Charm Guide, Final Version (hopefully)
- Thread starter corax1
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WayWardSoul
New member
I wonder if this post means it was: :scratch:Severoth said:We need to get this stickied imho.
Top work Corax. :thumbsup:
11-20-2005, 12:04 PM #19
AlterEgo
Single Player Forum Moderator
Platinum Pal
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,526
Great work Corax Thank you very much.
I've updated the link in the SPF FAQ.
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Single Player FAQ & character guides
1.10 Septavirate Guardians: Anton Overlord, Shyla Trapper, Rusull Fire/Summoner, Cletous Hammerdin
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corax said:
I would like to add that even though ilvl 50 has the better chance to be rolled into a skiller, and you added it here as a lifeless skiller, you can get up to +30 life on an ilvl 50 gc. I dont think that +30 life is all that bad. Now as far as figuring out the chance to get a skiller with the of substance mod I dont have any idea, or let just say I am to lazy to figure it out today, maybe later.
I figured that you didnt mention it for the reason of being simple calculations, but it can be a bit discuraging the way you have it listed. There was a post some time ago by Thrugg that gave alot of the exact probabilities of rolling a skiller from any gc that was capable of being rolled into a skilller, and by the end of it all there was just a slight difference in rolling a ilvl 50 vs ilvl 99. From my personal experance of rerolling baal charms is that I now reroll any charm with ilvl 50+. Why? because I rerolled a baal charm that turned out to be a +1 traps with 44 life, about two or three days later I rerolled a charm from NM baal ilvl 75 and got a pally combat with 2x life on it. The two charms sold for about the same price. x number hrs (my little secret on the price) so that is my 2 cents worth, if you think its UNuseful forget what I have said, if you think it useful well do what you want with the info.
Indemaijinj
New member
Well, the only differences I can think of is that +1 Shapeshifting charms have become slightly less valuable as Rabies/Fireclaws hybrids were largely dependent on the charge/synergy bug.
On the other hand +1 Defensive Auras charms might have found a new use among the RWM crowd for use on Healots and Ambulancadins.
On the other hand +1 Defensive Auras charms might have found a new use among the RWM crowd for use on Healots and Ambulancadins.
Billybgame
New member
nubikoen said:
1.11 didn't change item levels for anything I'm aware of. At least not anything in this thread.
So, if I am planning on cubing charms to get skillers I shouldn't use just any grand charm from act 3 nightmare? Is it correct to say I should look at something like this guide to determine the charm's ilvl? I assume that is possible I could get a lower ilvl charm even though I am in an area where the ilvl I want could drop.
I just don't want to waste time and pgems on something that will never become a skiller.
I just don't want to waste time and pgems on something that will never become a skiller.
Sir Lister of Smeg
New member
I only now read this thread for the first time, and did notice an inaccuracy on where to find the high affix level charms. Baal and Diablo are mentioned, but Nihlatak is not, whereas his monster level in hell is 95, so he can drop charms that you can then cube to find those incredibly rare affixes, for example the hibernal small charm.
I must add that I'd advise against running him in hardcore, due to the bugged vipers and his corpse explosion. Nonetheless, with the right character it's certainly doable, although aborting when encountering vipers might be a good idea. In this case, you would, for once, collect the halls of pain waypoint, so don't use a character you plan to run Pindle with, and teleport down (being a sorc or using teleport charges). You might want to use something to prevent his corpse explosion from working, such as for example Nature's Peace, just keep in mind that that only works for monsters killed by you (not by your merc, I'm unsure how other minions count). Shattering corpses (freezing monsters) or using corpse explosion yourself, or vines/dire wolves that eat corpses will work as well. I don't know how he compares to Diablo and Baal for his chance to drop charms, but he's certainly faster to run. Looking at the treasureclasses in TreasureClassEx.txt, I think Nihlatak is a better source of charms, per pick his chance of act5 (H) good is 3/(42+nodrop), whereas Baal and Diablo both have 3/(65+nodrop). Nodrop is of course determined by the number of players and is slightly higher for Nihlatak than for the brothers. Still, at players1, it comes down to 3/61 versus 3/80 per pick. Now does Nihlatak only have 5 picks, whereas Baal and Diablo both get 7 (but a maximum of 6 drops), which can even it out more or less, it's too early in the morning to do the calculations. A shame that the drop calculator makes Atma crash under linux, I really need to make my own. At higher players settings, the balance will shift towards Nihlatak though. In addition, since charms always spawn magical, you can ignore magic find (unless you're looking for Gheed's). Of course you can run Nihlatak far faster than Diablo and Baal, since you don't need to deal with the seal bosses and the waves. Just keep in mind that he has high poison and cold resistance and is thus likely too spawn immune. On the other hand, with no damage resistance, characters providing physical damage rock against him.
