OT: July 16th, 2005 HARRY POTTER SPOILER THREAD
- Thread starter Bunny_Usagi
- Start date
jjscud
Active member
TrubbaNot said:
I thought it was an interesting commentary. The idea that someone who was obviously delving into the black arts at the time could still provide very handy and usefull information. Personally I would like to see both Harry and Hermione have to come to terms with this and go back for the book knowing they hate the author of the annotations and yet accepting their usefullness.
killian271
New member
jjscud said:
"Know thine enemy"
With all the emphasis on "love" setting Harry apart, I think he should have been forced to look deeply into the implications of (for instance) using a spell that is simply labeled "for enemies" without knowing what it would do. Yes, he was appalled at the effect, but I really think this needed more exploration.jjscud said:
Also, taking credit for excelling at Potions even though it wasn't his own work was pretty shady. Hermione's disapproval really wasn't much. Gryffindor got points for Snape's work -- I really expected those points to be taken away, at the very least. Along with a lecture on honor and upright dealings.
This does show Harry's ambitious side to an extent, and illustrates part of how he could have been Sorted into Slytherin, but I think there was much that was untapped in the story line.
That being said, you have a very good point about the handy/uselful info provided by a person with very different goals. Without that info (and Harry's quick thinking), Ron would be dead.
killian271
New member
teh_roy said:
Snape easily stopped any of harry's attacks because of snapes superior skill at occulemency, he read everything harry attempted to do and pre-empted the attack. Snape didnt really try anything more than to prevent harry from attacking him, though i dont really see that as a sign of the good still possible in him, but him obeying the order from the dark lord, that harry was his and to leave him alone. Before harry is to track down snape or voldemort, he definatley will have to learn how to keep snape from entering his thoughts.
TrubbaNot said:
I think the book (storyline) has matured in such a way that house points doesn't even play that important a role anymore. A re-focusing from something so mundane to that which really plays more importance in their "real" life and that has a graver consequences.
Recall that the hourglass thing that records the house points shattered, and noone seem to give any bother to it... other than the fact that it resembles blood, if I'm not mistaken. A really good sign, since the story seems to reflect the age of the main character.
killian27 said:
Occlumency is not "reading" of the mind, but rather the closing of the mind from the efforts to "read" it.
Legilimency, on the other hand, is the "reading" of the mind.
Just pointing the difference.
BTW, apparently, Snape is adept at both... it was clear at first that he is good at Occlumency alone in OotP, but when he repeatedly blocked HP's spells it shows that he is also a good Legilimens. Other than protecting himself, I think he is also trying to remind HP that Voldemort is good at Legilimency and must try to master Occlumency or both if he wants to stand a chance against Voldemort.
--maxgerin
jjscud
Active member
maxgerin said:
I've seen this multiple times now, and I gotta say I got a totally different impression. I don't think it was any mind tricks that Snap was using when Harry was attacking, I think Snape's just a dang good dueler, he even told Harry that Harry wouldn't have a chance as long as he could say the spells outloud. That wouldn't change anything if Snape was using Legilimency but it would if Snape was just doing a good job of anticipating the spells.
Of course I would really like to re-read all that to have a better idea but I lent my book to my sister
skunkbelly
New member
Here's something cool. In "Order of the Phoenix," when everyone is cleaning up the Black residence, one of the items they find is "a large locket that nobody could manage to open" (not an exact quote, but that's the gist of it). So it looks like the horcrux was there right under their noses, and the RAB is definitely Regulus Black. Cool 
skunkbelly said:Here's something cool. In "Order of the Phoenix," when everyone is cleaning up the Black residence, one of the items they find is "a large locket that nobody could manage to open" (not an exact quote, but that's the gist of it). So it looks like the horcrux was there right under their noses, and the RAB is definitely Regulus Black. Cool
Absolutely! I believe I remember something like that.
This entices me to read OotP again.
But could it be that Kreacher kept or stole it? Gave it even to Bella?
Or even Mandugus (sp?), since he was caught stealing Black's family's stuff.
--maxgerin
jjscud said:
I agree with JJScud 100% here. As much as I detest Snape, I believe that this was a lesson to Harry in disguise. This wasnt Legilimency at all, but Snape anticipating Harry's spells (since he had to say them outloud) and then blocking them.
