Justification for cheating?

[Lord Chaos]

I understand, it's just these endless MH threads sometimes annoy me. I can understand your point of view but I'm against cheating and I consider MH as cheating, for reasons stated many times before. Sometimes I'm getting just tired off all the people trying to justify why they use it. In the end there is no real justification. My anger was not directed at you personally, sorry if it seemed so.

If they annoy you, why participate?

I've never said using maphack isn't cheating, and it is not justificiations. As said in the earlier thread, some of the features would be better off added to the game itself or maphack actually taken under the wing of Blizzard, thats just MY opinion.

And PLEASE don't come with the shortsighted "its how the game is, and therefor its perfect", if the game and blizzard was perfect, we would not be on patch 1.10, we would still be way back at the beginning of LOD, things change, new things get added...But also as said, I doubt Blizzard will do so, as they have stated that they will not make anymore major patches after 1.10.

 

[wedoz]

fishing behind a moving boat. yes

 

[Raena]

You're confusing me Lord Chaos. You've made it clear that you're using maphack and then you say this:

1. How funny you would label me as a cheater, when I have repeatedly stated that I do not cheat.

By reading that you have me thinking that you don't consider maphack cheating, but then you say the folowing:

I've never said using maphack isn't cheating

So you DO think maphack is cheating. But if maphack is cheating and you're using maphack how can it be that you claim that you're not cheating?
:scratch:
Please correct me if I misunderstood you're words.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I'll gladly correct them. Maphack is "cheat", but since I have not used maphack at all since ladder came out, I can't really be said to be a cheater right now and especially not on ladder.

 

[Dredd]

Playing Diablo with a cheater is the same as playing monopoly with a cheater. Except in monopoly I can say noob and punch the bastard in the face.

:lol: Five star post right there.

That's really what it all boils down to. The only reason Maphackers (or any cheaters for that matter) can get away with it is because I can't reach over and throttle them. Hell, I can't even flip 'em the bird a quarter inch from their faces.

since I have not used maphack at all since ladder came out, I can't really be said to be a cheater right now and especially not on ladder.

Since you're defending its usage, you're fair game. Considering the tone and content of your posts throughout this thread, I would hardly look at you as a "reformed" maphacker. If you feel as though you've become our official whipping boy, I'm sorry. But you realize you are posting at purediablo.com and not Mousepad's board or ************. [EDIT: other board is a very evil one. I'm glad it's censored out ]

The majority of people who come to read and post on these boards are looking to escape from cheaters not find them. That's why these Maphack threads always turn into poop. It is a cheat, plain and simple. Cheats suck. Cheats should be eliminated from Closed BNet. People who use cheats on Closed BNet should be banned. When cheaters buy a new copy of the game and resume their cheating they should be banned again.

I'll gladly correct them. Maphack is "cheat"

Now that we've finally established that, reread my last paragraph. Now you should understand why this entire debate is never going to amount to anything.

If you want to carry on this discussion on a less legit board, I'm sure you will find plenty of sympathy for your arguments. Not here though, though perhaps another day.

Personally, I'm shocked at how civil this thread has remained. This is far from the most venomous Maphack thread I've seen in my time as a lurker here.

 

[wedoz]

Personally, I'm shocked at how civil this thread has remained.

die n00b!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jak]

then why the hell do you seek info here if it gives you no advantages in the game at all?...you're telling me that MF guides, build guides, mlvl/ilvl guides, pit guides, gives no advantages in the game?...damn the writers must feel really stupid now to have written something that noone can use.

You have effectively stated:

1) Maphack is cheating (a little, white cheat)
2) Reading guides and faqs is cheating (again a small cheat)

Using your logic in a chess analogy:

1) Moving pieces when your opponent isn't looking is a cheat
2) Reading strategy guides and deconstructions of games of chess is a cheat. One that gives an unfair advantage to those who take the time to read them. I'm sure Kasparov would be turning in his grave (were he dead right now)

Now, we've all agreed that the number '1's are both cheating. But how is doing research into a game also considered cheating? You have not yet adequately explained that logic.

 

[Borlag]

hmm Lord Chaos, I seem to recall some boxes being sold with the official hint book made by Blizzard themselves. So if that information is cheating to you, or an unfair advantage since not everyone has it by default when they buy the game, doesn't that make Blizzard enforcers of cheating? And on the same logic, using resources provided to you by Blizzard through the official website and it's forums is also cheating?

