Create Your Own Role Mafia game

[Goryani]

Actually, after re reading those rules are a bit confusing , the 4th one seems to take precedence over the other 3, and it makes it sound okay.

Nein! They must all be followed.

"I am the cop" is OK. (refers to information but doesn't quote)
"My role PM says I am the cop" is not OK. (violates rule 3)
"Role: Cop" when the PM says "Role:Cop" is not OK. (violates rule 4)

Malevolent was referring to a situation which is no longer applicable to this game so I didn't see a need to step in. However, if someone makes a similar statement about THIS game, then, at a minimum, a friendly warning will be forthcoming since it would violate rule 3.

 

[Caluin Graye]

I'm not against people claiming what role they had, not that it matters because mafia can't lie because we know which roles are in the game so we gain no useful information this way.
Analyzing the results when mafia will lie about their targets is wasting our time.

I'd rather we discuss who people targeted and why. Effects of the roles are more ambiguous and that is what I'm against analyzing every day.

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I still disagree, however. Every time we make the mafia claim something, they either have to tell the truth (which works against their win condition usually), or they tell a lie, which increases the chance they get caught. Both are win/win in my book. Therefore, I think we should definitely proceed with the 'next day' claims.

Hmm, I thought you were misinterpreting my suggestion, but maybe I misread. What info from day one claims could be used during the first 24 hours of day 2?

Biggest thing that jumps to mind is the Kingmaker. Namely, the person he named as king the following day. For instance, let's say I'm Kingmaker today. Tonight, I'd choose someone to be King. Tomorrow I have a completely new role, claim that I had Kingmaker yesterday, and possibly divulge who the King is today. Is that helpful to town? Probably. But it does create the possibility that the town tries working in some lynch shenanigans, to which we spend half a day trying to work out some convoluted plan to confirm town and lynch scum at the same time.

You seem sure enough that you would be still be around Tomorrow to make your proposal, to state that you made a mistake in making it Today...

The capital Ts in 'tomorrow' and 'today' seem odd to me. Just a statement.

 

[thefranklin]

No votes yet? Aren't we allowed to? I am going to place one.

Vote: Gwaihir

Reasoning isn't the strongest, but its the post I quoted. He could easily have been making a generic bland blah blah statement, but if we want to read into everything that people wrote, this elicits a vote. I know I am town and was seeing at how quickly the town can lose a lot of members with the roles. Gwaihir took the opposite approach to the roles and noted a lot of ways for people to survive...survive his ttacks maybe?

Mal and Sath are front runners for the can o spam IMO. And yes, I think this is possibly the most important role because we can very very easily be used by scum to avoid a lynch without us knowing they are scum.

I noticed the exact opposite of you - I don't really see a ton of ways townies die quicker than the normal pace. What makes me nervous is I saw a ton of ways for mafia to keep their players from being lynched and get townies lynched instead.

From the quote, my thought was we lynch the last laugh, get his alignment, and then lynch the next person to get him back if he was townie - basically confirming a townie or mafia. Upon rereading, that doesn't work as we do not get the alignment of the person killed.

And really, spammer scares you the most? It can be pretty easily combated, and is relatively obvious. The one that scares me the most is definitely the kingmaker, and by far the largest reason that I want claims the day after - if we don't, mafia can redirect a lynch anytime they receive the kingmaker (until they have 1 person), as well as any time a townie accidentally gives them the role.

I agree with BA's reasoning. First impression of Gwahir (and Sath, CG kinda already did that one) was not good. I see him mechanics fishing (I mislabled it role fishing, my bad) a very specific and rare instance, like him and his mafia buddy have these two abilities (or are planning to get them together) and want to sow maximum chaos into the town.

And how exactly is the mafia going to use these tools to get away from being lynched? Every single mafia helping ability requires 2 participants, a giver and receiver. When the mass claim happens tomorrow of today' s actions, it will be very easy to scrutinize and decipher if any power roles were used in an anti-town manner. If a kingmaker is claimed and used the role (they damn well should) then a second person will have to confirm that. If people are dead and no one claims king maker one day, and the next day we get a kingmaker claim, it will be very possible to figure out what role is really dead leading us directly to scum. Plus, a mime or frankenstein can test / find previous/current claims that don't hold water. The fortune teller role is exactly the same. Someone will have to claim it tomorrow, and if the card they doled out doesnt exist the next night.

A bit late to the party so there will be some quoted from the first pages.

