PvP Moor Challenge! Best vs The Rest (3v4)

What realm would you recommend I play for my first Hard-Core D2 account?


  • Total voters
    13
I would love to take part in this and I think I'll be able to.

I lack experience here but I think it would be possible for the Paladin and Barbarian to teleport in and take the heat while the sorceress gives Red team hell. It won't be easy though. And we just have to stack 400% cold resist. Piece of cake. :tongue:

We're lucky with the match-up. Imagine if the Paladin, Barbarian and Amazon had been on the same team (considering the 2v2v2).
 
Thyiad saunters into the Forum, ambles towards an interesting thread and trips over this ....
I'd like to call again on Thyiad, our previous host to fill the 8th Slot.
*Pulls jacket down, straightens shoulders and salutes*

"Reporting for hosting duty, sirah!"

(I'm supposed to be working now so the sooner I know the date and time the better. :flowers:)



 
Yep I'm occupied the 9th. So.. now what, move the date a week forward/backward, a day backward or let someone else fill the sorc spot?

How does December 2nd sound? That's just 2 weeks away though so any rebuilds are going to have to be done quickly. Would this work with everyone? Too soon? December 2nd =gg?

xDoomasx said:
I hope that means that your enigma stays with me for another challange
Yeah, your barb wouldn't be much without it and we want a challenge!

Toppo said:
Winners can spend a night with me.
...Must...win...challenge... /drools

jrlafrance said:
I voted for Blue becuase Liq is on Red
Careful france! Remarks like that could make me angry. And you don't want to see me when I'm angry. /hulk mode :wink3:

Thyiad said:
(I'm supposed to be working now so the sooner I know the date and time the better. )
As soon as we find an appropriate time, you'll be the 1st to know. Thanks again!



 
If dent and doom can back me up I can whip up a killer before the 2nd.

EDIT: Oh I'm sorry, I didn't mean killer.. I ment uh.. winner. No wait.. obliviator? .. uhm oh well.. can't make myself an underdog this time. :azn:
 
I'll list some advantages that I see for each team. (This is based on the characters that were used for the other challenge and only holds true if there is no switching or rebuilding)

Blue Team
-3 players
-higher natural BO from the barb
-Concentration boosts barbs dmg
-Meditation boosts life and mana regen (particularly helpful for the sorc)
-3 forms of dmg (fire, phys, magic)
-Mobility (2 teleport, 1 desynch charge)

Red Team
-4 players
-range, all the ranged characters minus the fireball sorceress made it on this team (note: I don't consider Windy ranged and I only consider trapper medium range)
-Oak sage
-CtA BO
-Amplify dmg for painful Tornados and Guided Arrows
-4 forms of dmg (cold, lightning, phys, magic)
-Minions to soak up hits
-Mobility (3 teleport, 1 runs)

Just some food for thought.
 
How can I vote Blue when the characters I've done best with at this game are on the Red team?

Is there ever an end to these challenges Liq? :tongue: I'd best get my backside in gear finishing off a character properly so that I can look forward to taking part in the next one of these open to even newbs like myself.

Here's hoping the battlefield will be strewen with the bodies and ears of barbarians, sorcs and paladins!
 
Is there ever an end to these challenges Liq?

Boy I hope not. As long as I can keep a group of people interested, I don't run out of ideas, and people don't get sick of them, I'd like to see them become a main staple of the SP forum. (1 a month or so) I find them ridiculously fun and they seem to generate interest in pvp which is great. Thy is a godsend with her being able to record and show people what they are missing out on.

Oh, and thanks for the vote and I hope your character gets done soon so it can be featured in the '07 challenges. :wink3:



 
Had to vote Blue by a slim margin on this one. I think the Blue team has the top two team friendly classes for dueling in the pali and the barb. This will give the sorc and pali a significant increase in life and mana via BO, and the pali's conc/fanat will make the barb even more of a killing machine in this bout. However, the sorc isn't so helpful on her own, but adds the all important ranged attack that is lacking in barb and pali. Add in the sickening speed with which Sint was able to Tele in and out of the fray and I think they'll have a good edge. But since elemental damage will only be coming in one primary flavor from this team, sorc's effectiveness may not be so great as in the FFA. Cold sorc may be the way to go in this fight. For tactics I'd imagine they'd try taking out the Windy first to remove Oak Sage, then Zon as she should be the biggest threat to the sorc and was an incredibly easy kill for the Barb in the FFA.

