Ender's Mafia Game

[pharphis]

Can you read through yesterday's interactions again with the benefit of Jason and FoE's claims? When I did, I found their combined claims convincing enough to look elsewhere. I expected the mafia to kill Jason last night since with the mason's no longer crosstalking at night, it seems most likely anything he hears would be something they said (and I'd very much like to know what Jason heard last night). Perhaps they were afraid our doctor would find his story believable enough to put the save on and thus went after BipolarChemist.

As far as I can recall, Bipolar wasn't too terribly involved in the game. May have just been a target to knock down that wouldn't implicate anyone. The mod story does say "has died" instead of "was killed" so I'm going to go back and see what the first two stories said before I read too much into that.

Anyway @Phillinnicus, I'd like to see your in depth thoughts about why you don't believe the role claims.

I should say "has died" every night, so as not to reveal deaths such as those related to elite body guards or bombs.

If I have said something other than "has died" then don't bother looking into it, has it doesn't have any implication as to what has happened. Just mod being inconsistent and forgetful.

 

[flubbucket1]

Still waiting for a response from Flubbucket . . . currently very high on my suspicion list for making baseless accusations and then hiding.

Baseless??You seems overly sensitive to a simple logic statement. We get more information from lynching the target than the one making the claim....you should know this Mr. Hidey Lurkenstein.

 

[Valhauros]

I should say "has died" every night, so as not to reveal deaths such as those related to [Highlight]elite body guards[/Highlight] or bombs.

I don't think that info should have be shared, it gives mafia a slight edge.

 

[Zokar1]

Bravo, sir! A masterpiece of beauracratic obfuscation!
Vote: Moar/FredOfEric


patently BS, but a great read.

onder: still think it's BS? If so, why?

 

[Valhauros]

Anyway, I'm going to go with my second suspect after Korial died, will explain tomorrow, it's 3:18 am here and I need to sleep.

Vote: Pyrotechnician.

 

[pharphis]

I don't think that info should have be shared, it gives mafia a slight edge.

i wasn't implying that role or bombs or anything are in the game, and nothing I say should ever be interpreted that way.

Those were just 2 easy to understand roles I thought I could mention to illustrate my point.

 

[Drixx]

Today's posts seal it for me. Vote: Valhauros

 

[Zokar1]

Today's posts seal it for me. Vote: Valhauros

onder: onder: already? what specifically rubbed you the wrong way?

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Sorry I missed most of the last day phase, went to visit my parents and that pretty much shot the rest of it. That being said, I probably won't be able to post most of tomorrow (actual time) so I'm doing it now.

Then you are not thinking very clearly. Jason Maher already outted himself with a semi-claim of the town investigator role. I merely want him to give us a full claim that he can't back out of later. Right now we have a vague claim. I am nearly sure that moar will flip scum, but that won't really confirm that Jason is a townie.

If he's outed already, and he outed himself, the best interests of the town is for him to fully role claim and give up as much info as he has that will help us. If he's really the town investigator, then he's probably not long for this game, wouldn't you agree? Why should he go to his grave with things he could have told us, which could help us, unsaid?

I was and am thinking very clearly. The way you stated your original post didn't even have the most likely possibility as him being some kind of investigative role, it was trying to throw doubt at his claim from the bat and the way you stated a request for a full claim did not sound like it had any town intentions in the slightest. Do I believe he should have revealed the rest before days end? Of course, but if its one thing mafia do not like, its not knowing something, and you expressed that greatly in your post.

There are way too many walls of text to start quoting everyone. My perspective is that it is indeed safer to lynch Moar than Jason due to the possibility of the later being an asset to us, but I'm worried of how fast the train is moving considering Moar hasn't posted in this phase so far and there is still an entire day ahead. Don't get me wrong... I'm all in for lynching Moar and finally setting the score, but still...

Expressing doubt about lynching Moar placing the doubt due to a "fast moving train". Your worry and later post have been noted.

I have to drop out of this game. I haven't read the thread and I am too drained emotionally to do it. I can't deal with a mind game with what's going on in RL. Really sorry everybody.

Very sorry to hear that Moar, best wishes for your friend in this difficult time.

OK, not an easy situation to be thrown into.

FYI, here's what I know about Ender's Game:
tl;dr: military mind-rapes a young boy into a callous space tactician who unwittingly commits xenocide.

I've been following the game on and off for the last couple of days, while mainly being drunk. I've read up on the last couple of pages, but going through everything thoroughly cannot be done before next day-phase (and I'm not to optimistic about being alive at that point).

