Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

[Jordanbcool]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

To clear up a few things I never said bone necs would be an easy duel. In fact, the ones I've dueled have been quite hard but as videos from the OP show they aren't invincible and they are indeed quite weak in the fact that they have low life and sometimes low resists and little damage reduction. Sure 4+ bone spirits will hurt but they often won't be enough to kill you. This barb build like most barbs should have 5-6k+ life. Also like I said bone armor is easily cut through by zerk which bypasses their armor. Max block looks good on paper but I've found that many necs will get scared and mistakenly run which drops their precious block down considerably.

As far as the 1pt ww being weak, the damage will be weak but the mechanics won't be. As others have said its a moving attack that is uninterrupted. The only difference between a pure WW BVC is damage. That is it.

I saw you said auradins? An auradins damage will literally tickle a barbarian's life making their damage laughable. You can look in the palidan forum and see the guide which says the very same thing.

This build like a regular WW bvc uses many of the same mechanics. I saw that you said its tele would be too slow? Just throw on some FCR rings and it will help the FCR considerably. In fact you can easily use two wizardspikes on switch if you'd like to use tele more.

Smiters will almost always lose to your 1pt WW. All you have to do is WW away from them and they will likely get frustrated and try to follow you getting smacked by your trailing WW. Unless you are dumb with your wirls I cannot see you losing to them.

Stacking sorb and resistances IMO shouldn't hurt your damage too much. Most of the time I switch out the amulet, rings or even the belt to make elemental attack more manageable. Switching to a OrtOrtOrt helm and Tgods will make a FOHer much more manageable and this is a good example of that.

I would say the main difference between this build a regular BVC WW is the fact that it uses a desynching frenzy attack instead of teleport for mobility, and from the video's posted as well as others who've tried this build it seems pretty effective at that. I'm not saying that I've dueled everyone but I definitely think you are blowing up the other pvp characters out there to be near invincible when that certainly isn't the case.

 

[mystified]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

sorry but I will break this down a bit.

To clear up a few things I never said bone necs would be an easy duel. In fact, the ones I've dueled have been quite hard but as videos from the OP show they aren't invincible and they are indeed quite weak in the fact that they have low life and sometimes low resists and little damage reduction.

in short - what a terrible, terrible necro that was.
little resist and little DR?
My NL boner has nowhere near good gears as I have stashed for my L nec (which I still not equipped due to lacking perf torch and anni right now).
He currently holds 4 skillers and standard MB set up with SS. So there is 35 + 8DR from ber, and 8 more from eni. There is my DR. and MB

and he has max synergy = strong bone armor (mine has 800 abs)
and summonable clay golem. (wtf? no golem on that vid? also where is the bone wall?)

Filling rest with crappy res/life charm and plain lifers (and still blank spaces) he has little more than 2K life. (2.3 with 6 blank space in inventory and all my SC seems to be 11 to lit res. must've dueled FOH)
so...unless with DS/CS you can 1 hit nec built similarily to my nec somehow with plain frenzy like you've seen in the video (which is simply not possible)...i can say those nec sucked. period.
get those video to nec forum and they will agree. or even pvp forum.

and FCR? unless that video I've just seen is slowed to a point where frenzy looks like a normal walking, I don't think that is usual speed i've seen in a nec.

and no, MB does not look good on paper ONLY. It is good. only time a nec is runing is vs dru, and other time he will tele/walk. if they don't, consider them new to pvp scene (also a lot of pubs have non-mb nec as life is great in pubbies)

Sure 4+ bone spirits will hurt but they often won't be enough to kill you. This barb build like most barbs should have 5-6k+ life

4 K is bare minimum. Like I mentioned, I have 4K spear, 4.5 spirit with only 4 skillers to fill my inv. This translate into roughly 700 ish dmg. IIRC fhr occurs at 1/12th of HP drained by one hit. so..does your barb have 8400 ish life to stop going into FHR motion? (effectively ending your frenzy so nec can chain?)
Btw my teeth is also at around 1K dmg. spread wide this (like multishot but better cuz no AR is required..although it does considerably less dmg it is good source of annoyance)

