Blade Fury Analysis

[kavlor]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Another alternative might be a high damage Fool's claw, combined with a Visionary (+1-99%AR) helm/circlet, but I haven't tried this yet.

I got both so Id be interested in results(43 Str,19 Dex that should add some to damage right?) ,I need to rebuild my Bladesin.

 

[renegademaster]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

>All variable effects on the weapons (specifically damage)
>were set at maximum, and in the case of runewords a >further +15%ed was added for the superior base weapon

I know this is a pain, but shouldnt you use Average damage and not Maximum damage to make these calculations?

 

[Ceramic Weasel]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I know this is a pain, but shouldnt you use Average damage and not Maximum damage to make these calculations?

I thought about this, but it has it's problems.

Firstly, it's much easier to get max damage dupewords than max damage on difficult-to-find uniques, since you can just Hel and remake. In fact, I know several people who burn dozens of HRs remaking the same runeword in the same superior base weapon until it gets a high damage roll (even I've done this a few times).

Second, I didn't want any ambiguity about the results because such-and-such a weapon has a much higher maximum and would therefore be better than the maximum of another weapon, etc. To be honest I'm regretting posting the list as it is.

Now that I've confirmed the damage equation, it's much easier to make comparisons with that.

 

[Reelix]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

2 things

1.) You only specified 1 ring - 2 of those then?

2.) What armor? I was thinking Jeweler's Archon Plate of Something...

 

[claniraq]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Hah. Interestingly, I was the one who penned that update for the arreat summit that you mention. I'm currently using a Bladesin on east/ladder, using the following setup from a guide I read:

Ethereal Chaos Suwayyah
Fortitude Armor (enigma switch)
Phoenix Monarch
Guillaimes, Cham'd
Angelics rings / ammy
Trang's Gloves
Arachnid Mesh
Gore Riders
9x Trap Skillers
Torch/Anni/Cta

I'm not sure how chaos stacks up vs fury; its 33% DS against 40% more overall weapon damage & 400 magic damage.

I've been using it strictly as a PvP char; I've found I can 1 or 2 hit many characters, killing even good hammerdins in 3-4 hits often. Personally I opted for a build that emphasized the damage on Blade Sentinel as well as Blade Fury, maxing that out too (its nice for town guard).


Another neat bonus from all of our meddling with this build is that Bladesins also make an extremely potent VLLD character, being able to pull about 160 or 200 average damage per blade sentinel at levels 9 & 12, respectively. And as a vlld tiger strike might only get 700 average damage on a fully charged hit, thats a very potent amount of damage. Especially combined with psychic hammer knockback & such.

 

[kavlor]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I just went mad and LOLOed these,theyre not eth but I dont think Im going to get better anytime soon.Not sure how they compare to the 2 RWs but style points and all that jazz.

Scissors Suwayyah(upped from Scissors Katar L76 now)
270% ed
AR per lvl
MD per lvl
7% ML
13 Str
2 sockets

 

[Ceramic Weasel]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

2 things
1.) You only specified 1 ring - 2 of those then?
2.) What armor? I was thinking Jeweler's Archon Plate of Something..

This is not a Furysin guide. The equipment I listed in that demonstration was just that. A demonstration of how to get over 10k Blade Fury. I expect an actual build will use different gear. Though, for armor, Fortitude is the only thing I would consider using, ladder or not.

I've been using it strictly as a PvP char; I've found I can 1 or 2 hit many characters, killing even good hammerdins in 3-4 hits often.

You'd rarely hit high defense characters with BF, even with Angelics.

 

[stephan]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

This is pretty groundbreaking for such an old game. Thanks for the work.

 

[Ceramic Weasel]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

This is pretty groundbreaking for such an old game. Thanks for the work.

These tests have been done before, by onderduiker at the very least, so the information has been out there. I'm not sure whether anyone thought it was capable of this much damage, though. Even I was surprised when I managed to hit 10k.

 

[Ceramic Weasel]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I got both so Id be interested in results(43 Str,19 Dex that should add some to damage right?) ,I need to rebuild my Bladesin.

How's this coming along kavlor? Any opinions yet on how Fool's + Visionary works out for hit rates with no ITD?

 

[onderduiker]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I reported my test results confirming +% Enhanced Damage applied to Blade Fury's skill damage in the 'Is Blade Shield a 1 point wonder?' topic of the Amazon Basin's Assassin Room on 27 May 2008 (stephan, you actually responded to the opening post after I did so ): TitanSeal reported likewise in the 'Blade Fury Sin' topic on 17 July 2008, and also reported that Claw Mastery's +% to Attack Rating didn't apply to BF.

I'd be unpleasantly surprised if TitanSeal and I were the first and only ones to test and report this at the Amazon Basin, or if Ceramic Weasel was the first and only one to do so here: it's almost six years since v1.10 was released, and the unreliability of the character screen is infamous.

Hopefully Ceramic Weasel will be the first to popularise this knowledge here, though. :thumbup:

 

[stephan]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

I'm getting old then. I can't remember it at all.

