WW Ghost Assassin Guide V2.0

I find that normal attack and Dragon Claw are superior to Dragon Talon against Necs. The KB from the kicks are bad when you want to be able to keep attacking the Nec in one spot and you don't get the benefit of the anti tracking projectile minion stack glitch while attacking the Nec. The KB makes it a bit easier for the Nec to get away. With KB, you'll have to run to the target to get in another kick which makes you vulnerable to a run spear because you don't have claw block while running.

Chainlocking vita necs with Dclaw/Normal attack is very devastating. Some Ghosts rarely whirl and just go straight for the accurate claw locks. It's more of a preference thing, but it should be mentioned a bit more. I think TienJe prefers gogo lockdown whirly whirly whirly style against necs, though.

Normal attack is a lot better than it sounds. I still think Dclaw is a bit better, though. :P

By the way, TienJe. BvC vs Hdin tomorrow night? fX vs Oathkeeper gogo! And reroll your Chaos. That claw is too good to not have perfect ed.
 
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Facets? Not sure how they would help. Ghosts are c/c because their main targets are casters that can only be blocked with claws.
 
I'm having trouble with smiters on my ghost.

It's inevitable that they'll join a game, so I play dueled a few and doiubted I would win. I have beaten a few, but that's because I can't set upp stun and resort to WW only. I WW away and they follow (^^) and they get clipped. However, that isn't always the case and I have to do sort of long whirls in order to not be hit and have them get hit. If i do a bunch of ziz-zaggy WW in short lengths, they hit me, kb, and tap activates (it usually goes away almost instantly thanks to fade). They hit far too fast for me to get a WW and I'm hit too much.

The only way I've won is to be the first to strike and have them follow and not let him near.



Does anyone have any strategies (other than the first post) that works? Are smiters like bvc/bvb and is the like the ghosts's bane? Not sure, but my hybrid may have to duel melee chars.

Zeal, zealzon (only seen one o.O), zealsorc(about two o.O), any ssdru, etc are easy. Casters I have no real problems with either. It's mostly smite/barb melee dueling.
 
experienced smiters will tear apart your ghost pretty much. unlike a barb, ghosts lack the damage to really scare them.

use LS to stun them and whirl away if they come close. take care of desync and teleport away incase you get lifetapped, it wears off pretty fast with fade.
dont use a shadow if they use lifetap because it can be tapped as well.

If you want you can try damage setups against smiters (bramble or forti) and test around with knockback (from claws or giant skull).
However, this will make you more vulnerable against slow/holyfreeze and lifetap since you lose enigma.

Hybrids have better chances to win in GM duels, you can watch the vids I recorded in some practise duels against my friend on VT. maybe those help.
#1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY1h3Aol_7g&feature=related
#2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjvJ9aReFnY
 
I joined a game and it turned out to have 3 smiters. My ghost could keep up with 2 of them and almost take on the last, but he caught on to how WW away works and he charged in front sometimes.

I don't get the Perpendicular WW. When I try that, they can hit and so can I. The difference is that they do kb and I have to hold WW for it to start before he gets there. When I don't do perpendicular and I instead do in a line (sometimes tele farther to set traps) I can clip him, but he stands to smite and then follows and gets clipped some more. I run out of room and have to do a long WW to minor desynch long enough to tele and I guess that's kinda been working. It's pretty safe...especially for my hybrid.


The hybrid joined the same 3 smiter game. She grabbed a strap-on from her stash and raped them XD. Her trap dmg was enough to pressure them and they came after me (I never cast sm vs a smiter) and I'd WW away. They'd take lightning and free WW hits (the first few frames give ITD hits iirc) and blame it on my traps lagging the game.

Barbs, I did fight one who joined and I tried to out WW him. He'd leap far too much so I tele'd where he'd be and ww perpendicular. You still technically take dmg in leap so that got him low enough to be taken out by traps.

With the more I practice it, the Ghost has higher AR and dmg than my hybrid, but she excells at anything not bvc/smite. Hdins, any other pally, any other class she'll eat up. My hybrid does all that and a bag of barb/smite chips.

Is this normal?
 
