Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

[Kestegs]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

That's an interesting roll, Ankeli. Reminds me of a role from another game, but I can't quite remember what it was or what game it was.

A vigi that had a permanent kill ability seems unlikely to me, I would expect SK to be more likely if he wasn't mafia.

 

[Ankeli1]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

A dead thread is a dead thread. Let's talk about the dream then. What possible benefit can the mafia get from choosing a dream that blocks everything? I'm still assuming they choose their dreams, as per RE's post:

"2) Dreams: Unique to this game the mafia have the dreaming god ability, each night (Including the pregame night) they can pick an ability, dreams effect ethier the next night or day from when they're used. You will not be aware of it's effects until they happen, but the story may hint at whats going to happen."

 

[coju]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

From my understanding, whenever they chose a dream, they didn't knowexactly what they were getting. Just a name: like, "silent night" or, "solar eclipse. "
If you look at your role and the rolls revealed, they are not named normal: paladin and necromage(assuming this isn't a regular role).

 

[Kestegs]

The part about them not knowing the effects is the key to your question I think.

I think if they got to know the effects beforehand it would probably be op.

 

[Sathoris]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

If the mafia know what the dreams do then having town night talk on the first night won't help us at all. Better to get that dream out of the way when it's the least usefull to us. And we all get blocked the night after Goryani announced there is a cop and certain people were popular choices. And AnkeliBesides a global roleblock could distract the town and might pursuade the PR's to change targets. The fliside is a global roleblock only helps the town. Another chance of gaining information through talking and lynching while the mafia haven't made another kill. But again maybe they wanted this effect out of the way too. Which implies there's only a limited number of dream choices available.

Regardless, discussing this won't help us at all untill we have definite proof of some sort of the other. I still don't trust Ankeli after aparently revealing his entire role.. But I'm willing to give him the benefit and trust his judgement of revealing the structure of his roles. Kestegs position on the train on Autti eases my mind a bit. Which leaves Val

Vote: Valhauros

Nothing town about his play all game.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Because they were 'oh so willing' to give up their roles. I crossed them off the list of targets pretty fast.

My comment was meant to be sarcastic, but yeah your reasoning definately makes sense.

If I had to guess, maybe we get info from anyone who would die tonight? My question is all of the things so far seem to be helping town - night talk, global role block, possibly more info from those who die. Are the mafia getting something out of this that we don't see, or are they just choosing what benefit the town receives?

Role reveal of those who die at night probably makes the most sense since we normally wouldn't receive that information. I guess we won't know until the next day phase though obviously. Since mafia are in control of choosing the dream, I don't see how the only benefits are too the town, that doesn't make sense to me, even if they didn't know what they were choosing, either that or they are choosing the ones that help the town early on and saving the better ones for them for later in the game?

Now, the list of people who I'd peg suspicious based on their actions during the last 2 days, and the lynch behaviour on Autti, in no order: Val, Korialstraz, Loz, Ba. I'm sort of excluding Sathoris for being Sathoris, which might end up biting me in the butt but whatever.

I might as well come entirely out with my role now, since I doubt I'll be around much longer. I am the Necromage. Every night I get the powers of the deceased (day and night) as a one shot ability if they were permanent on their original user. If they had an x-shot ability, I get the ability but with no charges. So for example after the night when Asrrin and Solar Ice died, I got a 1 time night kill ability, and a 1 time bus driver ability. I may only use one power per night.

Last night I tried to kill Korialstraz, trusting the doctor would attempt to save me, but alas I was blocked. I didn't end up using the charge, so I'm still good for a kill / busdriver switch or a framing (Autti's role). The framing is obviously useless, and the busdriver I was going to use to save myself. If the doc protects me tonight, I can be around for 2 more day phases.

So, back on the suspects. Even though I tried to kill Korialstraz, I feel stronger about BA. If it weren't for his "kill me now" comment at the end of the last day phase, I would've attempted to NK him. I can still try to NK Korialstraz over the next night phase (unless you come up with something smarter), and lay my vote on BA.

