Charm Guide, Final Version (hopefully)

I just had another look and you get Hrus' numbers if you set the item quality to base item and my numbers if you set it to magic. I'll admit I don't really know what the difference is, I've forgotten a lot about D2 recently, so I don't know which one would be appropriate here

Edit: looking at it, ATMA allows the chance for rare charms to drop to be calculated, so looks like Hrus' numbers are definately right
 
An apology

I've been looking at the game files again, and discovered that according to those, Nihlathak is level 92, not 95 as I stated earlier. So I do hereby apologize for any inconvenience caused by my misstatement. Earlier on, I took my information on Nihlathak's level from the Arreat Summit, which is apparently not a reliable source of information. I took it over without thinking since I remembered him as being level 95. Apparently this was true in versions 1.09 and earlier. Note that this time I took my information from the game files as used by ATMA, according to which he was level 95 in 1.07, 1.08, and 1.09, and level 92 in 1.10 and 1.11.

Where does this lead with regards to charms? Well obviously he can not drop a charm with an affix of level 93 or higher, for example the hibernal small charm, nor can the charms he drops be used to reroll for such a charm. Of course if you would run him in 1.09 or earlier, the situation is different, all the more so for the lack of bugged vipers making that running much safer, there might however be differences with regards to how much damage his corpse explosion did then, I don't know, it might have been more and it might have been less.

In 1.10 and later, he ranks more or less equal with Baal's minions with regards to possible affixes on charms (equal with Lister; Ventar and Bartuc are level 93; Achmel and Colenzo are both level 88(I'm not sure, it might be only level 85/83?)) , although he drops far better than them, they have only one pick for an item, as opposed to his 5. Still, this returns Baal as the only possible source of hibernal and shocking small charms in 1.10 and later, and Diablo and Baal as sources for pestilent and flaming small charms. Small charms of craftmanship can be dropped by Baal, Diablo, Nihlatak, Lister, Ventar, and Bartuc and minions of the latter three(?).
 
Nihlathak IS lvl 95 in 1.10/1.11, +3 bonus for being superunique does apply to his mlvl.

(This was the best item from my 100 runs from him:
Stone Crusher
Legendary Mallet
One-Hand Damage: 190 to 231
Durability: 57 of 65
Required Strength: 189
Required Level: 68
Mace Class - Slow Attack Speed
Unidentified
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 95
Fingerprint: 0xc5b2c873
+28 to Strength
+280% Enhanced Damage
Adds +14 Damage
-25% Target Defense
-100 to Monster Defense Per Hit
150% Damage to Undead
40% Chance of Crushing Blow
)

All Baal minions (superuniques and their minions) are mlvl 88 in 1.10/1.11
 
Hrus said:
Nihlathak IS lvl 95 in 1.10/1.11, +3 bonus for being superunique does apply to his mlvl.

(This was the best item from my 100 runs from him:
Stone Crusher
Legendary Mallet
One-Hand Damage: 190 to 231
Durability: 57 of 65
Required Strength: 189
Required Level: 68
Mace Class - Slow Attack Speed
Unidentified
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 95
Fingerprint: 0xc5b2c873
+28 to Strength
+280% Enhanced Damage
Adds +14 Damage
-25% Target Defense
-100 to Monster Defense Per Hit
150% Damage to Undead
40% Chance of Crushing Blow
)

All Baal minions (superuniques and their minions) are mlvl 88 in 1.10/1.11
Click to expand...

That is a nice find.

So now I should apologize for apologizing, which I do herewith. Anyway, how does it all connect to the following?

How come all Baal's minions and their minions are level 88? I know the area is 85, but according to MonStats.txt the base levels for the last three packs are higher (92/93). I thought the monster level could only be upgraded according to area level, not downgraded. Nihlathak for example also has a base level of 92, whereas he's in an area of level 84 (iirc). As is obvious from your find, his level is not downgraded, but even upgraded. Since both Nihlathak and Baal's minions count as superuniques, I'd expect things to work out the same way.



 
AFAIK monsters with atribute boss=1 in MonStats.txt has not ilvl applied according to area level (in NM and Hell) like other monsters. Superuniques listed in MonStats.txt with boss=1 then gets additional +3 bonus for being superunique (unlike act bosses). That's why most superuiques have mlvl=alvl+3, but Nihlathak gets mlvl=Mlvl(from MonStats.txt)+3.
 
I'm sorry to ressurect this quite old thread with a few questions but I felt that some things should be brought up since it is listed among the stickied guides.

The first issue I found was that the listed resistances in this guide are higher than they are on the Arreat Summit. Example a Ruby prefix would grant 13-15% here while according to the Arreat Summit it would give only 10-11% for a small charm. Also it seems that there's an error in the small charm fire resist, listing Crimson as the highest one rather than the lowest.

Similarly the levels listed at the arreat summit are different than those in this guide, now I'm not sure what the figures at the arreat summit are supposed to be as its not very well explained but they're not the same as this guide shows.
For example: "Ruby Resist Fire +10-11% Small Charms(40)" at the arreat summit
while "Ruby: Fire Resist +(13-15)%, ilvl 42" is what the guide claims.

Although I guess that 40 at the AS might be a different number and the 42 is what I really should care for this would have me asking then what are the numbers the AS are giving out?

