Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

[Goryani]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

So, I assume that settles some of the dream/story speculations..

Possibly...

Which speculation do you think is settled? Do you think any speculation remains?

Lmao! @ jcak and skjold. Lolz!
Knee slap.

That was just epic. AND night talk in the thread? Awesome! I think re just wants the most posted game award!

That's unusual. You sometimes see lamentations but rarely see gloating after a couple townies get lynched.

Lynching for information? Not a good idea unless you think Skjolde is scum. I'm going to read your D1 posts to see how scummy you thought Skjolde was before this vote.

I checked. You had other posts saying Skjolde was vote worthy. Like a dozen of them.

You seem to be intentionally misunderstanding what I've posted. I'll simplify:

1. I agree that day one lynches are important, as they give valuable information to the town.
2. If my vote will secure a lynch, I will happily cast it.
3. If my vote will be meaningless, such as when someone has already been locked, I will not cast it.

Explain how that is a "Nixon syndrome."

non-Nixonian logic train:

1. It's important for the town to lynch on D1.
2. It's important for players to work toward obtaining a lynch on D1.
3. Players are comprised of others and me.
4. It's important for others to work toward obtaining a lynch on D1.
5. It's important for me to work toward obtaining a lynch on D1.

Nixonian logic train:

1. It's important for the town to lynch on D1.
2. It's important for players to work toward obtaining a lynch on D1.
3. Players are comprised of others and me.
4. It's important for others to work toward obtaining a lynch on D1.
5. It's not important for me to work toward obtaining a lynch because I'm special.

You make a statement such as "D1 lynches are important" and yet I rarely, if ever, see you take steps to help the town obtain the goal you feel is so important. If all players played like you, this game would have 34 posts on D1, none of which would be votes. Your actions proclaim you are a fan of "no D1 lynches" yet your words claim otherwise.

 

[flubbucket1]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

...@Glib: Misquoting is a classic scum tell:

Interesting. I'm finding these "classic" tells to be enlightening. I will continue my pursuit, though I am not a fan of the huge wall of quotes and don't understand the difference between highlights (bolding) and simply quoting the relevant words. I find the tendancy to simply read what is written/quoted without following up on their own.....well, not smart.

 

[Asrrin]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Interesting. I am .....well, not smart.

Because Only quoting "relevant" parts of a quote lead to this. No offense given, I'm just trying to make a point. By posting the entire wall of text and bolding the relevant parts, you keep things in context. A Twonie has no reason to fabricate evidence against someone else, they want genuine scum lynches. A scum on the other hand, wants to twist words every way he can in an attempt to get people to vote innocents. So selective quoting is often times a scummy move.

 

[Sathoris]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

You make a statement such as "D1 lynches are important" and yet I rarely, if ever, see you take steps to help the town obtain the goal you feel is so important. If all players played like you, this game would have 34 posts on D1, none of which would be votes. Your actions proclaim you are a fan of "no D1 lynches" yet your words claim otherwise.

I'm sorry but once again I feel like I must point out your contradiction. And once again I'll bring your own examples into this. Where was your vote on the lynchee on day one? And where was it in the WoT game? You slam Noodle for something you're doing yourself on a regularly basis.

You may voice all your opinions and concerns all you want but if you don't place a vote you fall into your nixonian logic train. Considering we had a lock well before the day ends means I wasn't in time to vote, you said you weren't in time to vote, maybe others had similar plans.

That's strike two, you've only got one left cowboy.

 

[Bad Ash]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Heres strike three Sath:

Lynching for information? Not a good idea unless you think Skjolde is scum. I'm going to read your D1 posts to see how scummy you thought Skjolde was before this vote.

WHAT??????

Lynching for information, on day 1, is not a good idea? are you crazy? Most lynches on D1 are more random than yesterdays was. Any kind of information we can get is a better lynch than one that doesnt.

 

[Gwaihir]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

This is different. RE, couple of questions:

1) Will anyone be modkilled for not posting all night (I assume not)
2) Can we lynch anyone tonight (Again, I assume not)

flubb: I can understand cutting down a huge wall of text to just focus on the paragraph you think is important. But cutting out parts to make people look suspicious is very scummy. Basically the town is looking for the truth, they have nothing to hide. Mafia's job is to manipulate the town - and cutting out important context from a quote is definitely manipulation.

