Liberator // Vanquisher vs All comparison

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A few notes;

Charge is classified as melee because it is an offensive skill that requires attackrating {smite does not need ar to cause damage, thuse like charged strike, smite is not melee}.

The charge bug generaly happens when one switches from charge to another swinging type skill. IIRC while playing my libby for a few months, he rarely got locked into charge lock. I think Lovely made a note about this in his guide.

In my opinion, libby > vanq. A vanq has to be way too close, and it would be easier for a libby to murder a wind druid {the main character class i had problems with} than it would be for a vanq.
 
MrGoth said:
A few notes;

Charge is classified as melee because it is an offensive skill that requires attackrating {smite does not need ar to cause damage, thuse like charged strike, smite is not melee}.
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This is your d2 definition of melee but not the good old Websters dictionary version which it should be defined as in my opinion.

MrGoth said:
The charge bug generaly happens when one switches from charge to another swinging type skill. IIRC while playing my libby for a few months, he rarely got locked into charge lock. I think Lovely made a note about this in his guide.
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Charge lock happens in various situation not generally using the weapon switch. An example is missing a charge,hit an obstacle during charge .ie puddle,house,wall etc etc.

MrGoth said:
In my opinion, libby > vanq. A vanq has to be way too close, and it would be easier for a libby to murder a wind druid {the main character class i had problems with} than it would be for a vanq.
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Oh and Liberator doesn't have to be close for charge to hit? A vanquisher with grief now not only has crazy smite damage but also decent charge damage as well.
 
this_barb said:
you could say the same about a liberator with grief. zzz. and in any case. a good hammerdin > good smiter any day.
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Not really if the Liberator just goes for base holyshield and base smite compared to a max holyshield and remaining points in smite of a vanquisher.
 
i got tired of zealots , so i regeared my liberator the other day.

its a huge amount of "fun" to play with it. i took some of hand's advice and used combats, But i didn't go full out combats, i used 5 and then 5 sharp gc of vita. this gave me 10k hammers with 14k charge @34% Ds. Not too shabby.

Thx hand for the suggestion. Im always open to constructive crit.

anyways. yes libeators can win against anything, its true.

trappers, no problem

What i did to fight em i got. 70%resist Lo Kiras +T.gods+1whisp+30 maras+Um Hoz and this gave me 90% resist stacked, no trapper hurt me what so ever.

Now what happened before was i didn't have any charge damage, or could not switch weapons ( ie: hoto / Botd) Now i have this steup on my charge side, and the kiras Lo takes the place of my hoto or wizardspike. So...you recieve the same resist, but dont have to worry about switching. Neat huh?

Totals i have now @lvl91

Hammer Damage on Hammer Switch 10k
Hammer Damage on Charge Switch 8.6k
Charge Damage with Botd Zerk 14k @34%ds (vs melee)
Charge Damage with BOtd War Pike 28k @34%ds (vs necros)
Life: 2665 (no bo, no oaksage)
Charge Ar : 13k
Defense: 10k

So to answer your question, YES the liberator is very good if you can control it. it has a high learning curve for the hotkeys and what to do in certain situations.

The only thing i have problems with sometimes is wind druids and the summon bone necros..(although i do kill alot of em. there are some who are Smart)
 
LovelyGods said:
i got tired of zealots , so i regeared my liberator the other day.

its a huge amount of "fun" to play with it. i took some of hand's advice and used combats, But i didn't go full out combats, i used 5 and then 5 sharp gc of vita. this gave me 10k hammers with 14k charge @34% Ds. Not too shabby.

Thx hand for the suggestion. Im always open to constructive crit.

anyways. yes libeators can win against anything, its true.

trappers, no problem

What i did to fight em i got. 70%resist Lo Kiras +T.gods+1whisp+30 maras+Um Hoz and this gave me 90% resist stacked, no trapper hurt me what so ever.

Now what happened before was i didn't have any charge damage, or could not switch weapons ( ie: hoto / Botd) Now i have this steup on my charge side, and the kiras Lo takes the place of my hoto or wizardspike. So...you recieve the same resist, but dont have to worry about switching. Neat huh?

Totals i have now @lvl91

Hammer Damage on Hammer Switch 10k
Hammer Damage on Charge Switch 8.6k
Charge Damage with Botd Zerk 14k @34%ds (vs melee)
Charge Damage with BOtd War Pike 28k @34%ds (vs necros)
Life: 2665 (no bo, no oaksage)
Charge Ar : 13k
Defense: 10k

So to answer your question, YES the liberator is very good if you can control it. it has a high learning curve for the hotkeys and what to do in certain situations.

