Zombies invade Atlantis. Stargate zombie Mafia game.

[AnnualAntAnswers]

Also, before I go to bed I am Harry Maybourne, for any of you SG fans out there.

Haha, Samantha Carter: "Maybourne, you are an idiot every day of the week; why couldn't you have just taken one day off?!"

 

[AnnualAntAnswers]

Also, before I go to bed I am Harry Maybourne, for any of you SG fans out there.

Wait, there's more on the wiki and it's not as hilarious:

"Deviousand good at manipulating others for his own ends, Maybourne has at times provenhis own loyalty to Stargate Command and particularly SG-1. This is shown when he regularly helps Colonel Jack O'Neill in various situations. Healso expresses a personal dislike for Colonel Frank Simmons although Maybourne was theone responsible for recruiting Simmons into the NID in the first place."

It's right there, "devious and good at manipulating others for his own ends." That sounds bad, BPC. Then it says that he's sometimes not a bad guy, though he did get kicked out of the American program, right? And it says he was "responsible for recruiting Simmons." It's a mixed read but the wiki says right on it that Maybourne has the potential to be devious and to do recruiting.

 

[Jcakes1]

Wait, there's more on the wiki and it's not as hilarious:

"Deviousand good at manipulating others for his own ends, Maybourne has at times provenhis own loyalty to Stargate Command and particularly SG-1. This is shown when he regularly helps Colonel Jack O'Neill in various situations. Healso expresses a personal dislike for Colonel Frank Simmons although Maybourne was theone responsible for recruiting Simmons into the NID in the first place."

It's right there, "devious and good at manipulating others for his own ends." That sounds bad, BPC. Then it says that he's sometimes not a bad guy, though he did get kicked out of the American program, right? And it says he was "responsible for recruiting Simmons." It's a mixed read but the wiki says right on it that Maybourne has the potential to be devious and to do recruiting.

Yep that basically sums up Maybourne, devious. Not sure what to make of this.

 

[korialstraz]

On a completely separate point I am not sure, but I feel I might be the only one that knows the lore of SG but I found pharphis's flip very very interesting. For one Martouf is not present in Atlantis, Two he is considered a good guy (being a Tok'Ra*), Three I am incredibly surprised that he is a Zombie given that he is host to a Symbiote.

My conclusions based on this is that we cannot tell any humans alignment.

* A Tok'Ra is kind of related to the Goa'uld. Specifically speaking the Goa'uld are a parasitic organism that take over hosts (normally humans) and give them godlike powers (long life, glowing eyes etc.). A Tok'Ra is a Goa'uld that enters into a symbiotic relation ship with a host, sharing the body of the host and in return providing them long life. Martouf isa human who is host to a symbiote by the name of Lantash. Often in SG, the dual person Martouf / Lantash is just referred to as Martouf. I found it surprising that Martouf could become a zombie, given that his symbiote should protect him. My only guess from a law point of view is that Martouf no longer has his symbiote and thus I suspect that all humans could potentially be zombies.

Actually you're not alone, and you bring up some interesting points.

I'm surprised that a person that should have a symbiote which is capable of protecting him from such threats flipped zombie. It could just mean that lore doesn't play as big a role in the game as we think? It could just be that it doesn't matter who the zombies try to recruit, although I wouldn't put it past TC to place some quite specific conditions on abilities. Just see the previous SG game and the Wraith's ability to feed on humans only.

Blast it, that's true. I say "Blast it" because I usually don't like to lay everything out this early. Although my role PM said "yet." Which tells me there is definitely at least one recruiting function. As it stands now, I have no win condition, no abilities, and no alignment. Which explains why I've only acted defensively - I don't know which, if any, team I will end up on. No sense in weakening a team I might end up joining, or helping a team I may end up opposing.

Wow, it's early for a role claim that doesn't involve Leo!

Would you care to share your name with us, so we can work out what possible risk you pose from being recruited?