Exactly what Asrrin said above - if you want to draw attention to an important part of what someone said bolding is a better way to go.

 

[korialstraz]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

I'm a bit busy with real life friends and stuff, but I will answer everything that is directed at me in due time. For now this was the post that caught my eye. Only barely skimmed other posts, so I might've missed something else.

@korialstraz
Do you agree with the general outline or the conversation? If not, why not?
Do you think Skjolde was passing along helpful information or do you think Skjolde was answering questions meant for you? If the latter, why? If the former, why do you think so many think it was the latter?
Do you think Skjolde was defending you in #99? If so, why?
Do you think kestegs was sticking up for you in #114?
Do you think Skjolde thought that you needed help answering BA's questions?
Do you think Skjolde thought that answering BA would help the town?

1) As a fresh approach I would agree, although some of the conclusions are a bit off (from my point of view).
2) I think he was passing along information. Was it helpful? Considering the events no it wasn't. My views is he made a misstake because he didn't know how people react when someone speaks for someone else. I don't think he even meant it as a defence of me either, just merely posting facts.
3) No I don't. I've used the word defend earlier, since that seems to be what everyone else wants it to be, even though I (think) posted that he just posted my online/offline status so you would be aware I wasn't at home. However he did stick his neck out for me, and that I think might be because we've played quite a bit of games together, and talked a lot on skype as well as the forums. I guess you could say in a way he was defending me, but not from BA's question, since he didn't answer the question on my behalf. He just sayid why I hadn't posted/replied.
4) Hmmm. I'm not sure tbh. At first it seems like a genuine question, but maybe it was a poke at BA for what seems like a weird question? I can't say either or, since I'm not certain, so that question might be better off aimed at kestegs.
5) No. See answer number 3.
6) Again see number 3 about answering BA's post. As far as helping the town, I don't think he thought it would be either a benefit or a detrimental post for the town.


I want to apologize again for being so busy. As I mentioned a few friends asked if I wanted to play with them, some who I don't get to play with nearly enough. I'll be back again to answer any questions if you have more/there are unanswered questions still remaining.

 

[Caluin Graye]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

All kidding aside, this post at night thing threw me for a loop. and also, can I just say that I REALLY hate not being able to be online during the last few hours of the day?

Agreed. And unlike many of you, I don't have the capacity nor desire to set my alarm for 2:45am to see the end of the day.

Ok, so SKjolde really was a fantastic newbie. Which throws doubts on how I feel about Autti somewhat. On the one hand Autti has made some absolutely ridiculous mistakes that point to him being mafia, on the other hand, so did Sk, and look how that turned out. I'm so confused.

Skjolde's flip changes very little in regards to Autti. Both were making mistakes, both should be scrutinized for them. Yes, they could be newbie mistakes, or they could be legitimate scum slips. Just because the coin flipped heads once does not mean it will flip heads every time.

Come day break, my vote will be on Autti.

Though now that we have an initial voting record, I can safely say that a good chunk of mafia will have voted for Sk as he was such an easy lynch.

If it was not an easy lynch, would mafia have still voted for him?
Out of the twelve people voting, how many scum would you surmise would be on the lynch?
Where would their placements be? Traditional 'third vote', early adopters, or piling on at the end?

That's unusual. You sometimes see lamentations but rarely see gloating after a couple townies get lynched.

If it were anyone but coju I'd find this ground for an immediate lynch. But... it's coju. Coju does what coju does.

 

[RlyehExiled]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

@Gwaihir: It says on the opening of the night you can't vote and I won't modkill you for posting at night or not posting. all other rules apply as usual.

 

[RlyehExiled]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Also it is only THIS!! night you can night talk, I already said it before and I'll state it again start of night 2.

 

[Asrrin]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

If it was not an easy lynch, would mafia have still voted for him?
Out of the twelve people voting, how many scum would you surmise would be on the lynch?
Where would their placements be? Traditional 'third vote', early adopters, or piling on at the end?

In my limited experience as mafia, roughly half of them are usually in on the main lynch train. this obviously differs depending on circumstances, but it's typical for the day 1 lynches I've seen.

No idea of the actual number, but I suspect close to half of the mafia, and any nuetral or anti-town faction as well, since they have no qualms with voting for anyone.

For an easy lynch like SK's, I suspect them to be bunched up near the end to secure the lynch. If it was a more difficult lynch I would tend to be in early and pressure others to lynch, or abandon it and let a no-lynch day occur.

