Sorry for the deeds @Wolron and I'll just echo amazement at progressing that far if all your skill switching was through point-and-click mousing Having even a few skills easily available makes a difference, so I hope you're able to figure out a way that hotkeys can work for you.
I will be returning to Quinta later today and plan to focus on her for a while. So I hope to post a nice progress update by the end of weekend.
I can't insert quotes when editing and need to include the table, so apologies for the double post!
* * *
Quinta finished off Nightmare safely, with a couple nice drops but still not an obvious upgrade on weapon to allow choice of spearazon, javazon, or bowazon route or a better weapon for the merc. Monster rolls were universally awful, with gloams and witches rolling in every area they can. On the positive side, spawners and resurrecters, which are probably the worst given current skills and gear, were limited (only one set mentioned below) and we avoided OKs in WSK3. The update:
Quinta cleared the foothills awhile back (first week of July actually), with another set of Frostburns (really would have preferred the set version!) and then possibly the best drop of the Act with a Mal.
We picked back up after finishing the 20-hour set for the MFO warmup tourney. Imps and slingers were a pain for the next two areas because they run away, so patience was needed. The crew eventually made it through, with a nice drop of Nat’s helm in Arreat Plateau to accompany Deathspade and another Cleglaw’s sword.
Quinta picked up an eth Steelclash in the Crystalline Passage, and encountered some nastiness while rescuing Anya. As you can probably see, we had retreated and gone through to Anya so we can attempt to take them on from the other direction, which worked: View attachment 10316
She was “rewarded” with another Vidala’s Bow The chest in Drifter Cavern dropped Bonesnap, which is intriguing as an option – upped – to stay pure passivezon, but that is very unlikely. But it might be preferable to Fleshrender for boss fights in Hell depending on whether she gets shield upgrades.
Snapchit was a peach, with gloams (and, if I recall correctly, witches) mixed in. Another Naj’s circlet dropped somewhere along the way. The Ancient’s Way had the Shamans, which were surprisingly tough due to resurrecting carvers and being fast. And there were lots of them, so we had to draw the carvers out with tactical retreats throughout the level. It was smooth sailing after that (Ancients at p1), although we had gloams and witches again in WSK.
The Baal fight (at p3) took less than 10 minutes, with an early clone slowing things down a bit. But Fleshrender on switch was handy and it wasn’t too tough. The drop was pretty nice: View attachment 10317
Gheeds is 35 MF, which is nice, and Headstriker is interesting but not likely to see use in light of Fleshrender and Bonesnap (and higher stat requirements than both). And she’s now a Champion (as a reminder, I went SC but she still hasn’t died).
Next up were Pindle and Nihl, back up to p7. Meh. This quill rat boss was nasty, taking out the merc twice before I could whittle down the surrounding mobs, and nothing of note dropped, including from Nihl. We then tackled Cows on p1, with a major drop in addition to Angelic Sickle and Isenhart shield: View attachment 10318
I was initially really disappointed it wasn’t golden, but upon reflection, I ended being happy it was Aldur’s because I think they will be more helpful when she transitions from MF set up due to current gear, and particularly resists, limitations.
I’m planning to stick with MF set-up for Act 1, hoping to manage mostly p3 full clears (likely skipping Crypt and Mausoleum and direct-running Countess and Jails due to number of PIs). She cleared the Blood Moor and Den without problems and has tagged the Cold Plains WP, encountering her first PI boss of Hell (that Fleshrender switch sorted out) and getting a second Bonesnap. Assuming she makes it, she will then streamline approach considerably, and just quest through as directly as possible on p1.
I’m going back and forth about what to do if no gear upgrades happen: (a) go with cold rogue using Riphook with fleshrender as primary and stay pure passive or (b) switch to cold bowazon with Riphook. Loss of might under (a) will impact valk and Quinta’s damage, so we will likely end up with option (b).