I saw you said auradins? An auradins damage will literally tickle a barbarian's life making their damage laughable. You can look in the palidan forum and see the guide which says the very same thing.

notice my poor attempt at sarcasm at the end of that comment. It was P.S for that reason. I was mearly mentioning auradin will also be a viable pvp char because they can desynch while doing dmg. So godly!

that said, even with charge variant's poor AR, they will actually hit you, which is scary. What def will your barb have? somewhere along 6~7K if that?

This build like a regular WW bvc uses many of the same mechanics. I saw that you said its tele would be too slow? Just throw on some FCR rings and it will help the FCR considerably. In fact you can easily use two wizardspikes on switch if you'd like to use tele more.

no its not. Unlike WW where ias is required from weapon only, this build practically relies on its fast speed from gears too. which means unless you are going pb grief, you are pretty much screwed to get that initial frenzy off.
and even if you do its a case of summoner - wait till it expires (which, unlike a summoner, isn't that long)
and wizzy on swap tele...if your connection is bad or does not respond, you will be WW/frenzing with wizzy. This isn't exactly best. This is purely theorycraft talking (as you are advocating frenzier as serious pvp alternative) and if you did this in real life with quite a success, I will congratualte you on that.

and if you DO use a PB, range seriously sucks, and you will be eaten by WW-away. (although this is the point where frenzier can argure they can use back up DT)

Also more into 1pt WW:

Your set up, when vs high def char etc, will likely to include WW for quick getaway and backward WW.
So my assumtion in this is high DR and high AR. So

berber CoA
Grief PB x 2
angelics
raven
dungoes
eni
gore
dracs/crafted blood glove 20 ias

I dunno how you will manage ias/how it will be managed but nvm. should be enough from grief pb.

anyway, this will give decent DR and AR, but lacking skills department. you have total +7 skills including bo. your WW will suffer from -2ED% and only +30% AR. and your range still suck bad.

to get a better range, lets say you go for an axe. Now you are just slow with zerkers.
btw, did I mention low def?

Smiters will almost always lose to your 1pt WW. All you have to do is WW away from them and they will likely get frustrated and try to follow you getting smacked by your trailing WW. Unless you are dumb with your wirls I cannot see you losing to them.

unless smiters are really really dumb they will just flash HF. you are now frozen. End of frenzy, slower WW away so they can hit.
or even better, they will simply exile and LT for the win.
or even better yet, go cleg/arach + tele infront of your low dmg, low AR WW and smack you with walk + smite. (exile is a nice addon but that would be an overkill.) and now you are slowed too

Stacking sorb and resistances IMO shouldn't hurt your damage too much. Most of the time I switch out the amulet, rings or even the belt to make elemental attack more manageable. Switching to a OrtOrtOrt helm and Tgods will make a FOHer much more manageable and this is a good example of that.

again, a TV can dish out both massive FoH AND smite dmg.
Pure FoH with 25/-25 sceptre and perf griffons, and possibly JSToD with -150 conviction?
ortortort won't do much good unless you can fill your inv with charms as well.
In anycase, you use that helm, you just lost your DR. And FoH/TV will always have HF as their main weapon as well.
also note my mention on decent blizz sorc down here.

I would say the main difference between this build a regular BVC WW is the fact that it uses a desynching frenzy attack instead of teleport for mobility, and from the video's posted as well as others who've tried this build it seems pretty effective at that. I'm not saying that I've dueled everyone but I definitely think you are blowing up the other pvp characters out there to be near invincible when that certainly isn't the case.