 

[Gwaihir]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

@Gwaihir: It says on the opening of the night you can't vote and I won't modkill you for posting at night or not posting. all other rules apply as usual.

Thanks, reading comprehension fail on my part.

 

[FredOfErik]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Possibly...

Which speculation do you think is settled? Do you think any speculation remains?

The speculation about whether the whole "hard to tell friends from foe" was flavour or indicated that mafia had used a dream that put some sort of restriction on investigative roles.

I assume that the reason we are allowed to talk atm, is that this was the dream mafia used pre-D1, and therefore I also assume that the "friend from foe" bit wasn't a hint, but simply a comment on the confusion that always exist D1(/flavour).

And no, as for now, I don't think there's much more to speculate about. By reading the sign-up thread and RE's posts in this came I assume this is how it works:

-Mafia has a set of dreams
-Each night they may use one of these (whether they know what the different dreams do or not, we have no way to know)
-Each dream has an effect that will last for one day/night period after the night the dream is used
-In the pre-game night mafia used a dream that allowed night talk for the next day phase

 

[LozHinge the Unhinged]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

In my limited experience as mafia, roughly half of them are usually in on the main lynch train. this obviously differs depending on circumstances, but it's typical for the day 1 lynches I've seen.

No idea of the actual number, but I suspect close to half of the mafia, and any nuetral or anti-town faction as well, since they have no qualms with voting for anyone.

For an easy lynch like SK's, I suspect them to be bunched up near the end to secure the lynch. If it was a more difficult lynch I would tend to be in early and pressure others to lynch, or abandon it and let a no-lynch day occur.

I've read this through a few times, Asrrin and a word suddenly appeared in my mind.

Sculpting.

You appear to be sculpting something here. If I was a cynical person (and if the Pope was in Rome and if bears **** in the woods), I would have considered the possibility that you are very deliberately trying to exonerate the early voters of SK and cast suspicion on the tail-enders. It's a manipulative form of theory-crafting of a sort that I tend to do when I am scum.

Is what I am suggesting at all possible?

 

[flubbucket1]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Asrrin you genuinely made me laugh. I love that kind of editing.

Mine is apparently not viewed as kosher, so I will take all the advice given and consider it. Surely I can be succinct in the future without too many missteps. I have been clear regarding my motives and will explain myself no further.

 

[Solar Ice]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

Lmao! @ jcak and skjold. Lolz!
Knee slap.

Wow, Gloating that the town lost 2 of its members is not what a townie would do. At all. If your astoundingly brazen mockery does not raise suspicions of you, something is wrong. We shall see if there are more obvious Scum on Day 2 to vote.

Vote: Skjolde


Just for grins, but I think you're right it can't be unlocked.

I do not know what to make of this except to say that it does not sit well with me. You seem to be doing one of three things:


1. Mocking. You know full well that the vote cannot be unlocked and are toying with JCakes, Another form of Scum gloating and raises my suspicions of you.


2. Not taking the game seriously. You did not know that the locked vote cannot be unlocked and are willing to sacrifice yourself to preserve JCakes life in the case SKjoldes claim was legit. Why not wait and let a Scum member try do the deed in that case, if you are Town? Why take the risk that SK's claim was legit? I would understand thinking that if nobody had the balls to prove SK's claim by risking death, doing something like this at the 25th hour to secure the lynch.


But there was still time to see if the Scum had the balls to put the locking vote. Granted it would be unlikely that they would so so, as in that situation they benefit either way. Either everyone chickens out from fear of death and SK is not lynched and Town would have less info to go on from there being a No lynch D1. Or of course 2 Townies die.


But that is beside the point, Why not take the chance that they would go for it? Why not wait a bit longer?


3. Showboating. You have an ability that grants you some sort of an immunty from death. If so, why would you display it in such a Oh-look-at-me-I-am-so-cool way How would this help the Town?


You are my number 1 candidate for a lynch so far. Your earlier misquotes/manipulation also do not help you at all and the Godfather talk is strange too. You are my number 1 candidate for a lynch so far.


---------------------------


My thoughts on Jcakes death:


The same questions could be asked of JCakes as I do in point #2 at flibbucket.


Why did he place the locking vote on SK, knowing full well that he (JCakes) is Town? Why not wait and let a Scum step up to the plate? We could have had an extra player to aid the Town.