Summary of current gear (and options for upgrades):
Code:
Head: Rockstopper (30/29/29 FR/CR/LR)
Body: Angelic set
Amulet: Vidala set
Gloves: Sanders set
Belt: Sigon set
Boots: Vidala set
Rings: Nagel (24 MF), Angelic
Weapon 1: Angelic
Shield 1: Milabrega set
Weapon 2: Fleshrender
Shield 2: Sigon set
MF: 188
Fire: 134/94/34
Cold: 124/84/24
Lightning: 77/37/-23
Poison: 85/45/-15
Merc:
Head: Nat’s Helm
Body: up’ed Sparking Mail
Weapon: up’ed eth Razortine
So, yeah, not much better than last update :\ Possible upgrades:
Code:
Aldur’s boots (44 fire resist, +50 life)
Bonesnap (+244% damage, resists)
Spineripper (ITD and life leech, but hard to imagine it beating Fleshrend
Bows: Riphook, Stormstrike (can be upped)
Polearms/spears: nope :(
Feedback/ideas are most welcome!
Quinta, the Level 74 Passivezon, and Waheed, the Level 74 Desert Might Merc; A1 H, Cold Plains WP; Total S/Us=77, Equipped=16
Yep, an A5 merc with headstriker would almost certainly be stronger. Thanks for raising that @jiansonz -- I tend to forget about the barb mercs, and this was a perfect example
Edit: he also has Plaguebearer, which about the same damage, no deadly strike (which I think caps at 95%, so effectively half the physical damage) or prevent monster heal; but it has 300 poison damage over 8 seconds (and small chance to cast low level poison nova), while also giving the merc maxed poison resist. I think I will test both out, or at least keep plaguebearer in the stash for PIs that aren't also poison immune.
The Mal is useless for this tourney, yes, but maybe not if I decide to continue playing her after she mats/dies.
HotBones (Golem and Bone Spear) has begun his trek through the Kurast ruins. Andariel fell to him quite some time ago, but since he had still found no S/U items, I decided to wait to report in. His first drop was Angelic Sickle at level 23 in the Far Oasis. That's a bit late for the first drop!!
Now, he has defeated Duriel. His method of attack is to place the Clay Golem in a good position to protect both him and his mercenary and then cast either amp damage or corpse explosion depending on the presence of corpses and the strength of the enemy. It worked real well against Duriel, so he will probably stick with that and ignore the long bow with 3 emerald chips.
Skills: Clay Golem 11; Golem Mastery 14; Summon Resist 2; Iron Golem 1; Blood Golem 1
Summary of current gear:
Code:
Head: Skull Cap with two topaz chips.
Body: Angelic Mantle
Amulet: none
Gloves: Superior Chain Gloves
Belt: Superior Belt
Boots: Superior Heavy Boots
Rings: Cathan's Seal and a ring with +1 to STR that Akara gave him
Weapon 1: Angelic Sickle
Shield 1: Civerb's Ward
Weapon 2: White Bone Wand (+1 corpse explosion, +1 amp damage, +2 Bone Wall)
Shield 2: White Zombie Head (+1 weakness, +2 Clay Golem)
MF: 18
Fire: 18
Cold: 20
Lightning: 0
Poison: 32
Merc:
Head: Berserker's Head Gear
Body: Dark Glow
Weapon: Razortine
Your big investment in Clay Golem suggest that it will be your main golem, and it will be VERY sturdy on all difficulties (base golem life takes a big leap up on every difficulty). It's also dirt cheap to recast, so it's really no big deal if it does die, as long as that doesn't mean you'll be jumped by the enemies. This implies that it's often better to recast it in the same spot where it is before it dies.
(Although with your Mastery development, there's really nothing that stops you from switching between different golems).
Since I didn't say anything about it in the rules, I suppose you are perfectly allowed to shop and gamble Iron Golem materials. The 'restricted socketables' rule does apply, though, so no fancy Malice golems, etc.
Clay Golem can't kill anything on its own past the first act. Beside Bone Spear and similar skills, you have some options:
- Merc (with good gear, this goes a long way, since the golem takes a lot of heat off of the merc)
- Necro himself. Crushing Blow and Open Wounds highly recommended. Unless you have a Blessed Aim merc (or to a certain extent, the Inner Sight from an Act I merc might cut it), Ignore Target's Defense is almost a must, or you'll have major problems hitting things in the late game.
- Iron Maiden (only effective against certain enemies, but this does include all the act bosses). Iron Golem + Amp does more damage against enemies with decent physical resistance, but the other golems are far easier to recast in a dangerous fight, hence the IM recommendation.
BTW: Bone Spear, but no points in it yet? Saving that for later?