Wait, there's more on the wiki and it's not as hilarious:

"Deviousand good at manipulating others for his own ends, Maybourne has at times provenhis own loyalty to Stargate Command and particularly SG-1. This is shown when he regularly helps Colonel Jack O'Neill in various situations. Healso expresses a personal dislike for Colonel Frank Simmons although Maybourne was theone responsible for recruiting Simmons into the NID in the first place."

It's right there, "devious and good at manipulating others for his own ends." That sounds bad, BPC. Then it says that he's sometimes not a bad guy, though he did get kicked out of the American program, right? And it says he was "responsible for recruiting Simmons." It's a mixed read but the wiki says right on it that Maybourne has the potential to be devious and to do recruiting.

If my memory serves me correctly, Maybourne might've been a scheming, sly douchebag, who everyone hated. But he also did help out SG-1, and IIRC in the end he did exactly what he needed to do to save the programme, and for one episode become the hero.


Got to say it's an interesting development that happened while I was asleep.


Numbers, AAA and Jcakes are giving off scum vibes, Gory still in the same boat. Drixx feels like town.

I'm not sure though if Jcakes is scum, or if it's just pharp that tried to make it look that way.

 

[korialstraz]

Oh shoot the vote!

Vote: Pyro


Question for everyone: What are your thoughts on Noodle, and should he be (with current information in hand) be a suspect for tomorrow? A couple scenarios can unfold, so what are your thoughts on this?

 

[Drixx]

Oh shoot the vote!

Vote: Pyro


Question for everyone: What are your thoughts on Noodle, and should he be (with current information in hand) be a suspect for tomorrow? A couple scenarios can unfold, so what are your thoughts on this?

He admits he's recruitable. Unless we believe there's a pro-town recruiting force in addition to the zombie force, Noodle probably has to be killed because from what he says he's a temporary neutral, and now that he's outed it seems likely he's going to be a zombie tomorrow.

 

[ThunderCat]

My new question is now if Goryani had all this information before the night ended and he made his decision? Is it possible you could answer this TC?

I can answer. Yes, I had that info during the night phase but not during the day phase. The questions I asked during night phase led to those rules/restrictions being made known to me.

That about sums it up.

You have to keep in mind that the Voting Stick mechanic is something I came up with a few hours before Twilight started. After Goryani won it, I sent him a PM roughly describing the ability. That followed numerous questions during Day 1 and Night 2 which lead me to post the information on the first page so that future owners won't have to ask the same questions as Goryani.

Also, a tall man cannot hide in short grass.



Vote tall Day 2 (9/10):
IWantToUseNumberInMyName - 1 (Moar)
Jcakes - 2 (Pyrotechnician, AnnualAntAnswers)
Pyrotechnician - 7 (BipolarChemist, Drixx, Jcakes, Bad Ash, djmbbandie, CoolguyBad, korialstraz)

 

[IWantToUseNumbersInMyName]

You're right. I don't agree with it. Your interest in pharphis as the second voter happened before pharphis was lynched. You were interested in pharphis 2nd vote in post 273 but none of the others. That's the post you said the second vote wasn't worth voting pharphis for... Let's see, pharphis had 5 votes at that point. There was 4.5 hrs left in the day? You voted no other potential suspects. You didn't even name other potential suspects.

Recap:
You had a not-pharphis post when pharphis needed 5 more votes with 4.5 hrs left.
You didn't look for a not-pharphis lynch target at that time or the rest of the day.
You made a lynch-parphis post at the last minute. A post not needed to secure a lynch.
You vouch, several times, for anyone voting pharphis.

I believe that pattern is about as textbook mafia as it gets. flubbs pattern is also suspicious and that has been mentioned. CoolGuyBad also has a suspicious pattern: absence during the period of the day when a serious lynch train exists and no posts from then till the end of the day.ff Yes, my own pattern is far from textbook townie.



