Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
- Thread starter Your Average WoW Player
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Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Now what ever gives you the idea I would have known this? I did not know the stats would be public until YAWP posted the link to the quicktopic in the thread.
I have given you something. I've warned you about mass claiming, and that it could lead to the exposure and death of the town recruiter. I have confirmed that the town recruiter exists, and that he is indeed town aligned, though others had theorized the same before. I can give you more in due time, but for the time being I see it better to keep some things secret. What else would you expect of me?
Actually, 2-2-2 and 4-1-1 are equal on average. I agree 4-1-1 is incredibly low for Orgrim, but I can't help what I know.
I could not pick my name, but I could point out that my name and my class do not match. Perhaps I got a leftover name, since someone else has picked the name of Garona Halforcen (an actual spymaster, one of few Warcraft characters I know). I can't really say if my stats match my role or not, though they do at least as far as me having a power role.
I could believe that some players could have chosen their names, which may have resulted in odd combinations like Gorny's role. But not all. Choosing your name might be a way of including Warcraft flavor, but at the same time it would mean that a name alone was not enough to prove someone pro-town.
It occurs to me that if you were allowed to choose your name, it would mean that there was risk of overlap. You may have chosen a name that was taken, and had to choose something else, or perhaps some names were reserved to begin with. So I ask, is either of these cases true? Do you know of any other names that were reserved or already chosen by others? I'm not sure if you should reveal them, yes or no would do for now.
Now what ever gives you the idea I would have known this? I did not know the stats would be public until YAWP posted the link to the quicktopic in the thread.
I have given you something. I've warned you about mass claiming, and that it could lead to the exposure and death of the town recruiter. I have confirmed that the town recruiter exists, and that he is indeed town aligned, though others had theorized the same before. I can give you more in due time, but for the time being I see it better to keep some things secret. What else would you expect of me?
Actually, 2-2-2 and 4-1-1 are equal on average. I agree 4-1-1 is incredibly low for Orgrim, but I can't help what I know.
I could not pick my name, but I could point out that my name and my class do not match. Perhaps I got a leftover name, since someone else has picked the name of Garona Halforcen (an actual spymaster, one of few Warcraft characters I know). I can't really say if my stats match my role or not, though they do at least as far as me having a power role.
I could believe that some players could have chosen their names, which may have resulted in odd combinations like Gorny's role. But not all. Choosing your name might be a way of including Warcraft flavor, but at the same time it would mean that a name alone was not enough to prove someone pro-town.
It occurs to me that if you were allowed to choose your name, it would mean that there was risk of overlap. You may have chosen a name that was taken, and had to choose something else, or perhaps some names were reserved to begin with. So I ask, is either of these cases true? Do you know of any other names that were reserved or already chosen by others? I'm not sure if you should reveal them, yes or no would do for now.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Let's bring back that quote again shall we.
Yes you didn't know the injuries would be made public, but you devised your plan around the fact they would be. Your initial plan was to have people fight and retreat so we could get the stats from the players and find out roles. Most of us didn't agree because it would out powerful pro-town people as well as the cult recruiter. Then you realised the injuries could be private and the issue was that we had to trust you to give us the true stats of the people you fought. Still giving us the stats of every player in a fight.
And now that you got the stats of one person you suddenly pull out of the idea. I'm not buying it. Everything went according to your plan.
Let's bring back that quote again shall we.
Yes you didn't know the injuries would be made public, but you devised your plan around the fact they would be. Your initial plan was to have people fight and retreat so we could get the stats from the players and find out roles. Most of us didn't agree because it would out powerful pro-town people as well as the cult recruiter. Then you realised the injuries could be private and the issue was that we had to trust you to give us the true stats of the people you fought. Still giving us the stats of every player in a fight.
And now that you got the stats of one person you suddenly pull out of the idea. I'm not buying it. Everything went according to your plan.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
I'm the cop and investigated Feysal last night. he is, in fact, anti-town.
I'm the cop and investigated Feysal last night. he is, in fact, anti-town.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
When did you pick your class? Was it before the first day started or sometime after? Were you given a choice of classes to pick from? If so, would you mind publishing the list? Did your stats change to match the class you picked? What is the difference between your role and your class? In other words, why would your role be irrelevant if you could choose your class?
When did you pick your class? Was it before the first day started or sometime after? Were you given a choice of classes to pick from? If so, would you mind publishing the list? Did your stats change to match the class you picked? What is the difference between your role and your class? In other words, why would your role be irrelevant if you could choose your class?