Sass said:
I joined a game and it turned out to have 3 smiters. My ghost could keep up with 2 of them and almost take on the last, but he caught on to how WW away works and he charged in front sometimes.

I don't get the Perpendicular WW. When I try that, they can hit and so can I. The difference is that they do kb and I have to hold WW for it to start before he gets there. When I don't do perpendicular and I instead do in a line (sometimes tele farther to set traps) I can clip him, but he stands to smite and then follows and gets clipped some more. I run out of room and have to do a long WW to minor desynch long enough to tele and I guess that's kinda been working. It's pretty safe...especially for my hybrid.


The hybrid joined the same 3 smiter game. She grabbed a strap-on from her stash and raped them XD. Her trap dmg was enough to pressure them and they came after me (I never cast sm vs a smiter) and I'd WW away. They'd take lightning and free WW hits (the first few frames give ITD hits iirc) and blame it on my traps lagging the game.

Barbs, I did fight one who joined and I tried to out WW him. He'd leap far too much so I tele'd where he'd be and ww perpendicular. You still technically take dmg in leap so that got him low enough to be taken out by traps.

With the more I practice it, the Ghost has higher AR and dmg than my hybrid, but she excells at anything not bvc/smite. Hdins, any other pally, any other class she'll eat up. My hybrid does all that and a bag of barb/smite chips.

Is this normal?
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the perpendicular whirling is different from clipping a shift-smiting paladin. its mainly used when the paladin is charging/running at you, and the direction is perpendicular to the vector formed by you and the paladin. when you keep the perpendicular angle going, you'll see yourself spinning in a spiral, as you constantly have to change your whirl direction to maintain the angle. i'm not sure why its not working for you, because i seem to have pretty good luck with it. just make sure you're not aiming towards the paladin even in the slightest. it's effectively the same as simply whirling away, but it allows you to change directions and gives you a few more hit-checks.

to answer your question, speaking purely theoretically (and disregarding light res stack/absorb), the hybrid will be better vs paladins. the ghost is very much focused on the offensive, pouring all its points into ww and buffing skills, while the hybrid dilutes a little bit of that ability to strengthen up the defense with their traps. smiters will be tougher for the ghost, though its still very possible to kill those one-sided characters. the same also applies for the hybrid: casters may be marginally tougher, though they're definitely not unkillable by any means. pure smiters should be a relatively easy duel for both builds though.

the matchup that probably best exemplifies the strength of the hybrid is the duel vs v\t's. the ghosts have a very hard time with these paladins, as the foh forces the ghost to play offensive, where grief smite has the definite advantage. the traps on a hybrid are strong enough to force the paladin to come offensive instead of vice-versa, giving the sin the advantage in the ww vs smite arena and in the overall duel.

regarding barbs, i think the only place where the hybrid will beat out the ghost is when they use widowmakers. well equipped ghosts using a bramble/fort setup, can give bvcs a run for their money ww vs ww. hybrids have the traps to supplement the whirlwind, but considering how the good barbs can kill pure trappers pretty readily, the hybrid will be forced into some ww vs ww confrontations, where she will clearly be at a disadvantage. there is a bit of synergy between the ww and traps, but i still don't think it gives the hybrid that much of an advantage over a ghost in that theatre, especially if the barb slaps on a tgods or equivalent. however, with the addition of widowmaker, the hybrid will be just as effective as the ghost using the bow, as the benefit from the extra points the ghost has in claw mastery and fade will be null, and having damaging traps will be a definite plus. whether that translates into a tangible difference in the duels depends on how well you can use it, as seems to be the theme with most characters.



 
Sass said:
Does anyone have any strategies (other than the first post) that works? Are smiters like bvc/bvb and is the like the ghosts's bane? Not sure, but my hybrid may have to duel melee chars.
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Not as exciting as moe's hybrid vs vt duels but this might be more of what youre looking for.
This is pretty much how I treat the average smiter with whirls:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6IXgWoX1bk

My style of whirling against smiters is a bit different than moe's, cause well, he plays a hybrid and thats how you get the job done on a hybrid.
Watch directions of whirls with wwsin, especially at the parts where I get low on health when he is charging straight at me. And that last duel where the smiter requested to duel me without me using shadow/traps. Thats how you can avoid getting hit while whirling around.
I was dueling kinda laid back so there are some mistakes in the vid you can take note to as well. definetly not as intense of a duel as hybrid vs vt, in general dueling a vt on any type of sin is more fast paced, vs smiters you can kinda just play laid back and hold down mouse2 for a while to keep whirling around. They have to come to you. If they wait in one spot you can always spam mindblast to provoke them to come at you.