You call AAA a lurker yet you didn't seem interested in learning more about AAA the lurker. You intervened. You denied AAA a chance to show you he could respond like a townie. Your question could have came after AAA responded and your questions to kestegs and pharphis would not have been any less ____ (fill in the blank).



You don't keep track of votes in that handy text file? Wait, I see some votes there. While tongue in cheek, that's also serious. I think you are quite capable of counting votes and as mafia, would do so. I don't think that not knowing the vote count implies innocence.

See above and my past statements regarding a more or less scummy late vote. Experience tells me it's insanely rare for zero mafia to be on the pharphis lynch train. I'm looking for which pharphis voters were bussing - either vigorous or reluctant - and your D1 play looks very suspicious. Just as I'm looking for which non-pharphis voters are scum.

So, a few points. First, I never called AAA a lurker. I believe i was BPC who did that, when he asked me why I was suspicious of noodle over other lurkers which he listed. I went down the list he gave me and said why I wasn't concerned with them.

Votes: Everything in that files besides the lines next to myself(obv townie) and zokar(dead) was added *after* the kill flip, so I could have proper context for everything. I figured out who voted for pharphis, then went through all the posts of everyone else who hadn't voted him, to see who in that group had defended him and who had attacked him, to give me a shorter list of primary scum candidates.

Late vote: I deliberately chose to not vote pharphis earlier in the day so I could see who chose to vote him, because as I said, I wanted information for myself since I know I'm townie, if I vote for him it teaches me nothing. With that in mind, I took a nap with my alarm set for 30 minutes before the end of the day. I woke up, caught up on the thread, and thought he had 10 votes, but wasn't certain. I didn't want a mislynch to occur, so I went back through the thread to recount all the votes since TC's previous count, and realized before I got to the last page that I had a minute left to post, so I abandoned my count and voted just to be certain we had a lynch.

Again, if I hadn't voted yesterday, would I have seemed more or less scummy?

And...

Vote: Pyrotechnician

If he flips scum, since my vote was driven by cop results, and thus I'm joining another train that seems guaranteed, am I more or less scummy than before?

I do get your point Goryani about the suspiciousness of my vote, but given that there are more people who voted for him than not, it seems like the best way to approach scumhunting right now would be to focus on those people who didn't vote, unless you think his entire team determined very early on that pharphis was a lost cause and thus all voted for him? It just seems like we have better odds finding scum among those who didn't vote for him, than among those who did.

 

[flubbucket1]

In a hypothetical Vig/Scum scenario, who do you think was vig'd? Gwaihir or Sathoris?

I see no way to answer that question other than a coin flip.

How will shooting me lead to discussion regarding the vote stick?

There would also be the discussion should you turn out to be a townie.

Nope, not scum in any previous games. That's a very obvious conclusion to arrive at however, and I don't see why I would, as scum, say something so potentially incriminating. This is actually the action of someone who was vt last game and found it incredibly boring, so decided to apply themselves more regardless of role to try to make the next game interesting. Also, if you haven't noticed, I've already made a few mistakes in referencing other peoples actions and words. The point isn't to keep my facts straight, but to allow me to make informed decisions on my own, instead of having to rely on everyone elses logic as I have both of my previous games.

What mistakes have you made? Why wouldn't you want to keep your facts straight?? Why haven't you addressed my questions from post #409??

Yep that basically sums up Maybourne, devious. Not sure what to make of this.

Korialstraz answered this well enough. pharphis' character was listed as a "good guy" in the wiki, so information from there will make for dubious decision making here.

I will agree the information from the alignment cop investigations, and subsequent lynch, will yield more information right now.

Vote: Pyrotechnician

 

[Caluin Graye]

This here is where I'd vote Pyro, but I see that it would be the locking vote and I'm not ready to do that yet.

 

[Caluin Graye]

"Deviousand good at manipulating others for his own ends, Maybourne has at times provenhis own loyalty to Stargate Command and particularly SG-1. This is shown when he regularly helps Colonel Jack O'Neill in various situations. Healso expresses a personal dislike for Colonel Frank Simmons although Maybourne was theone responsible for recruiting Simmons into the NID in the first place."

