The Hole - Mini Mafia game

Would you be willing to share how you can be "thoroughly convinced" please?



It's more of an old joke around the forum mafia games we folk have here.

I've put more than enough evidence out there to make my case. Either go back and re-read and agree or disgree, I already know where you stand though so I doubt your opinion will change one way or the other.


@gory here is another funny outcome: I know 100% for a fact that I am a vanilla town. I have no idea Drixx role, but if I had to guess I'd say town. And yet, no extra votes get placed on you. If you were town you think the mafia would take the evidence that I and Drixx have presented, with us a pretty good covers (I.E. if you are town than drixx and I are in the crosshairs) and still no one votes for you.

Gory needs to be lynched. I am sorry, if I was mafia I wouldn't be making these agressive plays with ZERO VOTES on me. And if Drixx and I were both mafia you can be certain we wouldnt be clumping ourselves together like this.

If we want to focus on someone under the radar, put some focus on TC who's done classic "scum knowledge" posts like "I dont think gory is scum because the only way he makes the move he makes is if he is town or bpc and him are scum".
 
I'd like to break us into two groups at this point, but of course no one is going to take my word for it because they would need to trust me as town and clearly some dont.

Gory
BPC
Bad Ash
Drixx

TC
CG
CDM
Kestegs

I would love to make a bold guaruntee (eat my hat post if you will) that our scum are in one of those two groups. If you all are so convinced gory is town, i'd support a lynch in group B, but CDM probably wouldn't be my first choice
 
And yet you could make it 3 votes on one that you've said this about:

My vote was on him prior to being on you, ergo I could not have made it 3 votes for him. If a viable train goes for gory, I will be happy to post the locking vote. I still lean more scum than town on my read of him. I am not sure, because I don't have a role to know for sure and the person who does (if we have one) hasn't spoken up if he knows ... but I'd rank my want to lynch scale roughly as follows: BPC -> Gory -> Lurker

Since you showed up and made a reasonably sound post in your defense, I'll move to BPC. I'd like to see you play more actively from here out. Since you are new, you should probably try and establish how you play so people know how to read you anyway.

Unvote: Crawlingdeadman
Vote: Bipolar Chemist

BTW: Off-topic - can you pm me about getting hamachi working for some more idiots of hardcore fun?
 
I've put more than enough evidence out there to make my case. Either go back and re-read and agree or disgree, I already know where you stand though so I doubt your opinion will change one way or the other.


@gory here is another funny outcome: I know 100% for a fact that I am a vanilla town. I have no idea Drixx role, but if I had to guess I'd say town. And yet, no extra votes get placed on you. If you were town you think the mafia would take the evidence that I and Drixx have presented, with us a pretty good covers (I.E. if you are town than drixx and I are in the crosshairs) and still no one votes for you.

Gory needs to be lynched. I am sorry, if I was mafia I wouldn't be making these agressive plays with ZERO VOTES on me. And if Drixx and I were both mafia you can be certain we wouldnt be clumping ourselves together like this.

If we want to focus on someone under the radar, put some focus on TC who's done classic "scum knowledge" posts like "I dont think gory is scum because the only way he makes the move he makes is if he is town or bpc and him are scum".

I'd like to break us into two groups at this point, but of course no one is going to take my word for it because they would need to trust me as town and clearly some dont.

Gory
BPC
Bad Ash
Drixx

TC
CG
CDM
Kestegs

I would love to make a bold guaruntee (eat my hat post if you will) that our scum are in one of those two groups. If you all are so convinced gory is town, i'd support a lynch in group B, but CDM probably wouldn't be my first choice

Your first post is a very compelling argument for lynching Goryani. It's actually a very logical series of observations that add up to a high probability that Goryani is scum. I suppose it could be a long con on your part too, but it seems more likely that your argument against him is pretty solid. I'd like to see how TC and others read it, but if it seems as solid to them, I suspect we should lynch Gory today.

I'd like to see everyone comment on it. Either you agree with BA's thought process or you can find a logical fault. If you can't point out where his logic fails, then you should probably be voting for Goryani. I don't trust my own judgment enough to declare that his logic is flawless, but if a couple of the better players read it and come to the same conclusion as me, that will pretty much seal the deal as far as Gory goes, imo.

But then we have your second post I quoted, where you suggest the mafia is in one of the two groups and you put gory in a group with you and I and BPC. I can only conclude that you think BPC and Gory are the mafia and you put me and you in there because you think folks will see us as town?

