Solar Ice
Well-known member
Since you have answered that, perhaps you would answer this as well?
Batman - The Dark Knight Mafia Game
- Thread starter Pyrotechnician1
- Start date
Since you have answered that, perhaps you would answer this as well?
That's an absurd thing to say. Do you really think for a split second that the conversation will go any differently than, "Well, we HAVE to lynch the interogatees, otherwise we waste a day and a lynch opportunity."? I could have sworn you've actually played this game before, but your comment calls that into question.
I said basically the same thing but earlier than BA, did you not notice? Anyway, I wanted to respond to this.
See the cheer's game for lots of additional townie lynches.
See last game for 2 days "wasted" by gory not lynching bpc. Although I used to be a strong advocate for "always lynch every opportunity" I've since changed my mind and think that those pushing for an additional lynch CAN be deemed scummy.
But how can you think someone is likely to be scum in the twilight phase? It's completely randomized. I suppose using the interrogate/release mechanic can be used to get people to post and maybe you can get a read on them that way? But what you seem to be saying is that you're going to let the rest of us use the mechanic so you can get a read on people and then you will use the mechanic?
I just recently started playing again a couple games back, so I would hesitate to make a response from memory, simply because it's likely to be wrong. Let me instead say that Noodle has a reputation for lurking through games. In the case that he lands a town power role, getting to skate through without much notice could be very helpful, but he could also be scum or a scum power role and then it's detrimental. It seems to me that the ideal is that everyone participates at least to the degree that there's something to judge them on.
I don't recall saying that Noodle was posting more than normal. I would hesitate to make a judgment on "normal" mostly because of what I said above. As far as I understand the mechanic for this interrogate is that we have an option to do a second lynch tomorrow but we are not required to. Since we can also release folks, I figured if someone has an odd vibe or makes a slip today, I can swap the interrogate onto them.
I'm still not exactly sure where I said Noodle was posting more. It seems like you are reading your experience into my post as if I had your experience, which I don't I'm afraid.
As I said above, Noodle has a reputation for lurking through games. You clearly have a superior knowledge of the major players as compared to me. As far as interrogating you, I suppose there's a bit of gambler's fallacy involved since you were just mafia in the last game we played together, plus in my most recent experience with you, you were active enough to get a read on.
I'm not sure I fully agree. I definitely don't agree with #2. Interrogate seems to be a way to force people to make non-spam posts in the twilight phase. I think wherever we put our interrogate votes at the end of twilight should probably be people we want to have our options open for. Basically we've been given a restricted 2nd lynch which we can or cannot use as we choose. It is restricted in that we have to select the people today, somewhat blindly, but we aren't locked into necessarily using the second lynch. Obviously the Baldur's Gate game was a shining example of a situation where two day one lynches swung in the town's favor, but that cannot be assumed to be likely to be the norm, imo.
Look at the games I've been involved in on these forums. Mafia always have power roles. It seems highly likely that they're going to have them in this game too. I also do have some inside information. I remember the game's host saying that he wanted to run the setup by TC to ensure that it's properly balanced before running it, which implies interesting roles and a need to ensure both the scum and town teams are fairly well balanced. Of course, all of us had that "inside" info if we were paying attention.
I put my interrogate on Noodle to try and inspire more posting. I believe his response was that he wouldn't be forced to play any certain way. I'm not sure leaving it on Noodle is going to be necessarily all that productive, but we also have 27 more hours to decide where the final interrogation votes will land.
Thanks for asking my opinion thefranklin
See the most recent mini-game where we had no lynches the first two days, and it actually helped the town to a victory.
I just want to note that Caluin Graye quoted this post and then tried to say that in it I said Noodle was posting more than usual and therefore that's why I interrogated him. I'm not sure if CG was confused or intentionally trying to misrepresent me, but I do a good enough job misrepresenting myself thanks.
FredOfErik
New member
Why are you trying to make this a discussion of what is beneficial to town? This has basically nothing to do with this game in specific, it is a general discussion of preferred game mechanics. The goal of the game mechanic is to make it balanced and not lean towards town or scum and whether or not one kind of start is more or less beneficial to town will of course differ from game to game depending on PR setup and other factors..
However, that is still irrelevant to my opinion which simply is that I find twillight starts less interesting that normal starts. You seem to for some reason be wanting to draw the connection that anti-twillight -> anti-town, which I find suspicious and ridiculous.
coju
Well-known member
Yes, Bad Ash mentioned that 'that sounds like the bat man' and I wanted to know who he was referring to, as I didn't notice. I then realized, while looking up the correct syntax of "threat level midnight," that this is a game of mafia, where everything isn't made up and the points do matter. So, I wanted to not know who Bad Ash was thinking of, and decided to put my mafia-cap on.
Solar Ice
Well-known member
Due to the fact that I completely disagree with what I see as being your negative view (reading to me as close to a complaint) towards having two Day(Daylike) phases sandwiching a Night phase in post 22. Twilight = more discussion as well as better informed Town decisions going into said Night. That Mafia do not like either of those goes without saying. Preferring Night instead of Twilight *is* scummy to me.
Caluin Graye
New member
What's the point of interrogating someone and putting them up for a lynch if you're not going to bother following through?
The Interrogate is a vote. The Release is an unvote. As town, you shouldn't be voting for someone you're not willing to see lynched. So why is this any different? Just because you have a longer period of time to back out of it? Ultimately, what's the difference between 24 hours and 72? If you think someone is scum, will another two days of them defending themselves change your mind?
