Guide: WS K Amazon

Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I've played this build a bit since friday, and when I hit lvl 60 I started wondering if I should go the Spirit route with the shield. I know I cannot rely on resistances from the shield, but there's +2 skills to be picked up. I would need a lot more strength though (at least 50 points distributed).
My stat distribution so far.

She's lvl 81 now, so 104 stat points availible for distribution.

I've had no items recommended except for Titan's Revenge (thank you Mr. Baal) and Razortail. She's quite the killer, with Stygian Dolls and The Counsel the only current obstacle.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Personally I don't like spirit. +2 skills aren't bad but I don't consider that worth passing up block. Sigon's shield would be a better compromise if you must have +skills on your shield.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Okay, so my lf/cs/fa zon is at level 82 and having trouble with the ancients.

Gear:
Peasant Crown, ral
Titan's Revenge, 188%
switch: wizendraw -34%
Rhyme, troll nest
Smoke, wyrmhide
rare ammy, 18 res all 19 dex 49 mana
magic gloves, +3 jav 25% plr / +3 bow 25% plr
rare ring, 3 min 85 ar 4 ll 22 lr
rare ring, 5 min 4 life 28 cr 11 fr 11 lr 29 pr 1 idr
thundergod's vigor/razortail
silkweave
resist charms in inventory

1071 life
249 mana (304 with bow)

Resists with bow switch
52 fr
58 cr
84 lr
33 pr

Lightning fury is at level 31 with Titan's Revenge, Thundergod's Vigor, and the jav gloves. Charged Strike is at 28.

Merc: holy freeze
Insight Partizan
Crown of Thieves
Duriel's Shell

I've tried this about ten times.

Basically, I spend most of my time running from them. I can tank them okay if the merc can distract one or two of them, but then I have to feed him pots. I was thinking of making him a bigger weapon so that he'll leech better. I could also life tap them if it works on them. I haven't tried Decoy, because I don't think it will help any. I think a bigger weapon on the merc is most important since he doesn't really help kill, all he is is a walking aura. Probably an Obedience for the Crushing Blow, but then I won't have a mana aura. I don't have a Guillame's Face.

The ancients are highly resistant, and usually at least one is lightning enchanted. Mawdac has been both LI and CI two or three times.
Korlic: 50 lr, 150 cr
Mawdac: 100 lr, 70 cr
Talic: 50 lr, 50 cr
I've also tried throwing the occasional Plague Javelin to stop any regen.

I managed to kill one of them once, and I promptly died since it was Fire Enchanted and I was standing right next to him. This might be overcome with some strategy. I suppose I'll have to get him down to a sliver with CS and then finish with LF.

Some changes I intend to try:
Defiance merc: holy freeze doesn't affect ancients. So I'll make him a tank. I also have an ethereal Guardian Angel; maybe I'll try that for huge defense.
Bigger weapon: I have several elite polearms, with and without sockets, some are ethereal.
Better Strategy: sliver with CS, finish with LF.

Any other ideas?

Edit: I got a Defiance Merc and put my eth GA (not upped) on him, and he has 9200 defense - exceeding the ancients' attack ratings, but he's 9 levels below them.

Edit: The chance for an ancient to hit the merc has dropped from about 80% to about 50%. The chance to hit my zon has dropped from about 91% to about 68%.

EDIT: Well, the changes I made worked. I changed the armor and the aura, and I made sure to not stand next to a dying ancient. I did not change my merc's weapon; he used an Insight Partizan. The only elite polearm I have that already has 4os is a CV, so he can't wield it for another few levels. And I'm not yet brave enough to cube my only ethereal elite polearm. I don't have a Ko, so I couldn't make Obedience without doing countess runs.

The first match in round 2 resulted in a quick death. The second try (and I scattered ~20 life potions on the ground for this one) was a success partly due to the fact that that only dual immune was fire/cold. Mawdac was a huge pain since he is lightning immune and completely ignores my merc. The first two went down in about a 30 to 60 seconds, but Mawdac took as much as 4 minutes. Oddly enough, he started to fight my merc once he was slivered, so it was easy to pick him off at the end. Also, he was lightning enchanted, so his light pulse healed me. I had about 5 healing potions left from about 30 life pots and 4 full rejuvs.

Both the zon and the merc are level 83.
 
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Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

My Fishyzon just hit Hell and is doing great so far. Lightning Fury is ridiculous. Things just... die. I admit it's pretty satisfying to click one button and watch everything on the screen go splat.

I'm just now getting a chance to use Freezing Arrow, it seems pretty decent (I lucked out and found a +3 BS Matriarchal Bow to put Melody in). The damage could be higher but it's not fully synergized yet so I'm not too concerned. My main issue with FA is the mana cost. My merc's using Insight and I have one SOJ, but my mana pool is still quite small and I tend to burn through in no time. Mana pots it is I guess, I wouldn't mind finding a better long-term solution though. I guess I could wear Silkweave and Frostburn and see if that helps.

