New games suck, I'm back to D2

[Nightfish]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

@nebux:
All too true, although for me, Gothic died with Gothic 3.

@l-w:
yay, you mention some more of my favorites I keep replaying JA2 and the Witcher from time to time. Too bad they don't make games like JA2 anymore. Imo those don't work with the forced realisitc graphics as well as they did with the pixels. Tbh, none of the tactical games work as well if you can't tell where squares begin or end... Not that anyone had the patience for turn based tactical games anymore anyway

@potter
I'm pretty sure I already have a grail minus Tyrael's sitting around somewhere...

@mulligan:
Actually I have.

Divinity 2 (lowest settings) runs at 4-5 FPS on my machine, even though other, much better looking and newer games, run flawlessly. So I cannot really comment on that.

Two Worlds 2 is - imho - a perfect example of why modern games suck. It's huuuuuuuge but incredibly bland. The story is terrible, and a true victim of "you care because we said so". My goal is to rescue my sister? Even if I look back at Two Worlds 1, I cannot find a reason to care about her. Gameplay itself is incredibly uninspired as well. Simple button mashing wins 99% of the time. I don't think I died even once in the game, and I wasn't even trying.


@people suggesting crazy projects
Noes! To be honest, 7x7 was a bit too much for some chars already. Some just don't have 7 "decent" builds, others have 8 or 9.

Maybe I'll do some more serial gaming in D3, but we'll see how that turns out first...

@time-travelling
This might seem odd coming from me, but to be honest I never really got into D2 before 1.10, for various reasons. My interest was only really piqued when Blizzard released 1.10 and there were literally dozens of rage-threads here and everywhere about how this killed single-player because the game was much too hard now and nothing was "viable" (hate that word) anymore. ... Challenge accepted!

I dabbled in 1.07 a little bit, but it just couldn't hold my interest for some reason.

@jiansonz
Oi, Thief... I never played that before. I heard good things about it, though... Gotta check that one out.

 

[Serdash]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

In honor of Serdash...

tl;dr

I can handle this myself.

tl;dr

Also, noob should play Median XL. It's way more fun.

 

[maxicek]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Welcome back Nightfish! So any character plans for your return?

I think half the problem with new games is that, although the graphics have moved on, the gameplay just gets recycled. And one you have got past the "oh it's so pretty" stage, what keeps you playing is the gameplay, not graphics. One reason why I'm not holding my breath for D3.

I've been browsing the SP-MP forum as well and it seems there is sporadic interest in HC MP. I'll host a few games as I start fresh and untwinked and see if it catches on.

Cue hundreds of people starting to play HC just so they can say that they played with you.

I'll get the "I played Hardcore with Nightfish and lived" T-shirts printed.

 

[potter]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Throw in a few "I played Hardcore with Nightfish and got him killed!"

 

[Hammy]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Welcome back Nightfish!

Your guides and writeups have certainly been an inspiration to a lot of people, myself included.

I completely hear what you're saying about being spoonfed by games. Everquest was where it's at, but I find that I can't play it anymore (even though there are some free private servers running nearly flawlessly with classic content) simply because I don't have the nigh-unlimited time I did when I was 18.

Not sure if you own any gaming systems, but if you happen to have a Wii or a PSP, Monster Hunter might be worth a look. Anything that is a phenomenon in Japan, but didn't really take off in the US or Europe due to inaccessibility should be a win, right? Anyway, I enjoy it immensely. The challenge is most definitely there, and it has the grindy feeling and never-being-totally-finished aspect to keep a massochist busy for a good amount of hours.

Again, welcome back!


-Hammy


P.S. If you could revolutionize a MF Barbarian build on par with the Fishymancer or Fishyzon, that'd be stellar. You know, based around Double Swing and Grim Ward or something equally ridiculous... Thanks.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

I think half the problem with new games is that, although the graphics have moved on, the gameplay just gets recycled. And one you have got past the "oh it's so pretty" stage, what keeps you playing is the gameplay, not graphics. One reason why I'm not holding my breath for D3.