So the conclusion is this: if you're looking for charms, go visit hell Nihlatak.
Edit: all my information concerns 1.11. I don't know if there are many changes, but I do know of one from 1.10, Nihlatak does now drop a key every so often, lowering his chances to drop charms slightly. If that's the only change, then in 1.10 it would be 3/(41+nodrop) in the above. And a reminder, I only checked the chance to drop from act 5 (H) good, not his chance to drop charms, which are contained in this wrapper TC containing also gems, runes (upto zod), and other jewelry in the form of jewels, rings, and amulets.
I must add that I'd advise against running him in hardcore, due to the bugged vipers and his corpse explosion. Nonetheless, with the right character it's certainly doable, although aborting when encountering vipers might be a good idea. In this case, you would, for once, collect the halls of pain waypoint, so don't use a character you plan to run Pindle with, and teleport down (being a sorc or using teleport charges). You might want to use something to prevent his corpse explosion from working, such as for example Nature's Peace, just keep in mind that that only works for monsters killed by you (not by your merc, I'm unsure how other minions count). Shattering corpses (freezing monsters) or using corpse explosion yourself, or vines/dire wolves that eat corpses will work as well. I don't know how he compares to Diablo and Baal for his chance to drop charms, but he's certainly faster to run. Looking at the treasureclasses in TreasureClassEx.txt, I think Nihlatak is a better source of charms, per pick his chance of act5 (H) good is 3/(42+nodrop), whereas Baal and Diablo both have 3/(65+nodrop). Nodrop is of course determined by the number of players and is slightly higher for Nihlatak than for the brothers. Still, at players1, it comes down to 3/61 versus 3/80 per pick. Now does Nihlatak only have 5 picks, whereas Baal and Diablo both get 7 (but a maximum of 6 drops), which can even it out more or less, it's too early in the morning to do the calculations. A shame that the drop calculator makes Atma crash under linux, I really need to make my own. At higher players settings, the balance will shift towards Nihlatak though. In addition, since charms always spawn magical, you can ignore magic find (unless you're looking for Gheed's). Of course you can run Nihlatak far faster than Diablo and Baal, since you don't need to deal with the seal bosses and the waves. Just keep in mind that he has high poison and cold resistance and is thus likely too spawn immune. On the other hand, with no damage resistance, characters providing physical damage rock against him.
So the conclusion is this: if you're looking for charms, go visit hell Nihlatak.
Edit: all my information concerns 1.11. I don't know if there are many changes, but I do know of one from 1.10, Nihlatak does now drop a key every so often, lowering his chances to drop charms slightly. If that's the only change, then in 1.10 it would be 3/(41+nodrop) in the above. And a reminder, I only checked the chance to drop from act 5 (H) good, not his chance to drop charms, which are contained in this wrapper TC containing also gems, runes (upto zod), and other jewelry in the form of jewels, rings, and amulets.