This is why I think it was extremly BM to talk about the first alignment PM. Just my personal opinion on games and following their rules.

I think this could very well be the way to go about, but thinking about the day-roles, I'm not that sure. Maybe we should not claim before the first 24 hours of th day phase are over to deny mafia of a chance to use what we post on the time sensitive roles?

I don't like your spammer comment at all. You mean we should have just one of us spamming always the most? I take that comment to not be really serious. But again you smell scum right out of the starting block.

I don't see this as time wasting as it will make the mafia to have to claim their roles. They'll have to think about how to claim and what to say. That hightens the chance for us to catch a lie.
*cuddles up on the bearrug next to the fireplace with a mug of hot cocoa* :cloud9:

Agreed.

I'm pretty sure someone will keep track of this. Most of you guys seem to do it and I will be taking notes as well for this game. Haven't done it before and it showed to be a disadvantage. I have more time for this game, so I'll see if I can keep a nice and tidy list.

I agree with this comment. I don't like the kingmaker to be in the hands of mafia at all, but here's where the claims come in. Somebody will have to claim kingmaker the day after since we have seen the role used. This will give us a good chance at identifying 2 mafia.

I agree with your last paragraph, but nothing else. Especially not the bear rug. Let me explain: To me, the wait 24 hours before claims has to be the biggest "i'm mafia" statement. Only one role (politician) requires action the first 24 hours. and it would be hard to drive for a mislynch that early. The mafia loves it when the town is in limbo waiting, because proper scum hunting will be fruitless and or forgotten when the claims start happening, crunching the day in half and leading to hasty decisions. The spammer seems easy to combat of course, if someone is about to get lynched, makes 40 posts and lives, they are obviously not town. Is it bad for the town to worry about self preservation if the mafia are not paying attention, or a bus driver redirects a mafia kill to a death immune townie?

 

[thefranklin]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I still disagree, however. Every time we make the mafia claim something, they either have to tell the truth (which works against their win condition usually), or they tell a lie, which increases the chance they get caught. Both are win/win in my book. Therefore, I think we should definitely proceed with the 'next day' claims.

I agree with this, but do you think it is a problem that we know what role we are lynching. Do you think that will work against the town at all, slowing down the inertia of lynches because the role holds a certain town helpfulness, not necessarily the person being lynched? Most of the roles won't be missed, but the fortune teller has some useful cards that can help.

Off this topic, wouldn't it be great for redirect/bus driven kill bringing back a nk'd townie with last laugh? It would be like a catch in dodgeball, a two man swing. Awesome role whoever thought of that!

 

[Bad Ash]

I wouldnt say rolefishing is anti-town? Why would it be in this game? Cause...the roles are all gonna switch and have nothing to do with alliance.

Read your stuff Gwahir. Vote sticks for now.

 

[Kestegs]

I wouldnt say rolefishing is anti-town? Why would it be in this game? Cause...the roles are all gonna switch and have nothing to do with alliance.

Read your stuff Gwahir. Vote sticks for now.

But roles stick through the night, thus making role fishing just as scummy as any other game.

 

[Kestegs]

But roles stick through the night, thus making role fishing just as scummy as any other game.

On second thought I don't know that that makes sense in response to your post. Can you rephrase that post, cause I R confused.

 

[Gwaihir]

Biggest thing that jumps to mind is the Kingmaker. Namely, the person he named as king the following day. For instance, let's say I'm Kingmaker today. Tonight, I'd choose someone to be King. Tomorrow I have a completely new role, claim that I had Kingmaker yesterday, and possibly divulge who the King is today. Is that helpful to town? Probably. But it does create the possibility that the town tries working in some lynch shenanigans, to which we spend half a day trying to work out some convoluted plan to confirm town and lynch scum at the same time.

I guess I still don't really see it? There are reasons to not do a full claim, but I really don't see a situation where holding out until late in the day helps. It just gives the town less time to act on information. (With the exception of the politition, but not sure how claiming effects it). I agree with thefranklin, holding out just makes for having town rush desisions.

I agree with BA's reasoning. First impression of Gwahir (and Sath, CG kinda already did that one) was not good. I see him mechanics fishing (I mislabled it role fishing, my bad) a very specific and rare instance, like him and his mafia buddy have these two abilities (or are planning to get them together) and want to sow maximum chaos into the town.

If that is true, I would have PM'd gory directly. Do you think that clarifying role intereactions in the thread was a bad idea?