It's right there, "devious and good at manipulating others for his own ends." That sounds bad, BPC. Then it says that he's sometimes not a bad guy, though he did get kicked out of the American program, right? And it says he was "responsible for recruiting Simmons." It's a mixed read but the wiki says right on it that Maybourne has the potential to be devious and to do recruiting.

Yep that basically sums up Maybourne, devious. Not sure what to make of this.

I'm not overly fond of lore arguments. Best to take things at face value - BPC claims alignment cop, one of his non-town reads confirms a result. Doesn't need to get much more complicated than that.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Not to get off topic but I would very much like to know the answer to this question: Is pharphis usually a target that gets NK or lynched early? I assume that's what you're insinuating.

pharphis has a strange tendency to either get killed/lynched in the first day or two, or make it until the end of the game. There are no half-measures with him.

 

[Caluin Graye]

You hadn't given off even a hint of cop vibe all game prior to this post. I actually had someone else noted as "cop?" because of a couple things they said.

Note that Drixx was looking for the cop.

I'm also confused by the assertion that you have been allowed to investigate more than once per night. That seems broken as far as balance is concerned, and now that you've claimed, there seems to be little reason to withhold the mechanic that gave you extra investigations.

Note that Drixx is questioning the cop's claim, looking for more details on his role.

Assuming we have a doctor, and said doctor is not dead, and said doctor didn't target you last night (all fairly safe premises I think), then you should live tonight and be around tomorrow, so I understand why you aren't giving out any townies you found yet, but I don't see any reason to imply that you are some sort of super cop and then give a point for people to stick on.

Note that Drixx is suggesting what a specific power role should do tonight.

I mean it's pretty easy to test you, but that bit in your claim about having had more than the expected 2 investigations seems unnecessary. It's like how when someone constructs a fiction they often add in extra details to make it seem real, but when someone's telling the truth they often leave out details. It seems completely unnecessary to tell us that. I would expect you as a cop to post a much shorter post given us the two non-town results. The long post with extra detail feels a bit off.

Note that Drixx is suggesting that the cop claim could be false.

The biggest danger in testing you is that we kill a town power role (Pyro) in exchange for getting you tomorrow. If you're telling the truth you are essentially trading your life to take 2+ non-town out, so it seems like the best move is to believe you and vote for Pryo while wondering about the strange claim.

Note that Drixx believes that Pyro is a power role, and cautions that the the town could be making a mistake while simultaneously participating in said mistake.


Drixx: You asked a game or two ago why people always think you're scum. Posts like these are a good example of why I constantly get scum vibes off of you.

 

[Drixx]

Note that Drixx was looking for the cop.

To be completely fair, I tend to look for indication of power roles in people's posts. I don't see this as something only scum should do. If I can be reasonably certain someone is a pro-town PR, then I'm far less likely to do something silly like start a lynch wagon against them based upon what strikes me as scummy but is in reality just an innocent slip on their part.

Note that Drixx is questioning the cop's claim, looking for more details on his role.

I always doubt claims CG. If I had waited I would have seen Noodle confirm it and the post you are using to try and paint me in scum colors wouldn't exist in the same form it does now. But that's not how it happened. I saw the claim and parts of it struck me as off. I think bringing up the extra investigations was a mistake. I think that prior to Noodle unexpectedly coming in with an admission, questioning such a claim made perfect sense. There was no proof to back BPC's claim up, and I don't believe I've ever seen an investigator of any kind who got multiple investigations each night.

Are you telling me that if the post immediately prior to yours was BPC's claim you would have taken that at face value and absolute believed it? Somehow, I doubt that very much.

I find it interesting that you quoted from my first post right after the claim, but not my later post where I point out that BPC revealing the more investigations than normal mechanic doesn't help town at all but could possibly help the zombies. Are you cherry picking my posts in order to only put things up that make me look bad?