I'm not so certain we should exclude Sath yet, one of his last posts (#557) in the previous day phase was saying how everyone is focused on lynching either Flubb, Korial, or Autti and that his top three suspects were kegs, ankeli, and Val, and since he was short on time if we didn't have the 12 hour extension (which we did, and I thought was pretty clear from RE's post), that he was only going to post regarding our current targets. Afterwards he never went back to post regarding why Ank, kegs, and Val topped his list. I'm very interested in hearing why he thought those people were scum before we let him off the hook. So in the interest of hearing what he has to say:

Vote: Sathoris

Moving on to Ankeli's role, I actually find it pretty neat, its definately a very interesting role mechanic. Not to try and cause any confusion about this, but if everyone's ability last night was blocked then that most likely means that the doc can target you again (and probably will at this point unless information comes up) but the mafia most likely knows that you are a likely save tonight so doesn't that create quite an interesting predicament? Regarding your one shot night kill, I agree that you should attempt to use it again tonight, I'm not sure if its best for you to use your best judgement or for the town to come to a concensus on who you should use it on since those who are "town" i.e. mafia will try to sway your decision throughout the course of the day.

Any reason to believe he was vigi and not SK? Both seems equally likely to me.

A vigi that had a permanent kill ability seems unlikely to me, I would expect SK to be more likely if he wasn't mafia.

Alright question for you guys then since I've only played in 2 games so far, how likely is it that the SK isn't bulletproof (night kill immune)?

The part about them not knowing the effects is the key to your question I think.

I think if they got to know the effects beforehand it would probably be op.

Knowing exact effects sounds like it would be definately overpower, but I would think they have some kind of hint rather then just a two word description. Now that we've had our daily discussion of how the mafia chooses a dream, it doesn't really help us find the people in control of it, which should be the focus of our discussion here.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Apparently Sath got his post in before I finished writting up my responses. I'm still interested in hearing his original reasoning from yesterday why those three people topped his list. Also his reasoning to not pursue Ank or kegs anymore is obviously because they seem more like town today then they did yesterday which would make it more dangerous for him to persue if he was mafia. I also find Val very suspicious considering his very late vote in the previous day, even though his reasoning was his linking style. Maybe you can elaborate on your "nothing town about his play all game" would be helpful in persuading me to change my vote to him.

 

[Sathoris]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

I have a tendency of not following up on stuff I post in here Pyro. Secondly I don't post gathered information or leads on players unless I truly want to lynch them asap. No point in brandishing your case and then not persecuting, giving him time to change and defend. And I've already mentioned some points throughout my posts.

And nothing town about him is self explanatory. He hasn't scumhunted, his votes are useless, he's lurking. If you don't act in a way that supports the town then you're motives are anti-town.

 

[Kestegs]

I don't think it is standard for the sk to be nk immune, but I'm not real sure.

I think sath is acting fairly normal, although I do find it odd that he had such a different scum list than everyone else yesterday. Although upon further reflection I think that makes him seem more town in my book.

 

[Goryani]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Rlyeh's "Autti has been lynched he was Dark Psion (Tailor/Framer), Anti-town":
What exactly is a Dark Psion? I get that it's just the flavor, but should we assume his alignment against town is because of him being mafia, or him being part of the cult? Is there any way for us to know the difference from the lynch results? As in, if Autti was a cult member, When we lynch a mafia member, we'll know he's Mafia? Either way, we should check who vouched in favor of Autti.

Why do you think we are facing mafia and a separate cult?

Alright question for you guys then since I've only played in 2 games so far, how likely is it that the SK isn't bulletproof (night kill immune)?

Bulletproof SK is pretty rare. I can't remember one outside of a CG modded game.

 

[Sathoris]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Why do you think we are facing mafia and a separate cult?

Ryleh already said there isn't a cult. Vals not being townie again.

 

[Noodle]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

A dead thread is a dead thread. Let's talk about the dream then. What possible benefit can the mafia get from choosing a dream that blocks everything? I'm still assuming they choose their dreams, as per RE's post:

"2) Dreams: Unique to this game the mafia have the dreaming god ability, each night (Including the pregame night) they can pick an ability, dreams effect ethier the next night or day from when they're used. You will not be aware of it's effects until they happen, but the story may hint at whats going to happen."

"What possible benefit can the mafia get from choosing a dream that blocks everything?"

I think the answer lies in the last sentence - "You will not be aware of its effects until they happen" It looks to me like the mafia may not be able to tell what each dream will do. Very interesting.

I would be OK with casting my vote for Valhouros.

 

[Laarz]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

This is what RE said in the signup thread,Val. Sounds like RE doesn't care for cults.