Role claim: I am Theresa Wiggin, Ender's mother. Mason.
My partner was BA who was John Paul Wiggin, Ender's father.

We both had/have powers - we were both Bombs. His bomb would only go off, if he was targetted for a night kill (and only kill the killer), while mine will only go off in case of a lynch, in which case the locking voter, not the last voter, will die.

I have little to no proof of this, except that I obviously suspect that it is the reason for the two NKs last night.

As to Jason's claim. I'm relatively certain, that he is not a sheriff and I have no clue why anybody would say so because of what he posted, unless they are deliberately trying to cause confusion. If he was a sheriff he would've just said that he had gotten a guilty result. I debated for a while whether or not I should share my theory of his actual role, but came to the conclusion that it is obvious enough that at least one player on the scum team will have caught it.

I am convinced Jason is some sort of eavesdropper - that is he gets to see a random (or targets a player) post of nighttalk each night. His reasons for outing me was because he had heard someone (that he claims is scum) talk about someone who read the thread while on the bus, expressing regretting voting for korial because of the whole "framing" discussion.

I (or rather Moar) did post such a thing last night, and I see why it could be misleading. I'm not allowed to post quotes from the night talk QT (which I sadly didn't even get to participate in), but the point of it was, seemingly, that she did like the framing discussion as, taken from another post, it promoted discussion and had given her reasons to suspect several people. Hence, she helped lock a townie that had caused what she (and partly BA) thought to be the absolutely most important discussion going on.

For completeness sake, their two main suspects were SI and Sath. Other than this, much meaningfull discussion didn't happen. Moar suggested outing BA as a power role to get him targeted for an NK but BA disagreed.

I'm not by any means positive about surviving, but I have now shared what I know. I will get back to reading and answer any questions you might have.

This is one artfully crafted post, but its complete and utter bull****. Sorry Fred, but your not convincing me in the slightest. Too much convenience, using minor characters since they are unlikely to be used, and throwing in bomb abilities just for kicks is just to perfect to be true, and it definitely isn't.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Unvote: Moar / Fred.

For the time being, no need to reach a the minimum lynch nor a lock, still 20 hours to go.

As stated before the previous post and this one have been noted, such a sudden urge to unvote after freds post does not sit well with me.

I wish Jason had answered my question before this came out, but I concur with this. Jason COULD NOT be a cop because of the equivocation between Zokar and Moar. The "slam dunk" stuff Jason obtained are not consistent with a cop investigation but are consistent with an eavesdropper.

The rest of your claim.... that'll take some thinking about.

I suppose that's the best answer I'm going to get.



That's the most interesting vote/post I saw because of the bolded part.

Unvote: Laarz
Vote: Valhauros

I'm still thinking about Moar/FoE. Some of the votes have that "ohhhh, a cop got a guilty verdict on someone else, hop on the train while calling the cop suspicious so he gets it next day" feeling. Because of that, gut feeling says Moar/FoE is innocent but I'll take another read through.

I'm not sure if FoE is locked or not. I haven't counted votes. At any rate, I WON'T be voting FoE. I think the only way FoE is scum is if both he and Jason are in cahoots in this charade yet I don't sense any duplicity on either part. Jason in particular posted things that were too open, honest and breadcrumingly raw to be part of such a choreographed incident.

I likely won't have a chance to post again today. I like my vote where it is.

I'm disappointed in you Goryani. Laarz may have made a comment about you channeling Ankeli before, but if you are, you must have gotten his broken scumdar as well.

FoE's post didn't convince me at all, it reeks of convenience.
Ender's parents' roles in the book are very, very minimal. I don't see why pharph would include them in the game at all, I wouldn't even classify them as main characters, they're more supporting characters.
And them both being bombs is a little far-fetched, don't you think? I wouldn't even associate that role with them if they were included in the game. Maybe vanilla townies, that's it. Again, they're not very important.

As for Jason still not claiming his role and giving all the information he has, that doesn't sit right with me. I see no reason for him to withhold information at this point.

It just makes sense to build a game that way. To have characters from the story coupled with roles that suit them well. I don't see why characters should be given roles not fit for them at all, but I can see how exceptions may have to be made in themed games where the story doesn't fit the mafia game style very well.

I think Dumper being mafia would make no sense at all, but it wouldn't be "broken". It would just be unintuitive and confusing for the overall game. It has to have flow, or else no one is going to know which characters may be associated with what roles if it's just a free-for-all. Same thing for the commander, but to a lesser extent because not having an ability and being on the exact opposite side (anti-town) of what is expected are quite different.

