OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

[Nolecub]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

So you admit to mis-interpreting the rules but yet have devised a plan on how to use said rules to our advantage?

Does anyone else see the flaws in this?

Nice try on claiming a town role, I may or may not be wrong on Liq, but you are definitely not part of the family.

 

[friedbananazzzz]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

We could always just go with the name of whoever goltar has, if (s)he is willing to give up the person's name.

 

[Magicboy]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

My suspicion list goes as follows: (In no particular order)

Merlin, Liq, Naz, Smeg


Merlin: He has been acting pretty strangely in his posts. For some reason, I just seem to get an anti-town feeling when I read them. A lot of them are long and he changes his mind a lot. (Not that I mind long posts but long posts that constantly change sides are pretty suspicous)
Liq: He opened the vote against Smeg. Claims to be a townie that drank last night. Two main possiblities (the pretty obvious ones). 1. He truly is townie and Smeg is up to no good. 2. He is up to no good by framing Smeg who might actually be a townie.
*Note* By townie, I mean pro-town role (too used to saying townie)
Naz: He opened up a scheme to try and catch mafia. However, this scheme seems to be very full of flaws.
Smeg: Liq might just be framing him or he might actually been up and about last night.

Naz and Liq seem to be helping each other out in ways. This is pretty suspicious since they seem to be completely agreeing with each other.

Also, this bandwagon thing that happened from Liq's first post is pretty scary. Almost everyone seems to just go along with Liq since he claimed to have spotted Smeg up and about last night. This early in the game however, there is pretty much nothing else to do.

Still not sure on who to vote yet. I'm hesitant to vote until there is one person that stands out as anti-town.

 

[friedbananazzzz]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

Also, this bandwagon thing that happened from Liq's first post is pretty scary. Almost everyone seems to just go along with Liq since he claimed to have spotted Smeg up and about last night. This early in the game however, there is pretty much nothing else to do.

And if Smeg is a townie-mafia, then Liq's actions are pretty much suicidal, as he'll be almost garaunteed to be lynched the next day.

 

[Liquid_Evil]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

What would I have to gain by "framing" smeg? To throw myself into the spotlight immediately with my fate resting on the lynch outcome of a guy apparently chosen by myself at random? Most people believe that there is no real gain to me coming forward this early with a lie so are inclined to believe me. I did it without being pressured in an honest attempt to bank on our best set of odds and lynch Smeg. Since the pressure on him started he has posted twice, one not denying anything or throwing a vote back at me and the other just a plain and simple NCP.

So A) I'm telling the truth.
1) We ignore me and lynch someone else. Boo for the town.
2) We lynch Smeg and he turns up mafia. Yay for the town.
3) We lynch Smeg and he's a pro-town role that was active at night. Worst case scenario is that the odds weren't in my favor and I just helped kill the cop. Actions can be taken against me tomorrow.

B) I'm lying. (I have nothing to gain by doing this, but I'll entertain the thoughts of the nay-sayers)
1) We ignore me and lynch someone else.
2) We lynch Smeg and he turns up townie (that would be the highest odds if I were lying) and it will confirm my lie. We lynch me the next day at the very least as an unhelpful townie or at best, a playful mafioso.
3) We lynch Smeg and he turns up mafia/pro-town role. I lucked out and my story makes sense, making me the luckiest unhelpful townie/playful mafioso in the history of the game. It will unlikely brand me an official townie and my posts will still be approached with caution.

Really though, A-2 makes the most sense from a probability standpoint (and because I know I'm telling the truth) and I hope you guys will stay the course and ensure he dies.

 

[Merlin The Wizzard]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

@magicboy - You know, your suspicions against me echo those of Sint's almost completely. Another one who gets 'vague, undefinable anti-town feelings' when reading my posts. Not something I can really defend against, now is it?
If you could do me the honor of telling me in what way I seem fatally flawed to you, I might be able to give you a reasonable response.

Further on, your list of suspects holds both Liq and Smeg. Now that is odd, because suspecting the one pretty much implies trusting the other, they are pretty much pointing their finger at each other. Not exactly sure what to make of this, but I think it's strange and suspicious nevertheless.

 

[NacRuno]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

As a result of all the debate, i think that Smeg's two posts are convincing enough to vote for him even if Liq's posts are disregarded.

Sorry Smeg, but your death will at least reveal a clue. Vote: Smeg

 

[Nazdakka]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

Someone still needs to step as tonight's drinker.