For the late game, I recommend Dim Vision for crowd control (against archers, Gloams and such).
Golem is a great tank, but you only have one, and archers and such tend to run around and threaten from several directions at once. You need a bunch of levels in it for it to become user friendly, both for the radius and for the duration (it's cut to 1/4 in Hell).
Thanks for the ideas! You made no specific mention of Fire Golem. I have never used it and was considering using it with this character. The description of Fire Golem implies that it can be used as an offensive weapon (fire splash on death?) Should I try this or would bone spear be better? I have used bone spear many times and find that it takes a lot of skill points to keep it effective. My guess is that Fire Golem has a similar problem, but the synergies are already being set up (clay, mastery, iron, blood and summon resist)
Fire Golem is almost as great a tank as Clay Golem (or better, if both are at low levels, however your hefty CG investment will make your Clay Golem have lots of life).
When you first get access to the Fire Golem at level 30, it will dish out some good damage for that stage of the game, but in the late game, it will never outperform a reasonably-decked-out merc even if you max the skill. And if you start pumping the skill, the mana cost goes through the roof.
In fact, the best reason for pumping Fire Golem would be to make more damaging Iron Golems (synergy).
(Yes, a Fire Golem does explode upon death (for 100 fire and 100 physical damage, I think) so I suppose it would work to spam it as super expensive solution to kill a PI + MI boss. But if you have a couple of levels in the skill, it's probably better to just let the golem keep doing its fire punches.)
For a Necro that wants just a sturdy tank with a modest skill investement (say, 1 point in each golem, 1-few points Summon Resist and about 10 Golem Mastery), Fire Golem gets the most life and it's the golem I use the most in the late game (but Clay is always there if I start to get low on mana in a sticky situation).
Against enemies that often are passive (mummies, spiders, etc.) the Holy Fire aura of the Fire Golem will 'wake up and aggro' those enemies. This can be both good and bad, depending on situation. If you've ever played with a Holy Freeze merc, you know what I mean.
I haven't used Bone Spear seriously since v1.09 (when it had no synergies) but I think you have already invested too much in the golems to make Bone Spear really powerful. Plus, a Bone Spear specialist would want a White runeworded wand, which isn't available in this tourney.
I suggest not thinking too much more about any P&B spells except CE since you can't make a White RW in this tournament. I've guardianed a golemancer twice (I think, maybe there were three) and it was really fun. One time I maxed out Confusion and the other time I maxed DV. CE was great for both in hell difficulty. I like the Iron Golem best but you'll bang your head on your keyboard when it poofs since likely any S/U with CB and/or OW will be rare and those are the best items for an IG. So in your case I'd stick with Clay, and not look back. They will have incredible amounts of life, and if you choose a thorns desert merc and cast Amp on the enemies, you'll stomp nearly everything in short order. I know Jiansonz likes to "stay busy" by helping with his character in personally attacking enemies, but with necros I like to be more of a hands off kind of player and manipulate the battlefield with curses instead. You can invest a couple of points into Revive if you get that far, as points are not really that scarce with a golemancer. They are very helpful against the ancients and act bosses. I'll be back off my D2 hiatus soon to finish up my characters for better or worse and will continue to check in on your progress Wolron! You have wonderful persistence!
I know Jiansonz likes to "stay busy" by helping with his character in personally attacking enemies, but with necros I like to be more of a hands off kind of player and manipulate the battlefield with curses instead.
Not sure where you get this from - I usually like to play Necros the same way you do.
(But just because - I'm tempted to try a meleemancer here. Will have to wait until at least one of my two characters are finished, though...)
Act IV Nightmare was comfortable for Mirex. Just one moment was a bit hairy, when I ran between DeSeis' minions and a wall. Made that just in time before they reached me.
Oh, and I forgot to tell you about something I discovered back in Act III: the faintest sound in the game (of those I have heard, at least). Even more quiet than the subtle spider- or vampire "I exist" sounds:
When you loot a Hollow Log and it turns out to be empty.
Hellforge wasn't better - a measly Dol rune. OTOH, I found an Io in Chaos Sanctuary. This was my third, so now I've cubed a Lum rune (people, remember to keep a few certain low-level gems, in this case a flawed topaz).
Jeebers, how he has spewed out flames here. It almost looks I am using Blaze!
