23 Runeword Search Thread

These are the only classes that matter.

Arreat Summit said:
Body Armor = Any armor that is worn on your chest and not any type of other armor such as boots, helms, gloves, etc.

Helms = Any armor that is worn on the head, including helms, Barbarian Helms, Druid Pelts, and Circlets.

Shield = Any armor that can be used to block, including shields, Necromancer Shrunken Heads, and Paladin Shields.

Clubs = Club, Spiked Club, and Exceptional/Elite versions.

Hammers = War Hammer, Maul, Great Maul, and Exceptional/Elite versions.

Maces = Mace, Morning Star, Flail, and Exceptional/Elite versions. This does not include any other types of Maces.

Melee Weapons = Any weapon that isn't ranged such as a Sword or Hammer. A Bow or Crossbow is a ranged weapon. Sorceress Orbs are not considered Melee Weapons.

Missile Weapons = Bows and Crossbows

Weapons = Melee Weapons, Missile Weapons, Orbs

Scepters = Scepter, Grand Scepter, War Scepter, and Exceptional/Elite versions.
Click to expand...

Add to this the class specific items:
Claws
Barbarian Helms
Druid Pelts
Shrunken Heads
Orbs
Paladin Shields
Amazon Bows
Amazon Spears

And:
Axes
Swords
Polearms
Wands
Staves
Daggers

This adds up to 21 possibilities. We actually have here one class of items (mace class) divided into four "runeword item classes" - clubs, hammers, maces and sceptres. Axes and polearms are not mentioned but there are several 1.10 runewords that only work in axes/polearms. Spears are also unmentioned and we have no spear runewords as yet so this spot is taken up by zon spears (unless someone wants to test Doom for example in a war pike). Spears are counted as a seperate class of weapon by the Barbarian Masteries so should possibly also be considered as such for our purposes.

While it is true that Arreat Summit lists all Amazon class specific items on a single page bows are clearly not the same class of weapon as a spear, though it can be debated that spears and javelins are of the same class. Class in this case meaning the same as defined above. Perhaps you are getting caught up in the same word being used in two different senses. The benefits obtained from a weapon in order to make a bow more effective are wholly different to those for a spear, bows for example gain no damage bonus from strength while spears gain no damage benefit from dexterity.

I suggest that for organisational purposes (and again, the saving of runes) that whenever testing a helm, use Barb helms and Druid pelts, forget about normal helms altogether. When testing shields the same story but maybe concentrate on shrunken heads as there is already a Paladin shield runeword out there. When testing missile weapons use an Amazon bow. I still think orbs are a bit unlikely but they would be good to test those items defined above as 'weapons', who knows, an orb only word might turn up (claws could also be used for this purpose but, as with paladin shields, it is unlikely there will be another). Amazon spears would probably be the best thing to consider representative of melee weapons. Everything tested in a spear or orb, however, must still be tested in a sword, axe, polearm, sceptre etc. it's just that these should be first port of call.

It doesn't cut down the amount of testing that needs to be done by much but we are talking about millions of possibilities here and by only testing in class specific items you are literally saving tens of thousands of tests. Any possible runeword tested in a mundane helm or shield must still be tested in a class specific one so by simply ignoring the mundanes altogether the work is already cut down by a third.

EDIT: Can you not also render Malum Superesa as Prime (Supreme) Evil? IIRC malum may also be rendered calamity which is another word for destruction.
 
Has this already been noticed?

I haven't read the entire thread, so this may very well have been said already.

Has anyone else noticed the pattern of the first letters in some of the rune names spelling out words (or things like words) that have a close relation to the runeword?

For example:

Bramble is Ral Ohm Sur Eth... which spells out ROSE

Exile is Vex Ohm Ist Dol... VOID

Breath of the Dying is VHEEZE (close to Wheeze)

Chaos is FOU (French for crazy, iirc)

Eternity is ABISS (Abyss...)

etc...


Sorry if I'm stating the obvious. :-/
 
Vilhelm
yes this is known. that is why the runeword Ice, which spells Thin (Tal Hel Io Nef) as in Thin Ice, the idea was the same. so we all thought this would be one of our best bets but failed when we tested it
 
Sokar Rostau said:
This adds up to 21 possibilities. We actually have here one class of items (mace class) divided into four "runeword item classes" - clubs, hammers, maces and sceptres...
(etc)
Click to expand...