I have not dueled many good ones, nor do I claim to be a best pvp-er ever. however only thing I can see from the video is that opponents sucked hard.
and mobility is not the only one distiguishing frenzuer and bvc.
life (bvc would have bit more thanks to not using FRW scs)
def (definitely plus on bvc)
mobility ( heard of NL tele?)
range (pb vs zerker)
stacked res (bvc can actually spend more pts into nat res too and still have better def)
AR (granted more on frenzier)
Dmg (granted lookes more on frenzier but consider its lower speed/only one hit at a time where as dual WW with BVC is 1 hit at 4 frame than 2 hit from 8th frame)
Uninterrubtible (makes Bvc superiror)
DR (always DR vs situational DR on frenzier)

here are few statistics of good ones I have duelled/I have that i know of:

boner: MB, 2.7K life, 4.5 spear don't remember spirit dmg cuz we were going nec vs nec
barb (bvc): can go semi-block with ebotdz but non in stash (lol). 7K life without any buffering item, 1.1K AR, berber CoA for general pub. 39/39x grief zerker mainhand with beastz
dru(windy): can't emember life but something stupid. no block but 163 FCR set up. when minion went down, tele-ed and recast and came back. with a boner had a very very hard time but it was even match up..until he went defensive. No DR set up with me cuz again I was a boner.
dru(fury): this was mine. (notice was..) 7K life, full inventory with nice FRW @ 130 for caster set up w/o feral rage. reaching 10K max with e-tombs, 6K iirc with botdz with block. I outrange your frenzy in both set ups (and outlife if I change charms and prebuff)
blizz (ES): 85% ES (full TK synergy). 11~11K blizz, max block, 1K life, 3K mana, lv43 cold mastery (before BC) + 3 rbf. No doom but can be included. She will potentially kill most char in 1 hit. with barb, bit more (depending on raven). she is basically filled with mana/life, 40+ skillers, dex boosting nightwing and FCR amu, 105 FCR too.
..and people say sorc are weak, she was a monster!

Overall, all i can say is with all that buffed up dmg, the char has almost no def, DR, or nice res stack.
Has nice AR boost and dmg, which is completely negligible because survibility > dmg with new patches which this character lacks. especially since you cannot 1 hit KO even with your frenzy dmg factoring in DS/CS

@ OP; i don't know how you get 1000% ED and 70%DS/CS btw. care to explain? at lv 90, I assume 20 to bo, 1 to all combat and neccessary skills. so:
20bo
20 frenzy
20 double swing
1 to WW
1 to berserk
20 mastery
and assuming no DR set up like arreat, highlords, arach, eni and uniue charms give total + 11 all sk, +2 to combat.
= 465+178 ED
= 643 ED (total 103 skill point) with 40 DS, 23 CS.

using perf PB, and inventory with around 20 max/ar/life, and using dmg calculator, this will yield 53 totla DS + CS chance, and around 5973 to 6867 average dmg (assuming 150 STR)

In same set up, using grief + beast, a BvC can do
178% ED from mastery + 206%ED from WW + 186 ED from beastz
= 570 ED = 5384 to 6822 with grief side.

even using fort, your dmg is (qith 150 str still) 5437 to 8000 (calculated with 15ED PB grief with +400, 60max from charm and 1000ED) average.
say you make a deadly strike, it will be 2668 max after pvp penalty.

again this goes agains my point that dru in vid sucked. Hard.

above has been calculated by the dmg calculator so can be wrong. But numbers seems to add up.

Now I think this was enough nit picking from me.

What I woudl suggest to stop people like me commenting negative and skeptical looks, I would arrange a match up with people in whatever realm your are in a private 1 vs 1. maybe someone from PvP forum who will actually have a fully equipped pvp char that can do dmg and have decent amount of life...so basically an actual pvp char

 

[Shocker]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

@ OP; i don't know how you get 1000% ED and 70%DS/CS btw. care to explain?

I was referring to my favorite frenzy build that used dual grief pb's (the one in the videos).

