Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
He edited it a few times already, but still miss the point. Oh well...
He edited it a few times already, but still miss the point. Oh well...
Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-ing!
- Thread starter callsignapollo
- Start date
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
actually... surprisingly... looking through these pages not all that much *edit worthy stuff speaks to me
alot of what has been posted is about whether the guide should be tried or not etc.. almost nothing comment-wise is worthy of going into the build as an actual change; don't get me wrong there is alot of constructive feedback hidden in this thread but I don't find all of those suggestions compelling
on this note, i do think a few changes could be made to the guide, the biggest being an alternative merc. loadout using an a5 merc
i'm not being closedminded about critique it's just that most of the critique has focused on how other builds might be more efficient or more fun to play etc... and i'm not adding any of that to the guide obviously.
if someone of you could suggest some optimal equipment loadouts for an a5 merc to be used in this build i would take from them and possibly edit the guide to include those suggestions as a section, i would also like to edit a few other minor things but in general i consider the guide fairly complete/comprehensive
but as i said, a5 merc items suggestions would be welcome, but please make them well thought out; try not to just suggest a single item... suggest a whole set of items for the merc to wear and what stats to look for when procuring those items.... maybe explain how the items work together, why you chose them over other items, and why you think your item suggestions might be the best ones for this build
if any of you could do that it would be super cool !
-Callsign
actually... surprisingly... looking through these pages not all that much *edit worthy stuff speaks to me
alot of what has been posted is about whether the guide should be tried or not etc.. almost nothing comment-wise is worthy of going into the build as an actual change; don't get me wrong there is alot of constructive feedback hidden in this thread but I don't find all of those suggestions compelling
on this note, i do think a few changes could be made to the guide, the biggest being an alternative merc. loadout using an a5 merc
i'm not being closedminded about critique it's just that most of the critique has focused on how other builds might be more efficient or more fun to play etc... and i'm not adding any of that to the guide obviously.
if someone of you could suggest some optimal equipment loadouts for an a5 merc to be used in this build i would take from them and possibly edit the guide to include those suggestions as a section, i would also like to edit a few other minor things but in general i consider the guide fairly complete/comprehensive
but as i said, a5 merc items suggestions would be welcome, but please make them well thought out; try not to just suggest a single item... suggest a whole set of items for the merc to wear and what stats to look for when procuring those items.... maybe explain how the items work together, why you chose them over other items, and why you think your item suggestions might be the best ones for this build
if any of you could do that it would be super cool !
-Callsign
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
the2bbe, yes you can use that weapon with your merc but it doesn't have as much crushing blow as I would recommend
the2bbe, yes you can use that weapon with your merc but it doesn't have as much crushing blow as I would recommend
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
dang, it was sinking back to the third page and you just had to bump it didn't you.
dang, it was sinking back to the third page and you just had to bump it didn't you.
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Ok, this is one hell of a thread.
My 2 cents, if i could afford two isted swords and i would built a barb around horking corpses then it doesn't at all make sense to run act bosses. What i would want to do instead is run highlevel areas packed full with enemies, say ancient tunnels, by the use of a fast and effective and mass killing skill, for example whirlwind or frenzy, then switching to the two isted swords to hork all the corpses. What i want to know is, i'm assuming the speed of horking corpses is depending on FCR (correct me if i'm wrong) so i think it would be much more original and unique and profitable if the build would revolve around a) mowing down enemies in certain or all highlevel areas extremely fast with good mf and b) horking corpses extremely fast with really good mf. (and i'm in doubt two isted swords would then be the optimal choice)
Ok, this is one hell of a thread.
My 2 cents, if i could afford two isted swords and i would built a barb around horking corpses then it doesn't at all make sense to run act bosses. What i would want to do instead is run highlevel areas packed full with enemies, say ancient tunnels, by the use of a fast and effective and mass killing skill, for example whirlwind or frenzy, then switching to the two isted swords to hork all the corpses. What i want to know is, i'm assuming the speed of horking corpses is depending on FCR (correct me if i'm wrong) so i think it would be much more original and unique and profitable if the build would revolve around a) mowing down enemies in certain or all highlevel areas extremely fast with good mf and b) horking corpses extremely fast with really good mf. (and i'm in doubt two isted swords would then be the optimal choice)
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
My (and shanksie's) only issue with this guide is choice of the word optimal. You admit readily that this is an expensive guide and as such I don't think it will ever be optimal.
Our point (and I believe many others) is that an optimal build (for mf) should be one that can take you from rich to poor quickly (and thus not be expensive). Your build is essentially "an expensive build for [highlight] maximum [/highlight] mf". I think if you made this change people would stop coming here and complaining/flaming your guide.
Gah sorry to reply to myself, but:
"An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-ing!" - is an oxymoron
And as such, your replies to criticism such as "it's all explained in the thread / guide / title" simply fail to the same lack of logic.
Check the definition of the word optimal
Optimal: most desirable possible under a restriction expressed or implied.
So in the case of mf'ing, optimality would have to be a function of:
- mf total
- killing speed
- cost
- TC farmed (expected gains)
i think the word you should have used would be:
Maximum
My (and shanksie's) only issue with this guide is choice of the word optimal. You admit readily that this is an expensive guide and as such I don't think it will ever be optimal.