I've done around ~100 Nilly runs for exactly this purpose (getting high ilvl charms) and the Vipers there are really common (I guess it's around 1/2 - 2/3 odds that they will be there). So restarting everytime they are ther wasn't the option. I got really disgusted after those ~100 runs when I lost half a level (I used level 92 hammerdin). It might be more comfortable with sorc though... (Teleport can solve the Viper problem...) Also 50 straight damage reduction should be enough to completely nulify the bugged viper damage.
sirpoopsalot
New member
The ilvl of every item that drops by a monster is determined by the area level (alvl), and doesn't vary (*slight exception for champions and uniques - explained below*). So if you're in the Great Marsh (alvl = 50) any item that drops there will have a minimum ilvl of 50.
In the case of Act3 NM, I think the Spider Forest is actually area level 49, and therefore it's not going to drop a skiller-capable charm. However, any grand-charm in the Great Marsh and/or Flayer Jungle will always have the chance to be a skiller. I think... it's been a while since I ran for re-cubing charms in NM (or read this guide)... I could be thinking of the Spider Cavern too :grin:
*Champions drop items where (ilvl = alvl +2), and random unique monsters drop items where (ilvl = alvl +3). Again, this does not vary. If my memory is correct about the Spider Forest alvl, that would mean that champion and unique monsters in all of Act3 NM are capable of dropping skillers, and the 'normal' monsters of the Spider Forest are not.
Of course, if you have ATMA you can always look at a charm to determine the ilvl and be safe in the first place.
Finally, don't set your expectations too high on rolling skillers. I've had good luck a couple of times, but I've also re-rolled ~250 PGems and gotten one skiller. I think the actual odds to re-rolling a skiller with an ilvl50 grand charm are roughly 1 skiller every ~66 PGems used.
Edit / OT: What happened to corax anyway? I haven't seen him around for a while...
Arreat_mercenary
New member
Holy Thread Resurrection!
I just want to add for Ogtob that any charm past the Great Marsh in NM is cappable of being re-rolled for an skiller, just that it won't get any good suffix, on the other hand, you can wait for hell charms to get an skiller AND a suffix, although lowering a bit your chances to roll an skiller (still, just a little bit).
And it seems there were no changes for charms in the transaction from 1.1 to 1.11
Also, no idea where Corax is..........
I just want to add for Ogtob that any charm past the Great Marsh in NM is cappable of being re-rolled for an skiller, just that it won't get any good suffix, on the other hand, you can wait for hell charms to get an skiller AND a suffix, although lowering a bit your chances to roll an skiller (still, just a little bit).
And it seems there were no changes for charms in the transaction from 1.1 to 1.11
Also, no idea where Corax is..........
Kanonfutter
Member
If I calculated correctly, the chance of dropping a charm is very much the same, .22 for Nihlatak and .23 for Diablo/Baal. That is assuming 7 drops for the latter, so Nihlatak must be the better source. Maybe Hrus can confirm 1/5 for dropping a charm in his 100 runs?
-Kanonfutter
Haha, few large charms, but ZERO grand and small charms... I guess I was unlucky. I also had to run at P3, killing Nilly at P5 took too much time and I got hammered by those Vipers/Succubi if they spawn in his chamber (and they mostly did).
Kanonfutter
Member
My bad. The chances are for picking from "act5 (H) good", and not specifically charms. But the fact that the chance is almost the same should still hold, if GC's drop from that category only.
-Kanonfutter
-Kanonfutter
Just to add what ATMA gives for the chances of Baal/Diablo/Nilly dropping GCs:
Edit: I'm fairly sure Hrus' numbers are right, so I took mine out
Not sure if these are actually right or not, but if they are then Nilly is obviously the best choice for getting the high level GCs for rerolling if you can kill him easily, and they do sort of match my experience of Nilly running
Edit: I'm fairly sure Hrus' numbers are right, so I took mine out
Not sure if these are actually right or not, but if they are then Nilly is obviously the best choice for getting the high level GCs for rerolling if you can kill him easily, and they do sort of match my experience of Nilly running