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
With respect, that is an extremely poor reason to place the lynching vote on a player you know to be pro-town.
Are you worried the mafia could have a role as powerful as you? Would that change your calculus in any way?
With respect, that is an extremely poor reason to place the lynching vote on a player you know to be pro-town.
Are you worried the mafia could have a role as powerful as you? Would that change your calculus in any way?
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Now, since you mention my initial plan, let's see what my initial plan was, in my first post on the subject:
In its original form, I expected that the injuries would be posted in thread, but that the stats would not be. The two combatants, knowing their own stats, could make an informed guess at each others' stats, while the town at large would get information that was much more vague. I never said a word about telling the town what mine or the other combatant's stats were.
Now, let's see how the plan developed:
Goryani brought up the problem that the cult could use this method to scout for town power roles. I acknowledged this was a significant risk, and asked YAWP if the injuries would be public or not.
Here again I acknowledged the danger of the cult scouting for power roles with my method, and made it clear that injuries being private would be preferable.
This was YAWP's only post on the subject. There was no mention of injuries being posted in the thread, only the final result of the fight. Based on this, I believed the injuries would be between me and the other combatant, which was perfect. I continued to believe that the injuries were private when I started the fight with Leo.
Only now, in my first post today, I had learned that not only the injuries but the rolls and stats were public, which made my plan too risky to continue. I don't think I could've been any clearer about why I wanted to drop the plan. Now, given that you were one of the people concerned about power roles being outed, why the hell would you expect me to continue with the plan after I had specifically stated why it was too risky?
Everything did not go according to plan. Not only were our injuries public, our stats and rolls were public too. I did not want the town to know either of those things, I wanted only me and the other combatant to know those things. To repeat, I never said anything about sharing those results with the town, my intention was to keep those reads to myself and use them to my best judgement. All I planned on telling the town immediately was whether or not I thought my opponent was the cult recruiter, a simple yes or no. This is why it was vital for me to establish trust.
Preview edit: I see Leopold Stotch has claimed an anti-town investigation of me. Posting this now, replying to that next.
Now, since you mention my initial plan, let's see what my initial plan was, in my first post on the subject:
In its original form, I expected that the injuries would be posted in thread, but that the stats would not be. The two combatants, knowing their own stats, could make an informed guess at each others' stats, while the town at large would get information that was much more vague. I never said a word about telling the town what mine or the other combatant's stats were.
Now, let's see how the plan developed:
Goryani brought up the problem that the cult could use this method to scout for town power roles. I acknowledged this was a significant risk, and asked YAWP if the injuries would be public or not.
Here again I acknowledged the danger of the cult scouting for power roles with my method, and made it clear that injuries being private would be preferable.
This was YAWP's only post on the subject. There was no mention of injuries being posted in the thread, only the final result of the fight. Based on this, I believed the injuries would be between me and the other combatant, which was perfect. I continued to believe that the injuries were private when I started the fight with Leo.
Only now, in my first post today, I had learned that not only the injuries but the rolls and stats were public, which made my plan too risky to continue. I don't think I could've been any clearer about why I wanted to drop the plan. Now, given that you were one of the people concerned about power roles being outed, why the hell would you expect me to continue with the plan after I had specifically stated why it was too risky?
Everything did not go according to plan. Not only were our injuries public, our stats and rolls were public too. I did not want the town to know either of those things, I wanted only me and the other combatant to know those things. To repeat, I never said anything about sharing those results with the town, my intention was to keep those reads to myself and use them to my best judgement. All I planned on telling the town immediately was whether or not I thought my opponent was the cult recruiter, a simple yes or no. This is why it was vital for me to establish trust.
Preview edit: I see Leopold Stotch has claimed an anti-town investigation of me. Posting this now, replying to that next.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
You misunderstood. I was against the plan back then and I still am. I merely wondered why you are against the plan all of a sudden after you knew the risks.
So, you wanted to know the injuries and resulting stats of everyone you could fight and you had no intention of sharing them with the town. But when you found the cult recruiter you would tell us. Making it his word against yours. No proof. And you then know the stats of every player.
I'm sorry but that's crossing the line. I want to believe your role, but I don't believe you.
Unvote: nurman
Vote: Feysal
You misunderstood. I was against the plan back then and I still am. I merely wondered why you are against the plan all of a sudden after you knew the risks.
So, you wanted to know the injuries and resulting stats of everyone you could fight and you had no intention of sharing them with the town. But when you found the cult recruiter you would tell us. Making it his word against yours. No proof. And you then know the stats of every player.
I'm sorry but that's crossing the line. I want to believe your role, but I don't believe you.