Our point (and I believe many others) is that an optimal build (for mf) should be one that can take you from rich to poor quickly (and thus not be expensive). Your build is essentially "an expensive build for [highlight] maximum [/highlight] mf". I think if you made this change people would stop coming here and complaining/flaming your guide.
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
you're right, i think maximum or something to that effect is the right term; however i CAN'T say "maximum" because it isn't "maximum mf% technically... which is why i called it optimal in the first place...
i'm at a loss...
-Callsign
you're right, i think maximum or something to that effect is the right term; however i CAN'T say "maximum" because it isn't "maximum mf% technically... which is why i called it optimal in the first place...
i'm at a loss...
-Callsign
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Just returned to D2, i had fond memories of this thread, and that my friend is the most accurate and imba typo ever
assuming ofc that you meant "poor to rich"
Just returned to D2, i had fond memories of this thread, and that my friend is the most accurate and imba typo ever
assuming ofc that you meant "poor to rich"
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
Well, the OP has been banned and this thread should have stayed buried imo. But w/e welcome back.
Well, the OP has been banned and this thread should have stayed buried imo. But w/e welcome back.
Re: Magic Finding Barbarian: THE TYRANNICIDES: v3* An Expensive Build for Optimal MF-
1. Exceeding 400-500% MF at the cost of efficacy is madness, given the concept of diminishing returns. It's intriguing how you mention diminishing returns (in a context where it is clearly illustrated that you DO in fact understand it) and then completely refute it (by making this build?).
2. By the time you acquire the wealth required for completing this build, the ladder economy will be at a point (assuming you don't ebay) where whatever Mephisto has to offer no longer has any substantial value. The desirable items at this stage are not concerned with astronomical MF values, and they aren't exclusively dropped by bosses. I am of course referring to charms/rares/socketed items.
3. Given the wealth required for this build, I think it's fair to have expectations in terms of efficacy and versatility. I understand this character is very much capable of dealing with single targets, but not so well with large groups of mobs. This fact does not justify the costs of the build, I think. This is relevant to point 2 as well. By the way, optimal?
4. Let's be real here for a second, MFing is boring (unless you perhaps have a autistic disposition). Also, a MF character has a defined purpose. So why pursue a build that offers lesser utility and efficiency and also is ridiculously expensive? This point can be disregarded if you find watching your mercenary doing all the job particularly exciting, which I personally find unlikely. With this in mind, I don't see the "being different"-argument holding much ground here. MFing is still boring.
5. There are cheaper and more effective character builds for the purposes outlined in the guide. This ties to point 2,3 and 4.
What is beyond me is how this guide managed to reach version 3 without you realizing the obvious flaws. Lastly, I'd like to say that I appreciate the effort you put into this guide. It is indeed impressive. But what is perhaps more impressive is how wasted that effort was, all things considered.
Then again, this thread provides as massive body of valid arguments against your case and you seem to be hopelessly reluctant to be receptive, so what does that say about my effort? Haha
Edit: I just realized the OP is banned. Haha, this further strengthens my last words.
1. Exceeding 400-500% MF at the cost of efficacy is madness, given the concept of diminishing returns. It's intriguing how you mention diminishing returns (in a context where it is clearly illustrated that you DO in fact understand it) and then completely refute it (by making this build?).
2. By the time you acquire the wealth required for completing this build, the ladder economy will be at a point (assuming you don't ebay) where whatever Mephisto has to offer no longer has any substantial value. The desirable items at this stage are not concerned with astronomical MF values, and they aren't exclusively dropped by bosses. I am of course referring to charms/rares/socketed items.
3. Given the wealth required for this build, I think it's fair to have expectations in terms of efficacy and versatility. I understand this character is very much capable of dealing with single targets, but not so well with large groups of mobs. This fact does not justify the costs of the build, I think. This is relevant to point 2 as well. By the way, optimal?
4. Let's be real here for a second, MFing is boring (unless you perhaps have a autistic disposition). Also, a MF character has a defined purpose. So why pursue a build that offers lesser utility and efficiency and also is ridiculously expensive? This point can be disregarded if you find watching your mercenary doing all the job particularly exciting, which I personally find unlikely. With this in mind, I don't see the "being different"-argument holding much ground here. MFing is still boring.
5. There are cheaper and more effective character builds for the purposes outlined in the guide. This ties to point 2,3 and 4.
What is beyond me is how this guide managed to reach version 3 without you realizing the obvious flaws. Lastly, I'd like to say that I appreciate the effort you put into this guide. It is indeed impressive. But what is perhaps more impressive is how wasted that effort was, all things considered.
Then again, this thread provides as massive body of valid arguments against your case and you seem to be hopelessly reluctant to be receptive, so what does that say about my effort? Haha
Edit: I just realized the OP is banned. Haha, this further strengthens my last words.
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I was on youtube today and this youtube guide popped up
I am guessing it is the same guy? The build looks very similar and as I suspected it is terrible. Takes forever to kill Mephisto.
Anyway brought back fond memories lol
I am guessing it is the same guy? The build looks very similar and as I suspected it is terrible. Takes forever to kill Mephisto.
Anyway brought back fond memories lol
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