The second post seems like it will distract from the first, which I thought was an outstanding display of an exercise in logical scumhunting. Whether you are scum or town, BA, that was a really good post.
 
2nd post is a continuation of my wall of text:

Player reads
1. Drixx - The biggest strike against Drixx is his unspoken approval of BA. It's one thing to agree with someone but it's quite another to act like you just know BA shouldn't be scumhunted. BA's vote at the end of D1 is everything Drixx accused me of and Drixx stays silent. BA has a very large number of posts for someone not talking about anyone but me (hiding in plain sight) and Drixx stays silent. I'll say this in support: Drixx's vote change at the end of D1 still kept someone at lock-1. It wasn't a situation of making it harder to obtain a lynch.

2. Caluin Graye - I think he's interacted with more players D2 than anyone else. He may be the only player besides myself to scumhunt BA. He proposed a log jam solution and not a bad one. I would vote CDM at the end of the day to get a lynch but I'd rather lynch BA.

3. BipolarChemist - I'm surprised no one has asked me what I think of BPC now that BPC ended up doing what I called him townie for not doing. I'm surprised no one has used that as a reason to call BPC scummy. He's a tough read but I think he does that intentionally. CG made a very good point about how BPC claimed to read the entire thread in ~2min between posts. Despite all that, I still feel BPC is townie. He still voted for a lurker at a time when he could have voted me. That vote felt more like learning about BA than avoiding a lynch.

4. crawlingdeadman - I don't remember a thing he's done today. He called BPC scummy a couple times but didn't place a vote until BPC had several votes already. So much material in the thread and he's silent about it all.

5. kestegs - I liked the D1 aggressiveness. I don't like the D2 play near as much. The "if BPC is scum then Gory is scum and if Gory is scum then BPC is scum" talk in 143 doesn't sit well with me. Smells a lot like lynching for information. Has a vote on BPC, said he'd switch to Gory, and calls Drixx scummy. No mention of BA at all.

7. Bad Ash - Most likely scum, IMO. Refusal to vote someone he labeled as scum and concocted some elaborate "I need an insurance policy" as the reason. No insurance policy needed unless he knew he wasn't going to vote for BipolarChemist. BA's insurance policy is the exact opposite of what I called townie behavior in #131. BA's play is so unlike him. Other than 1 post to kestegs, his posts have been either defensive or all-encompassing. Post 180 is closer to what I expect from BA but I wonder why it took so long to arrive.

8. ThunderCat - D1 he voted me. D2 he defended me. TC's stated reason isn't quite correct. I unvoted BPC well before I was at risk of a lynch. Maybe he meant the situation instead of my unvote.

9. Goryani - That's me!
 
I'm not sure your post was all that helpful Gory. Either Both BA and I are mafia, one of us is mafia, or neither of us is mafia. I mean ... that's not exactly a revelation. You spent an awful lot of time to state the obvious only to end by asking us to respond to the obvious (while your vote stays where it is and we have three people at 2 votes each and the day quietly slips away... again).

The three scenarios aren't meant to be a revelation. I'm looking at everyone's behavior to see which scenarios fit and which scenarios don't fit.

Example:

kestegs actions of keeping a vote on BPC, saying he would vote drixx and not mentioning BA is consistent with mafia in scenario 2 or 3. If scenario 3, then BA looks to be the partner.

CGs actions of supporting Gory, voting Drixx and scumhunting BA is consistent with mafia in scenario 2 but not so much scenario 3.

CG and TC voting together make it unlikely they are mafia partners in scenario 2. One may be scum but I don't think both are.
 
Worrying about receiving a scum tag will get you a scum tag.

I never worry about it and usually get it at some point anyway (except when Kestegs kills me night one lol).

As for me agreeing with BA or not having any suspicion of BA, the only agreement I have with BA is the explicit agreement I posted about his thought process. He has tried to connect himself to me (which could mean he thinks I'm a townie and he's a townie so he's trying to get a group of likely townies formed to make scumhunting easier, or it could mean that he's a scum and hoping to get some townie cred by tying himself to me and then me being nightkilled or lynched and showing up townie, or he could have some other motive I'm not thinking of) and others have tried to connect him to me, but I haven't tried to connect him to me or me to him.

I don't have a solid read on him. I can read his posts and assume he's 100% a townie, and the posts make sense, and I can read and assume he's 100% scum and the posts make sense. In this case, I really can't say until he posts more and I can evaluate.
 