It might be useful to have a bit of an explanation of ItemTypes.txt here. This file defines each of the item type codes the game uses. These codes are 4 letters (sometimes 3) that help the game know what an item "is". The complete table is very complicated, with crossovers and multiple parent loops, but if you restrict it to just socketable items, it becomes a simple tree (which I hope I can format correctly) :

Code: 
                armo                weap
               /  |  \             /  |  \
              /   |   \           /   |   \
          shld  tors   helm    orb  miss  mele
         /  | \        / | \        / \    \________________________________
        /   |  \      /  |  \      /   \      |    |    |    |    |    |    \
    shie  head  ashd /   |   \   bow  xbow  spea swor knif  axe pole blun  h2h
                 circ  phlm  pelt |           |      _________________/     |
                                  |           |     /   |    |    |         |
                                abow        aspe   rod mace hamm club      h2h2
                                                  / | \
                                                 /  |  \
                                             scep wand staf

Every socketable base item is defined as being one of these types. Some are just groups, eg nothing is defined directly as a "blun" = Blunt Weapons. But if an item is a hamm it is also a blun and so also a mele and also a weap.

The runewords are also defined as active on one or more of these classes. For example, Ancient's Pledge is defined on shld. That means it works on all subclasses below it too, shie, head and ashd (which are normal shields, necro heads and pally shields respectively). All of the known shield runewords are defined on shld, but if they wanted they could define them only on shie, which would exclude the heads and pally shields. Exile is actually defined on "pala" which doesn't appear here. That is probably a harmless bug on Blizzard's part, it means the runeword would work in any paladin-specific item, not just shields. But, the shields are the only pally item, so it's OK (would be different for amazons, for example). They probably meant to have "ashd" there.

Helms are a little different. Regular helms are defined as "helm", which then includes the more specific circ, phlm and pelt classes. There is no special subclass for regular helms. That means as long as Blizzard stick to their traditional laziness, an runeword that is defined for helms will also be defined for circlets, pelts, and primal helms. However, the runeword file does actually have the scope to exclude up to 3 subclasses. They could define a word as "helm" but exclude "phlm" and "pelt", then it would only work in regular helms and circlets. So you can't be 100% sure, although they have never used these exclude fields before.

The "blun" subclass is the most interesting. Barbarian Mace Mastery is actually really Blunt Item Mastery, because it gives the bonus to all the items in the subclasses of blun. However, there is such a variety of items there that Blizzard does not define any runewords across the whole blun class (except a few that are defined even higher up, for mele or even all of weap). Runewords like Black (club hamm mace) or Heart of the Oak (staf mace) target specific subclasses.

Anyway, my point, and I do have one, is that there is a lot of flexibility in the runeword definition system. It is very hard to rule out large classes based on one test. Body armour (tors) is about your best bet because it has no subclasses. As are orbs, I suspect, especially since so far they have never added an orb runeword except the ones that work for all of "weap".
 
<---applauds Thrugg.

Most excellent and helpful, Thrugg. Thank you for clarifying for all the posters here.

Hopefully this will give people more ideas and direction about likelihood of new words in any particular item type, class-specific testing vs. non-class-specific testing, et cetera.
 
Sokar Rostau said:
Can you not also render Malum Superesa as Prime (Supreme) Evil? IIRC malum may also be rendered calamity which is another word for destruction.
Click to expand...
Actually, the real thing is "Malum Superest", not "Malum Superesa" as someone incorrectly stated. This clearly leaves no other possibility for "Superest" than to be a verb (it is superere, built by the addition of the prefix super- to the auxiliary ere), hence "Malum" must be the subject.
 
sorry that i cant help with the language translation. My secondary language that i am taking is japanese, and tthe only thing slightly japanese is ko. which is a letter. This forum wont let me type in japanese but ko means nothening by it slef in japanese. gomenisai that i could not be of more help
 
Not much time for a complete reply but..

Noticed a post on Battle.net were a guy mentioned having tested out up to Vex v Vex in two socket helms. Went back and the post was gone, but he alludes to it again in this Kenny sticky (which is strange in and of itself) http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=d2-general&t=900950&p=1#post900950
Later someone accuses him of doing the testing in single player with an editor so I'm not really sure what to believe. Also within this thread someone claims to have tested TIME in a war staff. And someone else claims OBLIVION works in an axe.