The only thing i have problems with sometimes is wind druids and the summon bone necros..(although i do kill alot of em. there are some who are Smart)
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I suggest Lovely that you try to get a Grief Beserker axe for your Liberator when ladder merges so you can get about 14k-14k charge damage. :D

When ladder merges I'm going to revisit my NL liberator since he has enough strength to wear a Archon Plate fortitude. This way I can have 75%FCR on charge switch which is great so I can have CTA on switch. I think this might be a better gear then my present Liberator has.
 
HandofElysium said:
I suggest Lovely that you try to get a Grief Beserker axe for your Liberator when ladder merges so you can get about 14k-14k charge damage. :D

When ladder merges I'm going to revisit my NL liberator since he has enough strength to wear a Archon Plate fortitude. This way I can have 75%FCR on charge switch which is great so I can have CTA on switch. I think this might be a better gear then my present Liberator has.
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wind druids... ez
necros... ez

the learning curve is hard. but its not something a beginner would have trouble maintaining and understanding. the best way to learn how to use the liberator is to start small and get comfortable with 1 skill, either charge or hammers. figure out its features, figure out hows its effective and ineffective, then slowly add on the other skill they have. eventually they'll be able to use both effectively together.

also for you to get 8000 smite (assuming base level smite and level 30 holy shield) would take 1500% ED
 
this_barb said:
wind druids... ez
necros... ez

the learning curve is hard. but its not something a beginner would have trouble maintaining and understanding. the best way to learn how to use the liberator is to start small and get comfortable with 1 skill, either charge or hammers. figure out its features, figure out hows its effective and ineffective, then slowly add on the other skill they have. eventually they'll be able to use both effectively together.

also for you to get 8000 smite (assuming base level smite and level 30 holy shield) would take 1500% ED
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Where you getting this calculation from?

Edit:

Actually re did the calculation cause I max fan by accident. The damage is basicaly the same.

I wouldn't say necros are ez and druids are ez either. Competent ones will still destroy a Liberator most of the time.
 
While fortitude is a neat idea for a libreator, mine wont be able to use it unless i re-did it.

Grief on the other hand is one weapon i wish i had. i have a fortitude balrog but thats for my zealot. it has like 165 str req. But BOtd still might be good, it adds to life too. if i didn't use botd i would have 2400 with it i have 2600+

Acutally i would have a Grief war Spike but i dont have Lo Mal on ladder.
 
this_barb said:
If a necromancer plays this defensively, then you have to switch your style as well. Desync charging with vigor always works. the point of charge is not to kill the person directly but push him out of his stack so your hammers will not have to go through 15 of his minions before hitting him.
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Hammers always pierce the necro's minions. So if you are extremely good with namelocking, then you can just go after the necro immediately without having to get rid of his minions first. In general, it is hard to namelock the necro if he has lots of minions on him, and one mistake namelocking one of his minions will cost you an ear.
 
LovelyGods said:
While fortitude is a neat idea for a libreator, mine wont be able to use it unless i re-did it.

Grief on the other hand is one weapon i wish i had. i have a fortitude balrog but thats for my zealot. it has like 165 str req. But BOtd still might be good, it adds to life too. if i didn't use botd i would have 2400 with it i have 2600+

Acutally i would have a Grief war Spike but i dont have Lo Mal on ladder.
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grief is so nice you wouldnt even miss that botd.
 
its true necros and windies have a significant advantage over liberators. but they do come easy. the typical pub necro is really easy. nothing more than a spamming sorc with unresistable damage. the ones you meet in private duels that have 125% fcr and know how to use bone wall effectively can be hard. it all comes down to skill. both sides are rather equal. using ibh effectively works well also.
 
I've decided to go with the liberator.

regarding liberators, the next argument seems to be with holyshield vs blessed aim. How much does loading up on blessed aim really help the ar. Im not concerned about its bonus to hammers. I'm thinking it may be more helpfull to have the points in holy shield.

It seems that everyone leens toward boosting blessed aim. Anyone pump holyShield instead?
 
i put lvl 1 holyshield in my libby.

Why?

Because since you have hammers, any melee that comes near you will surely suffer being hit.

When you charge ur block / def drop anyhow. not point in a higher defense, if your not going to use it.