 

[maatiarna]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

@maatiarna : It should be obvious to the drinkee he spotted the doctor if no Nightkills were made. He doesn't have to reveal the name, after all... All the other participants will also realize that he must have spotted a town role, and if Naz's plan is followed, probably the doc if no NK was claimed.

Sorry that I did not make myself very clear in one of my points when I said that if the townie that was drinking did not realise that they may have IDed the Doc I should of also stated that one or both groups of the mafia had been active and there where NKs.

@ Liq as you stated you where drinking last night and saw lister out and about at night, there is a possibility that he is a townie power role such as the extremely helpful doc or goon. So lister gets lynched on this sighting of yours. Worse case scenario is that he is the doc and the plan that Naz has come up with (which I do not fully agree with myself) will not have the opportunity to work!!!!

At the moment I have only one suspect and that is Nolecub. In my opinion is their posts so far have no real content that has been of any help to the town.
Therefore I Vote Nolecub

 

[Magicboy]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

@magicboy - You know, your suspicions against me echo those of Sint's almost completely. Another one who gets 'vague, undefinable anti-town feelings' when reading my posts. Not something I can really defend against, now is it?
If you could do me the honor of telling me in what way I seem fatally flawed to you, I might be able to give you a reasonable response.

Further on, your list of suspects holds both Liq and Smeg. Now that is odd, because suspecting the one pretty much implies trusting the other, they are pretty much pointing their finger at each other. Not exactly sure what to make of this, but I think it's strange and suspicious nevertheless.

First of all, it is pretty much true that your posts are long and constantly change sides. I do not have "vague, undefinable anti-town feelings" but I do think that your long and winding posts that seem wishy-washy are suspicious.

I put both Smeg and Liq on my suspicion list because I have no idea which one of them is telling the truth. One of them are definitely lying.

How would it be suspicious if I suspect them both? If one is telling the truth then the other is lying. Unless you happen to know which one is lying?

 

[Magicboy]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

I should also point out that this

Not exactly sure what to make of this, but I think it's strange and suspicious nevertheless.

Sounds just like your description. 'Vague, undefinable anti-town feelings'

 

[water_moon]

Out of the several anti-Naz plan posts, only Nolecub really stood out as an oddity. He did five things:
1) He starts off his post with the following, "Your plan sets the town up to fail, pure and simple" in an attempt to discredit Naz and his plan.
He claims this right out of the gate, but then does NOT back it up with anything. Why does this set up the town to fail so pure and simple? Not even an attempt at an explanation = no real thought into the matter. At best a careless townie.

*
Or he agreed with the previous statements and just didn't feel like repeating himself. Thyiad also didn't explain why she though it was such a bad idea, and began the bandwagon, how is she less suspicious?

@Merlin, but the other guys have bonus abilities too, and that throws such a wrench into the works that it's not a logical plan, it's a dangerous plan that makes far too many assumptions (number of drinkers left for one) and cuts out the town's power roles from the start. The mafia could just as easily come up with a brilliant plan to out a whole bunch of people and kill off the Doc while making sure the power roles stay inactive. The ONLY time the town has won was due directly to the power roles.

The bonus abilities will show the same usefulness as each indiviual's abilites to use them. Anyone who's ever been on a "committee" knows that the more people involded the lower the intellegence of the result. Have the abilities used accouing to committee plan and watch the usefulness plumet.

@lister: sorry, if you weren't out we'll avenge your death on LE tommorow. He has no reason to finger you falsly -- even if you are mafia/cop that WON'T put him in the clear, if he's in the same group you might be the goat to make him appear as innocent. And you could have easily and belivably said you were drunk and goltar was who you saw...

Also, Muzzz's appearance into this thread should have been a huge clue that Naz is on the level.

Delays cost. And the Don can't like the kinda talk that'll keep his biz from running. Be it from a cousin or a traitor. Or a cousin turned traitor. You running a side biz yourself, or have you been sampling your own goods?

Vote: Lister


*I changed the italics to underline since all quotes are itialicized.

 

[water_moon]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

Crap. We need a new drinker for tonight. I'm one of those who misinterpreted the rules and didn't realise the abilities had to be chosen before the game starts... so I've got myself lumped with 'Stay cautious'. Muzzz is refusing to fix the ****-up.

Doh.

Volunteers?

