- Feb 24, 2004
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TheGuardianXXXIII said:@ffs and other Javazon experts... I've tried a few times to do some runs w/ my javazon but she's just so bad compared to my necro (even before i found his dweb). I have to run on p1 or p3 to even clear the level without running out of javelins several times (even on p3 I still run out of both and have to TP to repair at least once or twice). I don't have griffons or Infinity or any skillers, so i know she won't be top tier, but i feel like i must be doing something wrong because her gear is not bad..
Shako (+2)
Maras (+2)
Enigma (+2)
BKWB (+1)
SoJ (+1)
Titans and Tstrokes (+4)
Lidless (+1/+5 MPK)
RazorTail or T-Gods (+3LF)
Silkweaves (MPK)
Rare gloves w/ 20IAS, lrez/frez/MF (haven't had any luck shopping/gambling some good 2-3/20's)
+13 to the java skills... MPK is plenty to keep me going on mana (once the herded pack finally dies). I feel like i have to use T-strokes or the cows take even longer to die, but i have to repair even more.. She gets frozen all the time which is just god awful, so i'm about to replace the BKWB with a Ravenfrost losing +1 skills. It feels like the only thing that's going to matter is -ELR, but maybe i'm missing something important?
Gameplay wise I basically run around herding a big pack, sometimes throwing a decoy to get them clumpier, then start spamming jav's until the cows reach me then i run away, throw 2-3 jav's, repeat for awhile until the herd is dead.
Luhkoh said:How many soft points do you have in pierce? (disclaimer: I am no javazon expert)TheGuardianXXXIII said:@ffs and other Javazon experts... I've tried a few times to do some runs w/ my javazon but she's just so bad compared to my necro (even before i found his dweb). I have to run on p1 or p3 to even clear the level without running out of javelins several times (even on p3 I still run out of both and have to TP to repair at least once or twice). I don't have griffons or Infinity or any skillers, so i know she won't be top tier, but i feel like i must be doing something wrong because her gear is not bad..
Shako (+2)
Maras (+2)
Enigma (+2)
BKWB (+1)
SoJ (+1)
Titans and Tstrokes (+4)
Lidless (+1/+5 MPK)
RazorTail or T-Gods (+3LF)
Silkweaves (MPK)
Rare gloves w/ 20IAS, lrez/frez/MF (haven't had any luck shopping/gambling some good 2-3/20's)
+13 to the java skills... MPK is plenty to keep me going on mana (once the herded pack finally dies). I feel like i have to use T-strokes or the cows take even longer to die, but i have to repair even more.. She gets frozen all the time which is just god awful, so i'm about to replace the BKWB with a Ravenfrost losing +1 skills. It feels like the only thing that's going to matter is -ELR, but maybe i'm missing something important?
Gameplay wise I basically run around herding a big pack, sometimes throwing a decoy to get them clumpier, then start spamming jav's until the cows reach me then i run away, throw 2-3 jav's, repeat for awhile until the herd is dead.
Gripphon said:You don't do anything wrong, javazon without Infinity and Griffon's AND skillers is terrible, she does less than 30% of damage compared to javazon who does have those things. You need to throw 3 spears compared to only one from properly geared javazon. Without Infinity it may be best to stick to characters like necro or blizzard sorc. Actually don't know who else can do decent running without Infinity.
ffs said:@TheGuardianXXXIII In general I'm afraid @Gripphon is right. That’s a lot of items that greatly increase damage. In fact Griffons can add 30% damage on its own. She should work if missing only one or two of those things, but it's a bit tough without any of Griffon's, Infinity or skillers..
That being said, there are a few things you can try. Surely Razortail over TGods, not even close. With TGod you would need to max Pierce which is losing a full synergy and still it hurts not having 100% Pierce. With Razor you only need lvl 9 Pierce after +skills. CNBF is also mandatory unless you want to load up on thawing potions. Don’t know if you have facets socketed but they help a lot with damage, as a rule of thumb I think of a 5/5 as about +3 skills worth of damage. You will need to throw more javelins than a Java with higher damage, so I’d go with Titans for the replenish and an extra one in inventory, despite TStroke's -ELR. Then you should aim for at least 35 IAS, maybe 55 makes sense in your case, eg with Highlord's. Finally in terms of gear, ML could be worth including if she doesn’t kill fast enough to rely on MPK.
I don’t know your gameplay exactly but herding massive groups is crucial, and I mean massive. It’s important to realise that LF damage is variable. It can be the highest damage output per attack in the game, or it can be total garbage, depending on how many monsters it is used against. Big groups help not only with Pierce exponentially increasing damage, but also LF itself releases more bolts depending on monsters in the vicinity.
There are a few gameplay vids in the 101 thread that you can check out if you haven’t. Good luck, keep her rolling!
zemaj said:Yeah, funny story... when the mods say don't post in spam threads, just report it, that's for real. In that wave of spam the other night, I made a witticism about one of the absurd thread titles, in the thread, then when the spam was cleared, I got banned as well.Luhkoh said:@zemaj what happened to your photo and post history?