Caluin Graye
New member
Voting connections are worthless if there's no risk involved. Mafia will happily vote for each other if there's little to no chance the lynch will follow through. See last mini-mafia game and my vote on CDM on Day 2.
Town lynching town is a byproduct of of the process. It's unfortunate, but going to happen. You can't not use the tools available to you simply because you're going to hit the wrong targets.
A general question to the town: If this was a standard day start with a standard lynch instead of the Interrogate mechanic, would you be pro-lynch or anti-lynch?
Caluin Graye
New member
I wasn't asking for a specific answer. I was just trying to get you to consider that Noodle lurks as both town and mafia. His lurkiness is not a good indication of his alignment.
It's possible. Wouldn't be the first time I've done that. I focused on you more than Jason Maher because you made the 'lurker' case against him right after he had a small flurry of posts interacting with Bad Ash. Yet, you didn't make any note of anyone else lurking. Your interrogation vote comes after a few others voted Noodle. To me, it looked... opportunistic.
(I originally had these last three posts in one mega-post, but decided to split them up to facilitate easier reading and responses)
Depends on whether I find the potential lynch candidates likely to be scummy (let's be serious here, it doesn't look like anyone is going to be lynched until halfway through the day, by which point most people have already made up their minds for the day)
FredOfErik
New member
I would've said the same thing about any twillight phase in any other game. I am not preferring Night starts over Twillight because of anything related to this game, my allignment in this game or any other possible factor that could lead you to tell anything about whether or not I am town.. I have been clear about this and explained it multiple times.
Would you also be suspicious of me, if I said I generally wasn't a fan of the cop role? How about if I didn't like mafia teams having PRs - would that make me town? Do you consider the players who praised the twillight phase more likely to be town than those who expressed dislike towards it?
I am going to refer to my previous post:
Your argument is nonsense, and it seems like nothing more than a hilariously failed attempt to find an easy target to set up for the D1 lynch.
Interrogate: Solar
I think that Goryani demonstrated very effectively last game that sometimes you don't lynch just because you can. Generally my thought process is that the town has one way to eliminate the scum: lynching. Therefore, the town should always lynch. Goryani's play in the mini-game has caused me to re-consider holding that hardline stance although for the life of me I have no idea how he knew so surely BPC was a townie ... but it's a good thing he did.
I disagree with your first premise. The interrogation is a way the players can put 2+ people into a pool for a potential 2nd lynch on day 1. It also strikes me as a way to get people to talk about the game and not just spam at the start also. Whether or not to do a 2nd lynch (prosecution) probably depends. It's very possible that the 2+ people who are available to prosecute participate and play well and we have a situation like the last game where we don't use.
Conversely, the most ideal outcome would be if there is a party host in the game, and the party host is night killed on night one, and the person who targeted the party host is one of the people up for prosecution.
I dunno. I think we have some very clever players in our games, and what seems like a meaningless vote can come to mean a lot as the game progresses.
I agree that Town Lynching happens, but I disagree with your overall premise. It happens because enough people suspect the townie might be scum because of something they say or do, or because the mafia manage to get a wagon going on them without arousing suspicion. I don't think the town should just randomly lynch. There should be some reason to vote for someone. Lynching just to lynch is just bad odds really.
I feel like the town should lynch if there is any kind of reason to suspect someone. Day 1 obviously there tends to be the least to go on, but there always seems to be someone who does or says something odd and puts a target on themselves.
I think it's more a case of me catching up with several pages of posts and deciding early on the interrogate Noodle and not changing my mind by the time I caught up with the thread.
Kestegs
Active member
Well then you've got some mixed up scumdar. Like I said, it's nothing to do with this game (foe said this too) twilight just feels like practice to me. Nobody can get lynched so there's not much at stake. You could also easily argue that it benefits mafia just as much as town. It gives them the opportunity to sniff out a power role and make an informed kill rather than a random one, and they will have multiple people looking for power roles so they are more likely to find one.
Pyro lynch, as always.
At this point - by looking at posts, interrogates, questions, and responses to figure out who is more likely to be scum or more likely to be town. How does randomization of roles change that? Not sure what you mean about mechanic use, but I intend to us it to "pre-vote" on someone I feel is scummy, and not for someone I feel is quiet. As CG stated earlier interrogate is only useful if there is some threat behind it, so unless we actually plan on lynching an interrogation target, I don't see any point to interrogating. And while I can see pointing the threat at lurkers to get them to talk more, I think it more useful to point it as people I think are likely scum.
Except in very specific cases, if the town has an opportunity to attempt a lynch, it should be attempted.
So you are saying that if you don't find any of the people with the most votes to be scummy, you just don't vote?
I remember Gory's point being that you don't vote someone you believe is town just to get a lynch. That is very different than not working to get a lynch. In fact, I remember Gory working quite hard to get a BA lynch.
Pyrotechnician1
New member
Right, as always.
Count as of #139:
Noodle(3): JasonMaher, Bad Ash, Drixx
Bad Ash(2): coju, Noodle
BipolarChemist(2): crawlingdeadman, pharphis
omgwtfbbqpwned(1): flubbucket
crawlingdeadman(1): Solar Ice
Drixx(1): thefranklin
Solar Ice(1): FredOfErik