For this night ONLY you may post as though it was day, night actions will still resolve as normal (ie: at the end of the night step), there is no voting, you will not be modkilled/replaced for not posting. All other rules apply (except not posting at night obviously).

So this the Dream? Intresting. From what I have read, Scum pick abilities for the dream. If we logcally assume that there is more than one ability to pick from, why pick this particuar type? I dont know their choices but this seems that they have picked an ability that makes it possible for more posting. to occur.


Why? Is it possibly because they need more information to decide who to target? Or is it because they love to talk in general? Or is it something else?

In his rage his captors fled, fearing the same fate as poor Jcakes when suddenly an arrow from nowhere peirced his eye.

This for some reason stands out as a possible clue. Why did SK die like that, so mysteriously and seemingly by surprise? "Out of nowhere" Indicates surprise. Could this be a hint of a possible steath-based Power role or an indication of some sort of a twist that no one expected?


Of course, I could be totally overanalysing this.

So if we want to look at your posts to see if you are a townie then we need to first prompt you to post? /poke I guess.

You don't need to prompt me to post. I did not see a need to add to Korals post, hence why I did not post anything else, or reply because I did not know his comment was aimed at me.

If it were anyone but coju I'd find this ground for an immediate lynch. But... it's coju. Coju does what coju does.

So what if its Coju? Do you defend his mockery, or agree with it? It should not be amusing for ANY townie that 2 of us are dead. Are you saying that we should disregard this because that this is his playing style? Are you trying to attract attention away from your scum partner?


You have raised my suspitions more than a few notches with that comment of yours.

I've read this through a few times, Asrrin and a word suddenly appeared in my mind.


Sculpting.


You appear to be sculpting something here. If I was a cynical person (and if the Pope was in Rome and if bears **** in the woods), I would have considered the possibility that you are very deliberately trying to exonerate the early voters of SK and cast suspicion on the tail-enders. It's a manipulative form of theory-crafting of a sort that I tend to do when I am scum.


Is what I am suggesting at all possible?

It is also possible that he is trying to deflect attention from the voters in the middle of the band wagon, not early or the late ones. The ones that are in the middle are the ones that, imo should be scrutinized as the early ones and the late comers are already more often than not under suspicion by the town in Mafia games. What better place to be than in the middle when everybody is looking early or late?


Do you agree with that, Asserin?

 

[korialstraz]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

All caught up now.

I would prefer to go after glib, but it appears I am the only one.

I am ok with lynching Korial as he is the second of my top two suspects.

Unvotie: Glib

Vote: Korialstratz

I do still want a response to the "I thought I had slipped up" comment.

It would bug me too if someone else made a slip up like that, just after saying he was glad he didn't slip up. Can't say anything to change this.

There you go. I doubt there is anything more to say. I've seen this slip up happen in other games too, and should've known to word myself better than that.



For now I still find BA's question weird, however flubb is suspicious to me as well for the miss-quoting. Didn't like that at all. Autti while not that high on the list still remains there.

Not quite sure who I would vote for though, but I'm ok with flubb or Autti. I don't think I'd be ready to vote BA though. His question might've been weird, but I might have overreacted on that end yesterday, as questioning RL activities really hits a nerve with me. Not to say that is what BA did, but that is partly how I started to feel about it.

 

[Asrrin]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

To both Solar Ice and Loz, I'm not deflecting anything really, I was asked for my personal opinion and I gave it. Obviously any, all or none of the mafia could have voted for SK, I'm just letting you know what I had done in previous similar situations when I was mafia. What is far more telling for me are the people who tried to bandwagon no less than three new people who were all under fire in an attempt to get them lynched knowing it would be an easy lynch. And those people are Bad Ash and Val.

 

[Goryani]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

For my Peace of mind what mistakes have I made?

You've mentioned Occam's Razor.:jig:

for instance I have no idea what goryani posted even when it was an abridged version

Which post?

I'm sorry but once again I feel like I must point out your contradiction. And once again I'll bring your own examples into this. Where was your vote on the lynchee on day one? And where was it in the WoT game? You slam Noodle for something you're doing yourself on a regularly basis.

You may voice all your opinions and concerns all you want but if you don't place a vote you fall into your nixonian logic train. Considering we had a lock well before the day ends means I wasn't in time to vote, you said you weren't in time to vote, maybe others had similar plans.