And that'll be the cincher that moves me away from beliving you're an innocent munchkin clinging to an idea despite the numerous flaws to either A: DAS (dumb as something that hits fans) or B: Not in the family. And too dangerous by half.

 

[NacRuno]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

Unvote: Lister

I was reading over the thread and noticed something i have missed before. Seeing that it has never been stated before i feel like i must draw my vote from lister till i come up with a conclusion myself.

I first need to verify with muzz that my understanding is correct, till than i do not want to make anyone more confused than they already are...

 

[Merlin The Wizzard]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

Hmm. I have explained my voting behavior. When Nazdakka came up with his plan, I had my doubts at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I liked it. Hence I tried to defend it to those who pointed out the flaws. Apparently, I failed to make this clear in my posts. I can't take offense, it's not exactly the first time someone has troubles following the way I think. Heck, at times I have troubles following the way I think. :grin: Just wonder why that seems suspicious. Of what exactly? You still haven't defined it yet.

As to why I feel suspicious... Townies need to take a stand. You need to place a vote, so a lynch can be secured at the end of the day. Not voting because you can't decide which side is right is not helping the town. That's why I feel it's suspicious.

However, the day is not over yet, so there is still more then enough time to cast a vote and come down that fence you are perched on atm. I don't have a mafia read(as in, bad guys) on you.

See? It's not too hard to quantify suspicions, if asked to do so.

 

[Sint Nikolaas]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

Nice avatar w_m :smiley:

 

[Merlin The Wizzard]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

*
@Merlin, but the other guys have bonus abilities too, and that throws such a wrench into the works that it's not a logical plan, it's a dangerous plan that makes far too many assumptions (number of drinkers left for one) and cuts out the town's power roles from the start. The mafia could just as easily come up with a brilliant plan to out a whole bunch of people and kill off the Doc while making sure the power roles stay inactive. The ONLY time the town has won was due directly to the power roles.

The bonus abilities will show the same usefulness as each indiviual's abilites to use them. Anyone who's ever been on a "committee" knows that the more people involded the lower the intellegence of the result. Have the abilities used accouing to committee plan and watch the usefulness plumet.

Muzz explains in his first post that the rival mafia and the undercover cops each get to pick their 1 ability as a team. This means that, apart from the night kill, each of these factions has one time to use their one ability. Plus, if they use their ability, they have a chance to be spotted by a town drunk.

The beauty of the plan is that it doesn't need to run to it's full completion. The question is, how does the opposition react to it? Do they attempt to make a nightkill? If so, who is the target? This could give some valuable information in the short run. That information should be a guideline for how to vote/play the second day...

 

[Nazdakka]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

And that'll be the cincher that moves me away from beliving you're an innocent munchkin clinging to an idea despite the numerous flaws to either A: DAS (dumb as something that hits fans) or B: Not in the family. And too dangerous by half.

Heh. Nice to meet you, too. The explanation on that point isn't very wonderful, there are two sets of rules, the latter of which is in no way clear on the point which caught me out (I thought we got to use one of the two abilities on a single night, but had to message Muzzz even if we weren't doing anything), and it's all very well Muzzz saying that if anyone's confused, they should PM him, but if you don't know you're confused then you aren't going to find out until too late. I even sent Muzzz a PM at the right time, saying that I didn't want to use either ability that night (which is what I thought I needed to do) - from reading it he can't have failed to figure out that I'd gotten things mixed up - but... he's the GM, so whatever.

So. I've addressed the various points that have been made, and people are still saying the plan is full of holes, without saying exactly what the holes are. If we are following it, SOMEONE needs to come forward now to be the drinker. If we aren't... then what are going to do? Without co-ordination, the drinking ability becomes almost totally useless because a bad guy who gets caught can simply claim to be a power role or a drinker. We've been handed a really powerful trick. Let's use it.

 

[Nazdakka]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

One more point to the people saying the plan is flawed:

Give me, in detail, your worst-case scenario, and how likely you think it is.

 

[Ray Patean]

Re: OT: SPF mafia round 7 - Return to Salem

Worst Case Scenario: The anti-town roles stay inactive, thus leaving only the doc and the drinker as the active roles. The mafia does this until all the potential drinkers have finished, and then goes about killing us one by one with no fear of being seen by a drinker. It is highly likely to happen, especially if people keep coming forward to say "I'll be the one to rat out the anti-town roles tonight!"