You know, I disagree with you there. At least somewhat. If the gameplay was indeed "recycled" I wouldn't have much of a problem. It's kinda like... let's see... chess maybe? That game is old as hell, but have you ever seen people complain about how gameplay is stale? Or take almost any kind of sports. Icehockey, Soccer, snooker, whatever. It's all virtually unchanged since forever. But people are still interested. Soccer doesn't need to be completely revolutionised each season. People that like it will continue to like it. Personally I find soccer to be boring as **** because the games always end 1:0 or 0:0 after 90 minutes but each to his own.

Similar things apply to gaming for me. I could be perfectly content playing Infinity Engine games for the rest of my life as long as the stories are good. Or I could be equally happy playing D3 on a D2 engine as long as there were decent new skills and items.

My problem is that gameplay keeps getting simplified and graphics keep getting "better". Although, to me, that "better" is highly debatable. I remember someone posting 4 screenshots of 4 First Person Shooters recently and he dared people to guess which game was which. Funny enough, neither screenshot was from any of the 4 shooters, it was from a 5th one. And they all looked the same. And I can see where he's coming from, really.

I can instantly tell whether a screenshot is from Zelda 3 or Final Fantasy 3. But is that Two Worlds 2, Divinity 2 or Elder Scrolls 4? Beats me. I much prefered "bad" but iconic graphics to the bland everything looks the same and kinda realistic crap we got going now. If I want something that's totally realistic I'll freaking go OUTSIDE.

This is a recurring theme in gaming and it pisses me off to no end. Graphics, gameplay, etc... Everything has to be realistic. Yes, of course. Back in the day when I played Super Mario Bros for the first time all I could think of was "damn, this might be a good game, IF ONLY IT WERE MORE REALISTIC". ... Wait, what? Mario is a plumber. Do I really want a realistic game about that? (No disrespect to plumbers, I applaud their hard work, but I do not think that this is a video game that needs making...)

In some games, too much realism in the graphics is even detrimental because it obscures information you need to win. Jagged Alliance would be a prime example of that. Any game based around squares or hexes, for that matter. Imho, heroes of might and magic suffers from that. I love heroes 3, but in heroes 4 and onwards, I can sometimes barely tell what stuff is because it all blends together. Is that decoration or something I can click on? Oh, sweet, the super realistic trees were hiding an item and I had to rotate the camera to find it... **** that...

Torchlight was another fine example of this. For the love of god, I couldn't tell what was going on the game was that full of effects and shaking screens. The skills were hella boring, too. With barely more than 2 active skills ever being necessary and bosses being either "extra strong" or "extra fast", as far as I remember. Once the novelty of it wore off, and that happened *real* fast, I tossed it in a corner and will never pick it up again.

I'll get the "I played Hardcore with Nightfish and lived" T-shirts printed.

So... playing HC with me is harder than playing HC without me? :badteeth: ... Actually, yea. I guess it is...


@Potter: ...are you planning something there?

@Hammy: Nah, I don't own any other gaming systems. Can't even say I own a SNES anymore since the RGB cable died (I think). But thank god for the zsnes emulator... Maybe I'm biased, but I doubt console games will bring me an out for my "games are too easy" problem. This is probably due to the fact that whenever a PC game get's "consolified", I massively resent the dumbing down that includes. (Hello ME2 and DA2!)

As for the wii... I despise motion tracking gaming. If I wanted to move I wouldn't be playing games for crying out loud. If I want a workout, I'll actually go work out. For me, games are for lazily lounging in a comfy chair.

As for the Barb... Uh... I don't think I can do that. Ya see, MF pretty much always occurs with +skills but almost never with %ED, IAS, CB or anything else a physical damage dealer will want. That alone probably means you cannot get a barb on par with a Necro, Zon, Sorc, Trapper or even an elemental druid. And ofc add the barb's lack of AOE... I could probably make a more efficient MF Pally based around Holy Shock and Holy Freeze than that...

 

[Kimppi]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Berserk barb with Howl is the hot stuff currently. Easy 500+mf, 50+% hork and very fast and safe runs howling minions away and killing the bosses. The best Pit runner in my opinion.

 

[Nightfish]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Berserk barb with Howl is the hot stuff currently. Easy 500+mf, 50+% hork and very fast and safe runs howling minions away and killing the bosses. The best Pit runner in my opinion.