To note: I use 135 frw on my wwsin (circlet + 08 highlords + gores + enigma)
I find faster whirl movement speeds to be key vs smite, same as that barb which is loaded up with 15x 320/5frw charms. More frw will make your duel easier vs smiters, and is one of the reasons why I found enigma to always be superior to fort/bramble setups when dueling smiters.



 
Tienje, could you explain how you are bugging your claws if you have a chaos suwayahh and you still manage to use a runic fury in your primary claw? You said to use the slower claw on primary since the formula is WSM = average + (right WSM – left WSM). And your right claw(suwayahh with 0) - the left claw(runic with -30) would be 30. Then average would be -15+30 = 15 wsm.
I in fact have the same setup of chaos suwayahh in right claw and runic in left, and im failing to bug it.
 
The way I understand it now is that you have the suwayyah on your left claw (normally the primary claw slot), but when you bug it by lifting and replacing the suwayyah then the right claw becomes your new primary claw.

Dancers vs Rares/Treks:

If I use rares I gain:
40 light/fire res

If I use dancers I gain:
+20 fhr (subtracted 10 fhr because all my boots have at least 10)
+2 shadow

If I use treks I gain:
+15 vita
+70 poison resists
+10 fhr

The most fundamental question right now is treks or dancers (I have the rares but I don't wanna depend on them). The stats are moot (I calculated), since I need a 20 str 10 fcr ring (it has mass ar and stuff too) and 7 more str in either a jewel or hard points in order to wear dancers, but I gain 21 dex (losing 13 dex from my other godly fcr ring). So the difference is pretty negligible.

To me it seems like the 10 extra fhr and 2 shadow skills is well worth the 15 vita and some poison resists right? If I lost two shadow skillers I could gain 40 life, and 15 resist all, which seems better than the treks benefits. So does dancers win?
 
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@ Tien, today I dueled a BvA and I find that he was using widow + enigma to shoot me. I knew that my traps > his widow, so I was aggressive, but didn't DoD or anything. I think I just have to practice but it seems that WW away got me 2 free hits when he couldn't. The two of us dueled for about four solid hours, so I think I'm comfortable vs a BvC since the barb also had a shield after all.

@ wiz, Thanks for the video. The last fight seems to represent how I have to duel smiters. I barely have time to lay traps and have to WW since I just "know" he's really right next to me and I can't rely on my screen.

The BvA had a smiter that he tried and I dueled that for an hour. It may be lag since it's open and he was from Portugal, but I think I've gotten better at predicting desynch ^^. Especially when I'm laying traps and hear a "tink" from my claw >.>

@ fatal. I do understand wsm bugging ^^

The Suwayyah is on the glove side, and runic is boot side.

Normally, the glove is primary, but wsm bug makes the boot primary by lifting the glove-side claw (making the boot stay and technically be "first" and thus primary). The new primary, the boot-side runic, is the right (-30) and suwayyah is left (0).

wsm = avg (-15) + [right(-30) - left(0)]
wsm = -15 + [-30 - 0]
wsm = -15 + -30
wsm = -45

See?
 
wizAdept said:
To note: I use 135 frw on my wwsin (circlet + 08 highlords + gores + enigma)
I find faster whirl movement speeds to be key vs smite, same as that barb which is loaded up with 15x 320/5frw charms. More frw will make your duel easier vs smiters, and is one of the reasons why I found enigma to always be superior to fort/bramble setups when dueling smiters.
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This is really extremely helpful against smiters. I have always been too lazy to get extra gear against smiters but now that I'm slowly quitting d2 and only log on now and then I think I will pimp my assassin a little bit.
Whirl movement speed is the key against good smiters. I tested around with BoS (since I can max DR without fade if I want to) and it makes up a significant difference but since exile and lifetap are considered GM on eunl I rely on fade in those duels.
Now I am looking for an extra circ against smiters/VTs (and maybe trappers) with 2/20/30/2sock @. What fcr do you guys use against smiters? I tend to still teleport a lot (e.g. when holy freezed or lifetapped) so I have always been using 65 so far but I think 42 might work as well to the favor of other important stats against smiters such as frw and ar.