I think not...

I think this is just a real twisted reasoning you have here, seems that you're trying to troll with just about every excuse you can think of. I wish you run out of those and start posting normally again (yes, I've seen you post some reasonable posts also).

 

[tl998]

wow! it's really interesting to see people get so worked up about this stuff. who cares! it revals the map, once you do an area for the first time with a character the map should be revealed anyway. Just like it is in single player. Role play a little here. you're a barb, you travel through an area then you go to bed (ie. save and exit) but when you come back the next day the area you traveled the day before is totally different, the exit's or stairs are no longer in the same place!!! Buildings have moved hundreds of yards from where they were the day before. The monistery that used to be south of the cold plains is now North!! stop the insanity!!
I don't agree with hacks or dupes for obvious reasons, but revealing the map .. come on! "oh .. but it gives and unfair advantage, cause the maphackers can do mf runs faster then thoes who dont map hack, which means they get more great items!" why do you care, you're not gonna trade with thoes cheating hackers anyway.
And as far as unfair advantages go, that is bull***t! everyone who plays this game has unfair advantages over others, younger people who are still in school have more time to play than older people with jobs and families, however older people with jobs and famlies have more income and credit cards etc. so they can buy maphack. It all even's out in the end.
But anyway, really the point here is "who cares!" play the game the way you enjoy it! if you want to break the eula .. go right ahead, do whatever you want as long as you're willing to accept whatever conciquences might come from your actions. if bit**ing about map hackers on forums floats your boat.. by all means .. go ahead!
I think the worst is the people I see in these forums complaining the using "netstat" to find D-Clone is a cheat! .. what's next .. "I don't have an internet connection .. I can't connect to battle.net ... you can?!!! not fair .. cheater!!!"

whatever..

I checked this forum yesterday morning...and I didn't even notice this threat at all. Now it's 7 pages? Holy moly Batman!

In response to the quoted post: We can't TELL if the item we want to trade for has been gotten by illegal means (whether by duping, Maphacking, WHATEVER) and that is why is MATTERS. you see, if there WERE a way to tell whether an item is duped then 1) the dupers wouldn't do it because a lot less people would wnat those items and 2) Blizzard would delete them all if they were so easily detected

 

[Erik Balder]

1. By clicking on accept on the EULA when you try to access battle.net you are in fact agreeing that any 3rd party program used on the realms that change the game in any way is in direct violation of the EULA is cheating and subject to banning, this much is true and you can not get around this by your own opinions of cheating or "little white cheats" or whatever, 3rd party programs on the realms that affect the gameplay in any way IS cheating no matter what.

2. If you use maphack in your little group that doesn't play OR trade OR interact with anyone else on the whole of battle.net it STILL does in fact affect us, simply put you are using, and keeping alive something that is in conflict with the EULA thus making Blizzard spend time and money to find people like you and put an end to your cheating. This is also true no matter what you say, sure you can say "well they haven't found me yet" but by using the cheat you are keeping something alive that they have to put time and money into to stop when they could use it on say more servers for the realms so they run faster or to develop any new patches that come out, so yes your little group is in fact affecting legit people.

3. "These kids have an unfair advantage because they have more time then me and get better things then me" this is the stupidest thing i've ever heard, of course if someone puts more time into something they are going to get farther, and just because you don't have the time to commit to the game like they do doesn't mean you should run off and grab your little 3rd party program and "balance" things out. These kids or whoever they are commit the time to find the things whereas you do not, its like complaining when someone gets a raise at work when you are late every day and take extra long lunches. Granted kids who commit numerous hours AND use there 3rd party program to get their things are an outlier here, there is only one thing I can think of: perhaps maby they think as above "I commit all this time but still don't get anything" they are just the same as the people who are legit and think this which is a direct violation of the EULA and they should be banned for it and eventually will be.

 

[Daemonaz]

Oh, I got so owned, except there was no inconsistancy in the info. And if there's anyone who's an idiot, its one who says that there's no advantage to sites like this...then why the hell do you seek info here if it gives you no advantages in the game at all?...you're telling me that MF guides, build guides, mlvl/ilvl guides, pit guides, gives no advantages in the game?...damn the writers must feel really stupid now to have written something that noone can use.