I will admit my attention on the case did come from a personal interest, I made the mime (with good changes from Gory) and am curious how he had it intereact with other roles.

And how exactly is the mafia going to use these tools to get away from being lynched? Every single mafia helping ability requires 2 participants, a giver and receiver. When the mass claim happens tomorrow of today' s actions, it will be very easy to scrutinize and decipher if any power roles were used in an anti-town manner. If a kingmaker is claimed and used the role (they damn well should) then a second person will have to confirm that. If people are dead and no one claims king maker one day, and the next day we get a kingmaker claim, it will be very possible to figure out what role is really dead leading us directly to scum. Plus, a mime or frankenstein can test / find previous/current claims that don't hold water. The fortune teller role is exactly the same. Someone will have to claim it tomorrow, and if the card they doled out doesnt exist the next night.

Pretty much what I have said: as a role, kingmaker scares me the most - a mafia can basically veto lynches. So I have suggested the claiming, because that prevents mafia from using it well.

I agree with this, but do you think it is a problem that we know what role we are lynching. Do you think that will work against the town at all, slowing down the inertia of lynches because the role holds a certain town helpfulness, not necessarily the person being lynched? Most of the roles won't be missed, but the fortune teller has some useful cards that can help.

Off this topic, wouldn't it be great for redirect/bus driven kill bringing back a nk'd townie with last laugh? It would be like a catch in dodgeball, a two man swing. Awesome role whoever thought of that!

Huh? When are you saying we should claim? From my understanding most people think we should claim the previous day's role, not the current one.

 

[Gwaihir]

I wouldnt say rolefishing is anti-town? Why would it be in this game? Cause...the roles are all gonna switch and have nothing to do with alliance.

Read your stuff Gwahir. Vote sticks for now.

Assume SI is mafia and I am town. SI asks why I think I will live the night. One possible reason is he is trying to find out if I have a role that messes with NK's so that he doesn't waste a kill on me tonight.

I am actually a bit surprised you didn't see that.

 

[Malevolent]

@ sath, why are you so opposed to the idea of next-day claiming? everyone else here that has mentioned it is in favour. It should be helpful for the town, and it may end up wasting a lot of time, but overall it is most likely to be a great info gathering asset.

with every post you seem to push against this concept further!

- i too am concerned about the kingmaker role, very nasty and it cannot really benefit town. UNLESS, we make sure to claim FAST the next day, so we can hammer the scum who used the kingmaker ability( it will be hard for the scum to hide if we mass-claim i reckon)

- another dangerous role is the paris hilton role, IF it was given the a mafia first then that mafia could choose thier scumbuddy as a BFF, so all future hiltons will be talking with a mafia member, to anybody who has the paris hilton role, please be very careful about who you pick, I for one am not going to trust what i hear from the BFF.

 

[Malevolent]

amendment to the above, i re-read the paris+BFF role, and i now see that the name of the BFF is given to the paris, so i am not as concerned as i was. If we can catch out who was paris today tomorrow, and we lynch the bff who turns out to be scum, we can pretty much guarantee that the original paris is also scum.

 

[Solar Ice]

The capital Ts in 'tomorrow' and 'today' seem odd to me. Just a statement.

Only noticing it now? I've been using that in pretty much every game that I played as some sort of a way to distinguish real life day/night/today/tomorrow from their Forum Mafia versions.

 

[Solar Ice]

Assume SI is mafia and I am town. SI asks why I think I will live the night. One possible reason is he is trying to find out if I have a role that messes with NK's so that he doesn't waste a kill on me tonight.

I am actually a bit surprised you didn't see that.

Or maybe, just maybe, I saw a pattern similar to your previous game (in which you were Mafia) with you slipping in a bit of certainly about being is the game Tomorow, and posted wondering about it.

 

[Solar Ice]

amendment to the above, i re-read the paris+BFF role, and i now see that the name of the BFF is given to the paris, so i am not as concerned as i was. If we can catch out who was paris today tomorrow, and we lynch the bff who turns out to be scum, we can pretty much guarantee that the original paris is also scum.

And if the original Paris is a Townie that chose a Mafioso as a BFF, by accident? I would definitely not go so far as to say that one alignment guarantees the alignment of the other, with the Paris Role. Though I would say that the chances of the original Paris being Scum are higher if the BFF turns out Scum.

By the way, what does BFF stand for? Best Best Friend?