I don't think I'm too lore bound, I'm just using information from the story to make an educated statement about how I doubt the credibility of FoE's post. I'm trusting that my brother wouldn't make the game completely ridiculous with roles being randomly given to unfitting characters, but there is always the possibility. However, that possibility seems quite unlikely.

I agree with pretty much all of this. As stated above in my own thoughts, Fred's post is just too nice. As far as roles and lore and all that go affecting powers etc. I don't think I've been in a game yet where the more major characters did not have a more powerful role, obviously this probably can't be applied to all games across the board but its a more likely than not situation.

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Well, that escalated quickly. FoE has certainly read exactly what I received. Which means he is either a Mason as claimed, Scum, or a Cult member. He's right about my role. I am an Eavesdropper (or Listener, as the host has termed it), Town aligned, named Julian "Bean" Delphki (whoever the heck that is). What I get each night is a randomly selected snippet of conversation, with names removed. First night I received what was obviously a snippet of Mafia chat that said something along the lines of "oh stuff it, let's kill *name removed*." Which is pretty useless (aside from making me think CG was killed for meta-game reasons). Second night, well, you already know the second bit, while FoE has hinted at the first bit, which I had held back on revealing prior to this.

I definitely realise now that I didn't consider the Mason and Cult possibilities enough before jumping to the Mafia conclusion. Re-re-re-re-re-re-reading the information again, Moar thinks it would been very beneficial to keep korial alive to continue the discussion he started (all the stuff about him and Drixx being possibly framed), and regrets her vote for him on that basis.

The first part of what I received discusses the possibility of saving (from a lynch presumably) whoever Moar was talking to (BA, if FoE can be believed). There is an expression of doubt that any such attempt will meet with much success, due to pseudo-BA and another nameless person being the only people looking in any way suspicious. She then mentions a third party will be going after a fourth party, but that they (it's ambiguous whether person 3 or person 4 is meant here) won't be scummy enough to attempt to shift the heat to them from pseudo-BA.

Unvote: FoE

I need to rethink things a bit.

Don't let Fred's post make you start doubting what you found. Tell me this, and this is open to everyone. What would have been the benefit of not lynching korial and letting the framing discussion continue? It would dominate discussion, not only for that day phase, but the next day phase as well. Not much other scum hunting would progress, and who wants that to happen, oh right, mafia. She regretted lynching him because he was an easy distraction for the mafiso to latch onto. Don't want to get caught? Go with the flow of an already happening discussion the main focus of which is a townie. Talk about smooth sailing for mafia.

Ok, haven't got much time here, so this will be a short post.

To whomever asked: Moar/me and BA only had night talk - no day talk.

On the lynch, I'm not confident that we can manage to turn the lynch around, but some of you seem to be willing to. coju's case on drixx almost seems like a joke. The only reason I can see to lynch drixx is his ongoing talk about JM being a sheriff, but I believe that was an honest mistake. That being said, I disagree with him needing to do a full role claim (before I claimed that is), but reading drixx's arguments makes me believe that we simply disagree, not that he is scum.

On the other hand, I'm all for a Val lynch - mostly because of his post earlier where he speculated on lore, without us having any idea of how lore is implemented in the game, and for him suggesting that "I would make up stuff" even if I was town - scum-thinking slip?

Vote: Valhauros

Hopefully I will be back before day end to go more in depth. Still on vacation though, and I'm going out tonight so I can't promise anything.

And trying to shift votes onto someone else that made an apparently slip in order to try and shift enough votes to cause a mislynch, and it worked.

Welcome Thy! :wine:

Well, not getting lynched was nice, and I hope you haven't changed your thoughts over night.

So, Jason, anything useful to share?

My feelings regarding Val remains, and I will vote for him again if nothing else shows up.

Nope, didn't change my mind. Still voting for you.

Vote: FredofErik

 

[Pyrotechnician1]

Can you read through yesterday's interactions again with the benefit of Jason and FoE's claims? When I did, I found their combined claims convincing enough to look elsewhere. I expected the mafia to kill Jason last night since with the mason's no longer crosstalking at night, it seems most likely anything he hears would be something they said (and I'd very much like to know what Jason heard last night). Perhaps they were afraid our doctor would find his story believable enough to put the save on and thus went after BipolarChemist.

