probably be quite effective. Would that be considered breaking the game? If yes, how would Tortuga know?
And now we're into the post restriction discussion. But I digress...
In this game, I think it would have been fine for players to name claim. From my point of view, names meant next to nothing and there was no rule prohibiting ability claiming. As a highly themed game, mafia should have been given fake claims and I don't think prohibiting players from name claiming is a substitute for providing fake claims.
flubbucket and Goryani's QT
I'm torn on this. The rule, not the tweaking.
I gather the rule was in place this game because of all the interactions between specific characters.
I can see Tortuga wanting to find Hank. However, that only becomes an issue when Hank, the cop, makes himself publicly known to everyone in the thread, including mafia. Town power roles must balance the need to divulge information with staying alive to obtain more information. I like opportunity costs. There should be opportunity costs. The global post restriction removed that strategic decision from the players.
I call this a post restriction intentionally. Looking at Tortuga's role, I would assume the following is legal and won't result in modkill: "Hi. I'm a police informant. I know how many mafia are alive at any point of the game. I can help verify all this daykill and double skill stuff. But I can't speculate out loud how many there are. I can only say this to a specific character. Though I know who this character is, I also can't say whom without being modkilled. I can try to find this character each night." It avoids every "can't say X" but would probably be quite effective. Would that be considered breaking the game? If yes, how would Tortuga know?
And now we're into the post restriction discussion. But I digress...
In this game, I think it would have been fine for players to name claim. From my point of view, names meant next to nothing and there was no rule prohibiting ability claiming. As a highly themed game, mafia should have been given fake claims and I don't think prohibiting players from name claiming is a substitute for providing fake claims.
Both pieces of information were highly relevant this game. Especially the Noodle thing. Why didn't you claim them?
Just a hint to future mods.
I guessed that flub was the source of my night chat before flub posted in the night chat. Yeah, it was a surprise to me (and later it didn't seem a surprise to flub) but there was moderator sources that let me to believe flub was the initiator. First of all, the chat was created during the middle of the day phase. It happened to be a short time after flub's last post of that day phase. About the right time for flub to send in a daytime action and have the mods act upon it. All of which are consistent with the bartender type role. Second, while my name was listed in the QT title, flub's name was listed first.
Maybe those were hints given to me, but maybe not.
I guessed that flub was the source of my night chat before flub posted in the night chat. Yeah, it was a surprise to me (and later it didn't seem a surprise to flub) but there was moderator sources that let me to believe flub was the initiator. First of all, the chat was created during the middle of the day phase. It happened to be a short time after flub's last post of that day phase. About the right time for flub to send in a daytime action and have the mods act upon it. All of which are consistent with the bartender type role. Second, while my name was listed in the QT title, flub's name was listed first.
Maybe those were hints given to me, but maybe not.
This I disagree with. The two strongest town players were immediately removed from the game before having even 1 chance to use their night actions and the town basically won...TJ just chose not to honor his wincon. Every game is not the same obviously, but I don't think they needed more votes. Maybe less vote restrictions, but not more votes.
Agree times 100. Biggest mistake of the game. He should have been removed upon an attempt on his life. It was a big **** up.
Flubb stole night actions that were not supposed to be indicative of alignment. Mod decisions were made to ensure this was the case. I don't even know who he targeted that night (I think it was numbers or gold), but it was a balance decision.
WAAAAAYYYY to powerful. Like way way way way. Although I think it would have been less powerful if people had played better?
Jesse and Walt and Hank are EASILY EASILY claimable without name. The roles are questionable, but they were irrelevent because they never came into play.
Police Informant was vanilla townie without being vanilla. Interesting role with a chance to provide information without being vanilla.
SK wincon was to eliminate everyone, it was basically the only wincon they would not have won with.
First of all, goldtru, and the town, I'm sorry I lost us the game.
So, after reading the dead thread, and finding it made me more irritated with the last two days of the game than I was before, I have a couple things I need to say, and I apologize to anyone who feels it is unnecessary or mean or destructive or anything.
TJ: I feel that your attitude thus far about our games is rather toxic, and if you are unwilling to take the time to adjust to the group and just enjoy the journey, without imposing your own expectations and judgments on how everyone else plays the game, I would be quite glad if I never saw you in another of our games.