Cathan's Sigil (City of the Damned)
[Highlight]Duriel's Shell[/Highlight] (River of Flame) Cathan's Seal #3 (Hephasto)
[Highlight]Manald Heal[/Highlight] (Chaos Sanctuary)
First time I can remember that I haven't reached level 67 after this act.
[Highlight]Destroyer Mirex the FoH/Conviction Paladin and Emilio the Holy Freeze guard, level 66, 74 S/U items found, NM Bloody Foothills next[/Highlight]
HotBones (Golem and Bone Spear) has killed Mephisto on P8 (mistake). On P8 the drop was five rare items, but no set or unique. Earlier in Kurast, the Sandar's Riprap boots dropped and that was the only good S/U in ACT iii.
Skills: Clay Golem 11; Golem Mastery 14; Summon Resist 2; Iron Golem 1; Blood Golem 1; Teeth 1; Corpse Explosion 1; Bone Spear 1.
Summary of current gear:
Code:
Head: Skull Cap with two topaz chips.
Body: Angelic Mantle
Amulet: none
Gloves: Superior Chain Gloves
Belt: Superior Belt
Boots: Sandar's Riprap
Rings: Angelic Halo and Cathan's seal
Weapon 1: Angelic Sickle
Shield 1: Civerb's Ward
Weapon 2: White Bone Wand (+1 corpse explosion, +1 amp damage, +2 Bone Wall)
Shield 2: Crude Zombie Head (+1 Bone Spear)
MF: 68
Fire: 18
Cold: 20
Lightning: 0
Poison: 32
Merc:
Head: Berserker's Head Gear
Body: Dark Glow
Weapon: Razortine
Referring to my Mephisto kill: I did it on P8 and got a lousy drop of five rare items. Would it have been better to use P1? My experience is that P1 gives more S/U items. Is it just my perception or is it actuallly better to kill the act bosses on P1?
It's just a perception. The so called nodrop chance is smaller on higher /p settings. You wouldn't want a single pile of gold from /p1 Meph would you? Hehe. While its a very rare sight and I think only if it's not quest kill it still happens.
Referring to my Mephisto kill: I did it on P8 and got a lousy drop of five rare items. Would it have been better to use P1? My experience is that P1 gives more S/U items. Is it just my perception or is it actuallly better to kill the act bosses on P1?
Did you check if any of those rares was a failed unique? If it was, you had luck with your quality roll but not with the item type roll within the treasure class and/or which treasure classes were picked from.
Failed uniques have 3x normal durability (which means you can't see it on bows/crossbows or throwing weapons).
They can 'fail' for three different reasons:
- No unique of that item type exists in the game. Very common for class-specific item types, e.g. Antlers and such, and for throwing weapons.
- The monster that dropped the item is of a lower level than the qlvl of the unique. Example: Normal Andariel can drop Skull Caps but not Tarnhelm because Tarnhelm has qlvl 20 and Andariel is only level 12.
- That particular unique has already dropped in the current game session. (This is why it may be a good idea in tourneys like this one to (at least early on) end a gaming session as soon as practically possible after finding a Nagelring, if you want one more.)
Failed set items show up as magical (blue) items with double durability. This is even more common than failed uniques because there are much fewer item types that have a set version.
All items (unless they are gold, gems or runes) in an act boss quest kill (the first kill, which is ALL of the act boss kills we do in single-pass tourneys) are forced to try to beat least rare, so all blue items we see in act boss quest kills are failed set items.
And no, it's just perception. It's always better to ensure a full drop, six items. I've seen as few as four (maybe even three) on quest kills. That's always a bummer.
Did you check if any of those rares was a failed unique? If it was, you had luck with your quality roll but not with the item type roll within the treasure class and/or which treasure classes were picked from.
Failed uniques have 3x normal durability (which means you can't see it on bows/crossbows or throwing weapons).
Failed set items show up as magical (blue) items with double durability. This is even more common than failed uniques because there are much fewer item types that have a set version.
All items (unless they are gold, gems or runes) in an act boss quest kill (the first kill, which is ALL of the act boss kills we do in single-pass tourneys) are forced to try to beat least rare, so all blue items we see in act boss quest kills are failed set items.