 

[5zigen]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

This is an amazing topic.

thank you OP for noticing and testing this.

One question though, how is Off weapon +max damage calculated?

I'm looking forward to the testing of blade sentry, but I fear it still wouldn't be useful even with high levels and a pheonix shield, because of the 25 frame nextdelay.

On the other hand, it may be useful because it is more of an "aoe" skill than blade fury, so that could be balanced out. Plus I don't think it needs AR IIRC.

 

[kavlor]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

How's this coming along kavlor? Any opinions yet on how Fool's + Visionary works out for hit rates with no ITD?

Hits easy if you mean PvM even with just visionary (and no Angelics)as Ive used Last wish on occasion.

5zigen:
Blade sentinal is actually ok its even pretty good at the early levels because it can do good damage without depending on items(might be fun early ladder).In Hell in a solo game it kills very easily,small enemies go down in one.

Im amazed how well BF does in full games I think if I add Atmas Scarab into the equation it could solo full Hell games or at least some areas.

 

[Ceramic Weasel]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

One question though, how is Off weapon +max damage calculated?

According to the damage equations on Arreat Summit this should be included in the weapon half and reduced to 3/4. It's not bugged like +X on weapons and I see no reason it would crop up in the BF calculation. I haven't tested it though, so I'll add it to my to-do list.

I'm looking forward to the testing of blade sentry, but I fear it still wouldn't be useful even with high levels and a pheonix shield, because of the 25 frame nextdelay.

On the other hand, it may be useful because it is more of an "aoe" skill than blade fury, so that could be balanced out. Plus I don't think it needs AR IIRC.

I've already done some calculations for this based on onderduiker's tests. Using the same equipment as the 10k Furysin example, a level 40 Sentinel should do 6,347 damage. While I haven't tested it myself, onderduiker's tests show that it does use AR, but unlike BF, it gets the +%AR boost from CM.

Also, as you said, it has a 25 frame nextdelay, so its damage potential is further reduced. I suppose the optimal use for it would be against tightly packed groups of monsters, with a long enough path so that it takes at least 1 second to complete a circuit. I think I'd rather max out Death Sentry.

Hits easy if you mean PvM even with just visionary (and no Angelics)as Ive used Last wish on occasion.

Im amazed how well BF does in full games I think if I add Atmas Scarab into the equation it could solo full Hell games or at least some areas.

Last Wish has ITD, so that doesn't surprise me. I also find Atma's Scarab to be incredibly useful for dealing with Phys immunes. It's radius is small enough that it won't interfere with CoS very much.

 

[kavlor]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Oh yeah sorry about that just tried a random weapon and it still seems to hit ok.

Anyway I think because your damage isn't totally dependant on a weapons you could use a much wider variety just to make things a little interesting for instance Lawbringer might be a nice safety weapon especially in a party(then you could wear Maras instead of Atmas).Another weapon is CTA if you make it in a high damage eth weapon then it has dual purpose so you could have say to venom claws on the other weapon swap(bit risky making them unless you have the runes to burn).

Hmm Im going to put a list of items that might be interesting(Ill edit in more later)
Nats mark(DtD,DtU)
Shadow killer (freezes,frost nova for slow)

 

[Ceramic Weasel]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Lawbringer and CTA could be functional, but it's a shame to give up on the off-weapon +%ED from Claw Mastery.

I was looking at Natalya's Mark earlier, and it's actually a fairly interesting option. The general consensus is that +%DtD and +%DtU on weapons count as off-weapon enhancements for the purposes of damage calculations so, in theory, they should boost the damage from BF too (thanks onderduiker for pointing this out). This means, against Demons and Undead, an ethereal Nat's Mark socketed with 'Lo' would outdamage an ethereal Fury Suwayyah with +3 BF. This doesn't account for Open Wounds though.

 

[onderduiker]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Off-weapon + to Min/Maximum Damage is applied in the same way as on-weapon + to Min/Maximum Damage: it's only added to weapon damage, enhanced by off-weapon +% Enhanced Damage and subject to the weapon damage penalty (reduced to 3/4).

This earlier post summarises the results of tests on all of the Blade skills. Blade Sentinel's damage is calculated in the same way as that of BF, only with different values for the weapon damage penalty and skill damage.

Blade Sentinel requires a hit-check: + to Attack Rating, +% AR from all sources and - Monster Defense Per Hit all apply, but -% Target Defence and Ignore Target Defence do not (although both these properties do apply to Blade Fury and Shield). It also has a hidden AR bonus, equivalent to 5*level... so level 20 Blade Sentinel adds 100 (5*20) AR...

:unimpressed:

Well... every little helps, and it's added to other AR before being enhanced by +% AR.

 

[Ghoulz]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

Ha, now I know why I seemed weak for doing 6k fury dmg with my ebotd spear.

 

[maxicek]

Re: Blade Fury Analysis

...an ethereal Nat's Mark socketed with 'Lo' ...

Set items can't be ethereal. But it's an interesting weapon choice non the less.