The other main problem I foresee is resistances. It's not a big issue in my questing gear (I have a Kira's waiting for me to hit 77 which will help a lot), but when I switch to MF gear to run the WSK I think it's going to be a bit of a struggle. I'll probably keep using the Kira's and try to make up as much as possible in charms. Just a bit of a bummer since that means I can't wear Shako. Oh well. :)

Anyway, thanks for the great guide Nightfish, very helpful. :thumbup:
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

My Fishyzon recently hit hell too. Her gear...sucks...However, I'm using a ravenfrost, and a bahamut's ring of fortune, I have about 300 mana, and it seems enough actually. If I were you, I'd get some mana charms, or some +mana on equip, with that SoJ it should help alot.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

How about putting on some Crushing Blow items for the Ancients? Goblin Toe, Guillaume's, maybe crushing blow weapon on switch instead of bow? I haven't gotten my WK zon there yet but it's one thing I'm considering.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Pijus said:
My Fishyzon recently hit hell too. Her gear...sucks...However, I'm using a ravenfrost, and a bahamut's ring of fortune, I have about 300 mana, and it seems enough actually. If I were you, I'd get some mana charms, or some +mana on equip, with that SoJ it should help alot.
Click to expand...

Good to know that 300 is a workable amount, I can probably reach that fairly easily by adding in some charms and swapping in some different jewelry. Thanks. :)


 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Caly: What kind of armor are you using? Smoke helps enormously with its +50@. Ideally you could gamble two rare rings with +11@ and +~80 mana. Mana charms are probably the best way to go for now. My zon uses silkweaves and has 300 mana with her bow switch. FA costs a lot to cast and takes 3-6 shots to kill, so 5 mana per kill isn't a whole lot when it takes ~50 mana to get a kill. She still has to drink a blue pot from time to time, but she never runs completely out of mana. I use Wizendraw since it adds about 50 mana and gives -(20-35)% enemy cold resist. I think that might help more than 6 more levels - especially against enemies with some cold resist - but I'll have to do the calculations to be sure.

EDIT: If you only have a few other +skills (eg shako), then the +6 bow skills is slightly better - if the enemy has no cold resist. Once you get +4 skills, then Melody has an average 2 point damage benefit over Wizendraw, if the enemy has no cold resist. Once you have +5 skills, Wizendraw is better. Calculations done with my bow, 34%.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

SnickerSnack said:
Wizendraw gives -(20-35)% enemy cold resist. I think that might help more than 6 more levels - especially against enemies with some cold resist - but I'll have to do the calculations to be sure.
Click to expand...

The calcs have already been done elsewhere, basically it is 35% Wizendraw / +6 Bow when there are cold-resist enemies, otherwise (no cold resist enemies) +6 Bow trumps the Wizen. 35% Wizen is still great and reasonably cheap though, sadly I've found like 8 Wizen and all were 29% or below.. :no:



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Swordslash said:
How about putting on some Crushing Blow items for the Ancients? Goblin Toe, Guillaume's, maybe crushing blow weapon on switch instead of bow? I haven't gotten my WK zon there yet but it's one thing I'm considering.
Click to expand...

Hey, I completely overlooked your post. It may work, but I was able to beat them with a tougher merc and better strategy.

On your last post: That's true if you don't have any other +skills. But since this is a caster, we want as many +skills as possible, so if you have at least +4 from other gear, then Wizen wins, even if the enemy has no cold resist.


 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

SnickerSnack:

Thanks for your comments. Right now I am using Vipermagi. I completely forgot about Smoke! I hate to lose the +1 skill from Vipermagi but I would gain some FHR and energy so it wouldn't be too bad of a tradeoff I guess. At any rate it's something to consider. :scratchchin:

I have a -34% Wizendraw in a stash somewhere, and since I have +6 to bow skills right now it sounds like it might be better damage-wise. Plus it has the extra mana. I'll probably switch back to Melody when I start doing WSK runs though since I'll have considerably fewer +skills in my MF gear. And I admit part of me really wants to use the Melody bow because I was just so happy to find the perfect base item for it. Silly, I know. :whistling:

Edited: Huh, I actually have a -35% Wizendraw. o.O
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

SnickerSnack said:
(Melody=better) is true if you don't have any other +skills. But since this is a caster, we want as many +skills as possible, so if you have at least +4 from other gear, then Wizen wins, even if the enemy has no cold resist.
Click to expand...

From page 20 of this thread (slightly edited)

Code: 
synergized lvl28 FA: 1655 average damage.

lvl28 FA with perf wizendraw:
0% base enemy resist: effectively 2234
50% base enemy resist: effectively 2813.5 (1407 after resistance)

lvl34 FA (+6 bow): 2145 average damage. [B]Also 11.1%-12.5% faster[/B]
(depending on IAS levels) so effectively 2383-2413.

So even with +8 (and possibly more) skills on your non-bow equipment & charms, Melody still wins against 0% CR enemies. Remember that Matriarchal Bow is faster than a Long Battle Bow, even a Shaeled one, so its damage is pumped through speed as well as the +6 skills. This makes it even harder for Wizendraw to win. However, I still think 35% Wizendraw is cool (normal unique in the endgame) as well as clearly better against something like a 50% CR enemy. You'll probably kill the non LI enemies with LF, so really the question is how many LI+CR enemies you are likely to face, and also which bow is easier for you to get a hold of.