It actually took some networking to get around (big thanks to @WoRG & especially @maxicek + whomever else may have been involved in the technical end ).
The fact I still have a post count and like count, etc makes me hopeful my actual posts can be recovered. My avatar, while a nice throwback, I'm not nearly as attached to...
Hutton said:@TheGuardianXXXIII
I'm doing p5 without having to repair my Titan's at all, and my gear is probably slightly worse than yours though my map is quite good. But it took me a while to get to the point of not having to repair.
I suspect you're probably not herding big enough packs, and/or using Lightning Fury too much. You should only need to throw maybe ten at the absolute most per big herd (my map gives maybe six or seven big herds with a couple smaller ones each run). Low HP stragglers can either be finished off with Charged Strike or ignored.
Ravenfrost is definitely worth it. Ain't nobody got time for being frozen. And Razortail is completely busted. That item alone was the difference between p3 and p5 for me.
I guess I could make a video of a run if you like, though I don't currently have anything installed to facilitate that!
PhineasB said:Just past 10 hours, and and likely done for dedicated running. I'm not really having fun, and those next next 10 hours would see my untwinked necro nearly to 3.2B. And the last stretch including 6+ hours without a qualifier and no other useful drops doesn't help things much. Zon might get an hour or two as breaks from Pit runs before RFL Rd 1 ends, but we'll see. Good luck to everyone who's running! Looking forward to seeing all the shiny orange rocks
Luhkoh said:I tried out bandicam just because I'd seen it on other d2 youtube videos and found it very easy to use. Love to see a video!Hutton said:@TheGuardianXXXIII
I'm doing p5 without having to repair my Titan's at all, and my gear is probably slightly worse than yours though my map is quite good. But it took me a while to get to the point of not having to repair.
I suspect you're probably not herding big enough packs, and/or using Lightning Fury too much. You should only need to throw maybe ten at the absolute most per big herd (my map gives maybe six or seven big herds with a couple smaller ones each run). Low HP stragglers can either be finished off with Charged Strike or ignored.
Ravenfrost is definitely worth it. Ain't nobody got time for being frozen. And Razortail is completely busted. That item alone was the difference between p3 and p5 for me.
I guess I could make a video of a run if you like, though I don't currently have anything installed to facilitate that!
TheGuardianXXXIII said:Thanks for the feedback @Gripphon @ffs @Hutton . Looks like i'm hoping for 2x Ber runes this RFL then I'll definitely stick to the Razortail and swap in the Ravenfrost. I only have 1 titan's, so i'll just stick w/ the Titan's + Tstrokes spare.
I'll pay more attention to my herd size, though my map has about 3-4 areas where i can just herd a super long line of cows and that's what i try to hit. I'll work more on it and review + compare the 101 videos. Though right now it mostly feels pointless compared to my necro who can TP around much quicker, aggro tons of cows w/ Amp then teleport aggressively into the middle of all of them and spam pNova until a body drops and just blow up everything without ever worrying about dying (me or merc). Zon's hit recovery is so bad that if 1 cow lands a hit on her, i better hope there's only 1 cow or i'll probably be gulping a couple slots worth of purples while trying to get away. Not to mention she can't use a merc cause he just dies unless i'm full time TP babysitting him (almost same exact gear as necro's merc). I should try running a Spirit shield for the extra +skill and 55% FHR, not to mention extra mana and FCR.
jjscud said:I remember now why I liked the run for 99. Choosing exp over drops means choosing math over the fickle whims of fate.
On a more relevant note, I'm running with similar gear (2-3 less + skills overall), though no enigma. I have to refill my titans about every 3 runs and can only manage p3 comfortably. I think I am a bit slow from the other end of the spectrum, I'm an excessive herder and probably spend more time than I should herding.
I wasn't planning to do a second set but I've had the runes for infinity for a few weeks just waiting for a base (which I have a few options for now). Maybe I'll put it together and see what a difference that alone makes.
Do you guy's use valks? I find that tossing her out in front of me keeps the pack tighter and in place, but if she's not killed off, she tends to mess up herding the next pack.
Gripphon said:Finished first set with necro on p5, 494 runs done completely and 5 abandoned at beginning/mid way due to death. Now moving on to Blova/Fissure/Hammerdin for second set.
@TheGuardianXXXIII
It's a bit pointless to compare javazon without best gear with necro. It is possible that even with best javazon gear you might not outfarm your necro. They are two very different characters to play and it entirely depends what type of playstyle suits you more. I for example with best geared javazon can't come even close to what I'm doing with necro. I'd need to do 2:43 p7 runs with her to be comparable. For someone else can be the other way around. Those two are best cow runner characters, however doesn't mean they will be close to each other in everyone's hands.