If you've been keeping up with the topic you would notice i emphasize getting enough fwr charms to ditch the nigma and get a fort, and so i did~

400ed from frenzy, 300ed from fort, str and mastery combining and translating to almost another 300 ed~ 1000ish ed

approx 35% deadly strike from highlords, 15% deadly strike from gore riders, 20% deadly strike from each griefpb turns to 70% deadly strike, and no i mentioned nothing about crushing blow~

hope that clears that bit up ^_^

The emphasis is on~
high damage - can't afford to let opponent get many shots on you
high attack speed - becomes extremely effective when opponent has insufficient fcr, fbr, or fhr to escape frenzy
high movement speed - can't afford to let the opponent see me coming at them, particularly in the case of zons

that being said there are two things to know
#1 - this build WILL work in pub duels on bnet (and yes in gm ones)
#2 - this build will not win a tourney any time soon.

the reason it works on bnet is that not every char out there is gfg build~

 

[vknez]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

plz post screenshoots of your chars (shocker and jel), and what equipment on that set up...
just to see your resistances...

d2pk is not hack, just private realm of diablo where you make lev 99 char fully equiped in few minutes so you make dueling almost instantly. it does not interfere with original d2 installation

town guarding, grizzly spawning druid also works in pubs :thumbup:

 

[Shocker]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

I had to strip some gear to make some new chars so the frenzy barb isn't optimal at the moment (i'm not rich so alot of my chars share gear >.>)

As for resistances, i hit 90 light res when i wear a fort, um'ed arreat, highlords and tgods~ I don't carry resistance charms so the fort is a bit crucial in terms of covering the resistance gap~

the resistances are strong enough to let the barb over power cs zons and pure trap sins but leaves much to be desired vs blizz sorcs, and fohers~

if you're on useast i can regear him and show him to you ingame sometime~

 

[mystified]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

thanks for clearing things up with ds. for whatever reason i was thinkin of 20 ias on highlords and 20 ds. must be due to time...i should have been slleeping at that time lol.

but now you state it lacks res.
and we can see it lacking dr too.
for this reason alone, i don't see this as a viable option. pk maybe, but not a proper 1vs 1 duel.

if damage and ar iis only thing that mattered, charger would've dominated the pvp scene

 

[Jordanbcool]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

sorry but I will break this down a bit.



in short - what a terrible, terrible necro that was.
little resist and little DR?
My NL boner has nowhere near good gears as I have stashed for my L nec (which I still not equipped due to lacking perf torch and anni right now).
He currently holds 4 skillers and standard MB set up with SS. So there is 35 + 8DR from ber, and 8 more from eni. There is my DR. and MB

and he has max synergy = strong bone armor (mine has 800 abs)
and summonable clay golem. (wtf? no golem on that vid? also where is the bone wall?)

Filling rest with crappy res/life charm and plain lifers (and still blank spaces) he has little more than 2K life. (2.3 with 6 blank space in inventory and all my SC seems to be 11 to lit res. must've dueled FOH)
so...unless with DS/CS you can 1 hit nec built similarily to my nec somehow with plain frenzy like you've seen in the video (which is simply not possible)...i can say those nec sucked. period.
get those video to nec forum and they will agree. or even pvp forum.

and FCR? unless that video I've just seen is slowed to a point where frenzy looks like a normal walking, I don't think that is usual speed i've seen in a nec.

and no, MB does not look good on paper ONLY. It is good. only time a nec is runing is vs dru, and other time he will tele/walk. if they don't, consider them new to pvp scene (also a lot of pubs have non-mb nec as life is great in pubbies)


4 K is bare minimum. Like I mentioned, I have 4K spear, 4.5 spirit with only 4 skillers to fill my inv. This translate into roughly 700 ish dmg. IIRC fhr occurs at 1/12th of HP drained by one hit. so..does your barb have 8400 ish life to stop going into FHR motion? (effectively ending your frenzy so nec can chain?)
Btw my teeth is also at around 1K dmg. spread wide this (like multishot but better cuz no AR is required..although it does considerably less dmg it is good source of annoyance)



notice my poor attempt at sarcasm at the end of that comment. It was P.S for that reason. I was mearly mentioning auradin will also be a viable pvp char because they can desynch while doing dmg. So godly!