You still don't seem to get it, do you? No matter how many times Sasja tells you. Let me say it one more time too then: There's a BIG difference between LEGIT information, and a third party program that plays the game for you. Yes you heard it right, it plays the game for you.

My stance on this whole MH issue is simple: ban everyone using it. Diablo 1 also got ruined by simple stat potion and book duping. Who doesn't remember the portal trick, but things started to get quickly worse from there. It starts innocent, but if people get away with it, the step to the next cheat, a bot, is a very small one.

 

[Daemonaz]

If they annoy you, why participate?

I've never said using maphack isn't cheating, and it is not justificiations. As said in the earlier thread, some of the features would be better off added to the game itself or maphack actually taken under the wing of Blizzard, thats just MY opinion.

And PLEASE don't come with the shortsighted "its how the game is, and therefor its perfect", if the game and blizzard was perfect, we would not be on patch 1.10, we would still be way back at the beginning of LOD, things change, new things get added...But also as said, I doubt Blizzard will do so, as they have stated that they will not make anymore major patches after 1.10.

I participate in these threads to counteract the views of you and your fellow cheaters. That's why.

The whole idea of incorperating cetain maphack feature into Diablo is ridiculous. Are you trying to say that we should all be able to see the map? What the hell is that? Do you seriously mean to imply you want to ruin the fun for everyone of us? Some people actually like to quest, have you thought about those people?

Let me give you another example. I'm playing a game, a first person shooter, and half the people on there use autoaim. Since half the people use it, it must be allowed (MH reasoning). Since it is allowed, and extremely popular, why don't we force the maker of the game to add it to the game? Is that really what you are trying to say?

Furthermore, you have realized right that this game is more than 3 years old. Blizzard made it like this, and intended it to be like this. Whether it is perfect or not is besides the whole issue. Blizzard simpy does not want to invest the time and effort to add it there, it's simple. And even if they did want to invest the resources, they simply feel the game doesn't need it.

Also, in my opininion Blizzard is only keeping Diablo alive until WoW will be released. The new patch was only meant to keep us playing, so we jump on the WoW bandwagon the moment it comes out. Why would Blizzard invest time and effort in a dying game? And that to satisfy the need of a bus load of people who are too lazy to play the game themselves.

Rest me only 1 question: IF you are too lazy to play the game yourself, why are you still playing? Isn't it time to move on? Or do all other games also fall short of your perfect ideals?

 

[Lord Chaos]

You have effectively stated:

1) Maphack is cheating (a little, white cheat)
2) Reading guides and faqs is cheating (again a small cheat)

I said it GAVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE....*I* personally do not see it as cheating...but I see it as giving much more advantage in the game, than things like viewing socket numbers, etc.

 

[Daemonaz]

I said it GAVE YOU AN ADVANTAGE....*I* personally do not see it as cheating...but I see it as giving much more advantage in the game, than things like viewing socket numbers, etc.

You are seriously out of your mind. For my part this conversation is over. You can continue to try and convince yourself.

 

[Lord Chaos]

I participate in these threads to counteract the views of you and your fellow cheaters. That's why.

The whole idea of incorperating cetain maphack feature into Diablo is ridiculous. Are you trying to say that we should all be able to see the map? What the hell is that? Do you seriously mean to imply you want to ruin the fun for everyone of us? Some people actually like to quest, have you thought about those people?

I made a maphack thread about the features I'd like to see in the game, and I specifically wrote that things like reveal map and the like should NOT be added to the game, please stop putting words in my mouth.

Let me give you another example. I'm playing a game, a first person shooter, and half the people on there use autoaim. Since half the people use it, it must be allowed (MH reasoning). Since it is allowed, and extremely popular, why don't we force the maker of the game to add it to the game? Is that really what you are trying to say?

Actually most FPS shooters that has continuous development add visual enhancements constantly, including things that were not in the game in the past.

No, autoaim is not good, especially head to head...but please tell me how viewing a socket number is going to make PvP unfair.

Furthermore, you have realized right that this game is more than 3 years old. Blizzard made it like this, and intended it to be like this.