Erm yea... I think I'll stick to my tried and true builds that killed the entire screen of stuff before the barb even swung once at the boss... :badteeth: Especially in HC you wouldn't want to randomly send everything running from howl and then try to rush through the Pit. Odds are that's gonna bite you in the *** sooner or later with mana burn or something like that. Especially since there's no need to do that as there are perfectly servicable builds that clear the level faster than you can pick out the raisins... Ofc you can MF like that, but I doubt very much it's anywhere near the top 5. I've done some MFing with my berserker and it's just not as good as other chars' builds.

 

[Greebo]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Well, while I know where you're coming from, I really do, the efficiency of these setups has changed since you've last played.

Mostly because of 1.13c. It made 'Grief' dirt-cheap. And that means that all those Barbs hit stuff very hard all of the sudden. Same applies to Pally, actually. Also, if you have 'Enigma', all those monsters that run away are not such a big deal. And with 1.13c 'Enigma' is not THAT hard to get...

 

[Nightfish]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

My zerker one shots everything with his upgraded ribby, too. No need for grief there, tbh. Still, zerk stays a single target spell, that puts a hard cap on how much you can kill in any given amount of time... I'm sticking with AOE stuff for MFing.

 

[Kimppi]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Erm yea... I think I'll stick to my tried and true builds that killed the entire screen of stuff before the barb even swung once at the boss... :badteeth: Especially in HC you wouldn't want to randomly send everything running from howl and then try to rush through the Pit. Odds are that's gonna bite you in the *** sooner or later with mana burn or something like that. Especially since there's no need to do that as there are perfectly servicable builds that clear the level faster than you can pick out the raisins... Ofc you can MF like that, but I doubt very much it's anywhere near the top 5. I've done some MFing with my berserker and it's just not as good as other chars' builds.

I will confess that I wouldn't bother trying to magic find with it without Enigma. Teleport changes things completely though and the fact that Berserk is a single-target attack doesn't matter anymore because you will be hitting just the bosses and horking them. You can easily go through the Pit in under 90 seconds with him.

Yes, you won't get any stuff from the random monsters but he's great when going for the rarest items.

Spoiler

A couple of runs, MF 563/598

[YOUTUBE]8IJuPaZRuMA[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Nightfish]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

I will confess that I wouldn't bother trying to magic find with it without Enigma.

...

Yes, you won't get any stuff from the random monsters but he's great when going for the rarest items.

What I write is aimed at people that don't have all the uber loot already. I doubt I will ever get out of that mindset.

As for the random stuff. Well, personally I always optimised my runs to get as much done at the same time as possible. Like, I don't spend 70 hours MF everything Hell Meph can give me and THEN graduate to alvl85 and Baal, only to find most of the hell meph stuff again.

Similarily, I never had to run areas on P8 to get an eth base item for something or an archon plate with 620 def. I got all of that as a byproduct of my regular MF runs. Sure, maybe my average run time is 10 seconds behind the top. But I'm happy with my results and I always got the most out of my time. Plus, the areas (the WS K, namely) I ran were actually *fun* to run. Which is what matters the most to me personally.

It's probably a different kind of philosophy. Instead of trying to get ONLY uniques or ONLY runes or ONLY grey/white items or ONLY gems or ONLY charms I try to find a middle ground and have decent odds of getting everything. That way I have little "successes" more often because i pretty much always find *something* I can use.

 

[Kimppi]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

What I write is aimed at people that don't have all the uber loot already. I doubt I will ever get out of that mindset.

Of course, in that case what I said can be disregarded. Hammy asked for a MF barb, might have been untwinked or not, and I mentioned the Tele-Zerker since it really shines when going against unique monsters.

As for the random stuff. Well, personally I always optimised my runs to get as much done at the same time as possible. Like, I don't spend 70 hours MF everything Hell Meph can give me and THEN graduate to alvl85 and Baal, only to find most of the hell meph stuff again.

Similarily, I never had to run areas on P8 to get an eth base item for something or an archon plate with 620 def. I got all of that as a byproduct of my regular MF runs. Sure, maybe my average run time is 10 seconds behind the top. But I'm happy with my results and I always got the most out of my time. Plus, the areas (the WS K, namely) I ran were actually *fun* to run. Which is what matters the most to me personally.

Yes, this is a great way to collect wealth. At some point you will probably have to start optimizing a bit to aim at the specific groups if you happen to care about the grail etc. and want to finish it someday.