The Red team seems a bit more of a motley crew to me. The druids Oak sage will be quite helpful to all of course, and the necro's curses should come in handy (amp for windy/Zon or LR for trapper). The Red team also has the only 'heat seeking' attacks in PvP with BS, GA and traps, these may prove incredibly useful in tagging the strobe tele techniques of the sorc. Everyone is saying the summons will be a great advantage for the Red team, but these should only be useful against the sorc. The pali's hammers will pierce through summoned shields, while summons can act as potions for Barbs with a decent amount of leech. For tactics, I imagine they'd target the pali first since his desync and hammers are a big threat, and his auras help out the barb. If the Red team gets an early upperhand, I see a lot of rounds coming down to the Red team trying to hunt down the Sorc. But, the sorc should be much less effective in this battle especially if everyone remembers their hotspurs and dwarfstar. And lets not forget about the inherent advantage of having an extra body on the playing field. Hmm, maybe I should switch my vote over to the Red Team.

O yeah, forgot to mention I don't PvP at all, but have been thuroughly enjoying watching and somewhat studying the FFA videos. Take all this with a half a grain of salt. And thanks again for the FFA vids. Can't wait for the team duels to be up, always loved the team dueling concept.
 
Bah, I know I have already posted my n00by views, but I was tinkering around with this in the back of my mind a little earlier (being the hopeless strategy-lover that I am :laugh: ) and it occured to me that the Red team seems to have a nice advantage in the element of surprise. The barbarian obviously will be smashing stuff, I can see the paladin being either V/T or Liberator (I am not sure of what sort of gear Denton has access to, but I would imagine someone with Grief and Fortitude would have most of the desired items), and the sorc will focus on one element...most likely fire, since lightning would squander the multi-element opportunity by overlapping FoH and Blizzard is relatively easily avoidable with Teleport (as mentioned in the FFA afterpost by Sint), plus the unspammablity seems like a distinct drawback in a team setting when attacks could (and should <_<) come from multiple directions at once. On the other hand, Oak Sage can be just as usable with a windy as with a fury/rabies druid (though the former is likely the superior dueler overall), sablast can **** with Blue's defenses using either Amp or LR (assuming that he has necros with either...I would not expect a PvP boner to have curses for obvious reasons, but depending on his weapon [mayhap a juicy 'White' instead of HotO, for instance] and on if he goes boner or novamancer...), the assassin has a bit of an assortment of build choices, and Kefir might well have time to get up any javazon of his choice if he decides to not use the bowazon this time (again assuming that he does not already have one laying around...though, given the level of the gear in use by you guys, I am not sure how much you would actually need to shuffle around gear to counter that). Chances are my lack of PvP experience is showing itself quite glaringly, but I like the way that the Red team can effectively use just about any type of damage (ok, maybe not fire, unless Liquid has a FC PvPer sitting somewhere <_<), depending on the builds they come in with. To a degree, that is probably offset by the Blue team being able to stash more resistance gear than usual since they can rely on Doomas's warcries instead of each needing CtA, but then...yeah, chances are I am just overthinking things. Still, though, I am very interested in seeing how y'all are going to go into this whole thing.

Maybe once I finish the two dozen or so more PvM builds I want to try, I should get around to doing some PvP too. Of course, by then, everyone else will be playing Diablo 3 :laugh:
 
I'd offer some insights, but based on the last two challenges I seem to do better when I randomly flame people rather than when I provide any objective analysis. So with that said, the blue team is a bunch of talentless hacks and their supporters are sycophants desperate to get into the limelight.
 
Bah, I know I have already posted my n00by views, but I was tinkering around with this in the back of my mind a little earlier (being the hopeless strategy-lover that I am :laugh: )
Not nooby at all. By all means, post your hearts content. I like seeing how others view things, it helps me to step away from myself and get another perspective. Besides, I read through your post and you made some good points. For a strictly PvM guy, you do seem to understand some of the issues involved in team dueling. You mention not doubling up on types of dmg (i.e. lightning) in order to force opponents to resist for multiple elements and reduce their "hurt gear" (or not resist and take more dmg), the necessity of spammable skills and some other things that impressed me. Hopefully you'll be done with your 2 dozen PvM builds soon enough and ready to try your hand at dueling. It looks like you have a mind for it.

and it occured to me that the Red team seems to have a nice advantage in the element of surprise.
Aye. But 2 weeks to hammer out a new char, outfit it with appropriate wares (some of which you may not have), and practice with it doesn't give us much time. I'm lucky to have a few druids already made and raring to go.