I'm glad I asked! This is extremely interesting. Now I have to try to remember this for the Diablo drop so I can observe it play out. Of course, I am in the habit of not doing P8 for Diablo. If I read your post correctly, then on P1 I may get fewer than 6 items, but the quality of the items would not be lower.
I guess I should have read your last post before going after Diablo. You're right, P3 would have been minimally more difficult. Well, I killed him on P1 and the drop was:
MageFist unique gloves (gives another skill point in corpse explosion and Fire Golem)
Polearm and Scythe blue items with double the durability (I guess these were failed set items)
Great Helm and Broad sword rare items with exactly what I would have expected for durability (I guess these were just rare items)
flawed emerald
So, I did get 6 items (counting the gem). Is the gem supposed to count in the number of items?
HotBones (Golem and Bone Spear) has killed Diablo on P1 (mistake). The drop included MageFist Unique Light Gauntlets. Two Cathan's seals were found earlier in Act IV, but he already had one of those. DimOak's Hew was also found and the mercenary switched from the Razortine and gave Razortine to HotBones.
Skills: Clay Golem 11; Golem Mastery 14; Summon Resist 2; Iron Golem 1; Blood Golem 1; Teeth 1; Corpse Explosion 1; Bone Spear 4.
Summary of current gear:
Code:
Head: Skull Cap with perfect Topaz and Flawless Topaz.
Body: Angelic Mantle
Amulet: none
Gloves: Magefist Unique Gauntlets
Belt: Superior Belt
Boots: Sandar's Riprap
Rings: Angelic Halo and Cathan's seal
Weapon 1: Angelic Sickle
Shield 1: Civerb's Ward
Weapon 2: Razortine
MF: 94
Fire: 68
Cold: 33
Lightning: 0
Poison: 41
Merc:
Head: Berserker's Head Gear
Body: Dark Glow
Weapon: DimOak's Hew
Possible upgrades:
[CODE]
Isenhart's Case and another Angelic Mantle and two more Cathan's Seals
Yes. Like regular bosses, act bosses can drop 'misc_good' items instead of weapons and armors. 'misc_good' item are rings, amulets, gems, runes and jewels.
Andariel has a special gem drop in addition to the main drop, but I am sure already knew that.
I think Baal has seven drops, but that one is forced to be a gold pile. Not quite sure about this one.
On non-quest drops, I think one of Duriel's drops is always a Scroll of Town Portal (because if you didn't bring any such scrolls, you are stuck there without Tyrael's portal)
On Hell difficulty, Duriel can drop Twisted Essense of Suffering (or whatever it's called). Since those are useless in Single Player, that just means fewer potentially good drops.
Speaking of failed Tarnhelms, here is one I got from a container (Dead Body) in Tristram.
Compare durability with one in Charsi's shop window:
HotBones (Golem and Bone Spear) has killed Baal and moved on to Nightmare. Eight items have dropped in Act 5. Since HotBones has gone up 13 levels in Act 5, those 8 items may not seem so good. However, one of them finished the Angelic set. Yes! Hotbones has a full set of four items: Angelic Sickle, Mantle, Halo and Wings. The added magic find gives him a total of 178 MF! Hopefully, that means more MF found in the future.
Skills: Clay Golem 11; Golem Mastery 14; Summon Resist 2; Iron Golem 1; Blood Golem 1; Teeth 1; Corpse Explosion 1; Bone Spear 19
Summary of current gear:
Code:
Head: Skull Cap with perfect Topaz and Flawless Topaz.
Body: Angelic Mantle
Amulet: Angelic Wings
Gloves: Magefist Unique Gauntlets
Belt: Superior Belt
Boots: Sandar's Riprap
Rings: Angelic Halo and Cathan's seal
Weapon 1: Angelic Sickle
Shield 1: Milabega's Orb
Weapon 2: Storm Strike
MF: 178
Fire: 45
Cold: 36
Lightning: -5
Poison: 38
Merc:
Head: Berserker's Head Gear
Body: Dark Glow
Weapon: DimOak's Hew
Other S/U items:
[CODE]
Civerb's Ward
Isenhart's Case
Isenhart's Cases
Angelic Mantle
Angelic Sickle
Cathan's Seal
Cathan's Seal
Mage Fist
Milabrega's Orb
Razortine
Swordback Hold
Having even a few skills easily available makes a difference, so I hope you're able to figure out a way that hotkeys can work for you.
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