that said, even with charge variant's poor AR, they will actually hit you, which is scary. What def will your barb have? somewhere along 6~7K if that?



no its not. Unlike WW where ias is required from weapon only, this build practically relies on its fast speed from gears too. which means unless you are going pb grief, you are pretty much screwed to get that initial frenzy off.
and even if you do its a case of summoner - wait till it expires (which, unlike a summoner, isn't that long)
and wizzy on swap tele...if your connection is bad or does not respond, you will be WW/frenzing with wizzy. This isn't exactly best. This is purely theorycraft talking (as you are advocating frenzier as serious pvp alternative) and if you did this in real life with quite a success, I will congratualte you on that.

and if you DO use a PB, range seriously sucks, and you will be eaten by WW-away. (although this is the point where frenzier can argure they can use back up DT)

Also more into 1pt WW:

Your set up, when vs high def char etc, will likely to include WW for quick getaway and backward WW.
So my assumtion in this is high DR and high AR. So

berber CoA
Grief PB x 2
angelics
raven
dungoes
eni
gore
dracs/crafted blood glove 20 ias

I dunno how you will manage ias/how it will be managed but nvm. should be enough from grief pb.

anyway, this will give decent DR and AR, but lacking skills department. you have total +7 skills including bo. your WW will suffer from -2ED% and only +30% AR. and your range still suck bad.

to get a better range, lets say you go for an axe. Now you are just slow with zerkers.
btw, did I mention low def?


unless smiters are really really dumb they will just flash HF. you are now frozen. End of frenzy, slower WW away so they can hit.
or even better, they will simply exile and LT for the win.
or even better yet, go cleg/arach + tele infront of your low dmg, low AR WW and smack you with walk + smite. (exile is a nice addon but that would be an overkill.) and now you are slowed too


again, a TV can dish out both massive FoH AND smite dmg.
Pure FoH with 25/-25 sceptre and perf griffons, and possibly JSToD with -150 conviction?
ortortort won't do much good unless you can fill your inv with charms as well.
In anycase, you use that helm, you just lost your DR. And FoH/TV will always have HF as their main weapon as well.
also note my mention on decent blizz sorc down here.



I have not dueled many good ones, nor do I claim to be a best pvp-er ever. however only thing I can see from the video is that opponents sucked hard.
and mobility is not the only one distiguishing frenzuer and bvc.
life (bvc would have bit more thanks to not using FRW scs)
def (definitely plus on bvc)
mobility ( heard of NL tele?)
range (pb vs zerker)
stacked res (bvc can actually spend more pts into nat res too and still have better def)
AR (granted more on frenzier)
Dmg (granted lookes more on frenzier but consider its lower speed/only one hit at a time where as dual WW with BVC is 1 hit at 4 frame than 2 hit from 8th frame)
Uninterrubtible (makes Bvc superiror)
DR (always DR vs situational DR on frenzier)

here are few statistics of good ones I have duelled/I have that i know of:

boner: MB, 2.7K life, 4.5 spear don't remember spirit dmg cuz we were going nec vs nec
barb (bvc): can go semi-block with ebotdz but non in stash (lol). 7K life without any buffering item, 1.1K AR, berber CoA for general pub. 39/39x grief zerker mainhand with beastz
dru(windy): can't emember life but something stupid. no block but 163 FCR set up. when minion went down, tele-ed and recast and came back. with a boner had a very very hard time but it was even match up..until he went defensive. No DR set up with me cuz again I was a boner.
dru(fury): this was mine. (notice was..) 7K life, full inventory with nice FRW @ 130 for caster set up w/o feral rage. reaching 10K max with e-tombs, 6K iirc with botdz with block. I outrange your frenzy in both set ups (and outlife if I change charms and prebuff)
blizz (ES): 85% ES (full TK synergy). 11~11K blizz, max block, 1K life, 3K mana, lv43 cold mastery (before BC) + 3 rbf. No doom but can be included. She will potentially kill most char in 1 hit. with barb, bit more (depending on raven). she is basically filled with mana/life, 40+ skillers, dex boosting nightwing and FCR amu, 105 FCR too.
..and people say sorc are weak, she was a monster!