(I am not sure of what sort of gear Denton has access to, but I would imagine someone with Grief and Fortitude would have most of the desired items)
I don't believe Denton has an Enigma or has borrowed one for the challenge. (Know thine enemy is a rule I live by :wink:)

sablast can **** with Blue's defenses using either Amp or LR (assuming that he has necros with either...I would not expect a PvP boner to have curses for obvious reasons
He was built specifically for the 2v2v2 and teaming with a barb so he does have a point in Amp dmg.

(ok, maybe not fire, unless Liquid has a FC PvPer sitting somewhere <_<)

I have a FC Bear parked at lvl ~79, but wouldn't use it in the challenge seeing as how the other druids I made are much better (and finished!). I have been looking for a reason to use the Fury/Rabies, but I just don't think it will be as effective as the Windy. Maybe something will occur to me during an epiphany of strategic brillance. Maybe not.



 
Crap, I don't have enough time to write anything except that I really, really, really dislike 3v4 idea. Yeah, that gives all classes chance to participate but it still doesn't seem right. 3v3 or 4v4 FTW :tongue: But it still looks like interesting match, I will post my detailed (and probably completely failed :smiley: ) prediction later.
 
Crap, I don't have enough time to write anything except that I really, really, really dislike 3v4 idea.

Any particular reason why? Just doesn't seem balanced to you or what? You'd think the "power" chars would offset the matchup and it actually would be balanced. I like having a twist in these challenges (surprise chars, an extra team, an extra player) and I thought this one was played nicely.

And as long as you predict red team will win, your prediction won't be failed. :wink3:



 
For a strictly PvM guy, you do seem to understand some of the issues involved in team dueling. You mention not doubling up on types of dmg (i.e. lightning) in order to force opponents to resist for multiple elements and reduce their "hurt gear" (or not resist and take more dmg), the necessity of spammable skills and some other things that impressed me. Hopefully you'll be done with your 2 dozen PvM builds soon enough and ready to try your hand at dueling. It looks like you have a mind for it.
Thanks. Being something of a self-taught street fighter IRL (and a rather successful one, I would say, given that I am a fairly small person who has yet to decisively lose a fight), I do have something of a knack for the art of combat :wink3: . Granted, I fair much worse in digital arenas, but nevertheless...Go Red! :laugh:

Denton may lack Enigma, but I would imagine his desynching fairly well makes up for that (on a related note, in the FFA videos, I must say that Doomas's kill where he whirled through the path that Denton was going to Charge through right at the end of one of the later rounds was probably my favorite part...sadly, I do not expect to see him do it again in this challenge :laugh: ).



 
“Those who can’t, coach.â€

Since I don’t have internet at my apartment, the above quote is referenced. That said, here’s my pvp analysis:

Blue team
The blue team brings together three types of damage and OW. They also have a one of each type of attack range wise (close combat, semi-ranged and ranged).

Sint surprised the hell out of me (and everyone but Zhao) when he took the FFA with speed and heavy pre-buffing. If he brings the same character (he should, despite the comments that a blizzy would be better), he’ll need to act as this team’s artillery and use his speed/damage to force the Red team to back off. He should tele around his teammate to keep constant fire on the opponents.

Some have said that Sint should rebuild and bring a blizzy or some other AoE-based sorc. Why not a bliz or ES orber? Both of these skills have timers that completely fuxxor teleporting for a few frames after the timered spell is cast. No good being a sitting duck. Lightning is harder to aim and slower on the attack. Thus, FB is the best choice. With more life from Barb’s BO, things should be pretty sweet. This team will be dependent on forcing opponents to back off or fear 7 fpc FB’s. If they come close, they meet a hammer field and a WW’ing barb enhanced by concentration.

Red team should focus on killing Liq and Kab, and probably the latter first to eliminate a range advantage (Red only has one element to absorb besides physical, not counting Liq’s hurricane). Then a charging pally/teleporting barb should do a once-over of one of the opposing characters and get out of there and let OW work. This all would be supported by well-aimed FB’s.

Red Team

The Red Team is all about range. Kefir’s zon will be blasting away, protected by Liq up close. In addition to the GA’s, sablast’s necro can amp (unsure on radius) and send spears, something he should do more of this duel. Finally, Kab knows how to make the trapper’s range-advantage count by throwing traps at the corners and edge of screen for maximum coverage. Unlike Liq, I consider trappers ranged because I’m quite sure that as LS increases in slvl, so does its range (the same goes for WoF, only that is AoE based, and speaking of a WoF trapper, I should build one….).