EDIT: Revision: As per CGs suggestion, the dreams are a factional abilility and a prioirty will occur

* The game's theme is generic fantasy: Knights, Wizards, Paladins and stuff

* Even though the mafia is called a Cult, they are not a cult, they don't try to recruit everyone, cults (mechanic) is silly)

I seems alittle off that you seem to think thats there's a cult, do you have a reason for that?

 

[Laarz]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Sath seems to have ninja'ed me. should have previewed I guess.

 

[Gwaihir]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

I might as well come entirely out with my role now, since I doubt I'll be around much longer. I am the Necromage. Every night I get the powers of the deceased (day and night) as a one shot ability if they were permanent on their original user. If they had an x-shot ability, I get the ability but with no charges. So for example after the night when Asrrin and Solar Ice died, I got a 1 time night kill ability, and a 1 time bus driver ability. I may only use one power per night.

Wow, that has to be the most suspicious name/power for a town role. On the other hand, revealing the information that early seems town to me.

I voted for the same person both days who turned up mafia, clearly I'm the suspicious character!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sigh. I hate being wrong, but it looks like I may be as this is actually a very good point. I should probably go back and read exactly what you said, but you were the first vote on him yesterday, and you left a vote on him instead of switching to a townie day one.

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Not getting much traction on this game, I haven't been able to apply myself to it which is not making me happy. Nevertheless and notwithstanding, I will:

Vote: Valhauros

as I believe he is not playing a townie game. For some reason I am currently trusting Sathoris - which is weird, cos I never trust Sath, even when I'm mafia and I know he isn't. Hmm.

I will be looking in again before end of D2 to see where the votes are needed to secure a lynch.

 

[Goryani]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

A dead thread is a dead thread. Let's talk about the dream then. What possible benefit can the mafia get from choosing a dream that blocks everything? I'm still assuming they choose their dreams, as per RE's post:

The start of day hint, plus everyone else weighing in on the subject point to a global roleblock ability. Mafia sometimes have a global roleblock mechanism. They don't always use it, but it's there for use. In a game with 21 power roles, a global roleblock has the potential to stop a lot of townie abilities.

Did mafia know they were triggering a global roleblock? Explicitly, I think not. Implicitly, I think likely. I think coju's take is pretty accurate:

From my understanding, whenever they chose a dream, they didn't knowexactly what they were getting. Just a name: like, "silent night" or, "solar eclipse. "
If you look at your role and the rolls revealed, they are not named normal: paladin and necromage(assuming this isn't a regular role).

What becomes curious is the "from my understanding" line. "From my understanding" is used to denote that you don't come up with idea by yourself. You arrive at your conclusion through the help of others. Who are those others? What was said by those others to help you? Also, why is it that you read/remember the help given by those others and seem oblivious to things such as two townies being lynched on D1 or the idea that it might be a mafia and townie lynched on D1 or roleclaims of Ankeli and I? It sounds like the thread you are paying attention to isn't a thread the town can read.

Vote: coju

 

[Valhauros]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Ankeli's "There was a link in his lynch information that quite clearly stated him as mafia":
I had read the link, but there is no place where it says that it is a role exclusive to the mafia; it clearly says in the box to the right of the article "Alignment: Anti-Town". We are playing a game where everyone has a power role, Why would it be far-fetched for the cult to have that role.

Goryani's "Why do you think we are facing mafia and a separate cult?":
Because it says so in the first post? It clearly states, below the line "Victory Conditions":
[SUB][Highlight]Cult: You win when your numbers equal that of the rest town and nothing can prevent you from winning.[/Highlight][/SUB]

Sathoris' "Ryleh already said there isn't a cult. Vals not being townie again":
What the hell are you talking about? Where did he said that? Am I the only one able to see that there is a line in Rlyeh's first post that says there is a cult? Are you all conspiring against me? Am I imagining things?

 

[Valhauros]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Laarz's "Even though the mafia is called a Cult, they are not a cult, they don't try to recruit everyone":
Are you saying there are only two factions (Town and Mafia)? There is no Mafia and also a Cult? If that's what you are saying, then the role revealed due to Autti's lynch absolutely means that he's from the Mafia, who are actually called Cult for this game? I'm confused...

 

[Sathoris]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

I can't believe you Val..