which is exactly what I was saying. Should I say "wanna play" and revote for you?
Returning to the Roots - Mini mafia game
- Thread starter Caluin Graye
- Start date
which is exactly what I was saying. Should I say "wanna play" and revote for you?
If I had to bet my coins on the 2nd mafioso at this time I'd say it's Kegs. They voted for eachother with Phil during d1 when they saw that the townies lynched one of their own without their help, creating more cover for themselves. That's a long shot though, but I'm not getting it from BA:
I see that your current suspect list is topped by Bad Ash and Phillinnicus. Are your suspicions of kestegs and Ankeli alleviated? If so, what caused those suspicions to wane?
Who were the two people? What were their cases? Did you agree or disagree with their cases?
Kestegs
Active member
You and Zokar, which were the two quotes you provided in the post I was responding to. They were largely the same case, but Zokar's was built upon yours I believe.
I would say that I could see the logic in their cases. If it had come down to it I would have voted her in favor of a no lynch, but I felt more strongly about phil and solar at that point.
I wrote this during N1 of the ASoIaF game:
Goryani said:
I didn't think you were overwhelmed. I didn't think you had trouble keeping up with new lingo. If you had a question you asked. You got your hands dirty by throwing out our own trains of thought.
Compare that to this game. Just about every good thing I have to say about your play last game is quite the opposite this game. The most disturbing trait I see in you I'll paraphrase as being afraid to speak unless spoken to. You aren't re-reading the thread. You say you should learn more about the roles in order to participate yet I don't see that you've actually done so.
Such an abrupt change in behavior is most commonly found when someone used to playing townie receives a mafia role for the first time. Townies aren't usually afraid to post their thoughts while mafia frequently are. They are afraid of slipping up and getting lynched. I'm not certain of your role PM in the ASoIaF game, but I think it's closer to townie than mafia. Therefore, you receiving a mafia role this game can still cause your change in behavior.
Which theories were hard for you to get? Why didn't you ask questions if you had them?
Multiple times you mentioned lack of discussion as a reason why you weren't participating in the game. "Woe is me: I would participate more if only there was more discussion I could participate in" looks to be an accurate translation. If that isn't accurate, then why did you mention the lack of discussion? What goal did you hope to achieve?
Are you more worried about finding mafia or being lynched?
This is a small game. One more mislynch = LYLO.
Phil isn't radiating towniness but neither are are lot of other players. Phil is acting scummy enough to vote. However, there are only two mafia yet more than two are acting scummy enough to vote for. One scummy player is townie. I'm not voting until I get a better read on which one it is.
I can't tell if you think it's SI or BA who's trying to save a scum buddy.
I think it's incorrect to say I'd be driving a second lynch today when Phillinnicus was already a L-1 (for a moment) before I made that post.
I want Phillinnicus to engage and respond and talk in the hopes of determining if he is townie. I don't know how to get him to talk without directing things his way since he doesn't seem to participate in anything else this game.
See also post 168. D2 in a normal game doesn't usually come with the issue of too many scum to be scum.
In all honesty, when you guys starting talking about roles and situations in which roles do this and that and so on; I just completely glazed over it. I kept getting lost, so I just didn't even think about it anymore.
Also, I was just kinda ragey at kestegs for putting me on an innocent little scumlist.So I didn't really bother changing my vote because it looked like Moar was going to be locked anyway.
Highlighting the questions and answers.
@Bad Ash, Solar Ice, Gwaihir
If you asked the questions I asked, would you be satisfied with the answers? Does any answer look townie to you? Does any answer look scummy to you?
Kestegs
Active member
SI. I'm not overly suspicious of BA right now.
I think its a fair assessment, and I agree that diverting behavior is usually a good tell.
Unvote: Solar Ice
Vote: Phillinnicus
Phillinnicus
New member
Last game, I always, always considered myself mafia from the start. I was a wraith from the very start, paired with the WW's. I didn't see how I could have been townie.
I think I find being mafia much easier to play, townie is harder because you get less information and can't have as much of an informed discussion with a mafia partner for example. With being a townie, it's all theories and suspicions, mafia has more information and you can formulate more direct plans.
As for theories that I found hard, was this entire Moar thing. I didn't understand what anyone was saying. I kept telling myself to check the wiki but I've kept putting it off because of studying for exams/slacking off and playing Dungeon Defenders.
I didn't ask questions because I thought I was already being too excessive in my questions in the previous game, so I tried avoiding asking any really this game.
Mentioning lack of discussion was a way for me to explain why I wasn't participating in discussion, such as the Moar thing. By saying that there wasn't that much it saved me from asking a bunch of questions and bogging the thread down with them. It was a weak excuse for me to continue being lazy.
I'm worried about being mislynched because of my lack of initiative in actually learning the game better. I feel bad because I'm not as focused on the game as everyone else.