Unvote: nurman
Vote: Feysal
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Investigations and results for other nights? It might be the only way short of mass claiming to prove/disprove Feysal's claim.
Investigations and results for other nights? It might be the only way short of mass claiming to prove/disprove Feysal's claim.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
I wanted to see what people would say about nurman and the others before I roleclaimed.
I'm Rokhan, my role is a spy. Each night I can investigate someone. Additionally there's a chance a lynch against me will fail. I'll leave my stats absent for now.
Investigations:
Night 1 - Noodle - Pro-Town
Night 2 - Bad Ash - didn't receive any info
Night 3 - Feysal - Pro-Town
Night 4 - nurman - Mafia
In the last two games the non-sane cop roles weren't able to determine their alignment through self-investigation, so I just chose someone who I usually find hard to read for the first night.
For the second night, I decided to check Bad Ash since the last time Bad Ash was mafia he left Noodle alive. However for this night I never received a result. I sent YAWP a few queries to make sure he hadn't mistakenly forgotten to send the result but never received an answer.
The third night, I chose Feysal as I wasn't too sure about him yet and he additionally had a lot interactions with others.
The fourth night, I chose nurman because he had yet to vote in the game and had otherwise provided minimal content. I was expecting a Pro-Town/Anti-Town result but instead got Mafia for nurman.
On the third day I hadn't figured out my sanity yet. So when Feysal made his claim of spymaster, I couldn't depend on my result on him yet. That he knew spy was the cop equivalent for this game helped. I considered he might have gotten the role from a NK or from a convert. A convert might have then been able to give the result for Gorny allowing Feysal to make that post about rogue and backstabbing. If that were the case however, Feysal would have to keeping making up full roles for each investigation. So a false claim of cop that gave full roles felt unlikely.
With Noodle dead and a Mafia result on nurman, I'm now pretty confident that I'm sane. Which makes Feysal town.
For nurman, I suggest we don't lynch him but rather fight him. I'll volunteer myself for this unless someone else thinks there's a better idea. This will give us a second "lynch" for today.
[/QUOTE]
I wanted to see what people would say about nurman and the others before I roleclaimed.
I'm Rokhan, my role is a spy. Each night I can investigate someone. Additionally there's a chance a lynch against me will fail. I'll leave my stats absent for now.
Investigations:
Night 1 - Noodle - Pro-Town
Night 2 - Bad Ash - didn't receive any info
Night 3 - Feysal - Pro-Town
Night 4 - nurman - Mafia
In the last two games the non-sane cop roles weren't able to determine their alignment through self-investigation, so I just chose someone who I usually find hard to read for the first night.
For the second night, I decided to check Bad Ash since the last time Bad Ash was mafia he left Noodle alive. However for this night I never received a result. I sent YAWP a few queries to make sure he hadn't mistakenly forgotten to send the result but never received an answer.
The third night, I chose Feysal as I wasn't too sure about him yet and he additionally had a lot interactions with others.
The fourth night, I chose nurman because he had yet to vote in the game and had otherwise provided minimal content. I was expecting a Pro-Town/Anti-Town result but instead got Mafia for nurman.
On the third day I hadn't figured out my sanity yet. So when Feysal made his claim of spymaster, I couldn't depend on my result on him yet. That he knew spy was the cop equivalent for this game helped. I considered he might have gotten the role from a NK or from a convert. A convert might have then been able to give the result for Gorny allowing Feysal to make that post about rogue and backstabbing. If that were the case however, Feysal would have to keeping making up full roles for each investigation. So a false claim of cop that gave full roles felt unlikely.
With Noodle dead and a Mafia result on nurman, I'm now pretty confident that I'm sane. Which makes Feysal town.
For nurman, I suggest we don't lynch him but rather fight him. I'll volunteer myself for this unless someone else thinks there's a better idea. This will give us a second "lynch" for today.
[/QUOTE]
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
That is all?
If you are a cop, you've had four nights to investigate. What are your other reads? Have you investigated yourself to check your sanity?
Since I am in fact pro-town, something is amiss here. Either you are an insane cop of some sort, or you are just plain lying. A cop, a power role, having stats that low would surprise me.
In my defense...
Gorny did not leave me much choice. Making these two posts while he was one vote away from lynch was massively anti-town, and I really thought he had some reason for doing that, so I played along. I voted him, just like he asked. When the game is over, you can bet I will want to know what the hell Gorny was thinking.
I have a suspicion that the cult may have a role cop. If they do, that role would be more powerful than me, and it does worry me. As for your latter question, I don't quite understand. What do you mean by my calculus?