These oddities are pretty much consistent throughout different ilevels (if that is what the AS are giving out) but also different damage/resist.. effect figures.
Now perhaps if the guide is at fault here and I should trust the AS rather and it can be chalked up to outdated information in this thread then perhaps it would be wise to take it out of the sticky guide list, or atleast mark it as obsolete.
However it is a very useful guide, if only the numbers were current and the author does have my thanks for the effort put into it.
I'd just like to know if its still usable or if I need to go find the right numbers on my own on the Areat Summit instead.

Thank you for reading.
 
The numbers may be off slightly, but the charms listed as desirable in this guide still are desirable as of today.

Essentially, people still want:

Small charms: some combo of +max dmg/ar, life, mana, resists, and FHR
Large charms are largely unused.
Grand charms: +skills with/without life (some skillers being worth more then others depending on popularity, the guide's rankings still hold true pretty much). Resist all and +max dmg/ar are less in demand but still worth keeping.
 
You're right about the crimson/ruby prefix being mixed up on small charms, but I think you're looking at the info for Large Charms on the resistance values ("13-15%, lvl42") - and then comparing that to the AS' info for small charms - try looking in the first post for info on SC prefixes.


AFAIK, the numbers are quite accurate in this guide, as well as on AS. As always when looking for "facts" on the internet, don't expect everything to be 100% accurate. :wink3:

I think the guide's points about "value" are still very valid though.
 
sirpoopsalot said:
You're right about the crimson/ruby prefix being mixed up on small charms, but I think you're looking at the info for Large Charms on the resistance values ("13-15%, lvl42") - and then comparing that to the AS' info for small charms - try looking in the first post for info on SC prefixes.


AFAIK, the numbers are quite accurate in this guide, as well as on AS. As always when looking for "facts" on the internet, don't expect everything to be 100% accurate. :wink3:

I think the guide's points about "value" are still very valid though.
Click to expand...

My, how embarrassing and then I even tried to make real sure I wasn't talking stupid. But it seems you're right.
That just leaves one question still, the ilvl listings which, unless my eyes decieve me once again still is different. I am trying to get myself shimmering small charms and according to the guide the ilvl for those would be 47 while AS states 33, or 10-11% resist ones which goes at ilvl 54 here but a mere 40 at AS.
I'm sure you can understand that finding the ultimate ilvl to look at would be preferable to exclude excessive prefixes and suffixes when looking for something quite specific.
As I touched upon in the first post this may still not be accurate and the figures at the AS is actually something else entiraly. This I would like to have confirmed if there is anyone out there who knows, thank you to everyone who've responded so far.


 
I think that the levels used at the AS are affix levels. It would seem that the numbers in the guide are character level requirements, which are 75% of the highest affix level spawned on an item. (54 * 0.75 = 40.5)

EDIT: I managed to stumble upon an affix-related thread in statistics just in time. Apparantly that 75% "rule" the AS talks about doesn't exist, although it still appears to be a somewhat decent approximation of character level requirements for most affixes. More info here.
 
Last edited:
I read the majority of this thread, and read virtually all the information I need from the original post. I have two questions:
1) Which monsters drop the highest charms? Are Hell Baal and Hell Pindleskin the same?
2) Does it matter what level character I use to cube the charms? If so, in what way?

Thank you,
Victor Ly
*mastavic
 
1)baal thak (diablo?) can drop charms that can spawn ALL mods even the vita 40-45 on GCs. pindle skin cant.
2)nope only the itemlevel of the charm matters
 
omg ty 4 this
 
hi,
I have a question for you,
i've find SC Antrax(+50 Poison Damage Over 6 Seconds) Ilvl58, i cubed but the new pref/suff of the charm was Life(+10 vita) Ilvl1.....why?if i cube a SC Ilvl58 my new SC is not Ilvl58?
Thanks and sry for my english
 
Narsete said:
hi,
I have a question for you,
i've find SC Antrax(+50 Poison Damage Over 6 Seconds) Ilvl58, i cubed but the new pref/suff of the charm was Life(+10 vita) Ilvl1.....why?if i cube a SC Ilvl58 my new SC is not Ilvl58?
Thanks and sry for my english
Click to expand...
The ilvl of the charm determines the possible affixes. You may get a high affix level one or not. That is, you might have a small charm dropped from Baal (ilvl 99) which is "Stout Small Charm (+1 Defence)" but when you reroll it, it chooses from all of the available affixes, and a reroll may turn up a high quality charm. But a "Stout Small Charm (+1 Def)" dropped by a normal quill rat, when rerolled, will always have low affixes. You can't see the ilvl directly- in Single Player, you can use ATMA or GoMule to see it, and on the realms you just have to remember where it came from to know what it's ilvl probably is.

And welcome to the forums!



 
Narsete said:
hi,
I have a question for you,
i've find SC Antrax(+50 Poison Damage Over 6 Seconds) Ilvl58, i cubed but the new pref/suff of the charm was Life(+10 vita) Ilvl1.....why?if i cube a SC Ilvl58 my new SC is not Ilvl58?
Thanks and sry for my english
Click to expand...

I think you are confusing item level (ilvl) with required level (rlvl). If you reroll a charm with the 3-PGem recipe, the item level does not change. However, depending upon the mods (also known as affixes) that are selected, the required level will likely change.

As purplelocust explained, the required level is determined by the specific affix on the charm, and the selected affixes have levels of their own.



 
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