This team will rely on Kab’s scouting, even if his traps are heavily absorbed. Traps should be thrown at the top left and right corners (one in each), with the rest of the traps waiting to be laid. Then the team should move toward the traps, and once they come to them, more should be laid. If heavily absorbed, the minimal damage they provide will still work for stunning an opponent. But how long is Kab’s stun length? Stun will be a powerful thing, especially if Kab and Kefir stick together. Sablast and Liq should stick together.

Kefir should focus on killing the sorc, which will eliminate Blue’s range and speed advantage. But Kefir, you NEED open wounds on your zon to be effective! It’s like free damage.

Red also gets an advantage of only relying on absorbing one element (in addition to physical).

General comments on tvt
TvT is a totally different animal, and because builds should be focused on damage and speed output and not finesse (this is why a pure trapper is better than a WW sin or hybrid in a team).

That being said, I’ve got the give the advantage to Red. More players notwithstanding, they’ve got superior range. Blue is more mobile, but they need to be closer to do damage.

So there, preliminary analysis done.

crg
 
Sorry for the bump & hijack, but.

@Liq, your PM box is full. Slacker. :neener:
:grin:
 
Any particular reason why? Just doesn't seem balanced to you or what?

Yeah, it seems unbalanced. TvT isn't FFA and it's not like red team is full of n00bs...

And as long as you predict red team will win, your prediction won't be failed. :wink3:

Just look at my DOA and FFA challenge predictions. I'm actually quite annoyed with your incompetence lately, you are losing challenges and because of that my predictions look foolish. Bad Liq :tongue:

@ Harrid: make PvP char. It looks like you know what you are talking about.

“Those who can’t, coach.â€

Since I don’t have internet at my apartment, the above quote is referenced.

Sounds familiar. It seems I'm reduced to comentator/spamer role also... and I don't even have enough time for proper spaming. RL sucks.

OK, now it's time for my "expert" analysis.

Poor blue team... they are true underdogs in this match. After FFA finals I guess everyone realized that having Hotspurs might be a wise idea... 11k firebal @ 75 res: 467 PvP dmg. @ 90 res: 187. And since red team has to worry only about physical and fire dmg it's much easier to use Hotspurs. Also this time there's whole team and not only indvidual targets... and in that team there's also assassin with MB and bowazon with OW. Ouch. For this type of match Blizzy should be better IMO: it's harder to stack againts it and it works better vs big group of enemies than FB. It's not like liberator will have easier job. Even with godly desynch spaming hammers becomes near impossible vs concentrated MB, druid's telestomp and GA & BS spam. We saw how effective was well protected bowazon vs hammerdin in DOA challenge. Standing there and spaming BH won't work... and charge is useless vs teleporting wind druid. V/T might work better (especialy teamed with cold sorc) but if sorc dies whole "charge around with conviction" thing becomes silly. Barb will have trouble with all these minions runing around, they will absorb alot of WW hits (and somehow I doubt howling at minions will work in TvT, just not enough time & opportunity). Also there's one evil possibility which for some strange reason isn't banned... and if Sablast has point in one nasty skill WW might become best way to commit suicide (just like in Chaos sanctuary/WSK).

Blue team just doesn't have ranged attack. Blue team also doesn't have any way to defend from ranged spam... and that means they must charge at their opponents. Doesn't look good.

Red team has huge advantage here, despite their bad (individual) results in FFA. One extra char is something that should make a difference. There's bowazon, char that has deadly attack (GA & kb) but doesn't have any deffense... but now there are other chars to provide BO (IIRC 3 members of red team have beta CtA) and wall of minions to protect fragile blonde girl. If there's tornado spaming druid protecting zon with minion stack that zon will live long enough to spend all arrows and turn members of blue team into swiss cheese. Melee aproach obviously won't work vs that. Sorc will be biggest threat (with some AoE spell of even FB, splash radius is big enough), but assassin is there to take care of sorc. Here I agree with CRG: assassin is probably the biggest problem for blue team: charging/whirling blindly in hope to kill kab isn't good idea... and with kab alive blue team loses only source of ranged attack (sorc). Oh, and lets not forget there's also 4th member of red team: necro who will much better chance to spear lock opponents than in FFA... and those spear hurt alot.

Red team will probably win, but I hope blue team will surprise me and pwn them :wink3:



 
Allright where's the trash talk?

Lets be realistic, liqs last two challanges didnt go well for him, so now he tries to position himself on a team with advantage:wink3: Well I dont want to spoil your bubble, but that wont save you.
I cant even image the pressure that lies on your shoulders now, that will be your ultimate Doom...did I say DooM? Muhahahahaha:evil:
 
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