Preview edit: and again, more posts. The one from Uraj is particularly interesting. We now have two contradicting investigations on me.
That is all?
If you are a cop, you've had four nights to investigate. What are your other reads? Have you investigated yourself to check your sanity?
Since I am in fact pro-town, something is amiss here. Either you are an insane cop of some sort, or you are just plain lying. A cop, a power role, having stats that low would surprise me.
In my defense...
Gorny did not leave me much choice. Making these two posts while he was one vote away from lynch was massively anti-town, and I really thought he had some reason for doing that, so I played along. I voted him, just like he asked. When the game is over, you can bet I will want to know what the hell Gorny was thinking.
I have a suspicion that the cult may have a role cop. If they do, that role would be more powerful than me, and it does worry me. As for your latter question, I don't quite understand. What do you mean by my calculus?
Preview edit: and again, more posts. The one from Uraj is particularly interesting. We now have two contradicting investigations on me.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
I'm so confused now, I could have sworn YAWP posted you were Gamon/neutral/village idiot and that Feysal had killed you...
But I can't find where YAWP listed that. Did anyone else see that listed? Maybe it was on the post he edited?
I'm so confused now, I could have sworn YAWP posted you were Gamon/neutral/village idiot and that Feysal had killed you...
But I can't find where YAWP listed that. Did anyone else see that listed? Maybe it was on the post he edited?
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Rokhan. Another jungle troll spy, like me. This of course matches my role claim perfectly.
Makes sense. So do your results.
Unless you think you have a better chance of beating him, I could do it instead. My stats are known already, it is not necessary to reveal yours.
Since nurman has admitted to his role being irrelevant, he should play along and agree to be killed. His death and role reveal would confirm whether you are telling the truth, and whether I am telling the truth. And, whether Leopold Stotch was telling the truth about me. Three players confirmed for the price of one death. It practically never gets any better than this.
Say what?
I looked back, and I see that YAWP did edit the post where he posted the link to the quicktopic with the fight. I never saw what was there before he edited it though.
Rokhan. Another jungle troll spy, like me. This of course matches my role claim perfectly.
Makes sense. So do your results.
Unless you think you have a better chance of beating him, I could do it instead. My stats are known already, it is not necessary to reveal yours.
Since nurman has admitted to his role being irrelevant, he should play along and agree to be killed. His death and role reveal would confirm whether you are telling the truth, and whether I am telling the truth. And, whether Leopold Stotch was telling the truth about me. Three players confirmed for the price of one death. It practically never gets any better than this.
Say what?
I looked back, and I see that YAWP did edit the post where he posted the link to the quicktopic with the fight. I never saw what was there before he edited it though.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
You're eager for anything that corroborates your story.
There's another scenario that makes sense. Uraj is an insane cop, he never did investigate himself on night 0. If he is insane then that would mean Noodle and Feysal are anti-town and nurman pro-town. If we fight nurman to his death and he comes up pro-town then Feysal and Noodle were anti-town.
Say we get back to the original mafia killing/recruiting idea. A kill on night 0. No kill on night 1, possible recruitment. A kill on 2. Another kill on night 3, noodle. Which didn't fit the idea of a kill and recruitment every other day. However if Noodle was anti-town and killed by someone other than the mafia then that means there wasn't a kill on night 3, but there was a recruitment.
Someone fight nurman before the day is over, please. I see Feysal offered to do so.
You're eager for anything that corroborates your story.
There's another scenario that makes sense. Uraj is an insane cop, he never did investigate himself on night 0. If he is insane then that would mean Noodle and Feysal are anti-town and nurman pro-town. If we fight nurman to his death and he comes up pro-town then Feysal and Noodle were anti-town.
Say we get back to the original mafia killing/recruiting idea. A kill on night 0. No kill on night 1, possible recruitment. A kill on 2. Another kill on night 3, noodle. Which didn't fit the idea of a kill and recruitment every other day. However if Noodle was anti-town and killed by someone other than the mafia then that means there wasn't a kill on night 3, but there was a recruitment.
Someone fight nurman before the day is over, please. I see Feysal offered to do so.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Just to clarify: You choose who to investigate. You only receive the outcomes you listed and not full roles, not stats, not abilities, etc. Correct?
I haven't seen anything like that.
The calculus question was meant to ask if the possible existence of a cult role cop would affect your ideas on any number of subjects: using fights to look for the cult recruiter, recruitment, mass claiming, immunities, hidden abilities, night kills, etc.