Hammers are all the defense you need.

The idea is to "not get hit" , you arn't a tank, you are a liberator and thus use your hammer to fullest extent, with charge a awesome secondary.
 
LovelyGods said:
i put lvl 1 holyshield in my libby.

Why?

Because since you have hammers, any melee that comes near you will surely suffer being hit.

When you charge ur block / def drop anyhow. not point in a higher defense, if your not going to use it.

Hammers are all the defense you need.

The idea is to "not get hit" , you arn't a tank, you are a liberator and thus use your hammer to fullest extent, with charge a awesome secondary.
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This is where we disagree because holyshield is a valuable skill epecially if you have combats. Holyshield does 3 valuable things all in one skill. Increase in defense,increase chance of block ,increase base smite damage.

If a melee build is good enough with good skill the hammerdin will get hit and it hurt if you don't have full DR as well.

I believe that a hammerdin shouldn't be hit but he if does it should be with minimum damage.

Now with the new runewords fortitude and grief makes me wonder about how I want to play a Liberator now.

Just these two runewords alone a Liberator can be much more aggressive in game play because there is no weapon switch involved. I can't wait to try it on my Liberator when ladder merges.
 
i agree that we disagree.


But also about fortitude. im not sure if thats the best option for a liberator.

things to take note..

1. charge damage. after 12k damage, it goes up very very slowly. ie: a 40% ed jewel wont add 1k damage. 300%ed will add about 1.5k damage, which isn't enough if you ask me to try to build around fort.

Formulia: 40% ed adds 200 damage approx. 300%/40% = 7.5. 7.5x200 = 1.5k.

Therfore to think that fort will add alot to charge wont happen if you already have over 10-12k+ damage. although if you have low damage charge this WILL help alot.

2. Fort does have Fcr and Light resist max, which is a bonus, also adds life...but the drawbacks are enough for me to not want to use it. you will have to invest a lot into str inorder to accomadate for other items. With enigma you save alot of str points which in the long run will enable you to have more versaiality and more life (saved stat points go into vita instead of strength)

3. Although it could be nice option to consider for a liberator, another good option is a Spirit Pala Shield. Adds FcR and resist , mana , life , skills. Seems good to me. maybe not for a charge shield, but on your cast switch...godly.

There are alot of things to consider about fortitude, grief, death , spirit which i do not have any answers to. At this point, im un-decided on these particular items. yes, no , maybe....once ladder xfers over, i'll have a better chance to figure out what works, what doesn't.
 
LovelyGods said:
i agree that we disagree.


But also about fortitude. im not sure if thats the best option for a liberator.

things to take note..

1. charge damage. after 12k damage, it goes up very very slowly. ie: a 40% ed jewel wont add 1k damage. 300%ed will add about 1.5k damage, which isn't enough if you ask me to try to build around fort.

Formulia: 40% ed adds 200 damage approx. 300%/40% = 7.5. 7.5x200 = 1.5k.

Therfore to think that fort will add alot to charge wont happen if you already have over 10-12k+ damage. although if you have low damage charge this WILL help alot.

2. Fort does have Fcr and Light resist max, which is a bonus, also adds life...but the drawbacks are enough for me to not want to use it. you will have to invest a lot into str inorder to accomadate for other items. With enigma you save alot of str points which in the long run will enable you to have more versaiality and more life (saved stat points go into vita instead of strength)

3. Although it could be nice option to consider for a liberator, another good option is a Spirit Pala Shield. Adds FcR and resist , mana , life , skills. Seems good to me. maybe not for a charge shield, but on your cast switch...godly.

There are alot of things to consider about fortitude, grief, death , spirit which i do not have any answers to. At this point, im un-decided on these particular items. yes, no , maybe....once ladder xfers over, i'll have a better chance to figure out what works, what doesn't.
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It's a trade off of versatility over life. I like fortitude/grief for the fact that I can basically have 75% fcr on my charge switch. This gives me the threat of charge or hammer at any time with no delay. This also gives a CTA and Spirit switch for public duels which most people here do anyway. You don't have to go visit your stash just to get BO then put your charge switch back.
 
Also consider that i do not have maxed holyshield. Thus the more life helps me more.

i currently have 2.698 no bo no oak. If i got more sharp sc's (legit of course) i wouuld have 2.8k easily. With lower defense this helps out alot.

my ultimate goal is 3k with no bo...
 
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