That's strike two, you've only got one left cowboy.

Again, I'm wondering why you, of all people, need to ask these questions.

In no particular order:
It's possible to work toward a lynch without having a vote at the time or at the end of the day. It's working toward a lynch: not lurking toward a lynch. I normally phrase it "pursuit of a lynch." Since this is night and since you said you would do a deep meta analysis on me this night, I'll help you with phrases to look for.

It's possible to not vote the lynchee because you think they aren't scum. I'm not claiming this reason this game. I'm claiming this reason in the WoT game. I voiced my displeasure at The Plan several times.

I worked toward obtaining a lynch on D1. I asked lots of questions of lots of players. I gave lots of opinions. To imply that Noodle and I had such similar behavior that I deserve scolding for calling him out is to admit you didn't pay attention to anything I have written this game.

In case you didn't notice (I guess not), I had a vote yesterday. In case you didn't notice (I guess not), I placed myself in a position to change my vote before the scheduled end of day.

Notice I'm not interrogating you for not having a vote at the end of the day or not voting the lynchee. Why? Because you engaged in pursuit of a lynch.

That's strike two, you've only got one left cowboy.

You realize that I'm the pitcher and you're the batter in this analogy?

Heres strike three Sath:

WHAT??????

Lynching for information, on day 1, is not a good idea? are you crazy? Most lynches on D1 are more random than yesterdays was. Any kind of information we can get is a better lynch than one that doesnt.

Please to read the entire thought:

Lynching for information? Not a good idea unless you think Skjolde is scum. I'm going to read your D1 posts to see how scummy you thought Skjolde was before this vote.

Voting randomly is a path to a town loss. If you lynch 2 or 3 townies for every mafia, then mafia are going to win. On the other hand, if you lynch only 1 townie for every mafia, town has a chance at winning.

Lynching for information without considering the scumminess of the player lynched is the epitome of a random lynch. In other words, the epitome of a town loss.

I checked to see if you thought Skjolde was scummy before that "let's lynch for information" post. You did. I feel confident in saying you didn't lynch for information. I feel confident in saying you lynched someone you thought was scummy.

1) As a fresh approach I would agree, although some of the conclusions are a bit off (from my point of view).
2) I think he was passing along information. Was it helpful? Considering the events no it wasn't. My views is he made a misstake because he didn't know how people react when someone speaks for someone else. I don't think he even meant it as a defence of me either, just merely posting facts.
3) No I don't. I've used the word defend earlier, since that seems to be what everyone else wants it to be, even though I (think) posted that he just posted my online/offline status so you would be aware I wasn't at home. However he did stick his neck out for me, and that I think might be because we've played quite a bit of games together, and talked a lot on skype as well as the forums. I guess you could say in a way he was defending me, but not from BA's question, since he didn't answer the question on my behalf. He just sayid why I hadn't posted/replied.
4) Hmmm. I'm not sure tbh. At first it seems like a genuine question, but maybe it was a poke at BA for what seems like a weird question? I can't say either or, since I'm not certain, so that question might be better off aimed at kestegs.
5) No. See answer number 3.
6) Again see number 3 about answering BA's post. As far as helping the town, I don't think he thought it would be either a benefit or a detrimental post for the town.

Thank you.

Skjolde's flip changes very little in regards to Autti. Both were making mistakes, both should be scrutinized for them. Yes, they could be newbie mistakes, or they could be legitimate scum slips. Just because the coin flipped heads once does not mean it will flip heads every time.

Isn't there a term for that?

Mine is apparently not viewed as kosher, so I will take all the advice given and consider it. Surely I can be succinct in the future without too many missteps. I have been clear regarding my motives and will explain myself no further.

Did your selective quoting lead you to a better understanding of korialstraz?

 

[Laarz]

Re: Roles of Madness. Mafia Thread

To both Solar Ice and Loz, I'm not deflecting anything really, I was asked for my personal opinion and I gave it. Obviously any, all or none of the mafia could have voted for SK, I'm just letting you know what I had done in previous similar situations when I was mafia. What is far more telling for me are the people who tried to bandwagon no less than three new people who were all under fire in an attempt to get them lynched knowing it would be an easy lynch. And those people are Bad Ash and Val.

Asrrin,it seems to me what you are saying is, look I have to be town,because look where I voted. I guess I will be able to tell if you are mafia if you vote late in a lynch then.