Just to clarify: You choose who to investigate. You only receive the outcomes you listed and not full roles, not stats, not abilities, etc. Correct?
I haven't seen anything like that.
The calculus question was meant to ask if the possible existence of a cult role cop would affect your ideas on any number of subjects: using fights to look for the cult recruiter, recruitment, mass claiming, immunities, hidden abilities, night kills, etc.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Fight: nurman
Correct, just an alignment result no stats, roles or abilities and yes I get to choose who to investigate.
I think I do have a better chance of beating him.
Fight: nurman
Correct, just an alignment result no stats, roles or abilities and yes I get to choose who to investigate.
Re: Y.A.W.P's Warcraft Themed Pen 'n Paper RPG style Mafia Game Game Thread
Wouldn't anyone?
The problem with this theory is that it raises more questions than it answers. Suppose for the sake of argument that Uraj is insane. That would make me and Noodle anti-town, and we would need an explanation for how Noodle died. Serial killer? No good, there should have been more deaths in that case. Vigilante? Same problem except even worse. Bus driver making a lucky switch? Maybe. Paranoid gun owner taking out his attacker? Theoretically possible, but we've never had that role, though Ankeli false claimed it once.
You can speculate further if you like, but I won't bother. I have the advantage of knowing my own role, and since it matches with what Uraj said, I already know he will be proven sane, barring any interference from other power roles.
First of all, I should say that a role cop on the cult side does not seem terribly likely to me, purely because it would be the first time in our games where the anti-towns had a real power role besides a godfather. However, it is still something I can't help worrying over, though there is little we can do about it.
Whether or not there is an anti-town role cop makes no difference to whether we should use fights to identify the cult recruiter. The answer is no either way, since the risk of outing town power roles is too great.
I don't see the role cop having anything to do with recruitment, unless the role cop power was held by the cult recruiter himself. In that case, it is unlikely that the recruiter could use both powers during the same night. We have no evidence of this however and we can't do anything about it anyway.
If we were to mass claim, I admit I would suspect if anyone claimed to investigate people and get their full roles. My power alone is strong enough, having another such power on the town side would be too much.
The main reason why I think there might be a role cop is because of immunities. The cult could use a role cop precisely to find out who the town recruiter was, and thus break one of the conditions for him being unkillable. Even worse could be if they found out what the other condition was.
I have seen no hints of hidden abilities, and don't know what they would have to do with a role cop anyway.
I don't think the same player could investigate and night kill during the same night, but that is about all I can say about that. Since we don't know the roles of any of the night kill victims, it is useless to speculate if the cult knew the roles of any of them before deciding to kill them.
This at least we are agreed on.
Wouldn't anyone?
The problem with this theory is that it raises more questions than it answers. Suppose for the sake of argument that Uraj is insane. That would make me and Noodle anti-town, and we would need an explanation for how Noodle died. Serial killer? No good, there should have been more deaths in that case. Vigilante? Same problem except even worse. Bus driver making a lucky switch? Maybe. Paranoid gun owner taking out his attacker? Theoretically possible, but we've never had that role, though Ankeli false claimed it once.
You can speculate further if you like, but I won't bother. I have the advantage of knowing my own role, and since it matches with what Uraj said, I already know he will be proven sane, barring any interference from other power roles.
First of all, I should say that a role cop on the cult side does not seem terribly likely to me, purely because it would be the first time in our games where the anti-towns had a real power role besides a godfather. However, it is still something I can't help worrying over, though there is little we can do about it.
Whether or not there is an anti-town role cop makes no difference to whether we should use fights to identify the cult recruiter. The answer is no either way, since the risk of outing town power roles is too great.
I don't see the role cop having anything to do with recruitment, unless the role cop power was held by the cult recruiter himself. In that case, it is unlikely that the recruiter could use both powers during the same night. We have no evidence of this however and we can't do anything about it anyway.
If we were to mass claim, I admit I would suspect if anyone claimed to investigate people and get their full roles. My power alone is strong enough, having another such power on the town side would be too much.
The main reason why I think there might be a role cop is because of immunities. The cult could use a role cop precisely to find out who the town recruiter was, and thus break one of the conditions for him being unkillable. Even worse could be if they found out what the other condition was.
I have seen no hints of hidden abilities, and don't know what they would have to do with a role cop anyway.
I don't think the same player could investigate and night kill during the same night, but that is about all I can say about that. Since we don't know the roles of any of the night kill victims, it is useless to speculate if the cult knew the roles of any of them before deciding to kill them.
This at least we are agreed on.