Note that Drixx is suggesting what a specific power role should do tonight.

I did what now? My speculation on how events are likely to proceed is just that: speculation. It's based upon logic and reasoning how the various parties will approach tonight, but I think I came to the best logical conclusions. Every time I speculate on how I expect someone is likely to act, you accuse me of giving that person orders. That's simply not the case, and I should hope that any and all PRs would do their own thinking on what to do with their abilities.

Note that Drixx is suggesting that the cop claim could be false.

Yep. I don't believe in just accepting claims as truth. There were things in BPC's claim post that didn't make sense. You have the benefit of hindsight and Noodle coming forward and basically confirming BPC's claim. I didn't when I made that post.

Note that Drixx believes that Pyro is a power role, and cautions that the the town could be making a mistake while simultaneously participating in said mistake.

It may be helpful for you to re-read my post. I was pointing out the worst case scenario if BPC was scum and the claim was bogus. The worst case is that we would lose a town power role and in exchange tomorrow we would kill BPC for the false claim.

Best case is that BPC's claim is legit (and that BPC is a sane alignment cop) and that BPC gets another night for more investigations. In this case, BPC (a town power role) trades himself for 2+ non-town players.

Middle of the road case is that BPC's claim is legit but he dies tonight and he still trade himself for 2 non-town, which is a good tradeoff.

You don't think through the possible scenarios when you see a claim? As much as you scrutinized and cherry picked from my posting to try and build a case on me, I find it a bit hard to believe that you just take claims at face value.


As for "participating in said mistake.", it's the only rational play. BPC's claim at the time had no evidence or proof aside from his word, and certainly claiming to get more than the usual 1 investigation per night was suspect. It didn't help the town to know that, and it also seems OP. The only way to know for sure; however, is to test the claim. Best test is to kill the named anti-town.

Drixx: You asked a game or two ago why people always think you're scum. Posts like these are a good example of why I constantly get scum vibes off of you.

Or maybe you just used knowledge that came into the game after I made that post and applied that knowledge to my post, as if I could have known. You also seem to be in places putting intent behind something I said that simply wasn't there (my speculation on BPC's chances of surviving the night based upon how I would expect various roles to act).

Finally, you confused my pointing out the worst case scenario still being a win (if Pyro is a town power role we lose a town power role and kill a scum) with me defending Pyro and/or claiming he was a town power role.

One of the biggest problems I have with your wall of quoting me and making me look all sinister is that there was another later post after I saw the Noodle reveal, and also Bad Ash and I argued a bit about whether it was surprising to have an investigator with more than 1 investigation per night. In those posts you can see my point out why I think it was a bad idea for BPC to share that bit. Why didn't you quote those?

In basically all games we play here, it is possible to cherry pick parts of what people say and put sinister motives and suggestions to the quotes. You certainly did a good job making my skepticism of accepting a cop claim at face value and thinking through the implications of it look about as sinister as possible.

Btw, in all of this making me look sinister, I think I missed your thoughts on the implications of a cop who investigates more than one person per night and the implications of what Noodle said about his role. Should we believe Noodle? Should we assume he's only a potential zombie recruit and thus kill him tomorrow, or could there be a pro-town recruiter also? There's an awful lot of interesting things to consider.

In any case, Djmbbandie should be happy now. This certainly should qualify as a wall o' text.

 

[flubbucket1]

^
That is indeed a Wall of Text.



A moment of silence please as we re-moisturize our eyes.

 

[Kestegs]

Did you read BPC's post? We've had 2 nights, and BPC claims to have had more than 2 investigations. In what forum are you playing where any investigator role gets to investigate more than one target per night? I think it's information that didn't need to be revealed (doesn't help town at all to know that BPC had more than the usual 1 per night investigation but could help zombies tremendously) and until Noodle surprisingly confirmed, I was fairly skeptical of the claim because of it.

You posted your skepticism after Noodle claimed.

 

[Kestegs]

I had already stated pretty early on in the day that I was not leaning towards lynching pharphis.