4. crawlingdeadman - I don't remember a thing he's done today. He called BPC scummy a couple times but didn't place a vote until BPC had several votes already. So much material in the thread and he's silent about it all.
Check again. Two votes for you were the first of D2 then I voted for BPC. In the same post I said this of you:
I'd jump on the Gory train if this situation weren't so like last game in which Gory was posting and trying to help, but we lynched him anyway and he turned out town.

Now, I'm not so sure. Everyone seems to read more into your posts than I. I just see loads of text that seems to me to be town, but what do I know.

I fail at reading walls of text and coming away with anything other than blurry vision. I read everything (more than once usually) and I'm trying to read them as scum then as town as I believe you suggested. I come away with impressions like drixx:
I don't have a solid read on him. I can read his posts and assume he's 100% a townie, and the posts make sense, and I can read and assume he's 100% scum and the posts make sense. In this case, I really can't say until he posts more and I can evaluate.

Worrying about receiving a scum tag will get you a scum tag.
That's what he said:
Trying to actively avoid being read as scum is a scum behaviour.
As I said the first time; what can I say other than that I'm still learning the ropes. Is it better to go LAMIST or try to avoid scum tags? Isn't everyone trying to do both without seeming to do both? You want people to believe you're town and not scum. How is one to do so without stumbling over an unwritten rule?
 
Is it option 1?

That's a question I've been asking myself since near the beginning of the day. I came up with a plan to test it.

If Drixx and BA were a scum team, that would mean all other players would be town. Townies scumhunt townies as a side effect of trying to find mafia. If it looked like townies were scumhunting townies then that would indicate option 1 is possible. If, howerver, there appeared to be a lack of such scumhunting, that would indicate option 1 is not likely. To me, it looks like a lack of scumhunting among players not named Drixx, BA or Gory. There are some, but not as much as I would think if they were all townie.

Therefore, I think option 1 is not as likely as options 2 or 3.

And to reply to an earlier question/accusation: Yes, I chose not to do as much scumhunting as I normally do. I certainly limited my targets. I wanted to see which of anyone not Drixx/BA would interact with anyone else not Drixx/BA.
 
Actually I've had little to no interaction with BA, CDM, or gwaihir. I haven't found reason to be suspicious of BA, and so I haven't questioned him directly. Do you really think if we were the mafia team that we would completely ignore each other? Of course me saying that is complete wifom now. But one of my major rules when playing as mafia is to never ignore your team.
 
I'd like to see everyone comment on it.

An obvious, generic retort: If all the mafia have already voted for a player, no mafia is left to add additional pressure. However, at the moment I don't think that applies here.

other generic retorts:
Mafia are new and not quite sure how to act in this situation. Possible.
Mafia know Gory is town and don't want to run the wrath of me exposing them if I'm lynched (which has happened every time I'm lynched as town). LAMIST!
Mafia think an early lynch/lock is bad and want to wait for later. A scummy action is oft considered less scummy if it's done at the end of a day trying to secure a lynch.

Option 2 spells out what I think mafia would be doing. They should be splitting votes between 2 of Drixx/BA/Gory if both Drixx/BA are town. If one is mafia then maybe split votes between Drixx/BA/Gory/BPC. If 2 mafia vote the same townie, make sure one votes early and one votes late (just to secure a lynch).

Either you agree with BA's thought process or you can find a logical fault. If you can't point out where his logic fails, then you should probably be voting for Goryani. I don't trust my own judgment enough to declare that his logic is flawless, but if a couple of the better players read it and come to the same conclusion as me, that will pretty much seal the deal as far as Gory goes, imo.

By my count, you and BPC have the same number of votes as me. I supposed had is the correct tense. Why are you or him not subject to the same thought process?
 
Vote tally:

Goryani (1): Bad Ash
BipolarChemist (3): crawlingdeadman, kestegs, Drixx
Drixx (2): ThunderCat, BipolarChemist
crawlingdeadman (1): Caluin Graye

Day ends in 30 minutes.
 
Check again. Two votes for you were the first of D2 then I voted for BPC. In the same post I said this of you:

I was referring to your D1 vote of BPC, not your D2 vote. On D1, you called BPC scummy several times but didn't vote until he had several votes already.

As I said the first time; what can I say other than that I'm still learning the ropes. Is it better to go LAMIST or try to avoid scum tags? Isn't everyone trying to do both without seeming to do both? You want people to believe you're town and not scum. How is one to do so without stumbling over an unwritten rule?

I never try to avoid scum tags. If someone isn't calling me scummy then I'm not scumhunting enough.

I LAMIST quite often. Personally, I see nothing wrong with how most players act when they are accused of LAMIST. Everyone townie knows they are townie and should act like it.
 