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

I looked this up at a weapon speed calc...

Wizendraw with 60 ias (20 on the weapon+20 shael+20 ias gloves) gets you 10 frame firing speed. Mat bow with 40 ias (20 on the weapon+20 ias gloves) get you 10 frame speed aswell.

Gloams in the wsk have 33 cold resist. Finger mages have 25 cold resist. Bat demons have 33 cold resist aswell. Scarab demons have 0 cold resist (monster info is from AS).
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Pijus said:
Wizendraw with 60 ias (20 on the weapon+20 shael+20 ias gloves) gets you 10 frame firing speed. Mat bow with 40 ias (20 on the weapon+20 ias gloves) get you 10 frame speed aswell.
Click to expand...

That particular IAS seems tailored to the advantage of the Wizendraw. Add 2% more IAS and the Mat Bow would hit a new breakpoint, whereas it would take the Wizendraw 29% more to catch up again. Not that you can add only 2% IAS, but it still gives more options. It's equipment dependant, but a majority of setups would have a faster Melody than Wizendraw. Personally, I like to hit the 52% breakpoint for Titans/LF (which is the WK zon's main attack anyway.) That means 55% IAS which isn't on the bow, which could mean 75% IAS WITH the bow, exactly hitting the 75% 8-frame breakpoint for the Mat bow. That's what I'll be aiming for with my WK zon. Wizendraw is definitely cool, but I dunno.

Your CR% monster listings are interesting though. I'd probably try to hit 90% IAS if I used Wizendraw... guess that's 20 gloves, 20 Highlords (or Andariels I guess), and 2 IAS jewels. Or just go all out and hit 90% for LF as well...



 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Swordslash said:
Remember that Matriarchal Bow is faster than a Long Battle Bow, even a Shaeled one, so its damage is pumped through speed as well as the +6 skills.
Click to expand...

Yup, I started thinking that after posting. I remembered that I hadn't bothered with attack rates. However, the attack speed calculator at indiablo.de is showing a matriarcal bow with Melody (20% ias) as having the same frame rate is a Wizendraw with a shael (40% ias), unless Freezing Arrow is handled differently from normal attack. I looked around the Amazon forum to see if there were different ias breakpoints for the bow skills, but I couldn't find any.

A matriarchal bow will be better at some ias levels, but for most, they're the same. Since I'm trying to stack mf and +skills, wizen is better for me.

I use two normal uniques, Wizendraw and Tarnhelm (ptopaz). I was going to triple topaz a diadem, but I remembered that the tarn is better. I'll probably up it to a sallet.


 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Is upgrading eth titans worth it for this build? I'm not too familiar with how LF and CS deals damage.

Another question, has anyone tried using one of the expensive runewords like Ice and Faith? I'm guessing those would be overkill.

Right now I've got 181 mf (skullders w/ptopaz, 38% war travs, 36% gheeds)

Kiras 69%
Eth titans
Skullders (ptopaz)
Stormshield (pdiamond)
Razortail
2jav/20ias gloves
War Travs
2 SoJs (looking for one with mana leech, if not dual leech)

For people running with Shako instead of Kiras, I'm guessing the inventory is filled with +res charms? I might just punch a hole in the Kiras and put a ptopaz in it to break 200 instead of putting in 2 Um's in a Shako/Skullders.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Comparison of 40% IAS Long Battle Bow and 20% IAS Matriarchal Bow:

Code: 
Non-bow IAS	LBB+40	MB+20	MB dps Boost
--------------------------------------------
0		11	11	-
5		11	10	10%
10		11	10	10%
15		11	10	10%
20		10	10	-
25		10	9	11%
30		10	9	11%
35		10	9	11%
40		10	9	11%
45		10	9	11%
50		9	9	-
55		9	8	12.5%
60		9	8	12.5%
65		9	8	12.5%
70		9	8	12.5%
75		9	8	12.5%
80		9	8	12.5%
85		9	8	12.5%
90		9	8	12.5%
95		9	8	12.5%
100		9	8	12.5%
105		9	8	12.5%
110		8	8	-
115		8	8	-
120		8	8	-
125		8	7	14.3%
130		8	7	14.3%
135		8	7	14.3%
140		8	7	14.3%
145		8	7	14.3%
150		8	7	14.3%
155		8	7	14.3%
160		8	7	14.3%
165		8	7	14.3%

Only at key points do they have the same firing rate, as shown, otherwise Mat Bow gets a 10% dps boost, minimum. "dps Boost" would multiply with the Mat Bow's elemental cold damage per shot. I've ignored the difference in physical damage. Note that the WSK zon, being a magic finder, may well be using a Goldwrap which has +10% IAS. In that case, you probably would not hit any of the key points where they have the same speed.

That said, I still think Wizendraw is pretty cool, and also has the advantage of much lower dex requirements, even upped to Crusader Bow for those so inclined.
 
Re: Guide: WS K Amazon

Thats a nice table Swordslash.

It convinced me to use melody on my zon, but she doesn't have enough dex for a mat bow:whistling:

I guess it's stag/ashwood bow for me:nod:
 
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