I'm going to go through the wiki again now, just so I can get a better idea of the game in general. If someone had a question they wanted answered just ask me again.
Vote: kestegs
I'm late for a dinner party so the reasons will have to wait. Townie points for anyone who comes up with some by the time I get back.
Kestegs
Active member
So you want others to do your dirty work?
who made you the authority on giving out townie points? Sounds like you think you've got town cred all of a sudden.
I'd bet that I have reasons no one else comes up with but I don't think anyone would take the bet.
I'm the sole authority for all points I give out whether the points are townie or scum. If you want to give out points then do so.
my urge to vote you is strong.
The reasons...
From a jailer's point of view, they have less than a 1/9 chance to catch mafia since they don't know if saved the victim or blocked the hitman. From a mafia point of view, the jailer has a 1/9 chance to block the mafia hitman. This post looks closer to the mafia point of view than townie point of view and it also occurred before the goon = hitman breadcrumb.
This post has a couple of things.
As of Solar Ice's post, kestegs made post 21, 24 and 28. Post 21 and 24 were OT type posts. Post 28 contained statistics in a manner found in many mafia games.
I disagree with SI that kestegs didn't spam. I think 21 and 24 are indicative of typical kestegs postings. Despite that, kestegs didn't correct SI. kestegs accepted SI's premise that kestegs wasn't his usual self. Accepting the premise of a question is commonly done to ingratiate one's self with the question asker. Politicians do it in interviews and press conferences. Criminals do it under interrogation. Mafia have done it. If they do it, it's usually in a deflecting manner and that's what this post appears to do. SI's main question looks to be "do you have anything else to add" and a result of kestegs reply is a scumlist.
The main reason I'm quoting this post is the reason given for Phillinnicus' placement on the scumlist. By itself, that isn't disturbing. When I asked kestegs about the chicken and egg scenario, I knew kestegs mentioned already having a scummy opinion of Phillinnicus. I asked kestegs which posts (made before post 61) led to that opinion. kestegs reply pointed to posts made around post 85. It looks like kestegs knew Phillinnicus was scummy even before Phillinnicus made the statements that made him look scummy. Time travel!
Post 64. Just pointing out the underlined sentence. I'll reference it later.
This post occurrred 1min after kestegs replied to several phillinnicus posts and included a vote.
It's a textbook mafia ploy. I recognize it because I've done it many times. He has options. Not voting Moar isn't too scummy since he's voting is primary suspect. Later voting Moar wouldn't be too scummy because he agreed with the reason given to vote Moar. There are reasons and explanations for any course of action he takes. Additionally, this post throws support for a Moar lynch. Posts like this make it easier for others to vote Moar.
I'm not sure if I would have unvoted Moar if I saw this post before the end of the day but I would have definitely raised a ruckus.
Another post with multiple issues.
"What are the chances that mafia are found among this group of players that doesn't include you?"
"High I'd say."
That's not an inaccurate translation. Finding mafia in a group of 4 players has better odds than finding mafia in a group of 7 players. A concensus that at least one mafioso among Moar votes has the effect of making it easy to ignore the non-Moar voters.
Another scumlist is given and it includes SI, who was a Moar voter. SI was on kestegs' D1 scum list as well. Funny thing though. Remember that underlined bit I said I would reference later? Look back at it now.
If kestegs said "those two people" posted to his satisfaction or not posted in post 64, why does 2 or the original 3 still appear on the scumlist in post 121? I take it I'm the "not posted" player of post 64. If so, then either SI or Phillinnicus should be the "responded to kestegs satisfaction" half. It looks like kestegs post 64 removes SI from the scumlist since Phillinnicus received attention and a vote. Why did SI go back on the scumlist?
It looks like post 64 is meant to get SI to back off. It looks like it worked.
I admit I had to look back and see if kestegs mentioned his reasons for saying SI was scum (looking back was when I picked up post 28 being relevant with a mafia hitman point of view).
What I see I wouldn't characterize as kestegs giving reasons SI is scummy. Instead, I see reasons why we shouldn't listen to SI when SI says kestegs is scummy. I urge everyone to look over kestegs D1 posts and post their thoughts on the matter. (In other words, how many players will read this sentence?)
How true. But who had the second case? I'd say it was you. Zokar posted after you did.
I already referenced this.
Mass claim works best when it happens at least a couple days before LYLO. That would be today in case anyone is keeping track. I'm in favor of mass claim today. Perhaps surprisingly, I would have been fine with a mass claim on D1.
Not advocating a mass claim also makes it more like a cop or jailer keeps their yap shut. Their silence benefits mafia.
SI has a strange way of trying to save his scum buddy by placing his scum buddy at Lock-1. If phillinnicus and SI are scum buddies, I think bussing is the proper term. No way SI did what he did in order to try and save a fellow scum buddy. I know you've talked about bussing before so your lack of it's use here leads me to believe you don't truly think both SI and phillinnicus are scum.