I guess a BPC lynch may reveal info on gory.


Unvote: Goryani
Vote: BiPolarChemist

not sure thats correct spelling will double check
 
The formatting, capitalization and spelling is not important in this game, so long as two things are true: I can put 'vote:' into the search filter and find them, and it takes me less than half a second to determine who you're voting for. Unvotes must come before revotes.

Duly noted.
 
Okie dokes. Peace out y'all! I don't see me getting out of this one!


Good luck townies, it's 4 vs. 2 now.
 
Am I crazy for thinking a no-lynch is the best course of action right now?

Not voting BPC (again).
 
Night 2

----------------

Final Vote tally:
Goryani (0):
BipolarChemist (4): crawlingdeadman, kestegs, Drixx, Bad Ash
Drixx (2): ThunderCat, BipolarChemist
crawlingdeadman (1): Caluin Graye

-----------------

Surrounding the body lying in a pool of blood in the recreation room, the group was in a state of collective shock. Who could be so heartless?

“Gwaihir must have not been able to be heard because of the music, and it is clear he tried to put up a fight” a tearful Sarah stated, kneeling over the body, covering Gwaihir with a blanket.

“He was a good guy.” She stated with great sadness in her voice. She suspected that Gwaihir liked her a lot as she was not oblivious to the looks he gave her, even if he never said anything to her. A part of her wished she had said something to him before.

Her sadness turned to anger. Looking at the group with rage, ”We will find who is responsible for this. And we will make them pay.”

“And where is that damned guy with the key? It has been days and he did not show up. We have barely any supplies left”. This struck home to all and some looked at the manhole in the ceiling in expectancy.


No one has been lynched.

It is now Night 2. Day 3 will resume in 24 hours.
 
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Day 3

He wondered if he was not the only one thinking about the events since they got here. He lay in bed in total darkness hoping the others were doing the same. Goryani looked at his phone. Apart from the screen showing ten past two, it also registered no signal, unsurprising considering their location.

“The killer is among us. The question is why?” he pondered to himself aloud. He did not know the answer to that. What he did know that it was imperative that they leave this place and alert the authorities before it is too late. The reason the man with the key did not come is unknown as well, but it greatly worried him, perhaps more so than others. He had a strong suspicion that they were all lured in here as part of a devious plan and that their supposed saviour had no intention of coming. If they would not be picked off by the killer, they would starve to death. It was a sickening thought but one that had the feeling of being ominously prophetic.

Getting up from the bed he rubbed his face. Does this keybearer and our killer have any connection?
He was going to examine the manhole. Maybe there was a way of opening the door. Perhaps not the best of time to do this but he certainly knew that he could not trust anyone in this place and the less of them know of his whereabouts the better.

Unlocking and stepping out of his room, Goryani looked around the corridor. Not a sign of anyone else. Still cautious he walked over to the recreation room and stood at the ladder leading up to the entrance to the bunker. Looking up, it was certainly a steep climb measuring over fifteen feet but heights were never of any trouble to him.


Gripping the edges of the ladder, he climbed one step at a time, each step producing an echo across the dead quiet room. The ladder creaked slightly under the weight put on it but it was otherwise stable.

Upon reaching the third-last rung, the manhole was close enough to examine. The door was made of steel at least five inches thick, so there was no way to force it open by sheer force. He tried anyway with one hand but it would not budge. He doubted that even with ten pairs of hands a different outcome could be reached. A keyhole was visible just to the left of the door and upon closer examination small but clear scratches were visible around the keyhole. Running his fingers over the scratches, he noticed that they were made recently. He had a horrifying thought for a second that he immediately pushed to the back of his mind. It could not be true, he reasoned. For if it is…

Slowly climbing down from the ladder and still in deep thought at the viciousness of the monster responsible for their captivity and the level of cunning this beast could be capable of, Goryani climbed down the ladder and made his way back to his room.

Upon reaching the room, he stopped before he entered. Something looked wrong but he could not point his finger on it. Standing outside his room staring at nothing but darkness from inside for a few minutes, he tried to figure out what it was, he eventually decided that it was his lack of sleep and overactive imagination.


Upon entering his dark abode, he immediately realised what his subconscious was trying to tell him. He had closed the door before he went out. It was ajar when he came back. His blood went cold when he realised within the split second before the crowbar cracked his skull what exactly the scratches that he saw on the manhole meant.


Goryani has been killed. He was Vanilla Town.

It is Day 3 for the next 48 hours. With 7 players alive, it takes 4 votes to lynch and lock the lynch.
 
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