It's probably a different kind of philosophy. Instead of trying to get ONLY uniques or ONLY runes or ONLY grey/white items or ONLY gems or ONLY charms I try to find a middle ground and have decent odds of getting everything. That way I have little "successes" more often because i pretty much always find *something* I can use.

Yeah, I'm at the point that I don't really care much for other stuff than the couple of uniques I'm missing. My other interest is getting to 99 and I try to pick gems, jewels and charms in the progress. That will stop too at 98 when it's not worthwhile to hit the random uniques anymore.

 

[isengart1]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Welcome back Mr. Fish!
I also found my way back here some months ago and started out all new again, as I had 2 HDD crashes almost at the same time and lost all my characters and stashes. But that's another thing I like about LOD: The game grants you some things soon and the greed about collecting stuff gets stronger with each item you find. :crazyeyes:

Planescape Torment is also the best game I have played so far. - At least concerning the story. I lmao about this pregnant wall...
I liked the IWD games for their engine but the story was rather lame and the game was more or less a sequece of linear quests.

Baldur's Gate had a very good story and a nice engine too, I liked it, but it was very epical and I had long times in between my of interest for the game.

Where about in Europe do you live btw? I have no idea why, but I kept thinking you were American. :scratchchin:

So all the best from good old Austria to wherever you are in Europe and have some fun again over here! :thumbup:

 

[Serdash]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Sure, maybe my average run time is 10 seconds behind the top.

TEN SECONDS!? But... over all the runs you do, those 10 seconds add up to hours and minutes! NIGHTFISH YOU HAVE NO IDEA! mg:

 

[Nightfish]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Yes, this is a great way to collect wealth. At some point you will probably have to start optimizing a bit to aim at the specific groups if you happen to care about the grail etc. and want to finish it someday.

Funny enough, doing it the way I did it got me to within 15-ish items of a HC grail and that was plenty to equip my 50+ chars. Beyond that I don't really need items.

I would probably have finished the grail if Tyrael's wasn't so frickin' rare. I don't really care enough to sink the time required for that into the game.

I guess it all depends on your focus. For me, building wealth from scratch is more interesting than getting the last 3 items that I'm missing.

I liked the IWD games for their engine but the story was rather lame and the game was more or less a sequece of linear quests.

True enough. IWD was pretty bad, compared to other IE games. Baldur's Gate 1 was pretty bad as well.

Where about in Europe do you live btw? I have no idea why, but I kept thinking you were American. :scratchchin:

Germany, actually. But yea, I get mistaken for an American all the time on forums. I wonder why, it's not like I invaded any countries recently...

 

[Doppel]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Big ups to all the "Tormented" people here. That game is unparallelled on so many levels.
I do wish it had a slighlty better combat though.

Also, Arcanum ya'll. I heard it had fanupgraded res pack or something. Definately worth a try if you haven't already imo.

And Fallout 1&2. I think i'm going to make a party using nothing but Powerfists next time i play it.

 

[Pijus1]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

Ha, Arcanum! I'm generally not into the older RPG games(yet), but I loved Arcanum, for it let me play as a half-ogre with 4 intelligence who could barely make a sentence. Talking to NPCs was priceless.

I tried Torment but I got killed so much at the start that I lost hope of ever getting out of the start areas.

Also, welcome back Nightfish. Summonable meat shields were never the same after reading your writeups.

 

[RobbyD]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

...it's not like I invaded any countries recently...

Neither have I.

 

[lone_wolf]

Re: New games suck, I'm back to D2

damnit people why do you forget that there was 3 fallout games long before Fallout 3 was released?

Seriously am i the only person on these boards that still have fallout tactics and love it for its damn fine challenge?

Also nightfish the Thief games are amazing you should really try them out. Another great game is Deus Ex.

As for Consoles the only game that keep me from losing all hope for console gaming is demon souls and its upcoming sequel dark souls.

I mean when was the last time a game was released on consoles that carter to hardcore players?

I love it i also love that i have died over 20 times on my level 53 character. That might sound high if you look at the max level of 60 in diablo 3 but no its so far away from high level in this game its funny.

With a max level of 712 i know i will play demon souls for quite some time:yes:

The witcher 2 will come out, BF3 will come out, guild wars 2 will come out tera will come out. Deus Ex human revolution will come out.

So there is still hope for gaming after all(i am sure i missed some other promising stuff)