DiabloTwoinDC said:Sorry guys, but 1.07 keeps crashing on the computer that I have now. I don't think I really have any chars to be running in 1.14. So, basically I'm out for this RFL..
sir_cyclops said:@DiabloTwoinDC i assume you’ve got backups. Have you tried completely uninstalling and reinstalling d2 to a new location?
DiabloTwoinDC said:Yea, I'll get it working eventually. We'll see. Maybe in time for the other RFL rounds..sir_cyclops said:@DiabloTwoinDC i assume you’ve got backups. Have you tried completely uninstalling and reinstalling d2 to a new location?
sir_cyclops said:I’ve seen on blizzard forums them mention looking at crash logs. If you find those, id be happy to look into them. I’ve worked in software for a bit.DiabloTwoinDC said:Yea, I'll get it working eventually. We'll see. Maybe in time for the other RFL rounds..
ffs said:Agreed, you’re best off with the character you enjoy playing the most. If you’re bored you won’t be playing well. Personally I like playing both Necro and Java equally.Gripphon said:Those two are best cow runner characters, however doesn't mean they will be close to each other in everyone's hands.
To be fair though, admittedly to some extent it also depends on the gear available. For example I got lucky with crafting 2/20 amulets for Amazon and P&B Necro. They enable very strong setups, which made me enjoy playing them even more. Similarly after crafting 2/20 for Cold Sorc I ran Trav a lot more with her for some time. If I ever find an FCR amulet upgrade for Pit Zerker, I could totally see myself just playing him for a while, etc...
Gripphon said:
Blova running cows on p5 with expectedly bad music to follow it up! Map could be better, this one requires too much zig-zaging. Sorc typically kills between 350 and 400 cows, closer to 350 though until better map is found which I won't do for this RFL.
TheGuardianXXXIII said:Gripphon said:@TheGuardianXXXIII
It's a bit pointless to compare javazon without best gear with necro. It is possible that even with best javazon gear you might not outfarm your necro. They are two very different characters to play and it entirely depends what type of playstyle suits you more. I for example with best geared javazon can't come even close to what I'm doing with necro. I'd need to do 2:43 p7 runs with her to be comparable. For someone else can be the other way around. Those two are best cow runner characters, however doesn't mean they will be close to each other in everyone's hands.Good points guys. I think you're right. Honestly I'm starting to think the Javazon isn't really my cup of tea. I find the style of mostly running around herding and then always just using 1 skill to be kind of boring. The pNova necro and the Pit zerker are 2 characters i absolutely love and it's probably because they are a lot more involved. Lots of fast FCR teleporting, hotkeys/abilities, higher APM style characters.ffs said:Agreed, you’re best off with the character you enjoy playing the most. If you’re bored you won’t be playing well. Personally I like playing both Necro and Java equally.
To be fair though, admittedly to some extent it also depends on the gear available. For example I got lucky with crafting 2/20 amulets for Amazon and P&B Necro. They enable very strong setups, which made me enjoy playing them even more. Similarly after crafting 2/20 for Cold Sorc I ran Trav a lot more with her for some time. If I ever find an FCR amulet upgrade for Pit Zerker, I could totally see myself just playing him for a while, etc...
That said, i did try a few of the tips mentioned in this thread (ravenfrost, highlords, more focused herding, Spirit shield instead of Lidless) and things did go a lot smoother. I was still only doing /p3, but i didn't need to repair my titans anymore and overall the frustrations were gone (CBF was huge, don't know why i didn't do it sooner...). Despite the significant improvement, i was kinda feeling "Meh" about it, mostly because i felt like i was just "herding" more than actual killing/playing. I think i'll save the last few hours of my batch for the necro for a strong finish and work on the Java later.
Babyhell said:121 minutes left before end of first batch here. I may have hard time getting ready for second round, so i may stay at one batch - but i'm already pleased with this one and the "pre-batch" results (dropped an Ohm and a Sur before first round, it was already nice enough !).
I think i'll complete this one then go heavy CS run, hoping to drop any Kira's for merc - well i have to find/trade a Reaper's toll too, but there's still a trading possibility.
GL for the remaining of yours and for those who are much invested, GL for the second batch !
No, if you go for a third one, you're just crazy... go buy some burger if you're starved of beef !
Hutton said:The video as requested by literal ones of people:
Not a spectacular run by any stretch of the imagination- the first pull was quite awkward as Fanaticism + Cursed is a dangerous combination to deal with on Hardcore. Cursor felt a bit weird with the recording software running, I'm normally a bit less derpy...
Gear:
Delirium Tiara
Mara's
Ravenfrost
SoJ
Vipermagi (15 IAS)
Razortail
3/20 Gloves
Silkweave
Upped Titan's
Spirit
Naj's Puzzler (Switch)
Merc (Defiance):
Insight
Fortitude
Andy's (15 IAS)