Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

[tanem]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

Grief now has crushing blow? Since when? Smiters use grief because of the +damage is added to the shield damage. Then the insane ED from the smite-skill and fanatism take the total damage sky high.

[edit] And ollid, before you brand us as being miserable, jealous and foremost lazy people who aren't rich because we don't do thousands of runs, please take a look here.

woops, my bad. grief doesnt have cb >.<

 

[maxgerin]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

(the only class i think is plausible for using fort wpn is a smiter)..., and the bonus life works great with bo.

How do you propose benefiting from the +Life of Weapon Fort while weilding CtA (I assume you intended to get BO from Call to Arms since you were talking about Paladins/Smiters)?

Pallys can't dual-wield weapons. :wink3:
Not any way I know of, that is.

Concerning the on-going debate, I guess the best way to prove the point (if ever you want to do that) is to actually make one.
Then show us loser SPers how it is done. :grin:


--maxgerin

 

[silospen1]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

Your right, I have actually only found 1hr on my own in my career on bnet so far (an Ist). I totally understand how hard it is to find hrs on your own, especially on single player. In fact, it is even more incredibly rare since your the one guy in the game and thus the monster level is much lower than say in a game with 8 players on bent. Or is this correct? Im actually not sure since i never played single player.
Neway, I did realize that a fort weapon is far less offensive. In alot of situations using fort would be useless (say against magic casters), however the extra ress does come somewhat in handy vs elemental casters. I think for smiters using fort (the only class i think is plausible for using fort wpn is a smiter), unless u combine your attacks with charge to traverse faster, itll be hard to pvp vs ranged (or those with enigma/tp).
I can imagine that using fort weapon would be extermely useful against most barbs (except singers). For example, if ur vs a ww barb, u probably wont get hit from most of his attacks, but if u should than the first hit in the ww will trigger frozen armor, making your pally even more impossible to hit. Also works great vs zealers and pretty much any melee characters. Helps too, if u want to tank and attract mobs such as those minatour guys in the throne room. And remember that the extra ress helps against say glooms, and the bonus life works great with bo. And 300ed isnt too low imo, grief of course has more insane damage and i like to think of it as the offensive variant while fort is the defensive.

This is true, would be pretty sweet vs them meleers (**** barbs ).

@Ollid:

No one accused tanem of duping. You might want to reread those posts, because all people were saying is that everything on bnet is duped. This is a fact, because otherwise an empty monarch shield wouldn't be worth HRs. (I could probably find about 5 monarchs, if not more per day, compared to 0 HRs).

No one was flaming at him for being wealthy, this isn't the bnet forums. Wealth takes on a whole new meaning in SPF

@Max: The + life doesnt carry over if you BO and then switch to fort?

So if you have 100 base life, with 100% from BO, you get 200 life. Does the (lets say +10) hp from fort make it 110 -> 220 life or just + 10 to the 200 making it 210?

 

[tanem]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

How do you propose benefiting from the +Life of Weapon Fort while weilding CtA (I assume you intended to get BO from Call to Arms since you were talking about Paladins/Smiters)?

Pallys can't dual-wield weapons. :wink3:
Not any way I know of, that is.

Concerning the on-going debate, I guess the best way to prove the point (if ever you want to do that) is to actually make one.
Then show us loser SPers how it is done. :grin:


--maxgerin

Hehe, your right. I kinda overlooked that fact since i play with my bro (whos a barb and bos me). The extra life from fort is kinda moot in that respect unless u team up with a barb all the time like me

 

[ollid]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

You make the assumption that my comment is targeted at all single players. The "you" does not apply to you, if you actually do "get um's and pul's from your forge, do a thousand countess runes till you get a hr, or pick up BK's and CoA's from Baal to trade." Again, it's not tanem's fault that you don't achieve these things.

I would be extremely surprised if the spf elite runners didn't exist!

P.S. You extol Grief, but where is your comment on the fort weapon? Isn't that the central question of this thread?

 

[Jaedhann]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

@Max: The + life doesnt carry over if you BO and then switch to fort?

So if you have 100 base life, with 100% from BO, you get 200 life. Does the (lets say +10) hp from fort make it 110 -> 220 life or just + 10 to the 200 making it 210?