 

[Ankeli1]

So you trust me to read for you??

I was referring to not having had enough time at the time, but please, if you're up to it, read for me.

Yes, let's go through the actions of thirteen complicated roles that all affect each other. I'm not waisting half of our day phase.

I think claiming what you had the previous day is okay, but you bring up a good point. If it's going to dominate half of the days talk then I would for sure be against it as it's already difficult enough to secure a lynch sometimes.

I never said I was against role claiming, although as I said you won't catch anyone in a lie that way. However my original response was to Ankeli who said that we could deduce what actions took place and further down the road catch mafia in some lies. Which would imply keep track of every role everyone has, every action everyone took only to hope that we catch someone in a lie later. Which would be a hell of a lot of work (my half a day phase remark) to catch something that likely anyone is only to catch if he knows exactly what actions happened when they did which is very complicated given all the roles.

Simply telling you had the busdriver and you switched X, X and X will help us.

I just don't think we should overcomplicate things with the roles for us, it's going to be difficult enough.

You're the one overcomplicating things, and you're seemingly the only one against the idea. Nowhere did I say that "On day 4 we must spend three quarters of the day discussing only past actions!" What I meant was, and I think you know this, that WITH the information available to us, it's easier to catch players in a lie somewhere down the road in the past. It makes securing lynches on suspects easier. Let's say I suspected Kegs (I actually do) of being mafia, and it's day 4. We have the information of what Kegs has claimed to have done during the past nights. If there are errors, or someone can contradict any of them, we have more information to work towards a succesful mafia lynch.

You're the scummiest person to me at the moment.

By the way, what does BFF stand for? Best Best Friend?

Best Friends Forever.

Vote: Sathoris

 

[Ankeli1]

"You're the one overcomplicating things" refers to Sathoris in ^ the above post, not kegs. Kegs jumps on the plausible baddies list for actually seeing logic in what Sathoris said.

 

[Malevolent]

well ankeli, that pretty much sums up my feelings about sath, however since it is a 72 hour day i am not going to vote just yet, heaps of time left.

ill do a post count right at the very end of the day so that it is possible to track tomorrows posts without counting individual ones, we know who teh spam is today but it could help to keep any mafia spammers at bay for tomorrow

also be-warned sath does have a lot of posts so if kestegs not so subtle hint wasnt true then it could be important to not let sath have the most posts, just in case...

 

[Solar Ice]

Ankli's case is not strong enough for me place a Vote right now, though there may be some merit to it. I feel far more uneasy about Gwaihir but I would still, as usual, look towards the lurkers in this game. Pyrotechnician has one post to his name, with half of the Day gone by, and not a useful post at that.

Pyrotechnician:

Any opinions on events thus far?
What do you think of the role-claiming-the-next-Day idea that has been put forth?
Any players that you suspect to be Mafia?

 

[flubbucket1]

Trying to twist my words already? I agreed with your comment which was saying claiming the following day was your suggestion..

flubb has the rug. He insists it's a bear.

I'm sorry sweetheart I wasn't clear. I meant you bare on a rug. I hope that's clearer.....and pics start showing up in my inbox PRONTO!!!

Okay, I understand where you're coming from. I still disagree, however. Every time we make the mafia claim something, they either have to tell the truth (which works against their win condition usually), or they tell a lie, which increases the chance they get caught. Both are win/win in my book. Therefore, I think we should definitely proceed with the 'next day' claims.



Biggest thing that jumps to mind is the Kingmaker. Namely, the person he named as king the following day. For instance, let's say I'm Kingmaker today. Tonight, I'd choose someone to be King. Tomorrow I have a completely new role, claim that I had Kingmaker yesterday, and possibly divulge who the King is today. Is that helpful to town? Probably. But it does create the possibility that the town tries working in some lynch shenanigans, to which we spend half a day trying to work out some convoluted plan to confirm town and lynch scum at the same time.



The capital Ts in 'tomorrow' and 'today' seem odd to me. Just a statement.

Please don't misinterpret this as me being noble...:rolf:...but IF I had the kingmaker role, and I'm a townie, would it be in the best interest of the town to be lynched in order to get rid of the role and make sure it doesn't wind up in the hands of mafia??

I say this because worse case scenario would be mafia getting the role and continuing to rotate it amongst themselves.

What am I missing thinking this way?

 

[flubbucket1]

I have seen Pyro adopting the Noodle principle in the past few games.