As far as I can recall, Bipolar wasn't too terribly involved in the game. May have just been a target to knock down that wouldn't implicate anyone. The mod story does say "has died" instead of "was killed" so I'm going to go back and see what the first two stories said before I read too much into that.

Anyway @Phillinnicus, I'd like to see your in depth thoughts about why you don't believe the role claims.

My bet is that mafia were too scared of a doc save to go for the obvious target, now knowing how most docs function in that they normally can't target the same person twice in a row, they will most likely take their chance tonight because having someone like Jason around for long is not a good thing for them. Bipolars lack of involvement probably made him an easy pick off as someone unlikely to be protected. There is also other power role possibilities.

Anyway, I'm going to go with my second suspect after Korial died, will explain tomorrow, it's 3:18 am here and I need to sleep.

Vote: Pyrotechnician.

Oh, I'll be waiting for your post, I'm sure it will be great.

Thats all from me for tonight. I'll try to check the thread on my phone tomorrow.

 

[Jason Maher]

Somehow I'm still alive. Thank you to the doc if you saved me (unlikely though that seems since someone did die, not to discount the possibility of more than one night killer).

Someone was very, very upset last night. I need to mull over what I received a bit before jumping to a conclusion. You'll have my thoughts sometime over the next 12 hours.

I personally am suspicious of FoE's claim because on first read he misrepresented the part of the message I hadn't shared at that point. I'll have to recheck. I did intend to re-vote for him, but got bitten by the early day end time again. The colourful language in what I received last night makes me suspectmy original conclusion was correct, but I'm going to do some more careful reading and thinking before I make that a firm conclusion.

 

[Jason Maher]

I can share this much from last night, someone has the ability to protect someone, but doing so will prevent that person using their own ability.

 

[flubbucket1]

I can share this much from last night, someone has the ability to protect someone, but doing so will prevent that person using their own ability.

Just so I'm clear...Hypothetically, I can protect you but it stops you from using your ability.



Note: I'm not having any luck getting the post count thingy to work. Is it just me or am I doing it wrong??

 

[pharphis]

^It hasn't been working for several people. I assume everyone.

Thy's in the game, maybe she can help

 

[Leopold Stotch]

Don't let Fred's post make you start doubting what you found. Tell me this, and this is open to everyone. What would have been the benefit of not lynching korial and letting the framing discussion continue? It would dominate discussion, not only for that day phase, but the next day phase as well.

I think had Korial lived, that would've been a big discussion, Fred's claim, and other things. Seriously, there was so much to ****ing read and i just skimmed it. Omg, I'm so glad I'm not wearing my contacts because I would've strained my eyes and had a headache.

 

[Phillinnicus]

Pyro has highlighted pretty much the reasons I don't believe FoE's claim, and still won't.

Even with Jason's information I still doubt the possibility of his claim being true. I just don't think that Jason has interpreted his information correctly because FoE's claim is way too convenient to be possible. Either that, or there's something deeper going on between the two that I don't see yet. But, I don't think that Jason couldn't be mafia in any situation, though. Just wouldn't make sense with Jason drawing attention to both of them for whatever reason they would do that. No sane mafia partners would do that.

Conclusion:
- FoE is mafia
- Jason is what he claims to be

 

[Zokar1]

:whistling: phili and pyro in lock step...

 

[Sathoris]

Here's why you should lynch FoE.

Apart from his claim being downright a standard mafia threat ploy it cannot be true because I can disprove it. Regardless some peoples reaction to the claim and subsequent unvotes have been very telling, so thanks for that.

FoE claims mason with a partner who just happened to have died, secondly they both are a bomb so if we kill or lynch them we die. FoE used SI's death to back up his claim.

However I am a true mason and my partner, who will be unnamed for now, can back me up if necessary. And I am/was also a 1-shot vig which I used on SI.

I did so because, as stated in the thread, I was wary of SI and wanted to use my ability before dying. Moreover knowing info about a dead guy mafia know nothing about can be valuable, as is proven with this case.

FoE used SI's death to back up his claim, which is now proven to be false because I killed SI, who was a VT btw, so whoever tried to paint SI as probable scum after his death (forgot who, on phone and not around all day, someone can check) is likely scum aswell.

FoE and his obvious buddy Val killed BA and in his hurry to fabricate a threat assumed an SK killed SI who wouldn't come forward and expose himself.

Drixx is also likely to be scum imo, playing the fierce disbeliever role. Will look thoroughly at the voting patterns and interactions tuesday when I have the time. I truly think we can catch several scum by analysing the last day.

Vote: FredOfErik