Overall, all i can say is with all that buffed up dmg, the char has almost no def, DR, or nice res stack.
Has nice AR boost and dmg, which is completely negligible because survibility > dmg with new patches which this character lacks. especially since you cannot 1 hit KO even with your frenzy dmg factoring in DS/CS

@ OP; i don't know how you get 1000% ED and 70%DS/CS btw. care to explain? at lv 90, I assume 20 to bo, 1 to all combat and neccessary skills. so:
20bo
20 frenzy
20 double swing
1 to WW
1 to berserk
20 mastery
and assuming no DR set up like arreat, highlords, arach, eni and uniue charms give total + 11 all sk, +2 to combat.
= 465+178 ED
= 643 ED (total 103 skill point) with 40 DS, 23 CS.

using perf PB, and inventory with around 20 max/ar/life, and using dmg calculator, this will yield 53 totla DS + CS chance, and around 5973 to 6867 average dmg (assuming 150 STR)

In same set up, using grief + beast, a BvC can do
178% ED from mastery + 206%ED from WW + 186 ED from beastz
= 570 ED = 5384 to 6822 with grief side.

even using fort, your dmg is (qith 150 str still) 5437 to 8000 (calculated with 15ED PB grief with +400, 60max from charm and 1000ED) average.
say you make a deadly strike, it will be 2668 max after pvp penalty.

again this goes agains my point that dru in vid sucked. Hard.

above has been calculated by the dmg calculator so can be wrong. But numbers seems to add up.

Now I think this was enough nit picking from me.

What I woudl suggest to stop people like me commenting negative and skeptical looks, I would arrange a match up with people in whatever realm your are in a private 1 vs 1. maybe someone from PvP forum who will actually have a fully equipped pvp char that can do dmg and have decent amount of life...so basically an actual pvp char

I dont have time right now (but later) to respond to everything but my barb ATM is built like this..

20 frenzy
20 Axe mastery
20 BO
20 Double swing
5 Increased speed
5 Natural resistance
1pt prerequsites
1pt zerk, WW, taunt, battle command

Arreats (um)
triple resist rares (30 FRW lightning/cold/fire resists)
dungos (some DR)
laying of hands gloves
DS enigma
Doomz
Beastz
2x ravenfrosts
cats eye

Anni
torch
25 FRW scs w/resistances/AR as secondary mods
some life scs

So right now I'm using different equitment from whats posted.

 

[Shocker]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

thanks for clearing things up with ds. for whatever reason i was thinkin of 20 ias on highlords and 20 ds. must be due to time...i should have been slleeping at that time lol.

but now you state it lacks res.
and we can see it lacking dr too.
for this reason alone, i don't see this as a viable option. pk maybe, but not a proper 1vs 1 duel.

if damage and ar iis only thing that mattered, charger would've dominated the pvp scene

i also mentioned that it's my aim is to make it an alternative bvc build that is, focus on how to deal with casters (sorcs, necs, hdins, fohers, trap sins, zons, windies)

for pure melee i should probably switch to a coa and dungoes, but for now i'm trying to complete the bvc part of the build

i'm aware of the horrible disadvantages around melee duels with smiters etc, will run some numbers and see if i can find a way to deal with it later on~ at the moment i use my 1pt ww to deal with smiters and ww barbs.

also, keep in mind much of the strat involved is to be very evasive, and to move in on your target fast and take him down hard.

float like a butterfly sting like a bee ^_^?