Stop making things up...Blizzard has CHANGED this game many times, where the hell did you think 1.10 came from?...if things was like Blizzard intended them to be, why did they make new patches?...if things were how they intended it to be, why did they recently make a change to how you recieved resistscroll and soulstone?

Heck, if things are like they're intended to be, then Blizzard must condone maphack, because it is apparently a program that works just fine in Diablo 2.

Whether it is perfect or not is besides the whole issue. Blizzard simpy does not want to invest the time and effort to add it there, it's simple. And even if they did want to invest the resources, they simply feel the game doesn't need it.

I am glad you have telepathy to know what Blizzard wants, or heck what the members that left wanted.

Rest me only 1 question: IF you are too lazy to play the game yourself, why are you still playing? Isn't it time to move on? Or do all other games also fall short of your perfect ideals?

*shrugs*...alot of games fall short of my ideals, some do not...I happen to play Diablo 2 alot more than most and without cheating.

 

[Lord Chaos]

You are seriously out of your mind. For my part this conversation is over.

LOL, yeah...of course....only a really informed person would say that knowing perfect builds, how to make a hammerdin, how to run the pit, how to MF, how everything works etc. isn't an advantage....ROFL.

Again, if it isn't an advantage in the game, why are people coming here reading it?, why are they bothering if it gives nothing?

I bet you can't answer that, but prefer to run away instead.

 

[Daemonaz]

LOL, yeah...of course....only a really informed person would say that knowing perfect builds, how to make a hammerdin, how to run the pit, how to MF, how everything works etc. isn't an advantage....ROFL.

Again, if it isn't an advantage in the game, why are people coming here reading it?, why are they bothering if it gives nothing?

I bet you can't answer that, but prefer to run away instead.

Dude, you are like a broken record. This issue keeps revolving around the same misconception because you are simply trolling. There was never any point whether it is an advantage or not. The point is and was how the information, and how the advantage was gotten. Are you still following me?

Now here comes the clue.. please pay attention because I'm going to say this for the third time in this thread, and I'm not the only one:

YOU and your fellow cheaters get the advantage by using an ILLEGAL third party program. WE and other message board readers get the information through fully LEGIT means. THAT IS THE WHOLE DIFFERENCE.

 

[Lord Chaos]

Please read the context of which it was brought up in. It wasn't about wether it was legit means or not. It was argued that it was a bad feature, even if added directly into the game, because it gave and ADVANTAGE.

Again, since you seem to have problems grasping this, 1. Maphack is cheating. 2. Maphack will most likely never go away. 3. The game is not perfect. 4. Blizzard is not perfect. 5. I can, just like anyone else, make suggestions as what would be good things to add to the game, reveal map is not one of them.

 

[sasja]

LOL, yeah...of course....only a really informed person would say that knowing perfect builds, how to make a hammerdin, how to run the pit, how to MF, how everything works etc. isn't an advantage....ROFL.

Again, if it isn't an advantage in the game, why are people coming here reading it?, why are they bothering if it gives nothing?

I bet you can't answer that, but prefer to run away instead.

This is absurd - we have pointed out the errors in this faulty piece of logic ad nauseam, and you haven't been able to come up with a single good response, prefering instead to simply repeat yourself. Now you're trying to goad us into keep feeding you, and this will be the last time I comply. Then you can troll on by yourself.

Let me remind you of the two last times you tried this line:

So does alot of other things (give an unfair advantage, ed) ...all the forums, little proggies etc. that helps calculate, help set up perfect builds

2. Hey, no more lazy than the people who, instead of finding things out themselves, go to message forums, get help from closed circles, etc...in the end its all how you view it.

My reply, still unanswered, was:

None of the game's rules are about sharing information. Some of the game's rules are about what part of the map you can see, the colour of unique, magical and socketed drops, etc. If you want to change it, I think you should be allowed - I'm all for Open Source. Just stay away from the place made for and inhabited by the people who want to play the game as it is.

 

[tl998]

Well, whatever the people on this forum think, Blizzard's official stance on maphacking is that they consider it cheating. So if you continue to use maphack, you are upsetting blizzard (in addition tot he rest of us of course). Not only do you risk a ban of your account (loss of items) and CD-key (loss of money), but you also riskgetting hacked yourself. a lot of these MH programs are trojan horses.