There is also a thread were someone is trying to get people to post their tested runewords. Problem is that people are just messing with him, so I'm not sure if any of them are real:
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?fn=d2-general&t=900932&p=1#post900932
Going to try to get him to post his results here if they are in fact legit.

Alto (and others), wands were actually my original hope (since they HAVE to be two socket), i just thought they'd be too annoying for people to obtain, so I suggested armors. If I get time, I'll update my spreadsheet to match up all two socket grids now that testing is picking up. Don't know how to update forum side though, that will take pages of posts each time.

Thrugg, thanks for the much needed clarification. Didn't know we had to consider circlets as yet another helm class, but this makes sense since they have there own special features.

I also wanted to reiterate that it is very unlikely to have a sword only and an axe only and a spear only etc. runeword. Melee and Weapon are very popular classes for runewords and I can't see them not being included in these 23.

Wathombe, I'm a graduate student studying Neuroscience at Wash U in St. Louis. But since I've actually just transfered from another graduate school where I already completed coursework, it shouldn't be too bad. As long as testing doesn't get any more furious (you guys are going at a crazy rate right now), I should be able to keep up. Oh and someone did test Thirst in an Orb -Eld-Ort.

Keep up the crazy good work
 
Shaft,

Various things:

I saw the thread about 2os tests up to Vex, too. Later in the thread, he wrote, "Oh, I didn't know it had to be on realms, this was on single player." So those are inaccurate. Don't know why the thread got deleted, though.

Someone (I think Alto, but it might have been mmaketsu) pointed out that you can buy 2os wands as easily from Drognan as you can buy 2os armors, helms, et cetera, from Charsi and that chick in Lut Gholein (Fara?). This makes wand testing much easier.

Neuroscience! Heavy. Best of luck this term; sounds tough. Hope to see your posts around when you have time, but other things certainly come first.

(I noticed the EldOrt test myself and added it to the Orb grid. Thanks, though.)

**player matchup**

I hope (no guarantees) to get on for an hour or so tonight between 10 and midnight PDT. I'll look for all of you West regulars. For my part, I'd do nm Baal runs to level my Tesladin, but if someone else wants to do rushes, forge rushes, some other runs, I'm all for that, too.
 
just an idea

anybody thought that instead of a HRATLI acronym, its a clue refering to something about him? try talking to the people in town seeing if they have anything to say about him, talk to him about all the quests and see if theres anything in that statement

another thing, you sure that was a clue and not just random ramblings? :lol:
 
If i'm reading this right, then it seems like wands or staves would be the better bet for 2 socket testing. Not really sure about frequency of words per item of course, but we don't really care at first what item the rune word has to be in, we just want to know if it works. If we test say staves, then we'll get any words for 2 socket staves, and any for 2 socket rods, and any for 2 socket blunt, and melee, and weapons. We can easily sort out exactly what items the word works with after. Also, Drognan and Akara both sell these, so they're easy to get.

Side question : h2h = claw class?
 
well my friends got on and i rushed him through nm classic. it went well but one snag. The thing where u make a hell agme after betaing d then switching to classic didnt work. The rushee still ended up in act 5 nm. We think that we are going to try and kill hell andy next time and see if that makes a difference. I also think that i am gonna have to lvl my ruhser more to be able to occomidate 6 rushers. I had some problems in nm with just one but i think i can get around some of that a little. well i did get the nm forge and that dropped a lem. Which i used to upgrade me p vipermagi and then dropped a 5/5 light facet in it. :) i love it. any way i'll try to lvl me sorc a bit more.
 
well my friends got on and i rushed him through nm classic. it went well but one snag. The thing where u make a hell agme after betaing d then switching to classic didnt work. The rushee still ended up in act 5 nm. We think that we are going to try and kill hell andy next time and see if that makes a difference.
Click to expand...

To my knowledge, if you want to end up in expansion hell mode, the earliest you have to be is in Act 4 hell (classic). That means beating the council and meph in classic and stepping through the red portal. If Andy works, that's good, but if she doesn't, it means you'll have to pass Act 3.

(I'm doing this also, though not for rune rushing,anyway I bet hell is going to be a pain for a sorc in classic, I'm considering building a hammerdin for it, since Conc is not 1/2 dmg in classic, and it's still possible to get nice (5K+ - 10K+ depending on gear) damage).
 
Dawns:

That pic is hilarious!


Two quick tests:

RalIth - kris (b/c Hratli clue mentions "blade")
ElTir - broad sword

Both gemmed.
 
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