Vote: Pyrotechnician

Three points that I have to make with this post:

1) Not too sure if I fully understand why you wouldn't come out with all the information you have at this time. I can think of two or three reasons right now but unless you want to reveal them yourself, I'm going to keep quiet on this.

2) Neutrals, this is interesting. How many neutrals are in the game? Are neutrals the only ones that can be targeted by recruiting factions? Actually, it would make a lot of sense if this was the case. This would give the zombie faction a reason to kill instead of blindly recruiting. How much should we trust Noodle? If there is only one kill tomorrow, there may be a high chance of a recruit attempt. WIFOM move could occur, though. I think we have to lean towards the safe side for now, but keep in mind things may change depending on the scenario tomorrow night.



Not to get off topic but I would very much like to know the answer to this question: Is pharphis usually a target that gets NK or lynched early? I assume that's what you're insinuating.

He has a history of getting himself lynched early. The only time I can remember him making it to late game is when he was virtually unkillable (dark tower)

 

[Moar]

I don't accept BPC as a townie yet. If we have 2 factions (and I believe that to be so) he could very well be a bad guy giving us a bad guy of another faction. My gut feeling right now is that he's scum. I have no evidence or anything. It comes mostely from his claim post and Noodle's rather easy confirmation. Because of that I would we rather lynched Noodle today to see if he is actually a Neutral. He could be BPC's scum partner confirming his result to try to paint him town. Tomorrow then he can claim to have been recruited when we are about to lynch him to disguise that he was never Neutral. I really think lynching Noodle is the right play for us.

Unvote: Numbers
Vote: Noodle

I'm pretty sure someone will come in and lock Pyro anyway, but if not, there are still some hours for discussion. I will vote for Pyro if there's no chance to switch to Noodle close to end of day.

 

[Moar]

Unvote: Numbers
Vote: Noodle

Yeah, that bolding. Also I'm away for an hour now to make dinner.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Kind of amusing cos your theory is just as out there.

I didn't have a chance to post this before, but this is also part of the reason I think pharphis is connected to Antswers. Note his responses when pharphis voted for him.

It may be out there, but I still think its a better than yours zombiecake.

Aw huney bunny! It's no crush, I just think you're scum!

So sweet BPC, why don't you just tell me what you really think...

I don't know how free I'm going to be tomorrow, as I'm with family for the weekend, so I'll do this now.

I wouldn't claim now normally, as it is still early but considering the information I hold, I think it's pertinent that I get it out sooner rather than later!

I am an alignment cop and I've had a few investigations thus far, how many I'm not wiling to reveal quite yet. Two of my investigations have come out to be Non-town results.

My first investigation was on Noodle, who was revealed to be Neutral. I chose Noodle for the obvious reason that he is normally a lurker. I also wanted to pressure him yesterday, but that seemed to work with me doing very little.

Another investigation was on Pyrotechnician, who was revealed to be Anti-Town. I chose Pyro for two reasons: The first being he is a good player from what I have seen, the second being that I had no clue what he could be, I had no read on him.

Do what you will with this information, but with the possibility of recruiting I think the best option would be to lynch Pyro!

?Vote: Pyrotechnician

Hm, no wonder you were so concerned with me making an appearance. Of course being the subject of your investigation I am going to have to argue with your results. Either I was switched, or your investigation was misdirected, or your results are not truthful/reliable. Apparently everyone doesn't want to give me a chance to respond before piling the votes on me though so whatever I say apparently has no worth at this point.

If lynching me will help provide information on both yourself and Noodle than I will accept being lynched as the town will only lose a vanilla townie. However I would obviously prefer not since it will result in a mislynch.

I wanna hug you right now. This was much easier than expected.

Noodle being helpful just confuses me, and openly admitting to being a neutral confuses me even more.

This here is where I'd vote Pyro, but I see that it would be the locking vote and I'm not ready to do that yet.

Thank You CG, the only gentlemen in this group I see.