He then told Harry that he would always be blocked until he could learn to cast without speaking.
Now, assuming that Dumbledore is dead, and Im not convinced of that, I believe that Snape was forced to kill Dumbledore to ensure that he didnt break the Unbreakable Curse that he gave to Narcissa. More likely, I think Dumbledore is actually still alive and this is all an elaborate Ruse.
Book 7 will be very interesting and this story has finally taken a turn outside of the norm. Harry starts with the Dursleys, goes to the Burrow, goes to school, studies, takes tests, defeats some evil, end of book. Now, that isnt going to happen again. Book 7 will be something new and Im rather enjoying that.
Sandrilene fa Toren
New member
The thing that stuck with me about the book was Dumbledore's exceptionally weak explanation of how Harry was meant to destroy Voldemort using the weapon of love. Maybe it's the fangirl coming out in me 
Also, I don't believe that Lily's love was strong enough for Harry to survive Avada Kedavra, the most powerful Dark Spell, cast by the most powerful Dark Wizard. Maybe in Book 7 things will get cleared up that way, since I'm pretty sure Lily wasn't the only mom who loved her son enough to die for him.
The potions textbook also brought out another necessary point, that Harry had, up until now, been caught in circumstances where the only actions he could take would be considered 'good' and 'right'. It shows that simply years with his peers and other non-Dursley's could not override the years he did spend fending for himself with the Dursley's. Given the opportunities (which will undoubtedly pop up in the seventh book), he may do some 'shocking' things.
Oh, and one last point. It turned out that Tonks was in love with Remus, but every time someone mentioned Sirius (most notably Harry in Hogwarts), she grew teary-eyed. She barely knew him (and the time she did see him did not show his best side)! Just as I don't believe Harry's actions are guided by love for his parents and love for the people Voldemort has wronged, I don't believe Tonks is crying over a cousin she didn't know she had (for most of her life, since Andromeda was disowned form marrying a Muggle) - perhaps there was something between Remus and Sirius (not matter how horrible they look in the movies - Alan Rickman and Tom Felton outstripped them magnificently). She's jealous.
Also, I don't believe that Lily's love was strong enough for Harry to survive Avada Kedavra, the most powerful Dark Spell, cast by the most powerful Dark Wizard. Maybe in Book 7 things will get cleared up that way, since I'm pretty sure Lily wasn't the only mom who loved her son enough to die for him. The potions textbook also brought out another necessary point, that Harry had, up until now, been caught in circumstances where the only actions he could take would be considered 'good' and 'right'. It shows that simply years with his peers and other non-Dursley's could not override the years he did spend fending for himself with the Dursley's. Given the opportunities (which will undoubtedly pop up in the seventh book), he may do some 'shocking' things.
Oh, and one last point. It turned out that Tonks was in love with Remus, but every time someone mentioned Sirius (most notably Harry in Hogwarts), she grew teary-eyed. She barely knew him (and the time she did see him did not show his best side)! Just as I don't believe Harry's actions are guided by love for his parents and love for the people Voldemort has wronged, I don't believe Tonks is crying over a cousin she didn't know she had (for most of her life, since Andromeda was disowned form marrying a Muggle) - perhaps there was something between Remus and Sirius (not matter how horrible they look in the movies - Alan Rickman and Tom Felton outstripped them magnificently). She's jealous.
Sandrilene fa Toren
New member
So why is Voldemort not killing or even attempting to kill Harry, then? This 'love' weapon is too vague.
JicamaEater
New member
Heh, Krem, everything worked out, but many thanks for the offer.
I do pretty much laugh at the notion that Snape killed Dumbledore so that he wouldn't die from the Unbreakable Vow. There's something odd going on on one end or the other, and I don't know what it is.
OotP is, I must say, my favorite book. Particularly after reading HBP and seeing the huge turnaround that happened in the plot in many ways. I will be disappointed if there aren't many (or any) school scenes in book seven as they are a large part of the fun of the books.
I do pretty much laugh at the notion that Snape killed Dumbledore so that he wouldn't die from the Unbreakable Vow. There's something odd going on on one end or the other, and I don't know what it is.
OotP is, I must say, my favorite book. Particularly after reading HBP and seeing the huge turnaround that happened in the plot in many ways. I will be disappointed if there aren't many (or any) school scenes in book seven as they are a large part of the fun of the books.