At least on europe nl, where exile is commonly used and smiters come up with really high def and lifetap, I find those duels pretty hard as wwsin if the smiter is any good. HF flashing and 10% slow from belt combined with fast tele smiting can give a lot of trouble.
I personally think (in contrast to dave) that such a smiter with some experience will pretty much slaughter ghosts and hybrids.
However, really talented smiters are very very rarely seen so ...


/PS: max, do you know your AR and the smiter's def in those duels by chance?



 
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Moritz said:
This is really extremely helpful against smiters. I have always been too lazy to get extra gear against smiters but now that I'm slowly quitting d2 and only log on now and then I think I will pimp my assassin a little bit.
Whirl movement speed is the key against good smiters. I tested around with BoS (since I can max DR without fade if I want to) and it makes up a significant difference but since exile and lifetap are considered GM on eunl I rely on fade in those duels.
Now I am looking for an extra circ against smiters/VTs (and maybe trappers) with 2/20/30/2sock @. What fcr do you guys use against smiters? I tend to still teleport a lot (e.g. when holy freezed or lifetapped) so I have always been using 65 so far but I think 42 might work as well to the favor of other important stats against smiters such as frw and ar.

At least on europe nl, where exile is commonly used and smiters come up with really high def and lifetap, I find those duels pretty hard as wwsin if the smiter is any good. HF flashing and 10% slow from belt combined with fast tele smiting can give a lot of trouble.
I personally think (in contrast to dave) that such a smiter with some experience will pretty much slaughter ghosts and hybrids.
However, really talented smiters are very very rarely seen so ...


/PS: max, do you know your AR and the smiter's def in those duels by chance?
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for pure smiters, most of the time i'm able to just keep my normal vs caster setup on, because like you said, the good ones are extremely rare. when i do see one of those good tele-smiters that flash HF, i usually slap on my fort/gskull anti melee setup. the KB really helps me keep distance with them. it'll still be impossible to parry all his hits that way, so what i do usually is shorten my whirls significantly vs. these smiters. i keep my whirls at almost dod length, so that i can immediately switch directions and turn away when the smiter tries to teleport in front of my path. my ghost with the anti-melee setup has barb-like damage, and so the smiters need to think twice about mindlessly teleporting into my whirl, even if its HF'd. i've also found that keeping a few wof up around you (or LS in your case) was able to keep the smiter from teleporting and forced him to charge, so that significantly lowered the threat.

i was playing around using cat's eye vs smiters because i liked the extra speed the whirl had when i slapped it on for my nef widowmaker, but i haven't found it to be more effective than the anti-melee setup sadly.

i hate using that whirling away strategy because its exactly why i hate the hybrids on this realm, but thats about all i can do vs them.



 
everything is viable in pubs :azn:.

as with every other build, it just depends on how good you are relative to the other players.
 
Tienje, do you know if the gosu_vels scissor suwayyah was ever duped as a virgin base or as an unperm? I ask because someone is claiming to have a legit gosu_vels scissor suwayyah. Currently a fury.
 
hey tienje i have a ar problem and i did take ur advice on takign a fools but i dont feel its effective and duels and i was thinking of using eth tucs but i dont know y my ar is so low with fury or tucs cause its like 3.5 k ar and i maxed mastery do u know what the problem is?
 
Smithenator said:
Tienje, do you know if the gosu_vels scissor suwayyah was ever duped as a virgin base or as an unperm? I ask because someone is claiming to have a legit gosu_vels scissor suwayyah. Currently a fury.
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i have one of those SS fury's as well, so i'm pretty sure it'll be unperm. people think its perm because (effectively) nobody else has one and so they don't need to perm. i'm pretty sure even the legit originally copy will be poofable once its duped.



 
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