 

[mystified]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

alrigh here is my 2 cents to help create a better frenzier.

if you are thinking alternative to bvc, i think we need to clear up on weapon choices first.
Clearly range 2 PB is not the best option. However I cannot come up with anything better apart from botdz + (something)

Gears will have to be around ias to compensate lack of ias in initial swings, so maybe beast is not a bad idea, and 15@/15ias on helm.
...or would it be better to use something else altogether as helm option? i can think of andy or even 3sox/30FRW circ like zons filled with 15@/15ias to compensate loss of all res.

that and charms will need to be something like 5@/3frw for about half of inventory, rest 3/xx/life scs.
...this build is becoming very expensive but this should be able to deal with any caster based on elemental dmg.

problem is likes of windy, hammer, and nec who does not rely on elemental based dmg. I honestly can't think of a good way to tackle nec except tele zerk or DoD. which kinda more like bvc...
as for windy and hammer...well same goes unless one can have a constant LT going off so you can leech from minions or wind dmg war.
Ok, you can widow hammer for long game with OW.

I am back to square one, where I can deal with casting elemental based char but nothing else... :S
above can be achieved even by kicker (no offense to sins but kicker is generally considered weakest of pvp builds)

as much as I am trying to be more constructive toward this idea, I can't come up with decent gear solution to deal with nec and dru apart from resorting to BVC WW

 

[vknez]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

kicker will kick *** of frenzier cause she will have traps as back up damage + stun lock himu. will be protected with 50 % dr and 60 %+ weapon block/75 % shield block.

jordanbcool setup:
you have +11 to @ skills, +2 combat
around 200 str
around 780 ed (mastery,frenzy, fanatizam)

frenzy damage calculation (pvp):

doom - minimum 210, maximum 621, chance for double damage 37 %
so average dmg --> 416. including deadly chance --> 570
if opponent have 50 % dr --> 285
calculation is made with 385 ed doom

beast - minimum 166, maximum 493, chance for double damage 22 %
so average damage --> 330, including critical --> 402
if opponent have 50 % dr --> 201
calculation is made with 285 ed beast

so damage is nothing impressive.
for instance if you have 75 % stacked fire res, my tal sorc deal around 800 damage, and winder do 1100+ damage

 

[Shocker]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

alrigh here is my 2 cents to help create a better frenzier.

if you are thinking alternative to bvc, i think we need to clear up on weapon choices first.
Clearly range 2 PB is not the best option. However I cannot come up with anything better apart from botdz + (something)

Gears will have to be around ias to compensate lack of ias in initial swings, so maybe beast is not a bad idea, and 15@/15ias on helm.

initial swings is why i lean towards the dual grief pb's (that and personal bias), lets me start at 5fpa swings and makes it possible to consider an alternative glove instead of ik (the heavy ias is no longer required).

any doomz combo definitely has it's values as well, the fact that it doesn't effect fcr is what makes it problematic vs casters, it will help if dealing with melee oriented chars however~

 

[vknez]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

IMO doom can only help vs amazon. most common melee chars wont be affected much. Bvc/bvb have slower movement while ww (so he will be more in your range--> more hits). smiter/zealot will attack slower (altough some have stacked ias to counter that) but anyway you cant win vs them, it is just prolongation of inevitable. druids speed of fury is not affected with holy freeze. well as sad before, you cant win vs any normaly built melee char.
i'm great fan of zerker barbs (and they are considered underdog) and mine is built with max block. i will need 2-3 hits to annihilate any frenzy barb.

i think if you stick with frenzy barb, focus on casters (altough some like winder/bonner cant be defeted). i recomend to change equipment, and use as standard t-god belt (light), nokozan amu/hotspur (fire), 2 ravens (cold).
stack minimum 60 % resists to counter anya bug and some facets.
to stack foher you need 200 % light and for cold sorc even more. silence runeword can help in that.

relying on monsters in blood moor to get frenzy is stupid. it will work first few minutes in game (maybe even less), so get as much frw on equipment as possible. also i recomend to focus more on open wounds (draculs+ maybe duress)