More textbook mafia action. "I didn't vote for a townie that was lynched because TWO others were more suspicious." You would have voted to avoid a no lynch yet you also made sure to support the basic reason given by every voter.
From a jailer's point of view, they have less than a 1/9 chance to catch mafia since they don't know if saved the victim or blocked the hitman. From a mafia point of view, the jailer has a 1/9 chance to block the mafia hitman. This post looks closer to the mafia point of view than townie point of view and it also occurred before the goon = hitman breadcrumb.
This post has a couple of things.
As of Solar Ice's post, kestegs made post 21, 24 and 28. Post 21 and 24 were OT type posts. Post 28 contained statistics in a manner found in many mafia games.
I disagree with SI that kestegs didn't spam. I think 21 and 24 are indicative of typical kestegs postings. Despite that, kestegs didn't correct SI. kestegs accepted SI's premise that kestegs wasn't his usual self. Accepting the premise of a question is commonly done to ingratiate one's self with the question asker. Politicians do it in interviews and press conferences. Criminals do it under interrogation. Mafia have done it. If they do it, it's usually in a deflecting manner and that's what this post appears to do. SI's main question looks to be "do you have anything else to add" and a result of kestegs reply is a scumlist.
The main reason I'm quoting this post is the reason given for Phillinnicus' placement on the scumlist. By itself, that isn't disturbing. When I asked kestegs about the chicken and egg scenario, I knew kestegs mentioned already having a scummy opinion of Phillinnicus. I asked kestegs which posts (made before post 61) led to that opinion. kestegs reply pointed to posts made around post 85. It looks like kestegs knew Phillinnicus was scummy even before Phillinnicus made the statements that made him look scummy. Time travel!
Post 64. Just pointing out the underlined sentence. I'll reference it later.
This post occurrred 1min after kestegs replied to several phillinnicus posts and included a vote.
It's a textbook mafia ploy. I recognize it because I've done it many times. He has options. Not voting Moar isn't too scummy since he's voting is primary suspect. Later voting Moar wouldn't be too scummy because he agreed with the reason given to vote Moar. There are reasons and explanations for any course of action he takes. Additionally, this post throws support for a Moar lynch. Posts like this make it easier for others to vote Moar.
I'm not sure if I would have unvoted Moar if I saw this post before the end of the day but I would have definitely raised a ruckus.
Another post with multiple issues.
"What are the chances that mafia are found among this group of players that doesn't include you?"
"High I'd say."
That's not an inaccurate translation. Finding mafia in a group of 4 players has better odds than finding mafia in a group of 7 players. A concensus that at least one mafioso among Moar votes has the effect of making it easy to ignore the non-Moar voters.
Another scumlist is given and it includes SI, who was a Moar voter. SI was on kestegs' D1 scum list as well. Funny thing though. Remember that underlined bit I said I would reference later? Look back at it now.
If kestegs said "those two people" posted to his satisfaction or not posted in post 64, why does 2 or the original 3 still appear on the scumlist in post 121? I take it I'm the "not posted" player of post 64. If so, then either SI or Phillinnicus should be the "responded to kestegs satisfaction" half. It looks like kestegs post 64 removes SI from the scumlist since Phillinnicus received attention and a vote. Why did SI go back on the scumlist?
It looks like post 64 is meant to get SI to back off. It looks like it worked.
I admit I had to look back and see if kestegs mentioned his reasons for saying SI was scum (looking back was when I picked up post 28 being relevant with a mafia hitman point of view).
What I see I wouldn't characterize as kestegs giving reasons SI is scummy. Instead, I see reasons why we shouldn't listen to SI when SI says kestegs is scummy. I urge everyone to look over kestegs D1 posts and post their thoughts on the matter. (In other words, how many players will read this sentence?)
How true. But who had the second case? I'd say it was you. Zokar posted after you did.
I already referenced this.
Mass claim works best when it happens at least a couple days before LYLO. That would be today in case anyone is keeping track. I'm in favor of mass claim today. Perhaps surprisingly, I would have been fine with a mass claim on D1.
Not advocating a mass claim also makes it more like a cop or jailer keeps their yap shut. Their silence benefits mafia.
SI has a strange way of trying to save his scum buddy by placing his scum buddy at Lock-1. If phillinnicus and SI are scum buddies, I think bussing is the proper term. No way SI did what he did in order to try and save a fellow scum buddy. I know you've talked about bussing before so your lack of it's use here leads me to believe you don't truly think both SI and phillinnicus are scum.
More textbook mafia action. "I didn't vote for a townie that was lynched because TWO others were more suspicious." You would have voted to avoid a no lynch yet you also made sure to support the basic reason given by every voter.
Why ?