I can answer that. As the +life from fort is life per lvl, it won't be effected by BO. So it would be like your second example (210 life). If it where straight +life, it would be like you first example (220 life)

[edit]@ ollid, i think several people made a valid point about the fort weapon. Might be a decent weapon, but it pales when you put it next to grief, what has the same cost. As tanem focusses on it's theoretical use in pvp, the verdict is that the damage would be far to low.

 

[tanem]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

I can answer that. As the +life from fort is life per lvl, it won't be effected by BO. So it would be like your second example (210 life). If it where straight +life, it would be like you first example (220 life)

Aah, i c. i guess the life on fort is pretty much usless period (unless that extra 100 hp or so is exactly what u need ;P)

 

[Grisu]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

I have to admit, that ollid has a point there. Tanem was never offensive in any way, but people immediately jumped on him (you're a "he", aren't you?:scratch
He tried to make clear why he thinks a Fortidtude scepter would be a good choice, and I can see his point, although I did never duel myself. But it sounds as if in some cases a Fort weapon could really be useful - and if he tries to set a record for most defense, then be it so. Good luck for it!:thumbsup:

But, tanem, you did also post some almost incomprehensible sentences, which resulted in people interpreting your posts as if you hadn't any experience with game mechanics; and that you're using abbreveations on every single word (yeah, I'm exaggerating ;-) doesn't make your posts easier to read either. Especially for people like me who aren't native speakers. No offense meant, I simply wanted to point that out.

So maybe everybody should calm down now a bit, tanem didn't mean any harm I think.

About your questions on SP mode: Yeah, it is hard to obtain HRs, but not impossible. You can simulate up to 7 unpartied players through a built-in command ingame. Note that increasing player numbers doesn't increase monster levels but only monsters' HPs, XP and drop rate (well, actually it reduces the nodrop rate...).

Here in the single player forum people are in general a bit jumpy about battle.net economy, since it's undeniable that most (or at least a lot) HRs there are duped. And when battle.net players start to speak about HRs like we here do speak about PGems, then we can only shake our heads. So bear in mind most people here can't afford multiple high-end runewords. But as I already said, there's nothing wrong with discussing high-end runewords from your point of view (i.e. the point of view with lots of HRs around:wink3.

EDIT: My post was actually aiming at tanem's and ollid's posts on the previous page...it just took me so long to write this up

 

[maxgerin]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

@Max: The + life doesnt carry over if you BO and then switch to fort?

So if you have 100 base life, with 100% from BO, you get 200 life. Does the (lets say +10) hp from fort make it 110 -> 220 life or just + 10 to the 200 making it 210?

I assume it's the latter, silo. :smiley:
You get the benefit of Fort's +LIfe after applying BO, not prior.
I just assume since I doubt I'll make a Fort on a weapon anytime soon. :tongue:


--maxgerin

 

[ollid]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

@jingizu: Dude, it's a troll. Don't bother to feed it or it'll never go away... :wink3:

I wasn't going to bother responding to that guy, since I wasn't able to come up with a response that would both shut him down, and _not_ get be temp-banned, but I think Nepata and the others served up an ice cold plate of pwnage :thumbsup:

@Silospen: These are some examples of the hostility directed at tanem by other forum users, which you claim doesn't exist if I made sure to "reread these posts."

It's these kind of comments that causes discussion to stray from the central point of the tread, on whether or not fort as a weapon has potential.

 

[Jaedhann]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

@ Ollid. Those two qoutes followed upon the following:

<snip>
Oh, btw i do plan on finishing this project. i prob wont get a +3 hs scepter, but +1-2 hs 4os ones arent as expensive (since every1 wants the 5os for cta) so who knows. sorry if it sickens u that i got hrs to spare

bold emphasis added by me.

That last remark is trolling itself, and i think the quotes you took are perfectly understandable at that point.

But alas, i'll report this thread and myself now for getting out of hand.

 

[tanem]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

@ Ollid. Those two qoutes followed upon the following:



bold emphasis added by me.

That last remark is trolling itself, and i think the quotes you took are perfectly understandable at that point.