 

[Shocker]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

As I said, i'm focusing on tuning it as a bvc first. Casters are the focus atm~

also, i'd be curious as to how a zerker barb would launch an attack if he's constantly being interrupted~

as for melee builds, from what i've seen so far, anything two handed won't stand a chance against a frenzy barb~ (two handed chargers, tomb reaver wolves)

 

[vknez]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

frenzy vs zerker is one sided battle. i will not be interupted cause i have 75 % block. so 4 of your swings will be blocked. that one which hit me, will get reduced by my 50 % dmg reduce. in vice versa you have no block, and my ar of 20k vs your cca 10 k defense will give 66 % chance to hit you. since berserk is all magical it cant be effectively reduce. my average pvp damage is around 2300. so what you think, who will die first?

 

[jel]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

frenzy vs zerker is one sided battle.

Yes it will be two barbs with 1 point ww, probably an SS on both, pretty similar setup, and the question is, who gets lucky, so one sided in the essence of the luckiest one will win, if you honestly think anyone will use frenzy where 1 pt ww is a lot superior, then your assumptions are naive.

 

[mystified]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

@jel/if both go shielf and dr with 1 point ww, won't zerker be better thanks to higher def? they have shout as a synergy whereas frenzy don't

 

[jel]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

@jel/if both go shielf and dr with 1 point ww, won't zerker be better thanks to higher def? they have shout as a synergy whereas frenzy don't

That's true, and I didn't consider that. Given it results in, which is very probable, a defense boost that means in overall much more hit checks will be accepted for the berzerker than for the frenzier, then I agree that the zerker have an uper-hand in such a duel.

 

[vknez]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

i m killing full time bvcs and you tell me that you gonna win with 1 point ww. adding shield to frenzy barb? lol. in the end that frenzy barb will turn out to be bvb. also if you put shield your block percentage is gonna be crap, cause of low dex (dont tell me your dex is in 200 range)

btw my zerker is pure zerker (not 1 point ww hybrid)

 

[jel]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

i m killing full time bvcs and you tell me that you gonna win with 1 point ww. adding shield to frenzy barb? lol. in the end that frenzy barb will turn out to be bvb. also if you put shield your block percentage is gonna be crap, cause of low dex (dont tell me your dex is in 200 range)

btw my zerker is pure zerker (not 1 point ww hybrid)

Not weird that you think berzerk is so great if ww-opponents you've met would actually loose to a zerker.

SS socketed, and a proper investment in dex would be needed, again it depends, if you don't want to duel barbs you don't invest in dex for max block, if you do and want to win, you invest proper in dex for a max block combination with the bvb items you choose.

So I'll like to edit what I said once again, the zerker have the upper hand, unless it's vknez, because he apparently doesn't use a 1-point ww, but believe he can beat a ww'er using zerk. In that case the frenzy barb who has 1 point in ww have the upper hand.

 

[vknez]

Re: Faster than a charging paladin! PVP Frenzy Barb

Not weird that you think berzerk is so great if ww-opponents you've met would actually loose to a zerker.

SS socketed, and a proper investment in dex would be needed, again it depends, if you don't want to duel barbs you don't invest in dex for max block, if you do and want to win, you invest proper in dex for a max block combination with the bvb items you choose.

So I'll like to edit what I said once again, the zerker have the upper hand, unless it's vknez, because he apparently doesn't use a 1-point ww, but believe he can beat a ww'er using zerk. In that case the frenzy barb who has 1 point in ww have the upper hand.

please post screenshot of your frenzy barb, so we can see how much dex you have. also post your equipment set up vs melee. you can see my barb here:

http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/7588/zerk1handmg2.jpg

recently i use fortitude set up vs melee for extra damage (this one is with eni)

your answer gives me some laughing, cause you have answer to any argument brought against frenzy weekneses, however stupid it is.

i win vs bvc who does not know to use range weapon difference/goes bm with slow+doom