Logoutzero : Basically the same goes for you. Throwing a fit and potentially wrecking a game which was advertised as "probably broken" and "bastard" because you don't understand or agree with something is petty and hurts other people. This is a group game, and your actions affect many others and their time.
Balance wise, I think what goryani said was correct, about there being too few town votes. Two mislynches, and the town now NEEDS neutral votes in order to ever push through a lynch. That's not okay imo. Holly should have been replaced with jane, keeps more cool interactions in and removes a nk immune character.
thefranklin: N1 you redirected thomas' actions onto thomas. So...did the mods change that, or what?
TJ: At no point prior to the final day of the game did I stop caring. Your unvote+the mods removing my nk immunity+thefranklin deciding to have a town death happen=me not caring at all who won anymore, at which point I just asked goldtru what she thought, and voted with her.
Goldtru is very busy with real life, this is something you don't know because you haven't played with her, but she just doesn't have the time to keep up with everything that is posted, or even check all the time. Hell, in the first game I played with her she 100% openly claimed what town had realized was a scum character, because she hadn't realized the town had made that connection. Not having the time to play the game to the best of your ability does NOT mean you don't care enough about the game.
I, when presented with a number of individuals who I have no particular reason to believe to be town, will frequently post a list of basically everyone, with a bunch of reasons why I think they're scum. I've done this before numerous times. It's not lazy, it's to see how people respond to my thoughts. At that point in the game, I did care who won, and I was very concerned with trying to get the scum lynched. In addition, I'm almost always here at day end, and me not placing a vote at that time didn't mean I felt a mislynch was better. By the time the last 20 minutes of the last day came around, I almost decided to not change my vote to noodle, just because his knowledge of drixx's and sathoris' alignments was so scummy, but I was over it by then, didn't see much chance of goldtru showing up because the past trend had shown she wasn't able to check in before day end, and didn't look forward to the extra 72h of game time a mislynch would have caused.
Goryani, given that you believe that the voting numbers were off, would you, as scum, still have been upset about the survivors siding with the town?
Everyone else: neutrals abandoning their win cons because playing with the town is more entertaining. A **** move, or something that's acceptable?
So, after reading the dead thread, and finding it made me more irritated with the last two days of the game than I was before, I have a couple things I need to say, and I apologize to anyone who feels it is unnecessary or mean or destructive or anything.
TJ: I feel that your attitude thus far about our games is rather toxic, and if you are unwilling to take the time to adjust to the group and just enjoy the journey, without imposing your own expectations and judgments on how everyone else plays the game, I would be quite glad if I never saw you in another of our games.
Logoutzero : Basically the same goes for you. Throwing a fit and potentially wrecking a game which was advertised as "probably broken" and "bastard" because you don't understand or agree with something is petty and hurts other people. This is a group game, and your actions affect many others and their time.
Balance wise, I think what goryani said was correct, about there being too few town votes. Two mislynches, and the town now NEEDS neutral votes in order to ever push through a lynch. That's not okay imo. Holly should have been replaced with jane, keeps more cool interactions in and removes a nk immune character.
thefranklin: N1 you redirected thomas' actions onto thomas. So...did the mods change that, or what?
TJ: At no point prior to the final day of the game did I stop caring. Your unvote+the mods removing my nk immunity+thefranklin deciding to have a town death happen=me not caring at all who won anymore, at which point I just asked goldtru what she thought, and voted with her.
Goldtru is very busy with real life, this is something you don't know because you haven't played with her, but she just doesn't have the time to keep up with everything that is posted, or even check all the time. Hell, in the first game I played with her she 100% openly claimed what town had realized was a scum character, because she hadn't realized the town had made that connection. Not having the time to play the game to the best of your ability does NOT mean you don't care enough about the game.