But alas, i'll report this thread and myself now for getting out of hand.

sorry ne1, didnt mean to troll. I got a little upset when one guy was just trying to shut down the entire debate by saying its not worth it, or something like that. :sad2:

 

[silospen1]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

@Silospen: These are some examples of the hostility directed at tanem by other forum users, which you claim doesn't exist if I made sure to "reread these posts."

It's these kind of comments that causes discussion to stray from the central point of the tread, on whether or not fort as a weapon has potential.

You might want to reread my post as well then.

No one accused tanem of duping.

I didn't say anything about people being nasty to him.

And also, derailing a thread but putting in a small note that's on topic doesn't mean that your whole post was on topic.

 

[Thyiad1]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

Did I post my last post in here in invisible ink?

@ollid - if you feel a post in flaming or rude use the report post button, and a Moderator will deal with it, you don't need to leap to anyone's defence. Cattleya and I are perfectly capable of dealing with problematic posts. In fact I suspect a few people in this thread are going to discover the tools we use to do that.

@everyone else - Everyone is entitled to an opinion as to whether Fort is worthy in a weapon. That discussion could have continued. It is perfectly acceptable to mention the dramatic economic difference between SP and the Realms. It's a fact that bnet has a different economy based mainly on duped runes. That is not the case on the SP Forum.

I will allow this topic to remain open. But if ANYONE posts one more semi-flaming post, I'll close it and the poster is most likely to take a vacation from this forum.

I trust that is clear enough this time.

 

[ollid]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

@silospen: You have found me out! (At least I actually placed the word "fort" in my comment; lol jk)

But seriously, this debate on who's derailing the thread or not (doesn't your comment achieve the same thing you accuse me of?) ends now.

Best wishes on whatever direction you take for your project, tanem! :smiley:

 

[HC Gunther]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

tanem, create a new character and join a SPF tourney - it's a whole new game. Join the "Green With Envy II" tourney and you will spend lots of time hoping for...an Arctic Binding. Playing with less powerful gear will probably improve your game.

 

[Thyiad1]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

Bye ollid.

EDIT:
Several people have received warnings for trolling this thread. I'm quite disappointed that I had to make a second post to get this thread back OT and then it was promptly de-railed. Out of character for the SPF.

The fact bnet and SP economies/community is different isn't news and we should all be able to cope with that.

• Everyone needs to remember:
• The forum rules at the top of each page - especially 9 & 10
• If a post is problematic, report it using the report post button
• If you aren't contributing to the topic, reconsider actually posting

 

[Jaedhann]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

Ok, for the sake of some clearaty. Let's make a list of the fort weapon. Then we'll see if it in some cases can make a difference.

Main traits
up to 30% res. all.
Decent enhanced damage (300%)
Chance to cast chilling armor (+115% enhanced defence)
200% enhanced defence
20% deadly strike

some decent ones
Some extra life, non bo-able
25% fcr

You can get more ED, and more total damage on other weapons. A lot more. The damage isn't added to smite damage like the +damage to grief. For a lot of people this means it's just not good enough for pvp. Also it lacks any increased attack speed, so it will only be usable with charge or as an offhand whirlwind weapon.

Then there is the added defence. 312% in total if you add the chilling armor. This will add up to the 210% enhanced defence from exile's defiance aura and the 310% ED from a lvl20, unsynergized Holy shield. If you max defiance as synergie, your hs would give 610% enhanced defence. So you would gain 30%(300 out of 1200 total)-60%(300 out of 800) more total defence by using a weapon that just won't deliver the damage you want in pvp.

The only think i can think of a really good is the fast cast rate. It might get you to a breakpoint for teleing with a charger or a whirler, and still do some decent damage. But i think that there are plenty of other sources of fcr to get by then a weapon.

Point in short. You sacrifice to much damage for to little extra defence.

 

[silospen1]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

You have a point with the FCR. On my charger/FoHer/Hammerer, I use Grief and HoTO on switch. I guess fort goes some way to bridge the gap between these two weapons but like you say, it just doesn't do enough damage to be considered at the same level as grief and doesn't have enough FCR to look at HoTO. It's nice, but it just falls short for what it costs.

 

[Uzziah]

Re: Why never build Fortitude in a weapon?

I could be wrong here but I always thought fortified was intended to be used in a ranged weapon, hence the %chance to make monsters flee.