I, when presented with a number of individuals who I have no particular reason to believe to be town, will frequently post a list of basically everyone, with a bunch of reasons why I think they're scum. I've done this before numerous times. It's not lazy, it's to see how people respond to my thoughts. At that point in the game, I did care who won, and I was very concerned with trying to get the scum lynched. In addition, I'm almost always here at day end, and me not placing a vote at that time didn't mean I felt a mislynch was better. By the time the last 20 minutes of the last day came around, I almost decided to not change my vote to noodle, just because his knowledge of drixx's and sathoris' alignments was so scummy, but I was over it by then, didn't see much chance of goldtru showing up because the past trend had shown she wasn't able to check in before day end, and didn't look forward to the extra 72h of game time a mislynch would have caused.
Goryani, given that you believe that the voting numbers were off, would you, as scum, still have been upset about the survivors siding with the town?
Everyone else: neutrals abandoning their win cons because playing with the town is more entertaining. A **** move, or something that's acceptable?
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Thanks guys, I had fun and I always like seeing new roles!
I personally don't like it. Of course you are allowed to do whatever you want, but I first of all don't get why you would do it (after all it's about winning), and second of all it throws off the intended game balance.
That ofc doesn't mean that you shouldn't tell town that you are siding with them.
I personally don't like it. Of course you are allowed to do whatever you want, but I first of all don't get why you would do it (after all it's about winning), and second of all it throws off the intended game balance.
That ofc doesn't mean that you shouldn't tell town that you are siding with them.
Congrats Noodle. Come join me in Rio!
My QT - excuse the complaining about my role. I do think it was a very hard role and I needed a lot of things to go correctly to win, fortunately it succeeded.
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/P5ubdqSNka3
I personally think people should always play to their wincon. It does not matter who else wins so long as you do. You can (and should) tell town you will work with them, but always be prepared to betray them.
My QT - excuse the complaining about my role. I do think it was a very hard role and I needed a lot of things to go correctly to win, fortunately it succeeded.
http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/P5ubdqSNka3
I personally think people should always play to their wincon. It does not matter who else wins so long as you do. You can (and should) tell town you will work with them, but always be prepared to betray them.
I agree completely and appologize (mainly to the mods). It was difficult to predict that my participation was such a mismatch ahead of actually trying though, but you can rest assured that I will not play again.
I decided that very early on actually - rule changes on the fly was the first yellow light that told me this might not be for me.
If you read my character, it had some challenges - I made preparations for coffee-variants and lyrics, but they were quickly thrown away by the mods as being too easy, so they made adjustments to my character along the way, which was another huge yellow light.
The line:
3. Must include a well known song lyric with each post
became
3. Must include multiline songlyric preferably from the chorus of a song on the all time top-50 list.
and
5. Must mention a different kind of coffee bean, or coffee brand in every post
became
5. Must mention one on a list of specified coffee brand names.
Also they felt that my 3 posts day 1 with 5 emoticons was a tad on the low side - they wanted at least 5.
I simply cannot stand playing something so changing - I take words mentioned in rules to be very literal (such as a treestump cannot vote for instance). Not only did my research into mafia rules (to become more acquainted with the game) prove almost worthless, but most of the preparation for playing my role had to be thrown out. This was most certainly not a good starting point for me.
Thank you to BPC for helping host. He kept the game more balanced than I would have on my own and handled so much in terms of nights and days that I couldn't have done it without him, literally with the baby. Thanks dude.
Edit: don't have the energy for a back and forth so removed some stuff
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
Edit: don't have the energy for a back and forth so removed some stuff
Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk
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Town lost the ability to lynch scum after D3. That's early. Far too early for a game with 5 anti-town that need to be lynched. Further lynches only occurred because a couple of neutrals, in my opinion, went against their wincon by taking the town's side.
Yes. I might not be upset mid-game, depending on if I thought you and Goldtru were really a second mafia faction (and I was thinking FoE + Noodle were on one team and you + Goldtru were on another). But I'd be upset post-game.
Not substantively different than TJ wanting to make sure the neutrals lost. I might have a different opinion if you thought about multiple killing factions, but I think you admitted you didn't think about that.
Fair points. I would say I expected this game to go quicker than our average ones, but one Pharphis was lynched that went out the window. I think that happening made some broken pieces go away and brought others to the surface though.
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I'd be lying if I said I didn't like the part where I died. That was hilarious and unexpected. I was 50/50 on reading marahumm's shot as a joke shot 
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